EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 07 Jan 2007 12:30:35 AM
Object: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies
EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern
When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out – thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.
A paramedic arrived by rapid-response car in a matter of minutes to
the shopping center where the unnamed senior was stricken and began
caring for the man. Witnesses say he made desperate calls on his cell
phone in an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched.
The London Ambulance Service, which has launched an investigation of
the incident, confirmed that two crews were on a mandated break at a
station five minutes away from the shopping center, but they could not
be disturbed, the London Daily Mail reported.
Under rules mandated by the European Working Time Directive, adopted
in December, ambulance crews working shifts between six and 10 hours
long are allocated a rest break of 30 minutes and cannot be sent out
on 999 calls – the UK equivalent to 911 emergencies in the U.S.
LAS dispatched an ambulance from a neighboring community, but it did
not arrive for over 20 minutes after the original emergency phone
call.
"We dispatched a rapid-response car, which arrived at the shopping
center within eight minutes at 1:30 pm, the member of staff being able
to start treatment immediately," a spokesman for LAS said. "An
ambulance was sent at 1:32 pm after it became available from attending
another incident and, according to our records, arrived at the
shopping center at 1:41 pm and at the patient a few minutes later.
"The man stopped breathing shortly afterwards and efforts were made to
resuscitate him both at the scene and on the way to North Middlesex
Hospital, where he arrived at approximately 2:10 pm."
"It is disgusting," said eyewitness Sheldon Trevatt of Edmonton. "The
man worked all his life paying his national insurance. If that
ambulance had been there earlier I think his life would have been
saved.”
In another London ambulance mishap last year, a crew transporting a
mental health patient 10 miles between two hospitals, drove 200 miles,
using the vehicle's faulty satellite navigation system, before
realizing their error. The patient was unharmed.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53660
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.

User: "Roger"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 01:47:24 AM
A warped story.
By WND.
Suprised?
Why did they leave out this part?
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6237307.stm
A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at the
time of the 999 call."
He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a break at
1257 GMT on December 31.
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:sl41q2pk8qgn9qd77bc3ue8r2ndbn8f20a@4ax.com...

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

A paramedic arrived by rapid-response car in a matter of minutes to
the shopping center where the unnamed senior was stricken and began
caring for the man. Witnesses say he made desperate calls on his cell
phone in an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched.

The London Ambulance Service, which has launched an investigation of
the incident, confirmed that two crews were on a mandated break at a
station five minutes away from the shopping center, but they could not
be disturbed, the London Daily Mail reported.

Under rules mandated by the European Working Time Directive, adopted
in December, ambulance crews working shifts between six and 10 hours
long are allocated a rest break of 30 minutes and cannot be sent out
on 999 calls - the UK equivalent to 911 emergencies in the U.S.

LAS dispatched an ambulance from a neighboring community, but it did
not arrive for over 20 minutes after the original emergency phone
call.

"We dispatched a rapid-response car, which arrived at the shopping
center within eight minutes at 1:30 pm, the member of staff being able
to start treatment immediately," a spokesman for LAS said. "An
ambulance was sent at 1:32 pm after it became available from attending
another incident and, according to our records, arrived at the
shopping center at 1:41 pm and at the patient a few minutes later.

"The man stopped breathing shortly afterwards and efforts were made to
resuscitate him both at the scene and on the way to North Middlesex
Hospital, where he arrived at approximately 2:10 pm."

"It is disgusting," said eyewitness Sheldon Trevatt of Edmonton. "The
man worked all his life paying his national insurance. If that
ambulance had been there earlier I think his life would have been
saved."

In another London ambulance mishap last year, a crew transporting a
mental health patient 10 miles between two hospitals, drove 200 miles,
using the vehicle's faulty satellite navigation system, before
realizing their error. The patient was unharmed.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53660

--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net

.
User: "Adam Whyte-Settlar"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 09:34:47 AM
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a0a585$0$4869$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

A warped story.

By WND.

Suprised?

Why did they leave out this part?

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6237307.stm

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a break
at 1257 GMT on December 31.

Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.
.
User: "Roger"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:00:56 PM
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:45a1130d@quokka.wn.com.au...


"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a0a585$0$4869$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

A warped story.

By WND.

Suprised?

Why did they leave out this part?

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6237307.stm

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and
available to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was
allocated a break at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help
within 8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.

I have yet to see a completely FACTUAL "news" article from them. They either
make it up or leave something out or misquote. ALWAYS.
I've said it many times before: How can you continue to believe in ideas if
you HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY LIE to make them seem viable?
Why are their brains missing the part that tells normal people "if I have to
lie about this every time, perhaps my thinking is flawed?"
.
User: "Adam Whyte-Settlar"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 03:50:14 AM
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a17b9f$0$5232$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:45a1130d@quokka.wn.com.au...


"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a0a585$0$4869$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

A warped story.

By WND.

Suprised?

Why did they leave out this part?

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6237307.stm

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can
confirm that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance
Service at the time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and
available to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was
allocated a break at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out
or they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help
within 8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.


I have yet to see a completely FACTUAL "news" article from them. They
either make it up or leave something out or misquote. ALWAYS.

I've said it many times before: How can you continue to believe in ideas
if you HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY LIE to make them seem viable?

Why are their brains missing the part that tells normal people "if I have
to lie about this every time, perhaps my thinking is flawed?"

That attitude seems to go right to the top at the current time.
.


User: ""

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 12:27:52 PM
On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:34:47 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
<grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote:

Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.

Man, I could only pray for a ten minute ambulance here.
Swill
--
In the 1960s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.
In the 2000s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.
The moral of the story is, No New Texans
.

User: ""

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 12:33:50 PM
On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:34:47 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
<grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote:

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a break
at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.

Point well taken. That said, these are 24 hour emergency crews.
Swill
--
In the 1960s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.
In the 2000s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.
The moral of the story is, No New Texans
.
User: "Roger"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:02:04 PM
<governorswill@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:33f2q2l0o4bb6b72m187d7lhp7bjoa84o6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:34:47 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
<grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote:

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can
confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and
available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a break
at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help
within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.


Point well taken. That said, these are 24 hour emergency crews.

The CREWS are not 24 hour, the SERVICE is.
There were 4 other crews available but not called. Why weren't the free
crews called?


Swill
--
In the 1960s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

In the 2000s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

The moral of the story is, No New Texans

.
User: "Adam Whyte-Settlar"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 03:45:22 AM
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a17be3$0$18921$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

<governorswill@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:33f2q2l0o4bb6b72m187d7lhp7bjoa84o6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:34:47 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
<grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote:

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can
confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at
the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and
available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a
break
at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out
or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help
within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.


Point well taken. That said, these are 24 hour emergency crews.


The CREWS are not 24 hour, the SERVICE is.

Exactly - the crews rotate and cover each other while on breaks etc.


There were 4 other crews available but not called. Why weren't the free
crews called?

They *were* called *and* arrived within 20 minutes - which is slower than
usual granted but who knows what traffic etc they had to deal with - it's
not always possible to clear a London street to make way for an ambulance
even if you want to. It was New Years Eve after all.
Another point that perhaps our Merkan cousins aren't aware of is those
'Rapid Response cars' are specifically equipped to deal with heart attack
victims in the street.
That's what they do! Or at least that's one of the things they do.
And the reason they use fast estate cars is to enable them to get there
quicker than the 1 ton diesel ambulance vans.
I simply don't buy this "...he made desperate calls on his cell phone in an
attempt to have an ambulance dispatched..." crap - that's pure WND speak.
The RR cars have all the high tech gear and the paramedics are well-trained.
If the RR guy couldn't keep him alive he was on the way out anyway.
It would have been just another routine call-out for the Rapid Response guy
and he would have administered primary care and called in for an ambulance
same as always.
Eight minutes for the heart attack wagon and another 10 minutes for the back
up in London on New Years Eve?
Pretty good going I would have said.
It does seem he was a bit unlucky to collapse where and when he did - if he
had been a few miles the other side of the RR station this wouldn't have
made the gutter press at all.
.
User: "Roger"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 06:16:20 AM
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:45a212a7@quokka.wn.com.au...


"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a17be3$0$18921$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

<governorswill@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:33f2q2l0o4bb6b72m187d7lhp7bjoa84o6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:34:47 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
<grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote:

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can
confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at
the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and
available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a
break
at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out
or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help
within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.


Point well taken. That said, these are 24 hour emergency crews.


The CREWS are not 24 hour, the SERVICE is.


Exactly - the crews rotate and cover each other while on breaks etc.


There were 4 other crews available but not called. Why weren't the free
crews called?


They *were* called *and* arrived within 20 minutes - which is slower than
usual granted but who knows what traffic etc they had to deal with - it's
not always possible to clear a London street to make way for an ambulance
even if you want to. It was New Years Eve after all.
Another point that perhaps our Merkan cousins aren't aware of is those
'Rapid Response cars' are specifically equipped to deal with heart attack
victims in the street.
That's what they do! Or at least that's one of the things they do.
And the reason they use fast estate cars is to enable them to get there
quicker than the 1 ton diesel ambulance vans.
I simply don't buy this "...he made desperate calls on his cell phone in
an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched..." crap - that's pure WND
speak.
The RR cars have all the high tech gear and the paramedics are
well-trained. If the RR guy couldn't keep him alive he was on the way out
anyway.
It would have been just another routine call-out for the Rapid Response
guy and he would have administered primary care and called in for an
ambulance same as always.
Eight minutes for the heart attack wagon and another 10 minutes for the
back up in London on New Years Eve?
Pretty good going I would have said.

The story was never about the actual response, but the desired blame on
unions and labor laws.
The real events were fine, it's the story that's defective.

It does seem he was a bit unlucky to collapse where and when he did - if
he had been a few miles the other side of the RR station this wouldn't
have made the gutter press at all.



.
User: "Adam Whyte-Settlar"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 07:03:09 PM
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a23608$0$18902$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:45a212a7@quokka.wn.com.au...


"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45a17be3$0$18921$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

<governorswill@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:33f2q2l0o4bb6b72m187d7lhp7bjoa84o6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 01:34:47 +1000, "Adam Whyte-Settlar"
<grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote:

A London Ambulance Service spokesperson said: "Having looked at the
availability of ambulances in the area during this period, we can
confirm
that two crews were on a rest break at Edmonton Ambulance Service at
the
time of the 999 call."

He said there were four other ambulances on duty in the area and
available
to respond to emergency calls when the second crew was allocated a
break
at 1257 GMT on December 31.


Exactly. Another pathetic non-story from WND.
And even ambulance crews need breaks - they can't go ten hours flat out
or
they will end up being or causing casualties themselves.
Sounds like the guy got less than average service with paramedic help
within
8 minutes and an ambulance a few minutes later but overall the
response times of UK ambualnce service are supurb.
Don't see many WND stories about the millions that arrive within a few
minutes do you.


Point well taken. That said, these are 24 hour emergency crews.


The CREWS are not 24 hour, the SERVICE is.


Exactly - the crews rotate and cover each other while on breaks etc.


There were 4 other crews available but not called. Why weren't the free
crews called?


They *were* called *and* arrived within 20 minutes - which is slower than
usual granted but who knows what traffic etc they had to deal with - it's
not always possible to clear a London street to make way for an ambulance
even if you want to. It was New Years Eve after all.
Another point that perhaps our Merkan cousins aren't aware of is those
'Rapid Response cars' are specifically equipped to deal with heart attack
victims in the street.
That's what they do! Or at least that's one of the things they do.
And the reason they use fast estate cars is to enable them to get there
quicker than the 1 ton diesel ambulance vans.
I simply don't buy this "...he made desperate calls on his cell phone in
an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched..." crap - that's pure WND
speak.
The RR cars have all the high tech gear and the paramedics are
well-trained. If the RR guy couldn't keep him alive he was on the way out
anyway.
It would have been just another routine call-out for the Rapid Response
guy and he would have administered primary care and called in for an
ambulance same as always.
Eight minutes for the heart attack wagon and another 10 minutes for the
back up in London on New Years Eve?
Pretty good going I would have said.


The story was never about the actual response, but the desired blame on
unions and labor laws.

Agreed.
The laws are there to protect people's health and lives - and they do.
A W-S

The real events were fine, it's the story that's defective.


It does seem he was a bit unlucky to collapse where and when he did - if
he had been a few miles the other side of the RR station this wouldn't
have made the gutter press at all.





.







User: "Parsifal"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 10:27:23 AM
Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?
.
User: "Roger"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:03:54 PM
"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168187243.926765.145430@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?

They can't afford to be sick, but they can afford to be very sick.
Clinics and ERs won't take the sick for free when they are beginning the
illness and when it is treatable, but ERs must take them when they are very
sick.
.
User: "Andrealphus"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:07:30 PM
In News 45a17c50$0$4877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,, Roger at
rogerfx@hotmail.com, typed this:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168187243.926765.145430@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?


They can't afford to be sick, but they can afford to be very sick.

Clinics and ERs won't take the sick for free when they are beginning
the illness and when it is treatable, but ERs must take them when
they are very sick.

At a far higher per patient cost.
.
User: "Roger"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:22:11 PM
"Andrealphus" <NOTAREALEMAIL_1@FAM.NET> wrote in message
news:S2foh.8571$w91.8167@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

In News 45a17c50$0$4877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,, Roger at
rogerfx@hotmail.com, typed this:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168187243.926765.145430@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?


They can't afford to be sick, but they can afford to be very sick.

Clinics and ERs won't take the sick for free when they are beginning
the illness and when it is treatable, but ERs must take them when
they are very sick.


At a far higher per patient cost.

Yes, and much poorer medical care. Much better for the patient and less
expensive to catch cancer or heart disease during a regular screening than
to wait until it gets so bad it's an emergency.
.
User: "Andrealphus"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:38:14 PM
In News 45a18099$0$9563$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,, Roger at
rogerfx@hotmail.com, typed this:

"Andrealphus" <NOTAREALEMAIL_1@FAM.NET> wrote in message
news:S2foh.8571$w91.8167@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

In News 45a17c50$0$4877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,, Roger at
rogerfx@hotmail.com, typed this:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168187243.926765.145430@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?


They can't afford to be sick, but they can afford to be very sick.

Clinics and ERs won't take the sick for free when they are beginning
the illness and when it is treatable, but ERs must take them when
they are very sick.


At a far higher per patient cost.


Yes, and much poorer medical care. Much better for the patient and
less expensive to catch cancer or heart disease during a regular
screening than to wait until it gets so bad it's an emergency.

I agree, quite often, ER's will treat poor, uninsured individuals only as
far as it takes to stabilize the patient and shuffle them out the door,
rarely if ever treating the underlying ailment. Regular screenings detect
problems earlier, and treatment can begin faster.
.



User: "Andrealphus"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:09:22 PM
In News 45a17c50$0$4877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,, Roger at
rogerfx@hotmail.com, typed this:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168187243.926765.145430@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?


They can't afford to be sick, but they can afford to be very sick.

Clinics and ERs won't take the sick for free when they are beginning
the illness and when it is treatable, but ERs must take them when
they are very sick.

At a far higher per patient cost.
.

User: "Andrealphus"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:10:05 PM
In News 45a17c50$0$4877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,, Roger at
rogerfx@hotmail.com, typed this:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168187243.926765.145430@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?


They can't afford to be sick, but they can afford to be very sick.

Clinics and ERs won't take the sick for free when they are beginning
the illness and when it is treatable, but ERs must take them when
they are very sick.

At a far higher per patient cost.
.


User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 12:56:16 PM
On 7 Jan 2007 08:27:23 -0800, "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com>
wrote:


Captain Compassion schrieb:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern


Wanna discuss the cases of the 40 millions of Americans who can't
afford to be sick?

Illegal aliens have no problem getting health care. What makes you
believe that all those 40 million actually want health insurance?
Insurance companies are for profit enterprises with a basic business
plan of collecting as much in premiums and they can while paying out
the absolute minimum of claims.
Being self employed and self insured I have saved well over $50,000
dollars over the last 20 years. When medical service was needed I
could chose my own doctor and negotiate fees. Most hospitals give cash
discounts.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.


User: "Fred Oinka"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 12:54:31 AM
Captain Compassion wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

If this is intended to be an argument againts universal health care, it
is a very weak one.
Beurocratic snafus are as much a fact of life in the U.S.'s profit
first health care system as they are in Europe.
.
User: "mike532"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 03:45:07 AM
Fred Oinka wrote:

Captain Compassion wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

If this is intended to be an argument againts universal health care, it
is a very weak one.
Beurocratic snafus are as much a fact of life in the U.S.'s profit
first health care system as they are in Europe.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike532 >>> Here in Florida we had a car catch on fire with a man trapped inside of it . the fire trucks rolled from one station and when they were within one hundred feet of the car were ordered to return to base as the car was in another district and they had a truck on the way . the man died in the fire because some petty bureaucrat decided to exercise his authority and ordered the first truck back to base . it doesn't change the fact that a life was lost but at least this azzhole was fired for his hypocrisy !

.
User: "Patriot Games"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 09:28:55 AM
"mike532" <mike532@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:1168163107.902082.98800@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...

Here in Florida we had a car catch on fire with a man trapped inside of it
. the fire >trucks rolled from one station and when they were within one
hundred feet of the car >were ordered to return to base as the car was in
another district and they had a truck >on the way.

When, where?
.


User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 12:36:32 PM
On 6 Jan 2007 22:54:31 -0800, "Fred Oinka" <stardusthevn@cox.net>
wrote:


Captain Compassion wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

If this is intended to be an argument againts universal health care, it
is a very weak one.
Beurocratic snafus are as much a fact of life in the U.S.'s profit
first health care system as they are in Europe.

But you have legal redress against private enterprise. I don't suspect
you can sue the EU.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Adam Whyte-Settlar"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 03:49:13 AM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6af2q2hktvse2r78uv9ecfeu6l10mhvktn@4ax.com...

On 6 Jan 2007 22:54:31 -0800, "Fred Oinka" <stardusthevn@cox.net>
wrote:


Captain Compassion wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

If this is intended to be an argument againts universal health care, it
is a very weak one.
Beurocratic snafus are as much a fact of life in the U.S.'s profit
first health care system as they are in Europe.


But you have legal redress against private enterprise. I don't suspect
you can sue the EU.

You can sue the UK Health Board.
Lots of people do.
But in this instance I don't think there will be a case to answer.
First response with specialised gear - 8 minutes?
Back up 10 minutes later?
That's not likely to be judged negligence though there will be an inquiry as
is normal when there is any doubt.
.



User: ""

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 05:43:08 PM
Captain Compassion wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

Ya know what this reminds me of??? Bush, surrounded by little kiddies,
listening intently to "My Pet Goat" after an aide informed him the
nation was under attack. It's alway a matter of priorities. National
security is comes slightly behind a rousing work of fiction. Not quite
number two, not quite number one.

A paramedic arrived by rapid-response car in a matter of minutes to
the shopping center where the unnamed senior was stricken and began
caring for the man. Witnesses say he made desperate calls on his cell
phone in an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched.

The London Ambulance Service, which has launched an investigation of
the incident, confirmed that two crews were on a mandated break at a
station five minutes away from the shopping center, but they could not
be disturbed, the London Daily Mail reported.

Under rules mandated by the European Working Time Directive, adopted
in December, ambulance crews working shifts between six and 10 hours
long are allocated a rest break of 30 minutes and cannot be sent out
on 999 calls - the UK equivalent to 911 emergencies in the U.S.

LAS dispatched an ambulance from a neighboring community, but it did
not arrive for over 20 minutes after the original emergency phone
call.

"We dispatched a rapid-response car, which arrived at the shopping
center within eight minutes at 1:30 pm, the member of staff being able
to start treatment immediately," a spokesman for LAS said. "An
ambulance was sent at 1:32 pm after it became available from attending
another incident and, according to our records, arrived at the
shopping center at 1:41 pm and at the patient a few minutes later.

"The man stopped breathing shortly afterwards and efforts were made to
resuscitate him both at the scene and on the way to North Middlesex
Hospital, where he arrived at approximately 2:10 pm."

"It is disgusting," said eyewitness Sheldon Trevatt of Edmonton. "The
man worked all his life paying his national insurance. If that
ambulance had been there earlier I think his life would have been
saved."

In another London ambulance mishap last year, a crew transporting a
mental health patient 10 miles between two hospitals, drove 200 miles,
using the vehicle's faulty satellite navigation system, before
realizing their error. The patient was unharmed.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53660

--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net

.

User: "Scotius"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 07 Jan 2007 09:35:30 PM
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:30:35 -0800, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out – thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

A paramedic arrived by rapid-response car in a matter of minutes to
the shopping center where the unnamed senior was stricken and began
caring for the man. Witnesses say he made desperate calls on his cell
phone in an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched.

The London Ambulance Service, which has launched an investigation of
the incident, confirmed that two crews were on a mandated break at a
station five minutes away from the shopping center, but they could not
be disturbed, the London Daily Mail reported.

Under rules mandated by the European Working Time Directive, adopted
in December, ambulance crews working shifts between six and 10 hours
long are allocated a rest break of 30 minutes and cannot be sent out
on 999 calls – the UK equivalent to 911 emergencies in the U.S.

LAS dispatched an ambulance from a neighboring community, but it did
not arrive for over 20 minutes after the original emergency phone
call.

"We dispatched a rapid-response car, which arrived at the shopping
center within eight minutes at 1:30 pm, the member of staff being able
to start treatment immediately," a spokesman for LAS said. "An
ambulance was sent at 1:32 pm after it became available from attending
another incident and, according to our records, arrived at the
shopping center at 1:41 pm and at the patient a few minutes later.

"The man stopped breathing shortly afterwards and efforts were made to
resuscitate him both at the scene and on the way to North Middlesex
Hospital, where he arrived at approximately 2:10 pm."

"It is disgusting," said eyewitness Sheldon Trevatt of Edmonton. "The
man worked all his life paying his national insurance. If that
ambulance had been there earlier I think his life would have been
saved.”

In another London ambulance mishap last year, a crew transporting a
mental health patient 10 miles between two hospitals, drove 200 miles,
using the vehicle's faulty satellite navigation system, before
realizing their error. The patient was unharmed.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53660

The EU is regulation crazy. The nude circus performers there
can go nude, but have to wear hardhats for "safety". Europe is run by
lunatics.
.
User: "Parsifal"

Title: Re: EU rule: Ambulance crews take break while man dies 08 Jan 2007 06:44:14 AM
Scotius a =E9crit :

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:30:35 -0800, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

EU rule: Ambulance crews
take break while man dies
Heart-attack victim forced to wait 20 minutes,
although emergency vehicles 5 minutes away
Posted: January 6, 2007
5:00 p.m. Eastern

When a 73-year-old Londoner collapsed at a betting shop on New Year's
Eve afternoon, his luck had run out - thanks to European Union rules
that required two nearby ambulance crews to be kept on their 30-minute
breaks.

A paramedic arrived by rapid-response car in a matter of minutes to
the shopping center where the unnamed senior was stricken and began
caring for the man. Witnesses say he made desperate calls on his cell
phone in an attempt to have an ambulance dispatched.

The London Ambulance Service, which has launched an investigation of
the incident, confirmed that two crews were on a mandated break at a
station five minutes away from the shopping center, but they could not
be disturbed, the London Daily Mail reported.

Under rules mandated by the European Working Time Directive, adopted
in December, ambulance crews working shifts between six and 10 hours
long are allocated a rest break of 30 minutes and cannot be sent out
on 999 calls - the UK equivalent to 911 emergencies in the U.S.

LAS dispatched an ambulance from a neighboring community, but it did
not arrive for over 20 minutes after the original emergency phone
call.

"We dispatched a rapid-response car, which arrived at the shopping
center within eight minutes at 1:30 pm, the member of staff being able
to start treatment immediately," a spokesman for LAS said. "An
ambulance was sent at 1:32 pm after it became available from attending
another incident and, according to our records, arrived at the
shopping center at 1:41 pm and at the patient a few minutes later.

"The man stopped breathing shortly afterwards and efforts were made to
resuscitate him both at the scene and on the way to North Middlesex
Hospital, where he arrived at approximately 2:10 pm."

"It is disgusting," said eyewitness Sheldon Trevatt of Edmonton. "The
man worked all his life paying his national insurance. If that
ambulance had been there earlier I think his life would have been
saved."

In another London ambulance mishap last year, a crew transporting a
mental health patient 10 miles between two hospitals, drove 200 miles,
using the vehicle's faulty satellite navigation system, before
realizing their error. The patient was unharmed.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=3D53660


The EU is regulation crazy. The nude circus performers there
can go nude, but have to wear hardhats for "safety". Europe is run by
lunatics.

You're an American, right? Ever heard the concept of not thowing stones
if you live in a glass-house?
As for "Europe being run by lunatics", I'll answer with one word:
"Katrina".
.



  Page 1 of 1

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