| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Joe Blowtowski" |
| Date: |
03 Aug 2004 10:55:34 AM |
| Object: |
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him? - Part 1 |
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
There is the period of time he actually was in Vietnam.
- apx. 4 months from _____ to _____. (please fill in blanks)
-There is the period of time after he left Vietnam.
-There is the period of time he was leading the VVafW
-There is the period of time where the VVafW was being
watched by the FBI
-There is the period of time he was campaigning for McGovern
-And the there is the period of time from when Lt. Kerry was
Dukakis's Lt. Governor.
-also there is the period of time he has spent in the Senate
- the early Senate Days and his relationship with Ortega
- the early Senate Days and his hatred of Ronald Reagan
- the early Senate Days and his Tax Votes
- the early Senate Days and his Military Cuts
-Later we have the corruption of the Clinton Years
- Chinagate
- the Illegal Campaign Funds
- Johnny Chung, ect...
- more...
-And then of course we still have the last few years..
Thank You
[ Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him? - Part 1 of 10 ]
- Part 1 of 10
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
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| Title: Re: Yo Joe - did you even read your question? |
03 Aug 2004 12:07:54 PM |
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"Joe Blowtowski" <Joe_Blow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79cvg056b8c7hvlsasflj9lbk7tu6vlv6u@4ax.com...
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
It's not a yes or no question, so if somebody answers "yes" or "no" they'd
have to be a fucking stupid as you are.
.
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
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| Title: Re: Yo Joe - did you even read your question? |
03 Aug 2004 12:39:57 PM |
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"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KDPPc.7980$Jp6.7740@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Joe Blowtowski" <Joe_Blow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79cvg056b8c7hvlsasflj9lbk7tu6vlv6u@4ax.com...
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
It's not a yes or no question, so if somebody answers "yes" or "no" they'd
have to be a fucking stupid as you are.
Being as you seem to think Kerry can personally have an abortion, that would
be you, now would'nt it?
You are as "fucking stupid" as they come.
In other words, that makes you completely qualified to answer his questions
based on your own criteria.
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
|
| Title: Re: Yo Joe - did you even read your question? |
03 Aug 2004 12:57:36 PM |
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"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceoilf$1jhm$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KDPPc.7980$Jp6.7740@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Joe Blowtowski" <Joe_Blow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79cvg056b8c7hvlsasflj9lbk7tu6vlv6u@4ax.com...
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
It's not a yes or no question, so if somebody answers "yes" or "no"
they'd
have to be a fucking stupid as you are.
Being as you seem to think Kerry can personally have an abortion, that
would
be you, now would'nt it?
1) If you knew anything about married people and pregnancy, you'd know that
both partners make decisions about having a child or possibly having an
abortion. If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an abortion". See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible. Of course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair for me to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an intimate
level.
2) I usually disdain spell-flames, but as you're calling names based on
smarts, I'll point out that it's "wouldn't", not "would'nt"
3) The guy asked for a yes or no answer to a question that couldn't be
answered rationally "yes" or "no". Is it that not only can't you write
English, but you can't read it either?
Better luck next time Ed
.
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
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| Title: Re: Yo abracadabra, you ever heard of logical thought? |
03 Aug 2004 01:28:23 PM |
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"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kmQPc.24334$iK.23560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceoilf$1jhm$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KDPPc.7980$Jp6.7740@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Joe Blowtowski" <Joe_Blow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79cvg056b8c7hvlsasflj9lbk7tu6vlv6u@4ax.com...
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
It's not a yes or no question, so if somebody answers "yes" or "no"
they'd
have to be a fucking stupid as you are.
Being as you seem to think Kerry can personally have an abortion, that
would
be you, now would'nt it?
1) If you knew anything about married people and pregnancy, you'd know
that
both partners make decisions about having a child or possibly having an
abortion.
Are you really that clueless?
Because it only takes one person to make that choice. they can ask for help
or they can get guidance, the person getting the abortion (that's the female
by the way)
makes the choice.
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an abortion". See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible. Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair for me to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
All three of them were planned and very much wanted.
See, a litte forsight was all that was needed, we knew when we wanted
to have kids, and did what we had to to make sure a pregnancy never
happened.
Sure we had sex a lot before and after we were married, but we were smart
enough
to be cautious about unwanted pregnancy.
What a simple concept that is huh? thinking ahead, understanding the
consequences
of one actions... Wow, mind blowing isn't it?
Your idiotic "it takes two people to make that choice" is so unconvincing
that
you look even less intelligent that you already do.
2) I usually disdain spell-flames, but as you're calling names based on
smarts, I'll point out that it's "wouldn't", not "would'nt"
Whatever brain donor, I probably type faster than you can think.
3) The guy asked for a yes or no answer to a question that couldn't be
answered rationally "yes" or "no". Is it that not only can't you write
English, but you can't read it either?
He asked a yes or no question and wanted an explanation for both, your
chance to shed a little light on your
support for Kerry was there for the taking and you passed it up..
is that too hard for you? apparently it is.
Are you afraid that someone (like me) will chew you up and spit you out (as
usual)
Come on, tell us why Kerry deserves to be president, but do it based on his
accomplishments
and not becasue you hate the other guy.
Can you do it... I doubt it.
Better luck next time Ed
Please give me some other strawman to beat you with!!!
PLEASE!!!!
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
|
| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann - are you a flip flopper? |
03 Aug 2004 02:12:04 PM |
|
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"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceolg9$1ku0$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kmQPc.24334$iK.23560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceoilf$1jhm$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KDPPc.7980$Jp6.7740@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Joe Blowtowski" <Joe_Blow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79cvg056b8c7hvlsasflj9lbk7tu6vlv6u@4ax.com...
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
It's not a yes or no question, so if somebody answers "yes" or "no"
they'd
have to be a fucking stupid as you are.
Being as you seem to think Kerry can personally have an abortion, that
would
be you, now would'nt it?
1) If you knew anything about married people and pregnancy, you'd know
that
both partners make decisions about having a child or possibly having an
abortion.
Are you really that clueless?
Because it only takes one person to make that choice. they can ask for
help
or they can get guidance, the person getting the abortion (that's the
female
by the way)
makes the choice.
Having children was a choice my wife and I made.
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand how adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an abortion". See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible. Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair for me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about it?
All three of them were planned and very much wanted.
But you said only one person makes those decisions - are you a flip-flopper?
See, a litte forsight was all that was needed, we knew when we wanted
to have kids, and did what we had to to make sure a pregnancy never
happened.
What has that to do with anything? I have three kids, we planned for three,
and two were actually conceived when we planned them for. So what?
Sure we had sex a lot before and after we were married, but we were smart
enough
to be cautious about unwanted pregnancy.
As an adult should. So why are you so judgemental about a couple that opts
to terminate a pregnancy? Both the man and woman can make the choice. Maybe
you ought to have your obviously much smarter wife explain it to you.
What a simple concept that is huh? thinking ahead, understanding the
consequences
of one actions... Wow, mind blowing isn't it?
Maybe you ought to explain that to Dubya - can you imagine how much beter
things in Iraq would be going if Bush thought ahead, understood consequences
of his actions?
Your idiotic "it takes two people to make that choice" is so unconvincing
that
you look even less intelligent that you already do.
So, did you and your wife decide to have the children or was it just one of
you? Which one?
Or are you gonna flip-flop?
2) I usually disdain spell-flames, but as you're calling names based on
smarts, I'll point out that it's "wouldn't", not "would'nt"
Whatever brain donor, I probably type faster than you can think.
Well, you obviously type faster then you can think :-)
3) The guy asked for a yes or no answer to a question that couldn't be
answered rationally "yes" or "no". Is it that not only can't you write
English, but you can't read it either?
He asked a yes or no question
That's a lie.
Here's his original question
"Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?"
The answer requires the words "Hurt" or "Help", not "yes" and "no"
period
and wanted an explanation for both, your
chance to shed a little light on your
support for Kerry was there for the taking and you passed it up..
is that too hard for you? apparently it is.
Joe Blowtowski never follows up his own threads when you engage him
seriously, so I don't engage him seriously. He's not worth my time.
Are you afraid that someone (like me) will chew you up and spit you out
(as
usual)
Yeah, right.
Come on, tell us why Kerry deserves to be president, but do it based on
his
accomplishments
and not becasue you hate the other guy.
Kerry's character is better then that of Bush.
His Resume, from college to the present is better then that of Bush.
Pretty much everything I read or hear about Kerry makes him more fit then
Bush.
.
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
|
| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann - are you a flip flopper? |
03 Aug 2004 03:16:52 PM |
|
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"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8sRPc.8079$Jp6.2587@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceolg9$1ku0$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kmQPc.24334$iK.23560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceoilf$1jhm$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KDPPc.7980$Jp6.7740@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Joe Blowtowski" <Joe_Blow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79cvg056b8c7hvlsasflj9lbk7tu6vlv6u@4ax.com...
First, let's get the big question out of the way
Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?
If you said No, would you please explain why.
Thank You
And if you answer Yes,
what part of his past are you referring too?
It's not a yes or no question, so if somebody answers "yes" or
"no"
they'd
have to be a fucking stupid as you are.
Being as you seem to think Kerry can personally have an abortion,
that
would
be you, now would'nt it?
1) If you knew anything about married people and pregnancy, you'd know
that
both partners make decisions about having a child or possibly having
an
abortion.
Are you really that clueless?
Because it only takes one person to make that choice. they can ask for
help
or they can get guidance, the person getting the abortion (that's the
female
by the way)
makes the choice.
Having children was a choice my wife and I made.
That is absolutely correct!
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
That is why we had kids when we did, becasue we thought about it first.
instead of screwing and worrying about it later.
Wow again, communication and forethought, something that seems completely
alien to you.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand how
adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
So is this your case as to why it should be legal,
we would not want to inconvience you in any way,
especially in regards to having children who have special needs.
What about the other vast majority who do it so that they do not have
to deal with having children at all, you know, those unborn children
who for some reason are not given the chance to survive due to
SELFISHNESS!!! that is the vast majority of abortions today, and you damn
well know it.
it's a matter of convienence plain and simple. A convienence that allows you
to kill an
accident that probably could have been prevented in the first place had a
sense of responsibility...
Wow another concept which seem alien to you.
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an abortion".
See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible. Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair for
me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an
intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about it?
We talked about it of course. becasue we were at that time commited to a
family.
Why are you trying to make it sound as though only married couples have
abotrtions?
All three of them were planned and very much wanted.
But you said only one person makes those decisions - are you a
flip-flopper?
the person that has to endure the propcedure at all makes the final
descision,
ever heard of a wopman forcibly having an abortion?
or a man that forciblky forbid it from happening.
No flip flop at all, unless you feel that the vast majority of abortions
are being performed for married couples or concerned couples.
Or that the vast majority of the descisions to have them are between two
people.
which we know is not the case.
You really are clueless
See, a litte forsight was all that was needed, we knew when we wanted
to have kids, and did what we had to to make sure a pregnancy never
happened.
What has that to do with anything? I have three kids, we planned for
three,
and two were actually conceived when we planned them for. So what?
It has everything to do with it.
It's called BEING RESPONSIBLE, and looking at the consequences BEFORE
you do something that can have a life changing effect.
Again, the responsibility aspect of not getting pregnant at all, seems to be
lost on you.
Sure we had sex a lot before and after we were married, but we were
smart
enough
to be cautious about unwanted pregnancy.
As an adult should. So why are you so judgemental about a couple that opts
to terminate a pregnancy?
Becasue they are killing a human life for the express purposes of SELFISH
CONVIENENCE.
period. It's all about them and not about the unborn life they carelessly
throw away becasue it may be too hard to raise it!
Both the man and woman can make the choice. Maybe
you ought to have your obviously much smarter wife explain it to you.
So when my wife (ex wife now) comes up to me and says, Honey I'm pregnant,
I am going to have an abortion, what am I supposed to do
Call the cops?, Lock her in the house??
Tie her to the bed.
No one can make them not do what it is they want to do. period
As well as no can make them NOT DO what it is they want to do.
so no, you cannot force your choice on anyone else and they cannot
make the choice for you.
What a simple concept that is huh? thinking ahead, understanding the
consequences
of one actions... Wow, mind blowing isn't it?
Maybe you ought to explain that to Dubya - can you imagine how much beter
things in Iraq would be going if Bush thought ahead, understood
consequences
of his actions?
Your idiotic "it takes two people to make that choice" is so
unconvincing
that
you look even less intelligent that you already do.
So, did you and your wife decide to have the children or was it just one
of
you? Which one?
Or are you gonna flip-flop?
We talked about it, we have both always wanted children,
so for us the choices were pretty easy. She did all the work.
2) I usually disdain spell-flames, but as you're calling names based
on
smarts, I'll point out that it's "wouldn't", not "would'nt"
Whatever brain donor, I probably type faster than you can think.
Well, you obviously type faster then you can think :-)
3) The guy asked for a yes or no answer to a question that couldn't be
answered rationally "yes" or "no". Is it that not only can't you write
English, but you can't read it either?
He asked a yes or no question
That's a lie.
Here's his original question
"Does Lt. Kerry's past hurt or help him?"
The answer requires the words "Hurt" or "Help", not "yes" and "no"
period
and wanted an explanation for both, your
chance to shed a little light on your
support for Kerry was there for the taking and you passed it up..
is that too hard for you? apparently it is.
Joe Blowtowski never follows up his own threads when you engage him
seriously, so I don't engage him seriously. He's not worth my time.
Are you afraid that someone (like me) will chew you up and spit you out
(as
usual)
Yeah, right.
Come on, tell us why Kerry deserves to be president, but do it based on
his
accomplishments
and not becasue you hate the other guy.
Kerry's character is better then that of Bush.
His Resume, from college to the present is better then that of Bush.
Pretty much everything I read or hear about Kerry makes him more fit then
Bush.
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
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| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann - are you a flip flopper? |
04 Aug 2004 07:33:11 AM |
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|
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceorrm$1nn3$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8sRPc.8079$Jp6.2587@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
SO, together, you made the decision that you would not have an abortion,
JUST LIKE SENATOR KERRY.
You just proved my point - in a good marraige, both partners have a roll in
making a decision of that importance. Hence I can say "Kerry would not have
an abortion"
Thanks!
.
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
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| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann - are you a flip flopper? |
05 Aug 2004 08:31:06 AM |
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"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bI4Qc.10407$Jp6.8197@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceorrm$1nn3$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8sRPc.8079$Jp6.2587@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross
fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
SO, together, you made the decision that you would not have an abortion,
JUST LIKE SENATOR KERRY.
You said Kerry would not personally have an abortion,
like it is his descision not to do so, never taking into account
that it is not his descision at all, he may have input, but
he cannot personally have anything in regards to actually having an
abortion.
Care to give us a statistic that shows that responsible couples are the only
ones chosing to have an abortion, or are the ones that have them most often.
here are a few for you.
try using your silliy logic on these statistics, then get back to us
when you have gotten a clue!
67% or women who have an abortion, have never been married
here is a few more for you:
a.. 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone
childbearing.
Selfishness, plain and simple!
a.. 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
b.. 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not
want a child.
c.. 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the
pregnancy.)
d.. 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
e.. 7.9% of women want no (more) children.
f.. 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
g.. 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.
the overwhelmeing majority are having abortions for reasons that have very
little to do with
fetal health, most are due to purely selfish reasons.
Your rationale is lacking if you think that it's always decided by the two
people involved.
and your lack of addressing the fact about what happens
when one says yes and the other says no.
You just proved my point - in a good marraige, both partners have a roll
in
making a decision of that importance. Hence I can say "Kerry would not
have
an abortion"
Thanks!
You just proved beyond a shadow of doubt, You've not clue # 1 what
the hell you are talking about.
My suggestion to you would be to understand what you are talking about
before
you make yourself look even more ignorant on the subject than you obviously
are.
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
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| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann - are you a flip flopper? |
05 Aug 2004 11:03:59 AM |
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"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetcqr$pmm$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bI4Qc.10407$Jp6.8197@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceorrm$1nn3$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8sRPc.8079$Jp6.2587@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross
fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything
like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
SO, together, you made the decision that you would not have an abortion,
JUST LIKE SENATOR KERRY.
You said Kerry would not personally have an abortion,
like it is his descision not to do so, never taking into account
that it is not his descision at all,
Of course it is. You already proved that when you said that you and your
spouse talked about the posibility of having an abortion and rejected it.
You had a part in the decision.
Just like Kerry.
he may have input, but
he cannot personally have anything in regards to actually having an
abortion.
But by having input he did have something to do with it.
Make up your mind!
Care to give us a statistic that shows that responsible couples are the
only
ones chosing to have an abortion, or are the ones that have them most
often.
Wow - they keep statistics on that?
here are a few for you.
try using your silliy logic on these statistics, then get back to us
when you have gotten a clue!
67% or women who have an abortion, have never been married
So you want all these unmarried women having unwanted kids?
BTW - where did you get your "facts"? I've been in abortion clinics and I
don't see any statistic takers, and medical records are private.
here is a few more for you:
a.. 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone
childbearing.
Selfishness, plain and simple!
a.. 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
b.. 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not
want a child.
c.. 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the
pregnancy.)
d.. 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
e.. 7.9% of women want no (more) children.
f.. 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
g.. 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.
Again, where do these stats come from?
the overwhelmeing majority are having abortions for reasons that have very
little to do with
fetal health, most are due to purely selfish reasons.
Who did any survey that determined the selfishness of these decisions?
Are you just making this up?
Your rationale is lacking if you think that it's always decided by the two
people involved.
and your lack of addressing the fact about what happens
when one says yes and the other says no.
I never, never, never said that in every abortion that takes place that two
people make the decision.
I wasn't aware that Kerry had ever supported or paid for even one abortion.
You just proved my point - in a good marraige, both partners have a roll
in
making a decision of that importance. Hence I can say "Kerry would not
have
an abortion"
Thanks!
You just proved beyond a shadow of doubt, You've not clue # 1 what
the hell you are talking about.
How?
WTF are you talking about?
My suggestion to you would be to understand what you are talking about
before
you make yourself look even more ignorant on the subject than you
obviously
are.
As you seem to have no idea what you're talking about, I'll just ignore that
last idiotic comment.
.
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
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| Title: Re: Abracadabra "wow they keep statistics on tha?t" regarding abortion |
05 Aug 2004 12:31:18 PM |
|
|
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PTsQc.1292$nx2.371@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetcqr$pmm$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bI4Qc.10407$Jp6.8197@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceorrm$1nn3$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8sRPc.8079$Jp6.2587@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross
fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything
like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
SO, together, you made the decision that you would not have an
abortion,
JUST LIKE SENATOR KERRY.
You said Kerry would not personally have an abortion,
like it is his descision not to do so, never taking into account
that it is not his descision at all,
Of course it is. You already proved that when you said that you and your
spouse talked about the posibility of having an abortion and rejected it.
You had a part in the decision.
Just like Kerry.
What my spouse and I talked about has ZERO to do with Kerry.
He cannot personally make the descision for anyone.
like I said he has input, whether it's followed or not is NOT HIS
DESCISION!!!
Get it??
Probably not
he may have input, but
he cannot personally have anything in regards to actually having an
abortion.
But by having input he did have something to do with it.
Make up your mind!
Yeah, and the person actually having the procedure has not a word
to say about it do they?
Your silly notions that since he won't have one seems to mean that his
partner would not
are stupid and a reach.
He can not want her to have one, but the descision to go through with it
is not his to make! period!
Get it?
probably not
Care to give us a statistic that shows that responsible couples are the
only
ones chosing to have an abortion, or are the ones that have them most
often.
Wow - they keep statistics on that?
here are a few for you.
try using your silliy logic on these statistics, then get back to us
when you have gotten a clue!
67% or women who have an abortion, have never been married
So you want all these unmarried women having unwanted kids?
No, I want all these unmarried women
to be responsible for their actions.
They had sex knowing that if they got pregnant, it could be dealt with,
so they did not need to worry as much, but the reality is that
these women took the EASY WAY OUT, instead of being responsible.
When you say unwanted kids, you mean they don't want their life to changed
becasue of something stupid they did. Like have sex without thinking about
the
consequences 1st.. Oh yeah they did. If I get pregnant I'll just have an
abortion
Talk about being selfish.
BTW - where did you get your "facts"? I've been in abortion clinics and I
don't see any statistic takers, and medical records are private.
You truly are clueless aren't you?
I guess that since there are no statistics taken (which there are)
that would mean to you that every abortion happens when two
loving indivuals make the descision together..
You are getting so way over your head here it's beginning to scare me.
facts!!!
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm
http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/statistics.asp
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/
Now idiot, read and learn something!
here is a few more for you:
a.. 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone
childbearing.
Selfishness, plain and simple!
a.. 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
b.. 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not
want a child.
c.. 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to
the
pregnancy.)
d.. 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or
career.
e.. 7.9% of women want no (more) children.
f.. 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
g.. 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health.
Again, where do these stats come from?
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm
http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/statistics.asp
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/
These and probably a hundred or so more just like them,
Appareantly you're too smart for this stuff and that you just KNOW it all
without having any documentation to prove your stupidity.
A persons privacy does not have to be breached in order to gather
statistics
on the activities that happen in planned parenthood clinics.
I guess since there are no stitistics on it, it must not happen at all as
well
bwahahahahahaha
Now you are really looking ignorant.
the overwhelmeing majority are having abortions for reasons that have
very
little to do with
fetal health, most are due to purely selfish reasons.
Who did any survey that determined the selfishness of these decisions?
Are you just making this up?
Are you making your crap up.
Just becasue you have been to a clininc does not mean you have any idea
about
which you are truly unknowing.
And yes for the 2nd time I have been to a planned parenthood clinic, I have
seen the people there.
My personal experience involves a family member that did have an abortion.
I went becasue I was worried about her even though I was completely against
it.
She made the choice, not me not her BF not anyone, but her. period
Your rationale is lacking if you think that it's always decided by the
two
people involved.
and your lack of addressing the fact about what happens
when one says yes and the other says no.
I never, never, never said that in every abortion that takes place that
two
people make the decision.
You sure as hell implied it in all your spinning on the topic
So what happens when what I said happens, please I would love to
hear this answer. I need a good laugh
I wasn't aware that Kerry had ever supported or paid for even one
abortion.
Like that is something we're likely to know about anyway.
You just proved my point - in a good marraige, both partners have a
roll
in
making a decision of that importance. Hence I can say "Kerry would not
have
an abortion"
Thanks!
You just proved beyond a shadow of doubt, You've not clue # 1 what
the hell you are talking about.
How?
WTF are you talking about?
I am talking about abortion, you, you're rambling on as if you think you
know what your talking about.
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
|
| Title: Re: Oh and I wanted to add |
04 Aug 2004 07:52:13 AM |
|
|
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:ceorrm$1nn3$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
That is why we had kids when we did, becasue we thought about it first.
instead of screwing and worrying about it later.
Wow again, communication and forethought, something that seems completely
alien to you.
What a stupid thing to say, as I already mentioned that our kids were
planned.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand how
adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
So is this your case as to why it should be legal,
we would not want to inconvience you in any way,
especially in regards to having children who have special needs.
If I didn't want to be "inconvenienced" I wouldn't have kids, I'd have
goldfish. Why do you think people have the many different tests?
What about the other vast majority who do it so that they do not have
to deal with having children at all
You mean abortion? Frankly you leave the impression you know nothing of the
subject.
1) Do you know anybody who had an abortion?
2) Have you ever been inside an abortion clinic?
3) Why ought the federal government be messing around in the choices of
couples anyway?
you know, those unborn children
who for some reason are not given the chance to survive due to
SELFISHNESS!!!
You have no idea why a person gets an abortion. Claiming that they are
"selfish" is foolish on your part.
that is the vast majority of abortions today, and you damn
well know it.
You seem to "know it", but you don't have any facts to back you up.
it's a matter of convienence plain and simple. A convienence that allows
you
to kill an
accident that probably could have been prevented in the first place had a
sense of responsibility...
Wow another concept which seem alien to you.
You toss out a lot of pointless insults for somebody who doesn't even check
their own spelling
Try to be civil, eh?
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an abortion".
See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible.
Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair for
me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an
intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about it?
We talked about it of course. becasue we were at that time commited to a
family.
Why are you trying to make it sound as though only married couples have
abotrtions?
What were you attacking me about in the first place? Can't keep up with your
own line of attack? I was presuming that I had said something like "Kerry
can support the freedom of legal abortion while personally opposing
abortion" or "Kerry has never had or paid for an abortion" and you attacked
me on it, implying I had said that Kerry could carry a baby inside his body
that could be aborted.
You attacked me specifically in the case of Kerry, who is married.
BTW, when I have been inside an abortion clinic (twice, with friends who
were terminating a pregnancy in both cases) nearly every girl in the clinic
was 15 years old or younger. Seems to me that a big part of the problem is
adult men getting kids pregnant.
All three of them were planned and very much wanted.
But you said only one person makes those decisions - are you a
flip-flopper?
the person that has to endure the propcedure at all makes the final
descision,
I presume you're speaking for yourself. How many of your kids has your wife
aborted without even consulting you?
ever heard of a wopman forcibly having an abortion?
or a man that forciblky forbid it from happening.
Damned staright I have. You need to go talk to people who were around when
the nation's laws were a hodgepodge of abortion laws. In many cases the
husband was the one who decided if their would be an abortion or not - even
in the case of a life threatening pregnancy.
See, a litte forsight was all that was needed, we knew when we wanted
to have kids, and did what we had to to make sure a pregnancy never
happened.
What has that to do with anything? I have three kids, we planned for
three,
and two were actually conceived when we planned them for. So what?
It has everything to do with it.
It's called BEING RESPONSIBLE, and looking at the consequences BEFORE
you do something that can have a life changing effect.
Again, too bad Bush and company couldn't follow that advice when it came to
the Iraq war. Even now they pretend they weren't responsible for any bad
decision they have made.
Sure we had sex a lot before and after we were married, but we were
smart
enough
to be cautious about unwanted pregnancy.
As an adult should. So why are you so judgemental about a couple that
opts
to terminate a pregnancy?
Becasue they are killing a human life for the express purposes of SELFISH
CONVIENENCE.
You don't know that. You are projecting - you have a guilty conscious?
What a simple concept that is huh? thinking ahead, understanding the
consequences
of one actions... Wow, mind blowing isn't it?
Maybe you ought to explain that to Dubya - can you imagine how much
beter
things in Iraq would be going if Bush thought ahead, understood
consequences
of his actions?
Your idiotic "it takes two people to make that choice" is so
unconvincing
that
you look even less intelligent that you already do.
So, did you and your wife decide to have the children or was it just one
of
you? Which one?
Or are you gonna flip-flop?
We talked about it, we have both always wanted children,
so for us the choices were pretty easy. She did all the work.
Really? I mean, having been through three pregnancies I can recall a lot of
work on my part.
.
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
|
| Title: Re: Oh and I wanted to add |
05 Aug 2004 08:45:09 AM |
|
|
Snipped above becasue there is not point, as you have not a clue
what you are talking about.
ever heard of a wopman forcibly having an abortion?
or a man that forciblky forbid it from happening.
Damned staright I have.
And the fact that it is legal at all, is probably the sinlge largest reason
why this happens at all!
did you ever think about that?
You need to go talk to people who were around when
the nation's laws were a hodgepodge of abortion laws. In many cases the
husband was the one who decided if their would be an abortion or not -
even
in the case of a life threatening pregnancy.
See, a litte forsight was all that was needed, we knew when we
wanted
to have kids, and did what we had to to make sure a pregnancy never
happened.
What has that to do with anything? I have three kids, we planned for
three,
and two were actually conceived when we planned them for. So what?
It has everything to do with it.
It's called BEING RESPONSIBLE, and looking at the consequences BEFORE
you do something that can have a life changing effect.
Again, too bad Bush and company couldn't follow that advice when it came
to
the Iraq war. Even now they pretend they weren't responsible for any bad
decision they have made.
Don't change the subject, this issue and GWB have nothing to do with each
other
in this context.
The fact that you even said it at all speaks volumes about your lack of
knowledge
on the subject, period.
Sure we had sex a lot before and after we were married, but we were
smart
enough
to be cautious about unwanted pregnancy.
As an adult should. So why are you so judgemental about a couple that
opts
to terminate a pregnancy?
Becasue they are killing a human life for the express purposes of
SELFISH
CONVIENENCE.
You don't know that. You are projecting - you have a guilty conscious?
Loot at the statistics you idiot, and tell me again that it's not pure
selfishness as to why MOST abortions are performed today.
Please, I can't wait to see them.
here are some for you!
a.. 25.5% of women deciding to have an abortion want to postpone
childbearing.
Selfish reasons!
a.. 21.3% of women cannot afford a baby.
Selfish, and unwilling to take responsibility when they decided not to worry
about what would happen
when they got pregnant
a.. 14.1% of women have a relationship issue or their partner does not want
a child.
a..
Hmmm.. more selfishness
a.. 12.2% of women are too young (their parents or others object to the
pregnancy.)
Again, the lives involved will be changed, they can't have that, can they
Again Selfishness, plain and simple.
a.. 10.8% of women feel a child will disrupt their education or career.
Extremely selfish!
a.. 7.9% of women want no (more) children.
Again selfishness
a.. 3.3% of women have an abortion due to a risk to fetal health.
a.. 2.8% of women have an abortion due to a risk to maternal health
6% of abortions are dues to some medical reason,
the way you pro-choice advocates talk, that's all that matters.
What a COS!
What a simple concept that is huh? thinking ahead, understanding
the
consequences
of one actions... Wow, mind blowing isn't it?
Maybe you ought to explain that to Dubya - can you imagine how much
beter
things in Iraq would be going if Bush thought ahead, understood
consequences
of his actions?
Your idiotic "it takes two people to make that choice" is so
unconvincing
that
you look even less intelligent that you already do.
So, did you and your wife decide to have the children or was it just
one
of
you? Which one?
Or are you gonna flip-flop?
We talked about it, we have both always wanted children,
so for us the choices were pretty easy. She did all the work.
Really? I mean, having been through three pregnancies I can recall a lot
of
work on my part.
I did work, but she did all the "heavy lifting"
Who's projecting now?
.
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| User: "abracadabra" |
|
| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann runs away from direct questions - is he a weakling or a coward? |
05 Aug 2004 11:08:30 AM |
|
|
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetdl7$q8a$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
Snipped above becasue there is not point, as you have not a clue
what you are talking about.
So now you're running away?
Why am I not surprised?
Well, let's just put in what you snipped out and see if you can actually
answer questions without running away:
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
That is why we had kids when we did, becasue we thought about it first.
instead of screwing and worrying about it later.
Wow again, communication and forethought, something that seems completely
alien to you.
What a stupid thing to say, as I already mentioned that our kids were
planned.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand how
adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
So is this your case as to why it should be legal,
we would not want to inconvience you in any way,
especially in regards to having children who have special needs.
If I didn't want to be "inconvenienced" I wouldn't have kids, I'd have
goldfish. Why do you think people have the many different tests?
What about the other vast majority who do it so that they do not have
to deal with having children at all
You mean abortion? Frankly you leave the impression you know nothing of the
subject.
1) Do you know anybody who had an abortion?
2) Have you ever been inside an abortion clinic?
3) Why ought the federal government be messing around in the choices of
couples anyway?
you know, those unborn children
who for some reason are not given the chance to survive due to
SELFISHNESS!!!
You have no idea why a person gets an abortion. Claiming that they are
"selfish" is foolish on your part.
that is the vast majority of abortions today, and you damn
well know it.
You seem to "know it", but you don't have any facts to back you up.
it's a matter of convienence plain and simple. A convienence that allows
you
to kill an
accident that probably could have been prevented in the first place had a
sense of responsibility...
Wow another concept which seem alien to you.
You toss out a lot of pointless insults for somebody who doesn't even check
their own spelling
Try to be civil, eh?
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an abortion".
See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible.
Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair for
me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an
intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about it?
We talked about it of course. becasue we were at that time commited to a
family.
Why are you trying to make it sound as though only married couples have
abotrtions?
What were you attacking me about in the first place? Can't keep up with your
own line of attack? I was presuming that I had said something like "Kerry
can support the freedom of legal abortion while personally opposing
abortion" or "Kerry has never had or paid for an abortion" and you attacked
me on it, implying I had said that Kerry could carry a baby inside his body
that could be aborted.
You attacked me specifically in the case of Kerry, who is married.
BTW, when I have been inside an abortion clinic (twice, with friends who
were terminating a pregnancy in both cases) nearly every girl in the clinic
was 15 years old or younger. Seems to me that a big part of the problem is
adult men getting kids pregnant.
All three of them were planned and very much wanted.
But you said only one person makes those decisions - are you a
flip-flopper?
the person that has to endure the propcedure at all makes the final
descision,
I presume you're speaking for yourself. How many of your kids has your wife
aborted without even consulting you?
WOW - you sure snipped out a lot!
You must really be unable to answer simple, easy, direct questions.
I *snipped* out everything else you wrote, figuring that maybe you better
face up toe the questions you ran away from.
.
|
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
|
| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann runs away from direct questions - is he a weakling or a coward? |
05 Aug 2004 01:25:12 PM |
|
|
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2YsQc.1295$nx2.541@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetdl7$q8a$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
Snipped above becasue there is not point, as you have not a clue
what you are talking about.
So now you're running away?
Why am I not surprised?
Well, let's just put in what you snipped out and see if you can actually
answer questions without running away:
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross
fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
That is why we had kids when we did, becasue we thought about it first.
instead of screwing and worrying about it later.
Wow again, communication and forethought, something that seems
completely
alien to you.
What a stupid thing to say, as I already mentioned that our kids were
planned.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand how
adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
So is this your case as to why it should be legal,
we would not want to inconvience you in any way,
especially in regards to having children who have special needs.
If I didn't want to be "inconvenienced" I wouldn't have kids, I'd have
goldfish. Why do you think people have the many different tests?
to determine the health of the unborn child, to maybe procatively
prevent and or treat problems during pregnancy, to make you aware
of the special needs of the child after birth. Basically it is to make you
aware
of anything that could affect the health of the child and or the mother.
It's not a lithmus test to see if the child is undesireable.
That is just plain sick, but I would not doubt that it happens.
What about the other vast majority who do it so that they do not have
to deal with having children at all
You mean abortion? Frankly you leave the impression you know nothing of
the
subject.
1) Do you know anybody who had an abortion?
yes, for the third time now..
2) Have you ever been inside an abortion clinic?
Yes, I have been to planned parenthood with a family member!
3) Why ought the federal government be messing around in the choices of
couples anyway?
Why ought the US goverment keep the killing of an unborn child legal?
you know, those unborn children
who for some reason are not given the chance to survive due to
SELFISHNESS!!!
You have no idea why a person gets an abortion. Claiming that they are
"selfish" is foolish on your part.
Statistics show that the overwhelmeing majority
have one becasue they do not want the child.
6% are due to medical reasons,
that puts the other 94% in that selfish catagory
that is the vast majority of abortions today, and you damn
well know it.
You seem to "know it", but you don't have any facts to back you up.
I have plenty of facts, I know this becasue I chose to educate myself
about the topic, I have very strong feelings about abortion. they come from
seeing the statistics
and knowing the difference between right and wrong.
You on the other hand have perfectly demonstrated the fact that you do not
know anything about
this issue other than what you've heard from the media, and what you saw in
a clinic.
hint: go to google and type in Abortion statistics and see how many hits
you get.
google is your friend.
it's a matter of convienence plain and simple. A convienence that allows
you
to kill an
accident that probably could have been prevented in the first place had
a
sense of responsibility...
Wow another concept which seem alien to you.
You toss out a lot of pointless insults for somebody who doesn't even
check
their own spelling
Try to be civil, eh?
I can't be civil to someone who thinks in such an uncivilized manner.
to you abortion is about a choice, to me it;s about running from one
and taking the easiest way out... kill it!
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an
abortion".
See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the Bible.
Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair
for
me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an
intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about it?
We talked about it of course. becasue we were at that time commited to a
family.
Why are you trying to make it sound as though only married couples have
abotrtions?
What were you attacking me about in the first place? Can't keep up with
your
own line of attack? I was presuming that I had said something like "Kerry
can support the freedom of legal abortion while personally opposing
abortion" or "Kerry has never had or paid for an abortion"
And you know this because?????? he says so??
and you attacked
me on it, implying I had said that Kerry could carry a baby inside his
body
that could be aborted.
Well you did say that Kerry would never personally have an abortion, did you
not. implying that it his descision alone
as to whether it would happen ot not. which it is not!
I attack you. in the same way you attack everyones intelligence in this
matter.
It's pretty obvious you don't know what you are talking about, and chose to
change the subject
to something like "why are you attacking me" when the merits of what you are
saying
are as far from reality as they could possibly be.
You attacked me specifically in the case of Kerry, who is married.
BTW, when I have been inside an abortion clinic (twice, with friends who
were terminating a pregnancy in both cases) nearly every girl in the
clinic
was 15 years old or younger. Seems to me that a big part of the problem is
adult men getting kids pregnant.
This is about as stupid an argument as I have ever heard in regards
to teenage pregnancy , and you should be ashamed that you even said it at
all.
What could possibly make you say something as uninformed and stupid as that?
Oh yeah, you've been to a clinic a couple of times. Wow!!
What you said above demostrates your ignorance on this subject in a way
that I could not have stated that fact any better than you just did.
All three of them were planned and very much wanted.
But you said only one person makes those decisions - are you a
flip-flopper?
the person that has to endure the propcedure at all makes the final
descision,
I presume you're speaking for yourself. How many of your kids has your
wife
aborted without even consulting you?
None. But that still begs the question, what happens when the husband does
not want it
but the woman does, or vice versa?
Again it all comes down to who has to have the procedure. it's just that
simple.
WOW - you sure snipped out a lot!
You must really be unable to answer simple, easy, direct questions.
I have asked you the same question 4 or 5 times now and you have not as of
yet even
touched on it
I *snipped* out everything else you wrote, figuring that maybe you better
face up toe the questions you ran away from.
.
|
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| User: "abracadabra" |
|
| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann runs away from direct questions - is he a weakling or a coward? |
05 Aug 2004 10:24:15 PM |
|
|
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetu2b$11nq$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2YsQc.1295$nx2.541@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetdl7$q8a$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
Snipped above becasue there is not point, as you have not a clue
what you are talking about.
So now you're running away?
Why am I not surprised?
Well, let's just put in what you snipped out and see if you can actually
answer questions without running away:
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross
fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything
like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
That is why we had kids when we did, becasue we thought about it
first.
instead of screwing and worrying about it later.
Wow again, communication and forethought, something that seems
completely
alien to you.
What a stupid thing to say, as I already mentioned that our kids were
planned.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand how
adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
So is this your case as to why it should be legal,
we would not want to inconvience you in any way,
especially in regards to having children who have special needs.
If I didn't want to be "inconvenienced" I wouldn't have kids, I'd have
goldfish. Why do you think people have the many different tests?
to determine the health of the unborn child, to maybe procatively
prevent and or treat problems during pregnancy, to make you aware
of the special needs of the child after birth. Basically it is to make you
aware
of anything that could affect the health of the child and or the mother.
That's part of it.....
It's not a lithmus test to see if the child is undesireable.
WRONG
Their are plenty of malformations, abnormalities and chromosomal problems
that might give a couple a reason to end the pregnancy.
That is just plain sick, but I would not doubt that it happens.
Nothing sick about it. A couple wants a family. They don't want a lifetime
taking care of a person who has no hope or future. Some people aren't up to
the job.
What about the other vast majority who do it so that they do not have
to deal with having children at all
You mean abortion? Frankly you leave the impression you know nothing of
the
subject.
1) Do you know anybody who had an abortion?
yes, for the third time now..
Third time when you were talking to somebody else.
2) Have you ever been inside an abortion clinic?
Yes, I have been to planned parenthood with a family member!
Great. Except Planned Parenthood isn't an abortion clinic.
3) Why ought the federal government be messing around in the choices of
couples anyway?
Why ought the US goverment keep the killing of an unborn child legal?
WTF are you talking about? It isn't legal to kill children.
Abortion near the end of pregnancy is regulated. Early term abortion is not.
Whats the problem? Declaring every unborn baby is, from conception, the same
in the eyes of the law as an adult human being is totally unworkable.
you know, those unborn children
who for some reason are not given the chance to survive due to
SELFISHNESS!!!
You have no idea why a person gets an abortion. Claiming that they are
"selfish" is foolish on your part.
Statistics show that the overwhelmeing majority
have one becasue they do not want the child.
That's not about being selfish. That's about PLANNING. Some people aren't
ready to be parents, and they shouldn't be.
6% are due to medical reasons,
that puts the other 94% in that selfish catagory
Your catagory is overly broad in my opinion. If a person is totally unable
to be a parent, why ought they be a parent?
that is the vast majority of abortions today, and you damn
well know it.
You seem to "know it", but you don't have any facts to back you up.
I have plenty of facts
You haven't presented one yet.
I know this becasue I chose to educate myself
Reading anti-abortion propaganda isn't educating yourself. You have to read
and understand the other side to understand an issue. It also sharpens your
own viewpoints and arguments when you force yourself to actually consider
things from other viewpoints. I used to me much more "pro-choice" then I am
now. Learning the arguments and facts from your side and considering them
made me appreciate the pro-life cause a lot more, even if I still think
abortion ought to remain illegal.
about the topic, I have very strong feelings about abortion. they come
from
seeing the statistics
and knowing the difference between right and wrong.
Hey - that I understand.
You on the other hand have perfectly demonstrated the fact that you do not
know anything about
this issue other than what you've heard from the media, and what you saw
in
a clinic.
I'm betting we're not that far apart in age, and I've been reading about
this subject since the late 1970's.
hint: go to google and type in Abortion statistics and see how many hits
you get.
google is your friend.
it's a matter of convienence plain and simple. A convienence that
allows
you
to kill an
accident that probably could have been prevented in the first place
had
a
sense of responsibility...
Wow another concept which seem alien to you.
You toss out a lot of pointless insults for somebody who doesn't even
check
their own spelling
Try to be civil, eh?
I can't be civil to someone who thinks in such an uncivilized manner.
to you abortion is about a choice, to me it;s about running from one
and taking the easiest way out... kill it!
Making abortion illegal is impractical, and also un-democratic (as upper
middle class and rich folks would still get safe abortions).
Legal abortion is better for our country. Sure, I'd prefer it if people were
responsible, and careful, or at least luckier. Heck - anybody willing to
kill their kid - ought that person at that time be a parent? Point it that
it's better overall to keep legal abortion then having more kids raised by
people who are unable to do the job.
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an
abortion".
See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the
Bible.
Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's unfair
for
me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on an
intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about it?
We talked about it of course. becasue we were at that time commited to
a
family.
Why are you trying to make it sound as though only married couples
have
abotrtions?
What were you attacking me about in the first place? Can't keep up with
your
own line of attack? I was presuming that I had said something like
"Kerry
can support the freedom of legal abortion while personally opposing
abortion" or "Kerry has never had or paid for an abortion"
And you know this because?????? he says so??
Kerry has said he's against abortion, so I presume that he's never paid for
or been involved with an abortion of a child of his. Any reports to the
contrary?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
|
| Title: Re: Brian Hoffmann runs away from direct questions - is he a weakling or a coward? |
06 Aug 2004 06:57:32 AM |
|
|
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zRCQc.2086$nx2.226@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetu2b$11nq$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2YsQc.1295$nx2.541@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Brian Hoffmann" <nascar@io.com> wrote in message
news:cetdl7$q8a$1@galaxy.us.dell.com...
Snipped above becasue there is not point, as you have not a clue
what you are talking about.
So now you're running away?
Why am I not surprised?
Well, let's just put in what you snipped out and see if you can
actually
answer questions without running away:
If we had decided to terminate one of the pregnancies due to gross
fetal
abnormality, that would have been "our" decision.
No, our descision in this regard is that we would never do anything
like
that,
even going so far as to talk about it before hand.'
That is why we had kids when we did, becasue we thought about it
first.
instead of screwing and worrying about it later.
Wow again, communication and forethought, something that seems
completely
alien to you.
What a stupid thing to say, as I already mentioned that our kids were
planned.
Read about how couples decide important issues so you understand
how
adults
interact.
Yeeeesh!
So is this your case as to why it should be legal,
we would not want to inconvience you in any way,
especially in regards to having children who have special needs.
If I didn't want to be "inconvenienced" I wouldn't have kids, I'd have
goldfish. Why do you think people have the many different tests?
to determine the health of the unborn child, to maybe procatively
prevent and or treat problems during pregnancy, to make you aware
of the special needs of the child after birth. Basically it is to make
you
aware
of anything that could affect the health of the child and or the mother.
That's part of it.....
It's not a lithmus test to see if the child is undesireable.
WRONG
Their are plenty of malformations, abnormalities and chromosomal problems
that might give a couple a reason to end the pregnancy.
You are truly a sick individual..
Those tests are to done for medical reasons, this is not Gattaca you moron.
the only reason to end a pregnancy is if there is not chance of survival of
either the mother or the child, no other reason is valid!
That is just plain sick, but I would not doubt that it happens.
Nothing sick about it. A couple wants a family. They don't want a lifetime
taking care of a person who has no hope or future. Some people aren't up
to
the job.
Selfish... you cannot explain it any other way.
What about the other vast majority who do it so that they do not
have
to deal with having children at all
You mean abortion? Frankly you leave the impression you know nothing
of
the
subject.
1) Do you know anybody who had an abortion?
yes, for the third time now..
Third time when you were talking to somebody else.
You obviously have reading comprehension problems..
Go back and look at all the posts we have had going back and forth.
or do I need to cut and paste them here?
This would be the 3rd time I told what my experiences were with planned
parenthood.
2) Have you ever been inside an abortion clinic?
Yes, I have been to planned parenthood with a family member!
Great. Except Planned Parenthood isn't an abortion clinic.
It is here is Texas and Louisana.
3) Why ought the federal government be messing around in the choices
of
couples anyway?
Why ought the US goverment keep the killing of an unborn child legal?
WTF are you talking about? It isn't legal to kill children.
It is if they are not born yet.
that is the problem.
Now we have partial birth abortion, what's next
after birth abortion, where does the cycle of selfishness end?
I see you have avoided the statistics like the plague, only responding where
you feel you have some knowledge.
Why is that? are they frightening to you?
They are to me.
I can see it now, your child develops a disease when it's 6 months old
and the parent don't want to deal with it, so they "abort" it becasue they
cannot cope with it, and it may cut into their personal lives a bit more
than they wanted.
Killing children, whehter unborn or not is SICK! and nothing will change
that fact, period!
Abortion near the end of pregnancy is regulated. Early term abortion is
not.
Whats the problem? Declaring every unborn baby is, from conception, the
same
in the eyes of the law as an adult human being is totally unworkable.
I hope you mean child instead of adult human. Children are afforded special
rights
is areas where they are unable to defend and or take care of themselves.
you know, those unborn children
who for some reason are not given the chance to survive due to
SELFISHNESS!!!
You have no idea why a person gets an abortion. Claiming that they are
"selfish" is foolish on your part.
Statistics show that the overwhelmeing majority
have one becasue they do not want the child.
That's not about being selfish. That's about PLANNING. Some people aren't
ready to be parents, and they shouldn't be.
That is just the most stupid excuse I have ever seen.
Then don't engage in behavior that my bring the risk of pregnancy!
We're back to this individual responsibility thing again.
Selfishness is what it's about, you can paint a rosy picture all you like,
but the facts show that the majority of women that have an abortion
are doing it for selfish reasons. Like I don't WANT a child
I CAN'T handle a child, It affects MY JOB/CARRER/EDUCATION
Notice how many times Me, My , and I are used in the reasoning.
It's never about the child is it?
6% are due to medical reasons,
that puts the other 94% in that selfish catagory
Your catagory is overly broad in my opinion. If a person is totally unable
to be a parent, why ought they be a parent?
Then put the child up for adoption,
there are lots of people who CANNOT have children that
would love the chance to be the parents these selfish women
don't WANT to be.
Did you go to any of the sites?
apparently not.
that is the vast majority of abortions today, and you damn
well know it.
You seem to "know it", but you don't have any facts to back you up.
I have plenty of facts
You haven't presented one yet.
Did you go to any of the sites?
apparently not.
You don't want the truth, you wanna be all comfortable
in your positions on the subject, so you stay away from that which blows
big holes in the way you think about these things.
I used to be like you when I was a teenager and in my early 20s, till I
educated myself about abortion.
I wanted to know more about it than what the liberal media told me at the
time.
It did not take long to realize that My thinking on the subject was so far
from reality
that I was honest with myself and realized that abortion is wrong, and will
never be
anything but the killing of an unborn child!
I know this becasue I chose to educate myself
Reading anti-abortion propaganda isn't educating yourself.
Reading pro-choice propaganda has not helped you in any of these arguments,
all they have done for you is allow you avoid the hard questions and focus
on only the smallest percentage of why women have abortions.
You have to read
and understand the other side to understand an issue.
But you have not demostrated any knowledge about this that one cannot find
on a pro-life website. I have seen both.
It also sharpens your
own viewpoints and arguments when you force yourself to actually consider
things from other viewpoints.
It has done nothing for you becasue you don't understand your own side of
the argument
much less my side. this is what I have been telling you for days.
I have been on BOTH sides of the argument.
I used to me much more "pro-choice" then I am
now. Learning the arguments and facts from your side and considering them
made me appreciate the pro-life cause a lot more, even if I still think
abortion ought to remain illegal.
about the topic, I have very strong feelings about abortion. they come
from
seeing the statistics
and knowing the difference between right and wrong.
Hey - that I understand.
You on the other hand have perfectly demonstrated the fact that you do
not
know anything about
this issue other than what you've heard from the media, and what you saw
in
a clinic.
I'm betting we're not that far apart in age, and I've been reading about
this subject since the late 1970's.
hint: go to google and type in Abortion statistics and see how many
hits
you get.
google is your friend.
it's a matter of convienence plain and simple. A convienence that
allows
you
to kill an
accident that probably could have been prevented in the first place
had
a
sense of responsibility...
Wow another concept which seem alien to you.
You toss out a lot of pointless insults for somebody who doesn't even
check
their own spelling
Try to be civil, eh?
I can't be civil to someone who thinks in such an uncivilized manner.
to you abortion is about a choice, to me it;s about running from one
and taking the easiest way out... kill it!
Making abortion illegal is impractical, and also un-democratic (as upper
middle class and rich folks would still get safe abortions).
Legal abortion is better for our country. Sure, I'd prefer it if people
were
responsible, and careful, or at least luckier. Heck - anybody willing to
kill their kid - ought that person at that time be a parent? Point it that
it's better overall to keep legal abortion then having more kids raised by
people who are unable to do the job.
Ugh, you and those like you have de-valued human life to the point that
pretty soon we'll be killing people for no other reason than, they
cause someone else to be unhappy.
this is tragic, but not suprising at all
If my wife had found one of our sons had Trisomy16, I'd have
said
to somebody "we had an abortion", not "so my wife got an
abortion".
See,
when you're married you are "of one flesh" according to the
Bible.
Of
course
it's doubtful you've ever been in a relationship, so it's
unfair
for
me
to
expect you to understand adult interpersonal relationship on
an
intimate
level.
Wrong I have three wonderful children 6, 9 and 10.
Then you ought to know better.
Did your wife decide to have the kids or did you all talk about
it?
We talked about it of course. becasue we were at that time commited
to
a
family.
Why are you trying to make it sound as though only married couples
have
abotrtions?
What were you attacking me about in the first place? Can't keep up
with
your
own line of attack? I was presuming that I had said something like
"Kerry
can support the freedom of legal abortion while personally opposing
abortion" or "Kerry has never had or paid for an abortion"
And you know this because?????? he says so??
Kerry has said he's against abortion, so I presume that he's never paid
for
or been involved with an abortion of a child of his. Any reports to the
contrary?
You assume to much about Kerry. You assume that Bush is a certain way
even though you have no proof.
That's hypocracy, plain and simple
.
|
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| User: "Brian Hoffmann" |
|
| Title: Re:Abracadabra knows nothing about abortion period! |
06 Aug 2004 07:08:38 AM |
|
|
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zRCQc.2086$nx2.226@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
2) Have you ever been inside an abortion clinic?
Yes, I have been to planned parenthood with a family member!
Great. Except Planned Parenthood isn't an abortion clinic.
Then tell me why these planned parenthood clinincs
where abortions are infact performed are not the planned parenthood you are
talking about!
Hell you've been to clinics, but I seem to know more about them than you.
http://www.charityadvantage.com/plannedparenthoodwaco/MedicalServices.asp
http://www.ppwesttexas.org/Health/medicalservices.htm
http://www.pphouston.org/site/PageServer?pagename=hsmain
here are three planned prenthood clinics that do perform abortions.
Your knowledge in this area is very lacking, very.
I would suggest you educate yourself further and understand more about
something you
don;t seem to at this point
3) Why ought the federal government be messing around in the choices
of
couples anyway?
.
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