| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Steve" |
| Date: |
27 Jun 2006 12:09:58 PM |
| Object: |
Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
How smart is the president? Here's the IQ of the last twelve presidents
over the past 50 years.
In IQ order:
182 - William Jefferson Clinton
175 - James Earle Carter
174 - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
155 - Richard Milhous Nixon
147 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
132 - Harry S Truman
126 - Lyndon Baines Johnson
122 - Dwight David Eisenhower
121 - Gerald R. Ford
105 - Ronald Wilson Reagan
098 - George Herbert Walker Bush
091 - George Walker Bush
Report published by The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania,
June 7, 2004. The institute has published its research to the
educational
community on each new president since 1973.
Ratings based on:
1. Scholarly achievements
2. Writings that they produced without aid of staff
3. Their ability to speak with clarity, and
4. Several other psychological factors which were then scored using
the
Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking.
It's all here:
http://wais.stanford.edu/Politics/politics_bush062704.htm
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 12:14:40 PM |
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(Steve) wrote in
news:1151428198.759067.163550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Report published by The Lovenstein Institute of Scranton,
Pennsylvania,
Bogus:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm
But you'll swallow anything, regardless of how transparently false it
is, so long as it conforms to your prejudices, right?
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 01:12:16 PM |
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The 'concept' of guessing at the IQ of a person is sound.
A simple example are the two Bush Presidents.
Daddy Bush is obviously far more intelligent than his son.
Bush Jr, is world famous for being quite likely, the least intelligent
person in relation to his power in history.
Other people could be named as the least intelligent man of fantastic
power of all time, but even when they are, Bush Jr is in competition.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 01:54:27 PM |
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() wrote in
news:1151431936.267809.271420@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
The 'concept' of guessing at the IQ of a person is sound.
But the cited list is entirely fake.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 02:35:18 PM |
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But the cited list is entirely fake.
Says who? Oh I know Snopes .. there's a trustworthy source lol.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:29:35 PM |
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How do you guess IQ?
That was easy back when you had to guess.
Advanced computer software now does it for you.
There is a long list of factors you can look at.
Fine examples are already mentioned.
The size of your vocabulary.
The writings you have done.
Nixon did a lot of it.
You can look at what people think about and how they spend their time.
When a person spends their free time doing things that require
intelligence it means they are intelligent.
Most people kill their free time watching TV.
Some people spend their free time making the 'perfect' bus schedule for
a major city.
While it is an 'odd' way to spend your time, it requires intelligence
anyway.
Writings alone are very useful.
First of all, the software has ALREADY studied writers from all over
the world through history.
In these writings, you get the size of their vocabulary.
You get the 'balance' of their writing style.
A simple example would be the adverb and adjective. More intelligent
people use a balance of those two. The ignorant tend to use only one or
the other. The use of punctuation matters.
The psychology of the person tells you tons.
A typical thing about super smart people is the nature of reality. This
is just math here. The smarter you are, the less people there are as
smart as yourself. Because of this, the super intelligent do not have a
'desire to feel smart'. A classic example of this would be on-line IQ
tests. The desire and interest comes from not already feeling smart. If
you were super smart, that is normal to you. When you are surrounded on
all sides at all times with people less intelligent than yourself, the
need for an IQ test to make you feel better does not exist.
An example would be Bush saying, "I am the decider." When a person is
profoundly secure in being a decider, it never comes to mind that they
need to inform people. 101 Psychology. He has a mental issue about
people always telling him what to do, so he needs to tell people that
is not the case. He 'assumes' people would think that to need to
mention it.
Shakespeare, Hawking, Homer, Plato, Da Vinci, on and on and on. Can you
tell if they are smart but what they write about? Obviously.
Then we get back to Bush Jr. He really stands out as a moron, because
besides people having a special need to lie for him, no one on any side
of him ever called him smart.
When he is done being President, no Republicans expect him to go teach
at Yale, or write geopolitical science papers. He will go back to his
'ranch', go boating, fishing, chop wood, chase frogs, and other things
at his mind level.
Lots of rightwingers hate Carter. I think of him as a brilliant man. He
spends his time and his interests on highbrow things. It is difficult
to drop an exact IQ number on people, but not hard to get a close
range.
Bill Clinton. Many people hate him.
Clinton received a Bachelor of Science in Foreign Service (B.S.F.S.)
degree from the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown
University in Washington D.C., was elected to Phi Beta Kappa and won a
Rhodes Scholarship to University College, Oxford. After Oxford, Clinton
obtained a Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree from Yale Law School in 1973.
Bill Clinton is a lot of things. Stupid is not one of them.
I am not saying Bush Jr is a retard. I think he is corrupt. He does
treacherous things. But it is not raw stupidity that motivates him.
Take Karl Rove. I do not know too much about him, but I know he is not
an idiot. They do not call him the brain for nothing. He is a cunning
and vicious *****.
I have never heard anyone call Cheney an idiot. He is also corrupt and
cunning, but he is not an idiot.
Bush Jr is kind of your mental regular Joe. On equal terms, all his
opponents are much smarter than he is. That is why he is the face man
for smarter people.
I would give Bush Jr a 100-110 IQ. That is not stupid among normal
people. But super intelligent people are so much smarter than that,
that it makes Bush much closer to a sign language gorilla than to
Leonardo Da Vinci, a man whose mind was so awesome, that he was not
only interested in everything, but advanced everything he was
interested in.
Some people love Bush and want to flatter him. I can understand that.
But compared to his historical peers, Bush Jr ranks at pretty much the
bottom.
He is nothing compared to a Hannibal, the Caesars, Cleopatra, on and
on.
Bush is beyond any doubt one of the most POWERFUL men who ever existed.
He could quite likely destroy our world if he wanted to flip out that
far. But his intelligence is only your typical person off the street.
To extremely intelligent people, it would be hard not to be frightened
by a man that simple, that corrupt, that disturbed, with his finger on
that much power.
The sooner he is back on the ranch chasing frogs, or executed for
orchestrating 9/11, the better.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 01:29:16 PM |
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guessing at the IQ of a person is sound.
How?
Did you not read the four criteria mentioned to achieve these
"estimates"?
The estimates were derived from a little more effort than pure guess
work.
But I agree, the "estimates" were no where's near perfect.
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| User: "Bill Habr" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 02:08:40 PM |
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Anybody with access to the internet can determine that there is no
"Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking" and that there is no
"Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania".
Furthermore, Bush's IQ can be approximated from his SAT to be around 125.
"Steve" <philhendrie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151428198.759067.163550@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
How smart is the president? Here's the IQ of the last twelve presidents
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 02:32:40 PM |
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Bill Habr wrote:
Anybody with access to the internet can determine that there is no
"Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking" and that there is no
"Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania".
Rubbish. Google Swanson/Crain and you'll find 1590 hits .. kinda high
for something that doesn't exist lol. But whether it is biased or how
accurate it is is still up for grabs.
Lovenstein Institute exists too:http://www.lovenstein.org/
I'm not qualifying these organizations as being reputable, but they
indeed do exist.
So next time you post b.s. at least make it a little difficult to
disprove.
Furthermore, Bush's IQ can be approximated from his SAT to be around 125.
By who? At least I cite sources.
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| User: "Bill Habr" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:51:41 PM |
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"Steve" <philhendrie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151436760.304522.32090@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Bill Habr wrote:
Anybody with access to the internet can determine that there is no
"Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking" and that there is no
"Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania".
Rubbish. Google Swanson/Crain and you'll find 1590 hits ..kinda high
for something that doesn't exist lol.
Google Swanson/Crain -bush and you get 19 hits
Google Swanson/Crain -bush (english only search) and you get 4 hits
Google stanford binet and you get 269,000 hits
But whether it is biased or how
accurate it is is still up for grabs.
Lovenstein Institute exists too:http://www.lovenstein.org/
The "institute" was started after the "study" came out.
I'm not qualifying these organizations as being reputable, but they
indeed do exist.
So next time you post b.s. at least make it a little difficult to
disprove.
Furthermore, Bush's IQ can be approximated from his SAT to be around
125.
By who? At least I cite sources.
At the time Bush took the SAT high IQ groups (Mensa for one) used the tests
as evidence of IQ there was a rough correlation between the SAT and various
IQ tests given Bush's SAT score it is rather simple to figure it out.
Google iq sat correlation
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| User: "Lloyd King" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:55:55 PM |
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"Steve" <philhendrie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151436760.304522.32090@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Bill Habr wrote:
Anybody with access to the internet can determine that there is no
"Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking" and that there is no
"Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania".
Rubbish. Google Swanson/Crain and you'll find 1590 hits .. kinda high
for something that doesn't exist lol.
ROTFL!!!
1590 hits, so you think that means it exists? Perhaps you should *read*
some of those websites. The first hit is snopes.com, which pronounces the
whole thing a hoax. The second site says:
"Also, there is no such thing as a "Swanson/Crain" intelligence test, "
And the rest of them pretty much agree.
LOL!
But whether it is biased or how
accurate it is is still up for grabs.
<chuckle> I'm sorta thinking your sanity is up for grabs.
Lovenstein Institute exists too:http://www.lovenstein.org/
ROTFL!! Wow! Someone put up a web site!
From snopes.com:
"The article quoted above began circulating on the Internet during the
summer of 2001. In furtherance of the hoax, later that year pranksters
thought to register www.lovenstein.org and erecting a web site around it in
an attempt to fool people into thinking there really was such an institute.
"
Hey - BTW - did you know that the word "gullible" is not really an English
word? That's right - there is no entry in any English dictionary for the
word "gullible". LOL!
I'm not qualifying these organizations as being reputable, but they
indeed do exist.
So next time you post b.s. at least make it a little difficult to
disprove.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Furthermore, Bush's IQ can be approximated from his SAT to be around 125.
By who? At least I cite sources.
<guffaw!>
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 04:04:44 PM |
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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over
and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the
propaganda." -President George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005
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| User: "Lloyd King" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 05:12:15 PM |
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<fastillion@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1151442284.516437.54050@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over
and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the
propaganda." -President George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005
If your argument is that Bush is a moron, well I'm right there with you.
But that IQ list was still a hoax.
Sorry.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 10:01:10 PM |
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Lloyd King wrote:
If your argument is that Bush is a moron, well I'm right there with you.
But that IQ list was still a hoax.
How do you know it was a hoax?? where's your proof?
No snopes is not a option.
Sorry.
ps Glad to hear you don't consider dubya as smart. There's hope.
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| User: "Lloyd King" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
28 Jun 2006 09:49:13 AM |
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"Steve" <philhendrie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151463670.107239.141560@d56g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd King wrote:
If your argument is that Bush is a moron, well I'm right there with you.
But that IQ list was still a hoax.
How do you know it was a hoax?? where's your proof?
No snopes is not a option.
Absolutely amazing.
Sorry.
ps Glad to hear you don't consider dubya as smart. There's hope.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 10:06:38 PM |
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Lloyd King wrote:
ROTFL!! Wow! Someone put up a web site!
Snopes is a web site. So are billions of others. Your point?
You think thorough research can not be conducted and posted online?
ROTFL!!!
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| User: "Lloyd King" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
28 Jun 2006 09:52:27 AM |
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"Steve" <philhendrie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151463998.402424.91690@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd King wrote:
ROTFL!! Wow! Someone put up a web site!
Snopes is a web site. So are billions of others. Your point?
My point is that some people just want so desperately to believe certain
things that they are willing to suspend all their critical thinking
capabilities to just blindly swallow whatever obviously ridiculous story
someone tells them, if it supports their prejudices.
You think thorough research can not be conducted and posted online?
You like straw, eh?
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:36:11 PM |
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(Steve) wrote in
news:1151436760.304522.32090@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
Rubbish. Google Swanson/Crain and you'll find 1590 hits .. kinda
high for something that doesn't exist lol. But whether it is biased
or how accurate it is is still up for grabs.
Lovenstein Institute exists too:http://www.lovenstein.org/
"The article quoted above began circulating on the Internet during
the summer of 2001. In furtherance of the hoax, later that year
pranksters thought to register www.lovenstein.org and erecting a web
site around it in an attempt to fool people into thinking there
really was such an institute."
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm
And, have you checked any of the hits you get on "Swanson/Crain"?
You'll find they're all in reference to this hoax.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:44:51 PM |
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The software I talk about has been used and is used all the time.
The examples that come to mind is that the way people write is a
fingerprint.
Various writers writing under an alias get identified because that
fingerprint is identical to their other writings under their real name.
Like the Una bomber.
When you scan his manifesto - you can match it to his writings in
normal life.
They use it to prove that various parts of the bible are not written by
the people normally thought. Because the fingerprints of different
parts do not match.
The same process has been used to suggest that Sir Francis Bacon wrote
the works of Shakespeare.
This software is old at this point.
It is no longer possible for a writer to write under an alias and not
be linked back to their real identity, unless of course the writer
deliberately hides his writing style for the exact purpose of cheating
this system. Someone that smart can do it. But you would have to do it
on purpose. Even then there would be a good chance to lock onto you.
From what I have heard, with only a little study of you speaking, they
can tell a lot about you. Where you were born, went to school, how much
education you had. It is pretty amazing.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 09:55:42 PM |
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From what I have heard, with only a little study of you speaking, they
can tell a lot about you. Where you were born, went to school, how much
education you had. It is pretty amazing.
Prolly yields a very fuzzy,vague estimate too.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:42:18 PM |
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Steve wrote:
Bill Habr wrote:
Anybody with access to the internet can determine that there is no
"Swanson/Crain system of intelligence ranking" and that there is no
"Lovenstein Institute of Scranton, Pennsylvania".
Rubbish. Google Swanson/Crain and you'll find 1590 hits .. kinda high
for something that doesn't exist lol.
Nope, "Loch Ness monster" has over 1,000,000 hits. That doesn' prove
"Nessie" exists.
- A. McIntire
But whether it is biased or how
accurate it is is still up for grabs.
- naw, it's an obvious fake, as anyone with an I.Q. over 91 would
realise.- A. McIntire
Lovenstein Institute exists too:http://www.lovenstein.org/
I'm not qualifying these organizations as being reputable, but they
indeed do exist.
No, they don't.- A. McIntire
(cut) Kennedy's I.Q. was reported in " Newsweek" as 119.
Bush scored 1206 on his SAT. He was born in 1946, so would have take
the test during the 1963-1964 school year. Based on correlation
between SATs and I.Q., his I.Q. would be in the mid 120s- A. McIntire
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 09:54:02 PM |
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wrote:
Nope, "Loch Ness monster" has over 1,000,000 hits. That doesn' prove
"Nessie" exists.
More rubbish.
Online Presidential I.Q. sources do exist.
Does snopes exist?
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 01:21:04 PM |
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Same list with my views added
182 - William Jefferson Clinton
ExtrEEEEmely high! I knew Bill was extremely bright, but wowsers!
175 - James Earle Carter
Extremely high. Didn't know Carter was actually this bright. Bravo
Jimmy!
174 - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
I don't think this is right at all. JFK was way overrated in many
respects.
He a lot of crazy sh*t including:
"We do things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."
..so banging your head against a (hard) wall is the right thing to
do?
"No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
..duh! rewritten: "we will become what we will become."
"When one man is enslaved, all are not free."
.. What? So freeing a heinous inmate will improve everyone else's
life?
"A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences,
in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures."
.. so nothing is impossible?
(JFK read a lot .. & apparently watched too many movies.)
"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor,
it cannot save the few who are rich."
.. so robbing Peter to pay Paul enhances Peter's life.
.. and the wealthy need to be saved. Bill Gates needs saving.
Gates is far worse off than those busy dying on skid row.
155 - Richard Milhous Nixon - 15 points too high
147 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt - Too high IMHO.
132 - Harry S Truman - Although 132 isn't all that high,
still, Hothead Harry wasn't near this smart.
126 - Lyndon Baines Johnson - tho LBJ did some nutty things
he was a bit smarter than 126 IMHO
122 - Dwight David Eisenhower - bland in I.Q. too
121 - Gerald R. Ford
LBJ once said that Ford was too dumb to chew gum and fart at the
same time.
105 - Ronald Wilson Reagan - Ronnie ranks low (any surprises here?)
098 - George Herbert Walker Bush - I knew Sr. wasn't the brightest bulb
in the chandelier, but didn't know he was this dim.
091 - George Walker Bush - lowbrow of lowbrow Presidents (any surprises
here?)
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 01:37:43 PM |
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Bogus:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm
But you'll swallow anything, regardless of how transparently false it
is, so long as it conforms to your prejudices, right?
No. First who's to say I believe this list?
But true, I don't believe Dubya is smart, whether I'm a Republican,
Green Party or Demo.
Dumb is dumb.
I don't swallow Snopes either. Do I sense a little hypocricy. A-ha.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 01:43:44 PM |
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The real question is how biased: Lovenstein Institute of Pennsylvania
is, how biased Swanson/Crain system of intelligence is and how biased
Snopes is.
Snopes fails the sniff test, but still, not taking bets.
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| User: "Lloyd King" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya Bush at Bottom of I.Q. List |
27 Jun 2006 03:48:34 PM |
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"Steve" <philhendrie@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151433824.360145.327500@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The real question is how biased: Lovenstein Institute of Pennsylvania
is, how biased Swanson/Crain system of intelligence is and how biased
Snopes is.
The first question you might want to start with is: does the "Lovenstein
Institute of Pennsylvania" even exist? (hint: No.)
Snopes fails the sniff test, but still, not taking bets.
Snopes fails the sniff test? What does that mean?
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