| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" |
| Date: |
15 Sep 2006 12:58:03 PM |
| Object: |
Feds lower boom on alternative money |
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-09-14-liberty-usat_x.htm
Feds lower boom on alternative money
Updated 9/15/2006 3:01 AM ET
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The government Thursday warned consumers and businesses
that it is illegal to use alternative money known as "Liberty Dollar"
coins, which organizers promote as a competitor to the almighty
dollar.
"We don't want consumers to be fooled," U.S. Mint spokeswoman Becky
Bailey says, noting U.S. Attorneys offices across the USA have noticed
a marked increase in inquiries about the coins.
The coins' producers vowed to fight the government's decision.
Evansville, Ind.-based National Organization for the Repeal of the
Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code, otherwise known as
NORFED, has been making the Liberty Dollar coins for eight years and
claims $20 million is in circulation. The group says the money, unlike
official U.S. cash, has a hedge against inflation because it is made
almost entirely of silver and is backed by stocks of silver and gold
in a vault in Idaho.
(snip)
---------------------------------
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money. Here's the libertydollar website if you want to read
more.
http://www.libertydollar.org/
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| User: "What, Me Worry?" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 02:34:44 PM |
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Have there been any legal precedents established for this assertion?
Why would it be illegal to trade silver coins?
"Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:applg2lt5fug1rbki4gobdf50eqtjthr51@4ax.com...
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-09-14-liberty-usat_x.htm
Feds lower boom on alternative money
Updated 9/15/2006 3:01 AM ET
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON - The government Thursday warned consumers and businesses
that it is illegal to use alternative money known as "Liberty Dollar"
coins, which organizers promote as a competitor to the almighty
dollar.
"We don't want consumers to be fooled," U.S. Mint spokeswoman Becky
Bailey says, noting U.S. Attorneys offices across the USA have noticed
a marked increase in inquiries about the coins.
The coins' producers vowed to fight the government's decision.
Evansville, Ind.-based National Organization for the Repeal of the
Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code, otherwise known as
NORFED, has been making the Liberty Dollar coins for eight years and
claims $20 million is in circulation. The group says the money, unlike
official U.S. cash, has a hedge against inflation because it is made
almost entirely of silver and is backed by stocks of silver and gold
in a vault in Idaho.
(snip)
---------------------------------
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money. Here's the libertydollar website if you want to read
more.
http://www.libertydollar.org/
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 02:39:16 PM |
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__@____.___ (What, Me Worry?) wrote in
news:Q9idnRq0u4jInZbYnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@insightbb.com:
Have there been any legal precedents established for this
assertion?
Why would it be illegal to trade silver coins?
It's not.
This charge is apparently based on the assertion that the coins are
being represented as real US currency, or are similar enough in
appearance to real coins that people are confusing them with real US
currency.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |
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| User: "Scotius" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 10:37:03 PM |
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:58:03 GMT, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-09-14-liberty-usat_x.htm
Feds lower boom on alternative money
Updated 9/15/2006 3:01 AM ET
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The government Thursday warned consumers and businesses
that it is illegal to use alternative money known as "Liberty Dollar"
coins, which organizers promote as a competitor to the almighty
dollar.
"We don't want consumers to be fooled," U.S. Mint spokeswoman Becky
Bailey says, noting U.S. Attorneys offices across the USA have noticed
a marked increase in inquiries about the coins.
The coins' producers vowed to fight the government's decision.
Evansville, Ind.-based National Organization for the Repeal of the
Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code, otherwise known as
NORFED, has been making the Liberty Dollar coins for eight years and
claims $20 million is in circulation. The group says the money, unlike
official U.S. cash, has a hedge against inflation because it is made
almost entirely of silver and is backed by stocks of silver and gold
in a vault in Idaho.
(snip)
---------------------------------
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money. Here's the libertydollar website if you want to read
more.
http://www.libertydollar.org/
The federal government can make sure that people pay their
taxes, but a form of payment is a form of payment. If I want to trade
by lawnmower for my neighour's stereo, it's none of their f***ing
business, and I strongly advocate that anyone who thinks it is be
shot.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 08:12:37 PM |
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:37:03 -0700, Scotius <wolvzbro@mnsi.net> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:58:03 GMT, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-09-14-liberty-usat_x.htm
Feds lower boom on alternative money
Updated 9/15/2006 3:01 AM ET
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The government Thursday warned consumers and businesses
that it is illegal to use alternative money known as "Liberty Dollar"
coins, which organizers promote as a competitor to the almighty
dollar.
"We don't want consumers to be fooled," U.S. Mint spokeswoman Becky
Bailey says, noting U.S. Attorneys offices across the USA have noticed
a marked increase in inquiries about the coins.
The coins' producers vowed to fight the government's decision.
Evansville, Ind.-based National Organization for the Repeal of the
Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code, otherwise known as
NORFED, has been making the Liberty Dollar coins for eight years and
claims $20 million is in circulation. The group says the money, unlike
official U.S. cash, has a hedge against inflation because it is made
almost entirely of silver and is backed by stocks of silver and gold
in a vault in Idaho.
(snip)
---------------------------------
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money. Here's the libertydollar website if you want to read
more.
http://www.libertydollar.org/
The federal government can make sure that people pay their
taxes, but a form of payment is a form of payment. If I want to trade
by lawnmower for my neighour's stereo, it's none of their f***ing
business, and I strongly advocate that anyone who thinks it is be
shot.
Better get lots of ammo.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html
--
"Science is the record of dead religions." -- Oscar Wilde
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
16 Sep 2006 08:27:19 AM |
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Scotius wrote:
The federal government can make sure that people pay their
taxes, but a form of payment is a form of payment. If I want to trade
by lawnmower for my neighour's stereo,
Ammo is a much better form of alternate money than lawnmowers or
stereos - as ammo, not lawnmowers or stereos, readily translates into
the daily need everyone has for food and protection. That ability to
translate readily into daily necessities is why .22 LR ammo was the
alternate money of Red Nation during the 1930s Depression - and why
even lawnmowers weren't. (How many lawnmowers do you need or want to
end up with?)
No $4 parking! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
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| User: "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
16 Sep 2006 10:29:09 AM |
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On 16 Sep 2006 06:27:19 -0700, "editor@netpath.net"
<editor@netpath.net> wrote:
Scotius wrote:
The federal government can make sure that people pay their
taxes, but a form of payment is a form of payment. If I want to trade
by lawnmower for my neighour's stereo,
Ammo is a much better form of alternate money than lawnmowers or
stereos - as ammo, not lawnmowers or stereos, readily translates into
the daily need everyone has for food and protection. That ability to
translate readily into daily necessities is why .22 LR ammo was the
alternate money of Red Nation during the 1930s Depression - and why
even lawnmowers weren't. (How many lawnmowers do you need or want to
end up with?)
I wonder if centerfire ammo ever caught on as currency? Something
like 38 spl or 30-06 would seem like a better choice than 22LR but
then again, with CF ammo you have a lot of reloading and the
possiblity of counterfeiting.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
16 Sep 2006 07:57:28 PM |
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Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS quoted me:
Ammo is a much better form of alternate money than lawnmowers or
stereos - as ammo, not lawnmowers or stereos, readily translates into
the daily need everyone has for food and protection. That ability to
translate readily into daily necessities is why .22 LR ammo was the
alternate money of Red Nation during the 1930s Depression
and replied:
I wonder if centerfire ammo ever caught on as currency? Something
like 38 spl or 30-06 would seem like a better choice than 22LR but
then again, with CF ammo you have a lot of reloading and the
possiblity of counterfeiting.
No - for the same reason you probably carry more $1 and $20 bills
daily than $100 bills. The high-value bills just are inconvenient to
use in daily life - while $1 or $20 bills are much closer to the price
of most things you buy daily.
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
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| User: "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
17 Sep 2006 12:21:34 AM |
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On 16 Sep 2006 17:57:28 -0700, "editor@netpath.net"
<editor@netpath.net> wrote:
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS quoted me:
Ammo is a much better form of alternate money than lawnmowers or
stereos - as ammo, not lawnmowers or stereos, readily translates into
the daily need everyone has for food and protection. That ability to
translate readily into daily necessities is why .22 LR ammo was the
alternate money of Red Nation during the 1930s Depression
and replied:
I wonder if centerfire ammo ever caught on as currency? Something
like 38 spl or 30-06 would seem like a better choice than 22LR but
then again, with CF ammo you have a lot of reloading and the
possiblity of counterfeiting.
No - for the same reason you probably carry more $1 and $20 bills
daily than $100 bills. The high-value bills just are inconvenient to
use in daily life - while $1 or $20 bills are much closer to the price
of most things you buy daily.
OK but a standard pack of 50 cartridges in 38 special doesn't cost
$100. More like $15.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
17 Sep 2006 10:29:32 AM |
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Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
I wonder if centerfire ammo ever caught on as currency? Something
like 38 spl or 30-06 would seem like a better choice than 22LR but
then again, with CF ammo you have a lot of reloading and the
possiblity of counterfeiting.
quoted me:
No - for the same reason you probably carry more $1 and $20 bills
daily than $100 bills. The high-value bills just are inconvenient to
use in daily life - while $1 or $20 bills are much closer to the price
of most things you buy daily.
and replied:
OK but a standard pack of 50 cartridges in 38 special doesn't cost
$100. More like $15.
You still miss it. PRACTICALITY is why people during the Depression
wanted .22 LR for their alternative money. With few of them likely
having operating refrigerators, it was .22 LR - not .30-06 or .38
Special - that could easily translate into tonight's family dinner
without wasting a whole deer that couldn't be stored. Like the $20
bill today - rather than the $100 bill - it was what was PRACTICAL.
Dammit, doctor bills were being paid in eggs in rural areas then!
Problem was, eggs just wouldn't keep. But .22 LR ammo would keep
forever. Guess which one got preferred.
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 03:09:14 PM |
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:58:03 GMT, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are
MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-09-14-liberty-usat_x.htm
Feds lower boom on alternative money
Updated 9/15/2006 3:01 AM ET
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The government Thursday warned consumers and businesses
that it is illegal to use alternative money known as "Liberty Dollar"
coins, which organizers promote as a competitor to the almighty
dollar.
"We don't want consumers to be fooled," U.S. Mint spokeswoman Becky
Bailey says, noting U.S. Attorneys offices across the USA have noticed
a marked increase in inquiries about the coins.
The coins' producers vowed to fight the government's decision.
Evansville, Ind.-based National Organization for the Repeal of the
Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code, otherwise known as
NORFED, has been making the Liberty Dollar coins for eight years and
claims $20 million is in circulation. The group says the money, unlike
official U.S. cash, has a hedge against inflation because it is made
almost entirely of silver and is backed by stocks of silver and gold
in a vault in Idaho.
(snip)
---------------------------------
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money. Here's the libertydollar website if you want to read
more.
http://www.libertydollar.org/
Bullion coins are better
--
"Science is the record of dead religions." -- Oscar Wilde
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 02:48:21 PM |
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Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money.
"Money" is anything that:
1) Is readily-identified as to value in area used.
2) Isn't readily counterfeited credibly for lower cost than its value.
3) Will readily trade in area used.
Does anyone doubt that a Canadian dollar is "money" in Maine? Hell,
during the Depression, .22 LR ammo was common "money" in Red Nation -
as it met the above three characteristics and readily translated into
food!
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
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| User: "morticide" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 03:09:59 PM |
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wrote:
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money.
"Money" is anything that:
1) Is readily-identified as to value in area used.
2) Isn't readily counterfeited credibly for lower cost than its value.
3) Will readily trade in area used.
Does anyone doubt that a Canadian dollar is "money" in Maine? Hell,
during the Depression, .22 LR ammo was common "money" in Red Nation -
as it met the above three characteristics and readily translated into
food!
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
I just find it a relief that we're still trading in dollars in the US
instead of pesos or Euros...give it time.
I heard a conspiracy theory once that JFK wanted to return to the use
of US Notes with real backing, and that was a factor behind the
assassination. The value of money is what the government decides it to
be, even if the medium of exchange is toilet paper.
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| User: "Dion" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 03:19:02 PM |
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"morticide" <grvan@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1158350999.018737.287860@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
editor@netpath.net wrote:
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money.
"Money" is anything that:
1) Is readily-identified as to value in area used.
2) Isn't readily counterfeited credibly for lower cost than its value.
3) Will readily trade in area used.
Does anyone doubt that a Canadian dollar is "money" in Maine? Hell,
during the Depression, .22 LR ammo was common "money" in Red Nation -
as it met the above three characteristics and readily translated into
food!
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
I just find it a relief that we're still trading in dollars in the US
instead of pesos or Euros...give it time.
I heard a conspiracy theory once that JFK wanted to return to the use
of US Notes with real backing, and that was a factor behind the
assassination. The value of money is what the government decides it to
be, even if the medium of exchange is toilet paper.
Oh, like Nixon did in 1971?
--
Dion
PEACE - Back by popular demand
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| User: "kirtland" |
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| Title: Re: Feds lower boom on alternative money |
15 Sep 2006 10:33:57 PM |
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On 15 Sep 2006 13:09:59 -0700, "morticide" <grvan@netzero.net> wrote:
editor@netpath.net wrote:
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
Fork the govt. Nothing illegal about alternative money. A written
IOU is money.
"Money" is anything that:
1) Is readily-identified as to value in area used.
2) Isn't readily counterfeited credibly for lower cost than its value.
3) Will readily trade in area used.
Does anyone doubt that a Canadian dollar is "money" in Maine? Hell,
during the Depression, .22 LR ammo was common "money" in Red Nation -
as it met the above three characteristics and readily translated into
food!
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
I just find it a relief that we're still trading in dollars in the US
instead of pesos or Euros...give it time.
I heard a conspiracy theory once that JFK wanted to return to the use
of US Notes with real backing, and that was a factor behind the
assassination. The value of money is what the government decides it to
be, even if the medium of exchange is toilet paper.
Going against the privately held Federal Reserve Bank is going against
the richest entity in the world. No other group of men in the world
hold more power than these.
http://www.rense.com/general44/exec.htm
Executive Order 1110 gave the US the ability to create its own money
backed by silver.
http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/executiveorder11110.htm
On June 4, 1963, a little known attempt was made to strip the Federal
Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the government at interest.
On that day President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order No. 11110
that returned to the U.S. government the power to issue currency,
without going through the Federal Reserve. Mr. Kennedy's order gave
the Treasury the power "to issue silver certificates against any
silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury."
This meant that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's
vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation. In
all, Kennedy brought nearly $4.3 billion in U.S. notes into
circulation. The ramifications of this bill are enormous.
With the stroke of a pen, Mr. Kennedy was on his way to putting the
Federal Reserve Bank of New York out of business. If enough of these
silver certificates were to come into circulation they would have
eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve notes. This is because the
silver certificates are backed by silver and the Federal Reserve notes
are not backed by anything. Executive Order 11110 could have prevented
the national debt from reaching its current level, because it would
have given the government the ability to repay its debt without going
to the Federal Reserve and being charged interest in order to create
the new money. Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S. the ability to
create its own money backed by silver.
....
The Fed basically works like this: The government granted its power to
create money to the Fed banks. They create money, then loan it back to
the government charging interest. The government levies income taxes
to pay the interest on the debt. On this point, it's interesting to
note that the Federal Reserve act and the sixteenth amendment, which
gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in
1913. The incredible power of the Fed over the economy is universally
admitted. Some people, especially in the banking and academic
communities, even support it. On the other hand, there are those, both
in the past and in the present, that speak out against it. One of
these men was President John F. Kennedy. His efforts were detailed in
Jim Marrs' 1990 book, Crossfire:
Another overlooked aspect of Kennedy's attempt to reform American
society involves money. Kennedy apparently reasoned that by returning
to the constitution, which states that only Congress shall coin and
regulate money, the soaring national debt could be reduced by not
paying interest to the bankers of the Federal Reserve System, who
print paper money then loan it to the government at interest. He moved
in this area on June 4, 1963, by signing Executive Order 11,110 which
called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes
through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve
System. That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of
one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the
weakened U.S. currency.
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