Politics > Politics-USA > GunLoon Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry - More Guns Equal More Murder, Not Less Crime
| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Gunner" |
| Date: |
26 Aug 2007 11:26:44 AM |
| Object: |
GunLoon Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry - More Guns Equal More Murder, Not Less Crime |
"Gun Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry"
Tell us something we don't know!
John See is a retired college professor and avid hunter, and, just like us,
he's committed to setting the record straight on the myths the NRA has
built up over the years. One of these myths (we're sure you've heard it
before, because every gun guy from here to Florida has been repeating it
like a firearm-crazy parrot) is "more guns less crime," meaning that the
NRA guys think that if, via concealed carry or some other dangerous law, we
can put more guns in citizens' hands, somehow that will actually make us
safer. How they get to the conclusion that more weapons will make us safer
seems loony to us, too. And yet the NRA repeats it as truth, [1] until
everyone thinks that's what it is.
There is a striking similarity between the way the Bush administration used
lies and deception to drag us into Iraq and the way the gun lobby is using
lies and deception to drag us into the dangerous world of concealed
weapons.
Both used fraudulent science and fear-mongering to frighten and deceive the
public.
In the case of George W. Bush, we see by hindsight how it happened, and we
feel contempt for the dishonorable way he behaved, but that doesn't get us
out of the mess. I predict a similar scenario in Wisconsin if the National
Rifle Association gets its way with the proposed concealed carry
legislation. We will awaken to the realization that we were conned, and we
will feel contempt for our politicians, and possibly ourselves, but we will
still be stuck with the mess.
Here's an example of how they manipulate science:
First, start with the legitimate findings of the National Research Council
of the National Academy of Sciences. This group sets the gold standard for
scientific integrity in America. Their blue ribbon panel of scientists
carefully analyzed all research related to concealed weapons and could not
find a cause-and-effect relationship between concealed weapons legislation
and criminal activity. Its final report (Firearms & Violence, 2005) stated,
"Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not
possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of
right-to-carry laws and crime rates."
Next, observe the National Rifle Association's deliberate distortion of the
scientific evidence. Instead of candidly informing its members of the
hugely important National Academy of Sciences study, it sweeps the study
under the rug and replaces it with bogus statistics that imply causation
between concealed weapons and crime reduction.
Here is a quote from the NRA's right-to-carry 2005 fact sheet: "RTC states
have lower violent crime rates, on average: 24 percent lower total violent
crime, 22 percent lower murder, 37 percent lower robbery, and 20 percent
lower aggravated assault." The NRA's intent here is blatantly dishonest. It
counts on the public not understanding the difference between correlation
and causation. And to add to the confusion, even its math is suspect.
Anyone with a hand calculator can give it the lie by simply going to the
FBI Web site and comparing the 2004 crime rates of the states that prohibit
concealed weapons (Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska and Kansas) with the
national averages.
We've heard even crazier defenses than that. Gun guys love to tell us that
Britian has banned guns for years, and yet despite that, crime is at record
percentages there! Sounds persuasive, right? It is, until you actually
realize that whatever the percentages are, 38 police officers have died in
Britain in the past 20 years. In America, 54 officers died last year alone.
In Britain, they have about 70 gun deaths per year. In America, we have
almost 30,000, and rising every day.
Finally, watch the total shredding of scientific truth by our own
Republicans here in Wisconsin. This is what state Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau
Claire, and state Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, co-authors of the
concealed carry bill, have to say, according to the Wisconsin Concealed
Carry Association Web site: "The statistics have shown that concealed carry
laws have worked effectively to help lower violent crime rates by an
average of 24 percent. In a time when we, as a Legislature, are trying to
figure out how to cope with an ever-growing prison population, a 24 percent
drop in the violent crime rate in Wisconsin would be a welcome occurrence."
As you can see, these politicians are not content to merely imply causation
as the NRA does. They take falsification to a new level by stating
categorically that concealed carry laws lower crime rates. They then
compound the falsehood even further by predicting an enormous drop in
Wisconsin crime if their bill is passed.
This is political pandering, pure and simple. At worst, they are lying. At
best, they exhibit a profound ignorance of the research surrounding their
pet legislation. And that's how the gun lobby turns science on its head,
and endangers all of us.
"More guns" don't equal "less crime." Ever. What they do equal is "more
death." Always. No matter how much the gun guys (and, in this case, NRA-
approved legislators) distort the figures and parrot the NRA agenda, that
fact won't change. And it's why, instead of adding to the violence in our
streets by approving concealed weapons laws, we need to get guns off our
streets as soon as we possibly can.
.
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| User: "Jim E" |
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| Title: Re: GunLoon Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry - More Guns Equal More Murder, Not Less Crime |
26 Aug 2007 12:08:18 PM |
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"Gunner" <gunning.for.you@mail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.213b73cc900ee7f898979d@news.albasani.net...
"Gun Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry"
Tell us something we don't know!
John See is a retired college professor and avid hunter, and, just like
us,
he's committed to setting the record straight on the myths the NRA has
built up over the years. One of these myths (we're sure you've heard it
before, because every gun guy from here to Florida has been repeating it
like a firearm-crazy parrot) is "more guns less crime," meaning that the
NRA guys think that if, via concealed carry or some other dangerous law,
we
can put more guns in citizens' hands, somehow that will actually make us
safer. How they get to the conclusion that more weapons will make us safer
seems loony to us, too. And yet the NRA repeats it as truth, [1] until
everyone thinks that's what it is.
There is a striking similarity between the way the Bush administration
used
lies and deception to drag us into Iraq and the way the gun lobby is using
lies and deception to drag us into the dangerous world of concealed
weapons.
Both used fraudulent science and fear-mongering to frighten and deceive
the
public.
In the case of George W. Bush, we see by hindsight how it happened, and we
feel contempt for the dishonorable way he behaved, but that doesn't get us
out of the mess. I predict a similar scenario in Wisconsin if the National
Rifle Association gets its way with the proposed concealed carry
legislation. We will awaken to the realization that we were conned, and we
will feel contempt for our politicians, and possibly ourselves, but we
will
still be stuck with the mess.
Here's an example of how they manipulate science:
First, start with the legitimate findings of the National Research Council
of the National Academy of Sciences. This group sets the gold standard for
scientific integrity in America. Their blue ribbon panel of scientists
carefully analyzed all research related to concealed weapons and could not
find a cause-and-effect relationship between concealed weapons legislation
and criminal activity. Its final report (Firearms & Violence, 2005)
stated,
"Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not
possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of
right-to-carry laws and crime rates."
Next, observe the National Rifle Association's deliberate distortion of
the
scientific evidence. Instead of candidly informing its members of the
hugely important National Academy of Sciences study, it sweeps the study
under the rug and replaces it with bogus statistics that imply causation
between concealed weapons and crime reduction.
Here is a quote from the NRA's right-to-carry 2005 fact sheet: "RTC states
have lower violent crime rates, on average: 24 percent lower total violent
crime, 22 percent lower murder, 37 percent lower robbery, and 20 percent
lower aggravated assault." The NRA's intent here is blatantly dishonest.
It
counts on the public not understanding the difference between correlation
and causation. And to add to the confusion, even its math is suspect.
Anyone with a hand calculator can give it the lie by simply going to the
FBI Web site and comparing the 2004 crime rates of the states that
prohibit
concealed weapons (Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska and Kansas) with the
national averages.
We've heard even crazier defenses than that. Gun guys love to tell us that
Britian has banned guns for years, and yet despite that, crime is at
record
percentages there! Sounds persuasive, right? It is, until you actually
realize that whatever the percentages are, 38 police officers have died in
Britain in the past 20 years. In America, 54 officers died last year
alone.
In Britain, they have about 70 gun deaths per year. In America, we have
almost 30,000, and rising every day.
Finally, watch the total shredding of scientific truth by our own
Republicans here in Wisconsin. This is what state Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau
Claire, and state Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, co-authors of the
concealed carry bill, have to say, according to the Wisconsin Concealed
Carry Association Web site: "The statistics have shown that concealed
carry
laws have worked effectively to help lower violent crime rates by an
average of 24 percent. In a time when we, as a Legislature, are trying to
figure out how to cope with an ever-growing prison population, a 24
percent
drop in the violent crime rate in Wisconsin would be a welcome
occurrence."
As you can see, these politicians are not content to merely imply
causation
as the NRA does. They take falsification to a new level by stating
categorically that concealed carry laws lower crime rates. They then
compound the falsehood even further by predicting an enormous drop in
Wisconsin crime if their bill is passed.
This is political pandering, pure and simple. At worst, they are lying. At
best, they exhibit a profound ignorance of the research surrounding their
pet legislation. And that's how the gun lobby turns science on its head,
and endangers all of us.
"More guns" don't equal "less crime." Ever. What they do equal is "more
death." Always. No matter how much the gun guys (and, in this case, NRA-
approved legislators) distort the figures and parrot the NRA agenda, that
fact won't change. And it's why, instead of adding to the violence in our
streets by approving concealed weapons laws, we need to get guns off our
streets as soon as we possibly can.
Here in Wa. we have had concealed weapons permits basically forever.
Funny how you don't here any negatives about states that have always had
this freedom, just the people trying to gain this right.
How telling.
Jim E
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| User: "Chris Morton" |
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| Title: Re: GunLoon Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry - More Guns Equal More Murder, Not Less Crime |
27 Aug 2007 10:50:05 AM |
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In article <MPG.213b73cc900ee7f898979d@news.albasani.net>, Gunner says...
"Gun Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry"
Those who oppose concealed carry are against self-defense and want especially to
see women beaten, raped and murdered.
--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with
210lb. rapists.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: GunLoon Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry - More Guns Equal More Murder, Not Less Crime |
26 Aug 2007 02:03:00 PM |
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On Aug 26, 12:26 pm, Gunner <gunning.for....@mail.com> wrote:
"Gun Lobby Lies to Advance Concealed Carry"
Tell us something we don't know!
John See is a retired college professor and avid hunter, and, just like us,
he's committed to setting the record straight on the myths the NRA has
built up over the years. One of these myths (we're sure you've heard it
before, because every gun guy from here to Florida has been repeating it
like a firearm-crazy parrot) is "more guns less crime," meaning that the
NRA guys think that if, via concealed carry or some other dangerous law, we
can put more guns in citizens' hands, somehow that will actually make us
safer.
Well, they're right in principle, but that's also why we invented
A-10s.
Just to let the NRA, and Ted Nugent morons know who runs the
guns, cameras, 18 wheeler, and constitution games, all at the SAME
TIME.
How they get to the conclusion that more weapons will make us safer
seems loony to us, too. And yet the NRA repeats it as truth, [1] until
everyone thinks that's what it is.
There is a striking similarity between the way the Bush administration used
lies and deception to drag us into Iraq and the way the gun lobby is using
lies and deception to drag us into the dangerous world of concealed
weapons.
Both used fraudulent science and fear-mongering to frighten and deceive the
public.
In the case of George W. Bush, we see by hindsight how it happened, and we
feel contempt for the dishonorable way he behaved, but that doesn't get us
out of the mess. I predict a similar scenario in Wisconsin if the National
Rifle Association gets its way with the proposed concealed carry
legislation. We will awaken to the realization that we were conned, and we
will feel contempt for our politicians, and possibly ourselves, but we will
still be stuck with the mess.
Here's an example of how they manipulate science:
First, start with the legitimate findings of the National Research Council
of the National Academy of Sciences. This group sets the gold standard for
scientific integrity in America. Their blue ribbon panel of scientists
carefully analyzed all research related to concealed weapons and could not
find a cause-and-effect relationship between concealed weapons legislation
and criminal activity. Its final report (Firearms & Violence, 2005) stated,
"Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not
possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of
right-to-carry laws and crime rates."
Next, observe the National Rifle Association's deliberate distortion of the
scientific evidence. Instead of candidly informing its members of the
hugely important National Academy of Sciences study, it sweeps the study
under the rug and replaces it with bogus statistics that imply causation
between concealed weapons and crime reduction.
Here is a quote from the NRA's right-to-carry 2005 fact sheet: "RTC states
have lower violent crime rates, on average: 24 percent lower total violent
crime, 22 percent lower murder, 37 percent lower robbery, and 20 percent
lower aggravated assault." The NRA's intent here is blatantly dishonest. It
counts on the public not understanding the difference between correlation
and causation. And to add to the confusion, even its math is suspect.
Anyone with a hand calculator can give it the lie by simply going to the
FBI Web site and comparing the 2004 crime rates of the states that prohibit
concealed weapons (Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska and Kansas) with the
national averages.
We've heard even crazier defenses than that. Gun guys love to tell us that
Britian has banned guns for years, and yet despite that, crime is at record
percentages there! Sounds persuasive, right? It is, until you actually
realize that whatever the percentages are, 38 police officers have died in
Britain in the past 20 years. In America, 54 officers died last year alone.
In Britain, they have about 70 gun deaths per year. In America, we have
almost 30,000, and rising every day.
Finally, watch the total shredding of scientific truth by our own
Republicans here in Wisconsin. This is what state Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau
Claire, and state Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, co-authors of the
concealed carry bill, have to say, according to the Wisconsin Concealed
Carry Association Web site: "The statistics have shown that concealed carry
laws have worked effectively to help lower violent crime rates by an
average of 24 percent. In a time when we, as a Legislature, are trying to
figure out how to cope with an ever-growing prison population, a 24 percent
drop in the violent crime rate in Wisconsin would be a welcome occurrence."
As you can see, these politicians are not content to merely imply causation
as the NRA does. They take falsification to a new level by stating
categorically that concealed carry laws lower crime rates. They then
compound the falsehood even further by predicting an enormous drop in
Wisconsin crime if their bill is passed.
This is political pandering, pure and simple. At worst, they are lying. At
best, they exhibit a profound ignorance of the research surrounding their
pet legislation. And that's how the gun lobby turns science on its head,
and endangers all of us.
"More guns" don't equal "less crime." Ever. What they do equal is "more
death." Always. No matter how much the gun guys (and, in this case, NRA-
approved legislators) distort the figures and parrot the NRA agenda, that
fact won't change. And it's why, instead of adding to the violence in our
streets by approving concealed weapons laws, we need to get guns off our
streets as soon as we possibly can.
.
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