| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Riddick" |
| Date: |
08 Oct 2004 10:42:06 PM |
| Object: |
Dubya's hydrogen car [smirk] |
Hydrogen's Dirty Secret
President Bush promises that fuel-cell cars will be free of pollution.
But if he has his way, the cars of tomorrow will run on hydrogen made
from fossil fuels.
By Barry C. Lynn
May/June 2003 Issue
When President Bush unveiled his plans for a hydrogen-powered car in
his State of the Union address in January, he proposed $1.2 billion in
spending to develop a revolutionary automobile that will be
"pollution-free." The new vehicle, he declared, will rely on "a simple
chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen" to power a car
"producing only water, not exhaust fumes." Within 20 years, the
president vowed, fuel-cell cars will "make our air significantly
cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of
oil."
By launching an ambitious program to develop what he calls the
"Freedom Car," Bush seemed determined to realize the kind of future
that hydrogen-car supporters have envisioned for years. Using existing
technology, hydrogen can be easily and cleanly extracted from water.
Electricity generated by solar panels and wind turbines is used to
split the water's hydrogen atoms from its oxygen atoms. The hydrogen
is then recombined with oxygen in fuel cells, where it releases
electrons that drive an electric motor in a car. What Bush didn't
reveal in his nationwide address, however, is that his administration
has been working quietly to ensure that the system used to produce
hydrogen will be as fossil fuel-dependent -- and potentially as dirty
-- as the one that fuels today's SUVs. According to the
administration's National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap, drafted last year
in concert with the energy industry, up to 90 percent of all hydrogen
will be refined from oil, natural gas, and other fossil fuels -- in a
process using energy generated by burning oil, coal, and natural gas.
The remaining 10 percent will be cracked from water using nuclear
energy.
Such a system, experts say, would effectively eliminate most of the
benefits offered by hydrogen. Although the fuel-cell cars themselves
may emit nothing but water vapor, the process of producing the fuel
cells from hydrocarbons will continue America's dependence on fossil
fuels and leave behind carbon dioxide, the primary cause of global
warming.
Mike Nicklas, chair of the American Solar Energy Society, was one of
224 energy experts invited by the Department of Energy to develop the
government's Roadmap last spring. The sessions, environmentalists
quickly discovered, were dominated by representatives from the oil,
coal, and nuclear industries. "All the emphasis was on how the process
would benefit traditional energy industries," recalls Nicklas, who sat
on a committee chaired by an executive from ChevronTexaco. "The whole
meeting had been staged to get a particular result, which was a plan
to extract hydrogen from fossil fuels and not from renewables." The
plan does not call for a single ounce of hydrogen to come from power
generated by the sun or the wind, concluding that such technologies
"need further development for hydrogen production to be more cost
competitive."
But instead of investing in developing those sources, the budget that
Bush submitted to Congress pays scant attention to renewable methods
of producing hydrogen. More than half of all hydrogen funding is
earmarked for automakers and the energy industry. Under the
president's plan, more than $22 million of hydrogen research for 2004
will be devoted to coal, nuclear power, and natural gas, compared with
$17 million for renewable sources. Overall funding for renewable
research and energy conservation, meanwhile, will be slashed by more
than $86 million. "Cutting R&D for renewable sources and replacing
them with fossil and nuclear doesn't make for a sustainable approach,"
says Jason Mark, director of the clean vehicles program for the Union
of Concerned Scientists.
The oil and chemical industries already produce 9 million tons of
hydrogen each year, most of it from natural gas, and transport it
through hundreds of miles of pipelines to fuel the space shuttle and
to remove sulfur from petroleum refineries. The administration's plan
lays the groundwork to expand that infrastructure -- guaranteeing that
oil and gas companies will profit from any transition to hydrogen.
Lauren Segal, general manager of hydrogen development for BP, puts it
succinctly: "We view hydrogen as a way to really grow our natural-gas
business."
To protect its fuel franchise, the energy industry has moved swiftly
in recent years to shape government policy toward hydrogen. In 1999,
oil companies and automakers began attending the meetings of an
obscure group called the National Hydrogen Association. Founded in
1989 by scientists from government labs and universities, the
association was a haven for many of the small companies -- fuel-cell
designers, electrolyzer makers -- that were dabbling in hydrogen
power. The group promoted the use of hydrogen but was careful not to
take any position on who would make the fuel or how.
All that changed once the energy industry got involved. "All of a
sudden Shell joined our board, and then the interest grew very
quickly," says Karen Miller, the association's vice president. "Our
chair last year was from BP; this year our chair is from
ChevronTexaco." The companies quickly began to use the association as
a platform to lobby for more federal funding for research, and to push
the government to emphasize fossil fuels in the national energy plan
for hydrogen. Along with the big automakers, energy companies also
formed a consortium called the International Hydrogen Infrastructure
Group to monitor federal officials charged with developing fuel cells.
"Basically," says Neil Rossmeissl, a hydrogen standards expert at the
Department of Energy, "what they do is look over our shoulder at doe
to make sure we are doing what they think is the right thing."
As hydrogen gained momentum, the oil companies rushed to buy up
interests in technology companies developing ways to refine and store
the new fuel. Texaco has invested $82 million in a firm called Energy
Conversion Devices, and Shell now owns half of Hydrogen Source. BP,
Chevron-Texaco, ExxonMobil, Ford, and General Electric have also
locked up the services of many of America's top energy scientists,
devoting more than $270 million to hydrogen research at MIT,
Princeton, and Stanford.
Such funding will help ensure that oil and gas producers continue to
profit even if automakers manage to put millions of fuel-cell cars on
the road. "The major energy companies have several hundred billions of
dollars, at the least, invested in their businesses, and there is a
real interest in keeping and utilizing that infrastructure in the
future," says Frank Ingriselli, former president of Texaco Technology
Ventures. "And these companies certainly have the balance sheets and
wherewithal to make it happen."
The stakes in the current battle over hydrogen are high. Devoting the
bulk of federal research funding to making hydrogen from fossil fuels
rather than water will enable oil and gas companies to provide
lower-priced hydrogen. That, in turn, means that pipelines built to
transport hydrogen will stretch to, say, a BP gas field in Canada,
rather than an independent wind farm in North Dakota. Even if the rest
of the world switches to hydrogen manufactured from water, says
Nicklas, "Americans may end up dependent on fossil fuels for
generations."
The administration's plans to manufacture hydrogen from fossil fuels
could also contribute to global warming by leaving behind carbon
dioxide. Oil and coal companies insist they will be able to
"sequester" the carbon permanently by pumping it deep into the ocean
or underground. But the doe calls such approaches "very high risk,"
and no one knows how much that would cost, how much other
environmental disruption that might cause, or whether that would
actually work. "Which path we take will have a huge effect one way or
the other on the total amount of carbon pumped into the atmosphere
over the next century," says James MacKenzie, a physicist with the
World Resources Institute.
Even if industry manages to safely contain the carbon left behind, the
Bush administration's plan to extract hydrogen from fossil fuels will
wind up wasting energy. John Heywood, director of MIT's Sloan
Automotive Lab, says a system that extracts hydrogen from oil and
natural gas and stores it in fuel cells would actually be no more
energy efficient than America's present gasoline- based system.
"If the hydrogen does not come from renewable sources," Heywood says,
"then it is simply not worth doing, environmentally or economically."
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/05/ma_375_01.html
.
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| User: "PolicySpy" |
|
| Title: Re: Dubya's hydrogen car [smirk] |
10 Oct 2004 10:07:59 AM |
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Hydrogen's Dirty Secret
Yeah, it takes electricity to get hydrogen out of water and most electricity
is produced by burning coal...
The solution to cars producing less pollution and using less fuel are cars
with stronger frames. In other words the solution is in the structure of the
car and not in the powerplant.
How, why ? A car can have a frame that approximates the shape of the car. So
a lower frame rail shares the load with an upper frame rail and thus no
section of the frame is very large but the entire multi-braced frame is very
strong. First imagine all the holes and spacing between the frame rails for
weight efficiency and next imagine a lightweight bodywork covering the
frame. Note the frame must be strong but the bodywork only needs the
strength to stand up to the force of the wind. Weight savings over unibody
cars can be 30% or more. Now cars with 30% less weight can use engines 30%
smaller and maintain performance expectations but use 30% less fuel and make
30% less pollution.
What's the catch ? Well, space frames (or triangulated frames) are
difficult to manufacture. Lightweight bodywork might give an external
impression of something inferior. And vehicles with strong frames tend to
bounce off impacts rather than absorb impacts. Well, cars manufactured in
this way can be call utltralights...
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya's hydrogen car [smirk] |
10 Oct 2004 12:53:41 PM |
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PolicySpy wrote:
Hydrogen's Dirty Secret
Yeah, it takes electricity to get hydrogen out of water and most electricity
is produced by burning coal...
The solution to cars producing less pollution and using less fuel are cars
with stronger frames. In other words the solution is in the structure of the
car and not in the powerplant.
How, why ? A car can have a frame that approximates the shape of the car. So
a lower frame rail shares the load with an upper frame rail and thus no
section of the frame is very large but the entire multi-braced frame is very
strong. First imagine all the holes and spacing between the frame rails for
weight efficiency and next imagine a lightweight bodywork covering the
frame. Note the frame must be strong but the bodywork only needs the
strength to stand up to the force of the wind. Weight savings over unibody
cars can be 30% or more. Now cars with 30% less weight can use engines 30%
smaller and maintain performance expectations but use 30% less fuel and make
30% less pollution.
What's the catch ? Well, space frames (or triangulated frames) are
difficult to manufacture. Lightweight bodywork might give an external
impression of something inferior. And vehicles with strong frames tend to
bounce off impacts rather than absorb impacts. Well, cars manufactured in
this way can be call utltralights...
And those type frames, like aircraft frames, are very strong until
compromised, but once compromised they fold and tear like paper.
.
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| User: "PolicySpy" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya's hydrogen car [smirk] |
10 Oct 2004 02:21:16 PM |
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And those type frames, like aircraft frames, are very strong until
compromised, but once compromised they fold and tear like paper.
Well, I am suggesting a pipe (or channel) frame with an un-stressed
bodywork. The frame rails are smaller than expected because lower frame
rails share the load with upper frame rails and because of other bracing.
Note that having upper frame rails allows for a large number of bodywork
attachment points and thus the bodywork can be lightweight. However, the
bodywork makes the shape of the car not the frame.
Modern aircraft have stressed skins in that the skin is riveted directly to
the frame rails (spars). Since the skin triangulates the spars then the
spars can be smaller than expected. The problem here is that the frame
itself makes the shape of the vehicle...
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| User: "Ray Laughton" |
|
| Title: Re: Dubya's hydrogen car [smirk] |
10 Oct 2004 06:29:39 PM |
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Riddick <riddick_02@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hydrogen's Dirty Secret
President Bush promises that fuel-cell cars will be free of pollution.
But if he has his way, the cars of tomorrow will run on hydrogen made
from fossil fuels.
By Barry C. Lynn
May/June 2003 Issue
Power plants can burn oil, but there are other options like coal,
natural gas and nuclear power. With cars we've had no other options up
to now. A big difference, which could kill the dependence on arab oil.
The other point is: These discussions are always started before
elections, I recall discussions about using hydrogen as a fuel source in
the mid 70's... Either way, puppets of Big Oil like Bush will be never
push through real reforms to reduce our dependence on the Middle East.
RL
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| User: "Bees Nest" |
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| Title: Re: Dubya's hydrogen car [smirk] |
09 Oct 2004 03:38:05 PM |
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Why not use cellulose ethenol?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cellulose+ethanol&spell=1
The paid posters are working overtime. Oops, forgot,
Bush got rid of overtime for minimum wage earners.
Go Bush!
Go Diebold!
Rig those voting machines in Bushes Favor!
Let keep some Bush in the White House forever!
Lord knows he can't win on his own!!!!!!!!!!!
It's so simple even DUHbya could rig it, see for
yourself.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/baxter/VNR92204.mov
Proof?
Diebold CEO Walden O'Dell has bundled $100,000 or more
in contributions for George W. Bush. O'Dell and his
wife have given $19,965 to GOP candidates and campaign
entities, nothing to Democrats. A letter was revealed
in which he said he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver
its electoral votes to the President"in November.
Where there is smoke there is fire!
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=voting+machines+owned+by+republicans&btnG=Search
I'll stop posting this when they install printers for these machines.
liberals suck but conservatives swallow.
Republicans whine and Republicans *****:
"Our rich are too poor, and our poor are too rich"
"The unaware are unaware that they are unaware."
Merril M.E. Jenkins Sr
"How fortunate for governments that the people they
administer don't think." Adolf Hitler
"The next time they give you all that civic *****
about voting, keep in mind that Hitler was elected in
a full, free democratic election" George Carlin
"God told me to strike at al-Qaeda and I struck them,
and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which
I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem
in the Middle East." George W Bush
On 8 Oct 2004 20:42:06 -0700, (Riddick) wrote:
Hydrogen's Dirty Secret
President Bush promises that fuel-cell cars will be free of pollution.
But if he has his way, the cars of tomorrow will run on hydrogen made
from fossil fuels.
By Barry C. Lynn
May/June 2003 Issue
When President Bush unveiled his plans for a hydrogen-powered car in
his State of the Union address in January, he proposed $1.2 billion in
spending to develop a revolutionary automobile that will be
"pollution-free." The new vehicle, he declared, will rely on "a simple
chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen" to power a car
"producing only water, not exhaust fumes." Within 20 years, the
president vowed, fuel-cell cars will "make our air significantly
cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of
oil."
By launching an ambitious program to develop what he calls the
"Freedom Car," Bush seemed determined to realize the kind of future
that hydrogen-car supporters have envisioned for years. Using existing
technology, hydrogen can be easily and cleanly extracted from water.
Electricity generated by solar panels and wind turbines is used to
split the water's hydrogen atoms from its oxygen atoms. The hydrogen
is then recombined with oxygen in fuel cells, where it releases
electrons that drive an electric motor in a car. What Bush didn't
reveal in his nationwide address, however, is that his administration
has been working quietly to ensure that the system used to produce
hydrogen will be as fossil fuel-dependent -- and potentially as dirty
-- as the one that fuels today's SUVs. According to the
administration's National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap, drafted last year
in concert with the energy industry, up to 90 percent of all hydrogen
will be refined from oil, natural gas, and other fossil fuels -- in a
process using energy generated by burning oil, coal, and natural gas.
The remaining 10 percent will be cracked from water using nuclear
energy.
Such a system, experts say, would effectively eliminate most of the
benefits offered by hydrogen. Although the fuel-cell cars themselves
may emit nothing but water vapor, the process of producing the fuel
cells from hydrocarbons will continue America's dependence on fossil
fuels and leave behind carbon dioxide, the primary cause of global
warming.
Mike Nicklas, chair of the American Solar Energy Society, was one of
224 energy experts invited by the Department of Energy to develop the
government's Roadmap last spring. The sessions, environmentalists
quickly discovered, were dominated by representatives from the oil,
coal, and nuclear industries. "All the emphasis was on how the process
would benefit traditional energy industries," recalls Nicklas, who sat
on a committee chaired by an executive from ChevronTexaco. "The whole
meeting had been staged to get a particular result, which was a plan
to extract hydrogen from fossil fuels and not from renewables." The
plan does not call for a single ounce of hydrogen to come from power
generated by the sun or the wind, concluding that such technologies
"need further development for hydrogen production to be more cost
competitive."
But instead of investing in developing those sources, the budget that
Bush submitted to Congress pays scant attention to renewable methods
of producing hydrogen. More than half of all hydrogen funding is
earmarked for automakers and the energy industry. Under the
president's plan, more than $22 million of hydrogen research for 2004
will be devoted to coal, nuclear power, and natural gas, compared with
$17 million for renewable sources. Overall funding for renewable
research and energy conservation, meanwhile, will be slashed by more
than $86 million. "Cutting R&D for renewable sources and replacing
them with fossil and nuclear doesn't make for a sustainable approach,"
says Jason Mark, director of the clean vehicles program for the Union
of Concerned Scientists.
The oil and chemical industries already produce 9 million tons of
hydrogen each year, most of it from natural gas, and transport it
through hundreds of miles of pipelines to fuel the space shuttle and
to remove sulfur from petroleum refineries. The administration's plan
lays the groundwork to expand that infrastructure -- guaranteeing that
oil and gas companies will profit from any transition to hydrogen.
Lauren Segal, general manager of hydrogen development for BP, puts it
succinctly: "We view hydrogen as a way to really grow our natural-gas
business."
To protect its fuel franchise, the energy industry has moved swiftly
in recent years to shape government policy toward hydrogen. In 1999,
oil companies and automakers began attending the meetings of an
obscure group called the National Hydrogen Association. Founded in
1989 by scientists from government labs and universities, the
association was a haven for many of the small companies -- fuel-cell
designers, electrolyzer makers -- that were dabbling in hydrogen
power. The group promoted the use of hydrogen but was careful not to
take any position on who would make the fuel or how.
All that changed once the energy industry got involved. "All of a
sudden Shell joined our board, and then the interest grew very
quickly," says Karen Miller, the association's vice president. "Our
chair last year was from BP; this year our chair is from
ChevronTexaco." The companies quickly began to use the association as
a platform to lobby for more federal funding for research, and to push
the government to emphasize fossil fuels in the national energy plan
for hydrogen. Along with the big automakers, energy companies also
formed a consortium called the International Hydrogen Infrastructure
Group to monitor federal officials charged with developing fuel cells.
"Basically," says Neil Rossmeissl, a hydrogen standards expert at the
Department of Energy, "what they do is look over our shoulder at doe
to make sure we are doing what they think is the right thing."
As hydrogen gained momentum, the oil companies rushed to buy up
interests in technology companies developing ways to refine and store
the new fuel. Texaco has invested $82 million in a firm called Energy
Conversion Devices, and Shell now owns half of Hydrogen Source. BP,
Chevron-Texaco, ExxonMobil, Ford, and General Electric have also
locked up the services of many of America's top energy scientists,
devoting more than $270 million to hydrogen research at MIT,
Princeton, and Stanford.
Such funding will help ensure that oil and gas producers continue to
profit even if automakers manage to put millions of fuel-cell cars on
the road. "The major energy companies have several hundred billions of
dollars, at the least, invested in their businesses, and there is a
real interest in keeping and utilizing that infrastructure in the
future," says Frank Ingriselli, former president of Texaco Technology
Ventures. "And these companies certainly have the balance sheets and
wherewithal to make it happen."
The stakes in the current battle over hydrogen are high. Devoting the
bulk of federal research funding to making hydrogen from fossil fuels
rather than water will enable oil and gas companies to provide
lower-priced hydrogen. That, in turn, means that pipelines built to
transport hydrogen will stretch to, say, a BP gas field in Canada,
rather than an independent wind farm in North Dakota. Even if the rest
of the world switches to hydrogen manufactured from water, says
Nicklas, "Americans may end up dependent on fossil fuels for
generations."
The administration's plans to manufacture hydrogen from fossil fuels
could also contribute to global warming by leaving behind carbon
dioxide. Oil and coal companies insist they will be able to
"sequester" the carbon permanently by pumping it deep into the ocean
or underground. But the doe calls such approaches "very high risk,"
and no one knows how much that would cost, how much other
environmental disruption that might cause, or whether that would
actually work. "Which path we take will have a huge effect one way or
the other on the total amount of carbon pumped into the atmosphere
over the next century," says James MacKenzie, a physicist with the
World Resources Institute.
Even if industry manages to safely contain the carbon left behind, the
Bush administration's plan to extract hydrogen from fossil fuels will
wind up wasting energy. John Heywood, director of MIT's Sloan
Automotive Lab, says a system that extracts hydrogen from oil and
natural gas and stores it in fuel cells would actually be no more
energy efficient than America's present gasoline- based system.
"If the hydrogen does not come from renewable sources," Heywood says,
"then it is simply not worth doing, environmentally or economically."
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/05/ma_375_01.html
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