| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Ubiquitous" |
| Date: |
06 Mar 2007 06:16:17 AM |
| Object: |
Do You Feel a Draft? |
"If this presidential campaign is anything like the last, John McCain's
Vietnam service will inevitably be contrasted with GOP rival Rudy
Giuliani's avoidance of a war that he opposed," opines Bill Sammon of the
Washington Examiner in a news story. Giuliani had an "occupational
deferment" in 1969, and the following year drew a favorable number in the
draft lottery, so that he was never called. Argues Sammon:
Anyone who dismisses the significance of Vietnam as
a potential issue in the 2008 campaign is forgetting
how surprisingly potent it proved in 2004, when there
was enormous interest in the military records of both
President Bush and Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts.
Four years later, with the nation still at war,
Americans likely are to again scrutinize the military
records of those who seek the job of commander in chief.
Let's step back and consider this for a moment, shall we? It's true that
there was "enormous interest" in Bush's and Kerry's military records in
2004--but mostly from Democrats and left-leaning journalists, who bought
into the notion that the Dems' nominating a "war hero" was the ticket to
the White House.
This notion, of course, turned out to be false: The Texas Air National
Guard veteran soundly defeated the self-styled Vietnam hero. Four years
earlier Bush beat Al Gore, who also served in Vietnam, albeit only as an
Army journalist. Bush's chief rival for the 2000 Republican nomination
was John McCain.
In the two preceding elections, Bill Clinton, who like Giuliani avoided
Vietnam-era military service, beat George H.W. Bush and Bob Dole, both of
whom had impressive World War II records. Among the rivals Clinton bested
for the 1992 nomination were Bob Kerrey, a genuine war hero, and Tom
Harkin, a fake one.
In the past four elections, that is, the man without overseas military
experience beat the man with it--and moreover, both of the past two
presidents defeated Vietnam war heroes to win their party's nomination.
You have to go back to 1988, when the elder Bush beat Michael Dukakis
(who served in the Army during peacetime) to find an election in which
the winner clearly had a more impressive military record than the loser.
Maybe things will be different next year, but Sammon doesn't offer any
reason to think so.
.
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| User: "Ubiquitous" |
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| Title: Do You Feel a Draft? |
04 Sep 2007 08:47:38 PM |
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Der Spiegel reports on an exhibition in a New York art gallery that "shows
what the media doesn't--shocking photos of seriously wounded Iraq veterans."
You can see some of the photos, by Nina Berman [1] and they are disturbing.
Our first reaction to hearing about this was to be put off by what seems an
exploitation of maimed servicemen in the service of anti-Iraq propaganda. Our
second reaction was to feel bad about our first reaction. After all, these are
powerful photos, and war is horrible, even when the cause is noble.
But the last paragraph of the Spiegel piece vindicated our first impulse:
Berman, for her part, found the experience of photographing the
veterans profoundly moving. "Meeting so many severely disabled
young men and women was deeply disturbing to me," she says. "I
felt complicit because they had fought in my name. And I felt the
divide of privilege because I did not have to make a similar
sacrifice."
The men she photographed did not HAVE to make such a sacrifice either. Surely
Berman knows that America has an all-volunteer military, and has for more than
a third of a century. These are men who freely chose to undertake dangerous
work in the service of their country. By patronizing them, by portraying them
as hapless victims, Berman betrays a profound disrespect for their sacrifice.
[1]: http://www.purpleheartsbook.com/
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,502869,00.html
--
The trouble with American journalism, in short, isn't that it's too skeptical,
but that it's too willing to throw skepticism to the wind when it suits the
agenda of proclaiming every war a Vietnam and every Republican president a
Nixon.
.
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| User: "David Christian" |
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| Title: Re: Do You Feel a Draft? |
06 Sep 2007 07:57:16 AM |
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There may not be nobility in death, but there can be nobility in volunteering for a
dangerous assignment and living with the consequences of that decision. After
viewing the photographs, I found them profoundly moving because I understand that
any of these individuals could have avoided this fate by simply not heeding the
call. We owe these young men and their comrades a debt a we will never be able to
fully repay.
We owe Ms. Berman a much smaller thanks for documenting these young men and their
situation. It serves to remind us of our debt. Her intent is inconsequential.
In article <WbadnWgfm7YOKUPbnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
wrote:
Der Spiegel reports on an exhibition in a New York art gallery that "shows
what the media doesn't--shocking photos of seriously wounded Iraq veterans."
You can see some of the photos, by Nina Berman [1] and they are disturbing.
Our first reaction to hearing about this was to be put off by what seems an
exploitation of maimed servicemen in the service of anti-Iraq propaganda. Our
second reaction was to feel bad about our first reaction. After all, these are
powerful photos, and war is horrible, even when the cause is noble.
But the last paragraph of the Spiegel piece vindicated our first impulse:
Berman, for her part, found the experience of photographing the
veterans profoundly moving. "Meeting so many severely disabled
young men and women was deeply disturbing to me," she says. "I
felt complicit because they had fought in my name. And I felt the
divide of privilege because I did not have to make a similar
sacrifice."
The men she photographed did not HAVE to make such a sacrifice either. Surely
Berman knows that America has an all-volunteer military, and has for more than
a third of a century. These are men who freely chose to undertake dangerous
work in the service of their country. By patronizing them, by portraying them
as hapless victims, Berman betrays a profound disrespect for their sacrifice.
[1]: http://www.purpleheartsbook.com/
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,502869,00.html
--
The trouble with American journalism, in short, isn't that it's too skeptical,
but that it's too willing to throw skepticism to the wind when it suits the
agenda of proclaiming every war a Vietnam and every Republican president a
Nixon.
.
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| User: "middle_class_warrior" |
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| Title: Re: Do You Feel a Draft? |
06 Sep 2007 08:21:33 AM |
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David Christian wrote:
There may not be nobility in death, but there can be nobility in volunteering for a
dangerous assignment and living with the consequences of that decision. After
viewing the photographs, I found them profoundly moving because I understand that
any of these individuals could have avoided this fate by simply not heeding the
call. We owe these young men and their comrades a debt a we will never be able to
fully repay.
We owe Ms. Berman a much smaller thanks for documenting these young men and their
situation. It serves to remind us of our debt. Her intent is inconsequential.
In article <WbadnWgfm7YOKUPbnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
wrote:
Der Spiegel reports on an exhibition in a New York art gallery that "shows
what the media doesn't--shocking photos of seriously wounded Iraq veterans."
You can see some of the photos, by Nina Berman [1] and they are disturbing.
Our first reaction to hearing about this was to be put off by what seems an
exploitation of maimed servicemen in the service of anti-Iraq propaganda. Our
second reaction was to feel bad about our first reaction. After all, these are
powerful photos, and war is horrible, even when the cause is noble.
But the last paragraph of the Spiegel piece vindicated our first impulse:
Berman, for her part, found the experience of photographing the
veterans profoundly moving. "Meeting so many severely disabled
young men and women was deeply disturbing to me," she says. "I
felt complicit because they had fought in my name. And I felt the
divide of privilege because I did not have to make a similar
sacrifice."
The men she photographed did not HAVE to make such a sacrifice either. Surely
Berman knows that America has an all-volunteer military, and has for more than
a third of a century. These are men who freely chose to undertake dangerous
work in the service of their country. By patronizing them, by portraying them
as hapless victims, Berman betrays a profound disrespect for their sacrifice.
[1]: http://www.purpleheartsbook.com/
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,502869,00.html
--
The trouble with American journalism, in short, isn't that it's too skeptical,
but that it's too willing to throw skepticism to the wind when it suits the
agenda of proclaiming every war a Vietnam and every Republican president a
Nixon.
I wonder how these maimed young men will feel five years from when they
try to move around without arms and legs. I wonder how they will fell
when they find out it will take years to get VA disability benefits.
Right now there is a 600,000 case backlog and only 3600 cases were
resolved last year. I wonder how they will feel when they find out that
George W. Bush wants to veto the latest VA appropriations bill.
I wonder if the writer of this post ever served in the Armed Forces?
Since he is a Republican sympathizer, it is doubtful. This probably just
another chicken hawk piece of propaganda.
.
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Do You Feel a Draft? |
07 Sep 2007 02:28:19 PM |
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On Sep 6, 9:21 am, middle_class_warrior
<middle_class_warr...@verizon.net> wrote:
David Christian wrote:
There may not be nobility in death, but there can be nobility in volunteering for a
dangerous assignment and living with the consequences of that decision. After
viewing the photographs, I found them profoundly moving because I understand that
any of these individuals could have avoided this fate by simply not heeding the
call. We owe these young men and their comrades a debt a we will never be able to
fully repay.
We owe Ms. Berman a much smaller thanks for documenting these young men and their
situation. It serves to remind us of our debt. Her intent is inconsequential.
In article <WbadnWgfm7YOKUPbnZ2dnUVZ_gGdn...@giganews.com>,
wrote:
Der Spiegel reports on an exhibition in a New York art gallery that "shows
what the media doesn't--shocking photos of seriously wounded Iraq veterans."
You can see some of the photos, by Nina Berman [1] and they are disturbing.
Our first reaction to hearing about this was to be put off by what seems an
exploitation of maimed servicemen in the service of anti-Iraq propaganda. Our
second reaction was to feel bad about our first reaction. After all, these are
powerful photos, and war is horrible, even when the cause is noble.
But the last paragraph of the Spiegel piece vindicated our first impulse:
Berman, for her part, found the experience of photographing the
veterans profoundly moving. "Meeting so many severely disabled
young men and women was deeply disturbing to me," she says. "I
felt complicit because they had fought in my name. And I felt the
divide of privilege because I did not have to make a similar
sacrifice."
The men she photographed did not HAVE to make such a sacrifice either. Surely
Berman knows that America has an all-volunteer military, and has for more than
a third of a century. These are men who freely chose to undertake dangerous
work in the service of their country. By patronizing them, by portraying them
as hapless victims, Berman betrays a profound disrespect for their sacrifice.
[1]:http://www.purpleheartsbook.com/
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,502869,00.html
--
The trouble with American journalism, in short, isn't that it's too skeptical,
but that it's too willing to throw skepticism to the wind when it suits the
agenda of proclaiming every war a Vietnam and every Republican president a
Nixon.
I wonder how these maimed young men will feel five years from when they
try to move around without arms and legs. I wonder how they will fell
when they find out it will take years to get VA disability benefits.
Right now there is a 600,000 case backlog and only 3600 cases were
resolved last year. I wonder how they will feel when they find out that
George W. Bush wants to veto the latest VA appropriations bill.
I wonder if the writer of this post ever served in the Armed Forces?
Since he is a Republican sympathizer, it is doubtful. This probably just
another chicken hawk piece of propaganda.-
"Ms. Halfaker, whose right arm and shoulder are gone, blasted away by
a rocket-propelled grenade, says she has wondered whether her child,
if she ever has one, will be able truly to love her. And then a look
of intense emotion clouds her face. Ms. Halfaker's eyes flutter,
seemingly looking at some image far, far away. Finally, after a long
pause, Mr. Gandolfini asks quietly, "What were you just thinking
about?"
And Ms. Halfaker tells him: "The reality of, will I be able to raise a
kid? I won't be able to pick up my son or daughter with two arms."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/06/arts/television/06aliv.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
.
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| User: "Paddy OShea" |
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| Title: Re: Do You Feel a Draft? |
06 Mar 2007 06:25:22 AM |
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On Mar 6, 4:16 am, Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net> wrote:
"If this presidential campaign is anything like the last, John McCain's
Vietnam service will inevitably be contrasted with GOP rival Rudy
Giuliani's avoidance of a war that he opposed," opines Bill Sammon of the
Washington Examiner in a news story. Giuliani had an "occupational
deferment" in 1969, and the following year drew a favorable number in the
draft lottery, so that he was never called. Argues Sammon:
Another Republican chickenhawk. Now there's a shock.
Of course, Rudy does have the courage to wear womens' clothing in
public. I guess for the GOP that wouldmake him a hero.
Anyone who dismisses the significance of Vietnam as
a potential issue in the 2008 campaign is forgetting
how surprisingly potent it proved in 2004, when there
was enormous interest in the military records of both
President Bush and Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts.
Four years later, with the nation still at war,
Americans likely are to again scrutinize the military
records of those who seek the job of commander in chief.
Let's step back and consider this for a moment, shall we? It's true that
there was "enormous interest" in Bush's and Kerry's military records in
2004--but mostly from Democrats and left-leaning journalists, who bought
into the notion that the Dems' nominating a "war hero" was the ticket to
the White House.
This notion, of course, turned out to be false: The Texas Air National
Guard veteran soundly defeated the self-styled Vietnam hero. Four years
earlier Bush beat Al Gore, who also served in Vietnam, albeit only as an
Army journalist. Bush's chief rival for the 2000 Republican nomination
was John McCain.
In the two preceding elections, Bill Clinton, who like Giuliani avoided
Vietnam-era military service, beat George H.W. Bush and Bob Dole, both of
whom had impressive World War II records. Among the rivals Clinton bested
for the 1992 nomination were Bob Kerrey, a genuine war hero, and Tom
Harkin, a fake one.
In the past four elections, that is, the man without overseas military
experience beat the man with it--and moreover, both of the past two
presidents defeated Vietnam war heroes to win their party's nomination.
You have to go back to 1988, when the elder Bush beat Michael Dukakis
(who served in the Army during peacetime) to find an election in which
the winner clearly had a more impressive military record than the loser.
Maybe things will be different next year, but Sammon doesn't offer any
reason to think so.
.
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Do You Feel a Draft? |
06 Mar 2007 01:26:39 PM |
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On Mar 6, 7:25 am, "Paddy O'Shea" <paddy.os...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Of course, Rudy does have the courage to wear womens' clothing in
public. I guess for the GOP that wouldmake him a hero.
It takes a lot of guts to tell the public that you are cheating on
your wife, but it's OK because you are now impotent thanks to medical
treatment.
.
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| User: "Paddy OShea" |
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| Title: Re: Do You Feel a Draft? |
06 Mar 2007 07:35:27 PM |
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On Mar 6, 11:26 am, "z" <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 7:25 am, "Paddy O'Shea" <paddy.os...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Of course, Rudy does have the courage to wear womens' clothing in
public. I guess for the GOP that would make him a hero.
It takes a lot of guts to tell the public that you are cheating on
your wife, but it's OK because you are now impotent thanks to medical
treatment.
Explains the wig and make up ..
.
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