| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Roedy Green" |
| Date: |
28 Feb 2004 09:52:52 PM |
| Object: |
Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St
Bacchus.
In other words, it confirms what the earlier icon implies,
that they were homosexual couple. Unusually their
orientation and relationship was openly accepted by early
Christian writers. Furthermore, in an image that to some
modern Christian eyes might border on blasphemy, the icon
has Christ himself as their pronubus, their best man
overseeing their "marriage".
The very idea of a Christian homosexual marriage seems
incredible. Yet after a 12-year search of Catholic and
Orthodox church archives Yale history professor John Boswell
has discovered that a type of Christian homosexual
"marriage" did exist as late as the 18th century.
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not
been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has evolved
both as a concept and as a ritual. Prof Boswell discovered
that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in
ancient church liturgical documents (and clearly separate
from other types of non-marital blessings such as blessings
of adopted children or land) were ceremonies called, among
other titles, the "Office of Same Sex Union" (10th and 11th
century Greek) or the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and
12th century).
These ceremonies had all the contemporary symbols of a
marriage: a community gathered in church, a blessing of the
couple before the altar, their right hands joined as at
heterosexual marriages, the participation of a priest, the
taking of the Eucharist, a wedding banquet afterwards. All
of which are shown in contemporary drawings of the same sex
union of Byzantine
Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his companion John. Such
homosexual unions also took place in Ireland in the late
12th/early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales
(Geraldus Cambrensis) has recorded.
Boswell's book, The Marriage of Likeness: Same Sex Unions in
Pre- Modern Europe, lists in detail some same sex union
ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One
Greek 13th century "Order for Solemnisation of Same Sex
Union" having invoked St Serge and St Bacchus, called on God
to "vouchsafe unto these thy servants [N and N] grace to
love one another and to abide unhated and not a cause of
scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the
Holy Mother of God and all thy saints." The ceremony
concludes: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each
other, and it shall be concluded."
Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of Same Sex
Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple having
their right hands laid on the Gospel while having a cross
placed in their left hands. Having kissed the Gospel, the
couple were then required to kiss each other, after which
the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them
both communion.
Boswell found records of same-sex unions in such diverse
archives as those in the Vatican, in St Petersburg, in
Paris, Istanbul, and in Sinai, covering a period from the
8th to the 18th centuries. Nor is he the first to make such
a discovery. The Dominican Jacques Goar (1601-1653) includes
such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek prayer
books.
While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman
times, it was only from about the 14th century that
anti-homosexual feelings swept western Europe. Yet same sex
union ceremonies continued to take place.
At St John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish
Church) in 1578 as many as 13 couples were "married" at Mass
with the apparent co-operation of the local clergy, "taking
Communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after
which they slept and ate together", according to a
contemporary report.
Another woman-to-woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the
18th century. Many questionable historical claims about the
church have been made by some recent writers in this
newspaper.
Boswell's academic study however is so well researched and
sourced as to pose fundamental questions for both modern
church leaders and heterosexual Christians about their
attitude towards homosexuality.
FOR the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives
would be a cowardly cop-out. That evidence shows
convincingly that what the modern church claims has been its
constant unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is in
fact nothing of the sort.
It proves that for much of the last two millennia, in parish
churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom from Ireland
to Istanbul and in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual
relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a
God-given ability to love and commit to another person, a
love that could be celebrated, honoured and blessed both in
the name of, and through the Eucharist in the presence of
Jesus Christ.
--------
Jim Duffy is a writer and historian. The Marriage of
Likeness: Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by John
Boswell is published by Harper Collins.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679751645/canadianmindprod
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
.
|
|
| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
28 Feb 2004 11:57:26 PM |
|
|
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
.
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|
| User: "General Urko" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 12:19:51 AM |
|
|
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:LNCdnVItqpbE4tzd4p2dnA@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
Just another ignorant imbecile unable to fathom anything outside of the
simple cookie cutter reality he's constructed in his pitiful pea brain.
Since you can't refute the reality of the evidence presented, you try
character assassination. Even at this you suck.
.
|
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| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 12:39:17 AM |
|
|
"General Urko" <nexuschristos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bwf0c.26443$hm4.18548@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:LNCdnVItqpbE4tzd4p2dnA@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
Just another ignorant imbecile unable to fathom anything outside of the
simple cookie cutter reality he's constructed in his pitiful pea brain.
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
.
|
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| User: "Paul Revere" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
02 Mar 2004 03:54:29 PM |
|
|
In article <McadncLhR7O1FNzdRVn-hQ@sti.net>, "Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote:
"General Urko" <nexuschristos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bwf0c.26443$hm4.18548@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:LNCdnVItqpbE4tzd4p2dnA@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
Just another ignorant imbecile unable to fathom anything outside of the
simple cookie cutter reality he's constructed in his pitiful pea brain.
Saint John i
s usually the one fags fixate on.
Where do you get your intimate knowledge of "fags" and what they fixate on?
.
|
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| User: "The,Frog.,." |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
02 Mar 2004 04:56:33 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:54:29 GMT, (Paul Revere)
wrote:
In article <McadncLhR7O1FNzdRVn-hQ@sti.net>, "Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote:
"General Urko" <nexuschristos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bwf0c.26443$hm4.18548@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:LNCdnVItqpbE4tzd4p2dnA@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
Just another ignorant imbecile unable to fathom anything outside of the
simple cookie cutter reality he's constructed in his pitiful pea brain.
Saint John i
s usually the one fags fixate on.
Where do you get your intimate knowledge of "fags" and what they fixate on?
All anyone need do is to watch the posts of the over represented
homosexual population that posts to this political newsgroup.
Of course, if you say anything, you must be a "hmophobic bigot" or
some other made up name that they believe anyone actually cares about.
Just read.......
Liberalism is Communism one drink at a time. - P.J. O'Rourke
.
|
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| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
02 Mar 2004 05:37:52 PM |
|
|
"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h54a40p3tk83b1cqm9tib5ev487gjd1lmq@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:54:29 GMT, (Paul Revere)
wrote:
In article <McadncLhR7O1FNzdRVn-hQ@sti.net>, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote:
"General Urko" <nexuschristos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bwf0c.26443$hm4.18548@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:LNCdnVItqpbE4tzd4p2dnA@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
Just another ignorant imbecile unable to fathom anything outside of
the
simple cookie cutter reality he's constructed in his pitiful pea
brain.
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
Where do you get your intimate knowledge of "fags" and what they fixate
on?
All anyone need do is to watch the posts of the over represented
homosexual population that posts to this political newsgroup.
Of course, if you say anything, you must be a "hmophobic bigot" or
some other made up name that they believe anyone actually cares about.
Just read.......
Fags are the most homophobic people on earth.
.
|
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| User: "Steveo" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
03 Mar 2004 09:23:55 AM |
|
|
Tarver Engineering wrote:
"The,Frog.,." <meme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:h54a40p3tk83b1cqm9tib5ev487gjd1lmq@4ax.com...
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:54:29 GMT, (Paul Revere)
wrote:
In article <McadncLhR7O1FNzdRVn-hQ@sti.net>, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote:
"General Urko" <nexuschristos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bwf0c.26443$hm4.18548@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:LNCdnVItqpbE4tzd4p2dnA@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:9tn240dju1nck721l9mh0nf2ial6a2hs0q@4ax.com...
http://www.drizzle.com/~slmndr/salamandir/pubs/irishtimes/opt3.htm
When marriage between gays was by rite
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RITE AND REASON: A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon
from St Catherine's monastery on Mount Sinai. It shows two
robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman
pronubus (best man) overseeing what in a standard Roman icon
would be the wedding of a husband and wife. In the icon,
Christ is the pronubus. Only one thing is unusual. The
"husband and wife" are in fact two men.
Is the icon suggesting that a homosexual "marriage" is one
sanctified by Christ? The very idea initially seems
shocking. The full answer comes from other sources about the
two men featured, St Serge and St Bacchus, two Roman
soldiers who became Christian martyrs.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early
Church, was not unusual, the association of these two men
was regarded as particularly close. Severus of Antioch in
the sixth century explained that "we should not separate in
speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life". More
bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of
their lives, St Serge is openly described as the "sweet
companion and lover" of St Bacchus.
Just another fag trying to project his lust on to others.
Just another ignorant imbecile unable to fathom anything outside of
the
simple cookie cutter reality he's constructed in his pitiful pea
brain.
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
Where do you get your intimate knowledge of "fags" and what they fixate
on?
All anyone need do is to watch the posts of the over represented
homosexual population that posts to this political newsgroup.
Of course, if you say anything, you must be a "hmophobic bigot" or
some other made up name that they believe anyone actually cares about.
Just read.......
Fags are the most homophobic people on earth.
Are you coming out of the closet, Johnnie Boy?
--
As people do better, they start voting like Republicans -- unless
they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there
can be too much of a good thing.
-- Karl Rove, The New Yorker, 02/16/2001
.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 12:56:21 AM |
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|
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:39:17 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
.
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| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 01:28:53 AM |
|
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"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:783340hverg4vpeoph8u0hctp7vk4pu5h7@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:39:17 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
.
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| User: "General Urko" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 02:14:02 PM |
|
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"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:WsGdnR8OJvcmCdzdRVn-sQ@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:783340hverg4vpeoph8u0hctp7vk4pu5h7@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:39:17 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
Your boa is showing...
.
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| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 02:32:52 PM |
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"General Urko" <nexuschristos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eKr0c.26859$W74.18142@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:WsGdnR8OJvcmCdzdRVn-sQ@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:783340hverg4vpeoph8u0hctp7vk4pu5h7@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:39:17 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
Your boa is showing...
Either way, I'd be happy in Christ.
.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
|
| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 05:24:26 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:28:53 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
People who are secure in their sexuality don't bolster their egos by
calling other people fags. They don't feel threatened by other people
being a little different from them. You have a bully mentality.
Bullies are not secure. That is why they bully.
See http://mindprod.com/ggloss/fag.html
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
.
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| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 05:34:59 PM |
|
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"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:62t4401cjm2a36t8qj0c82j36r8gpr1d51@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:28:53 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
People who are secure in their sexuality don't bolster their egos by
calling other people fags.
Sure we do.
No special rights for lifestyle choices, no matter how politically correct.
I remember the women around Pac Bell talking in the 1970s about how they
remembered when the office followed the Black is beautiful line.
Homosexuals have pused the gay marriage issue through civil disobediance and
now action is comming.
We have to live here too.
.
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| User: "Ashland Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 09:41:47 PM |
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"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message news:<peCdnQo9c9S26t_dRVn-ug@sti.net>...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:62t4401cjm2a36t8qj0c82j36r8gpr1d51@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:28:53 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
People who are secure in their sexuality don't bolster their egos by
calling other people fags.
Sure we do.
Well actually no, you don't. Referring to other people by derogatory names
generally indicates internal feelings of insecurity that need to be bolstered
by putting down others.
No special rights for lifestyle choices, no matter how politically correct.
I remember the women around Pac Bell talking in the 1970s about how they
remembered when the office followed the Black is beautiful line.
Homosexuals have pused the gay marriage issue through civil disobediance and
now action is comming.
No one has asked for special rights. But then you wouldn't understand
that.
We have to live here too.
Yeah. Unfortunate but true. The only real hope is that in the long run
you and your ilk will learn something of people and the world. It's probably
too late for you but there's always hope for the next generation.
.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 06:01:27 PM |
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On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:34:59 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
No special rights for lifestyle choices,
huh? What special rights? We gays want the SAME rights as everyone
else. You are trying to pass a constitutional amendment to make us
second class citizens. You make no bones about why. You consider us
scum so discrimination is justified.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
.
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| User: "Tarver Engineering" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
29 Feb 2004 06:17:47 PM |
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"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:j8v440th1o77dgrnb46r2p0pe23p2rftk1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:34:59 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
No special rights for lifestyle choices,
huh? What special rights? We gays want the SAME rights as everyone
else. You are trying to pass a constitutional amendment to make us
second class citizens. You make no bones about why. You consider us
scum so discrimination is justified.
Morality has value within a society.
Gays pushed the issue and now it will be decided.
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| User: "General Urko" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
01 Mar 2004 01:15:58 AM |
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"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:PrCdnXyFFI-vHN_dRVn-uQ@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:j8v440th1o77dgrnb46r2p0pe23p2rftk1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:34:59 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
No special rights for lifestyle choices,
huh? What special rights? We gays want the SAME rights as everyone
else. You are trying to pass a constitutional amendment to make us
second class citizens. You make no bones about why. You consider us
scum so discrimination is justified.
Morality has value within a society.
Gays pushed the issue and now it will be decided.
So people living under your jackboot is moral???
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| User: "Mike" |
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| Title: Re: Early Christian Tolerance Of Gay Marriage |
05 Mar 2004 01:49:42 PM |
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as i recall it wasn't the leftist who started this whole argument. the fact
that one state was marrying gay people was just way too queerish for any
republican to stand.
i remember hearing about how we used to descriminate against blacks simply
for the color of their skin...how little we have evolved as humanity.
"starvinmarvin" <sm@sm.com> wrote in message
news:c2a662$6r0$1@transfer.stratus.com...
"Tarver Engineering" <jtarver@sti.net> wrote in message
news:WsGdnR8OJvcmCdzdRVn-sQ@sti.net...
"Roedy Green" <look-at-the-website@mindprod.com> wrote in message
news:783340hverg4vpeoph8u0hctp7vk4pu5h7@4ax.com...
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:39:17 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
<jtarver@sti.net> wrote or quoted :
Saint John is usually the one fags fixate on.
The lady doth protest too much methinks.
I am quite secure in my sexuality.
The problem with the "gay movement" is the same problem that the "civil
rights movement" now has. Both have been hijacked by leftists who want
nothing more than to hide behind real causes, like gay rights and civil
rights for blacks, to further their deconstructionist views. Gay marriage
is
nothing more than just another straw on the deconstructionist camels back.
What comes after gay marriage?? Polygamy....man and beast...adults and
children?? I hope some predominant gays speak up and get their cause back
on
course. They want equal rights for legal preceding such as health
benefits,
visitation during hospital stays, life insurance, etc.. I would bet not
many
want to deconstruct marriage and what it means to the majority of
Americans.
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