| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Jd" |
| Date: |
09 Oct 2004 11:43:25 PM |
| Object: |
How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
It's official now. The Aryan Nation has moved it's headquarters from
Idaho to Alabama. As a resident of Alabama, I naturally became curious
over the matter and began an small inquiry among folks I knew. The
initial results convinced me that a further peek into the matter was
definitely in order.
Who knows where this will end up.
Back in 1861, the Cherokee Nation along with representatives of the
Creek, Seminole, Chocktaw and Chickasaw native American Indian tribes,
recognized the danger of the neo-yankee empire, and declared its
independence from the Union and allied itself with the Confederacy...
i.e. the south... forever.
Here is an exerpt from the 1861 Cherokee Nations Declaration of
Independence:
"Urged by these considerations, the Cherokees, long divided in
opinion, became unanimous, and like their brethren, the Creeks,
Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, determined, by the undivided
voice of a General Convention of all the people, held at Tahlequah, on
the 21st day of August, in the present year, to make common cause with
the South and share its fortunes.
In now carrying this resolution into effect and consummating a treaty
of alliance and friendship with the Confederate States of America the
Cherokee people declares that it has been faithful and loyal to is
engagements with the United States until, by placing its safety and
even its national existence in imminent peril, those States have
released them from those engagements." - (The Cherokee Nation's
Declaration of Independence - Published: 10/28/1861)
From the same Declaration, it is seen that the Cherokees knew in
advance that the promise of liberty (annulment of slavery, etc. etc.)
was only a guise and that extiction of their race and the plunder of
their land would soon follow...
"The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war
commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the
powers of government of the United States would be to annul the
institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what
they term free territory and after a time a free State; and they have
been also warned by the fate which has befallen those of their race in
Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon that at no distant day they too would be
compelled to surrender their country at the demand of Northern
rapacity, and be content with an extinct nationality, and with
reserves of limited extent for individuals, of which their people
would soon be despoiled by speculators, if not plundered
unscrupulously by the State."
Where are the Cherokees, the Chocktaws, the Seminoles and the
Chickasaws (or their descendants) now? For that matter, where are the
descendants of the Americans who also relied on Divine Providence in
declaring themselves an independent nation as did the Cherokees?
Another excerpt from the Cherokee Declaration of Independence:
"Menaced by a great danger, they exercise the inalienable right of
self-defense, and declare themselves a free people, independent of the
Northern States of America, and at war with them by their own act.
Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety
and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true
to the obligations of duty and honor, they accept the issue thus
forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and FOREVER with those of
the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and
with entire confidence in the justice of that cause and with a firm
reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the
consequences." (Tahlequah, C. N., October 28, 1861) [emphasis added]
How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
good of all is beyond me. Perhaps time is getting short and the
sidelines are disappearing.
Here's an exerpt from the U.S. Declaration of Independence which
explains to a small degree, just what it was that helped make time
finally run out....
"We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their
legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have
reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement
here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we
have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these
usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and
correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of
consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which
denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of
mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends." (Declaration of
Independence)
Makes one wonder what would happen if men of such conviction were to
appear on the scene this day and time doesn't it?
Just who are the real "racists" among us anyways? Why did native
Americans side with the southern Confederacy as opposed to the yankees
of the north?
And lastly, why the hell wasn't any of this stuff in my high school
history books? Was it in yours?
Jd
"As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the
Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do
whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense
unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as
we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes...."
(Jeremiah 44:16-17)
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
11 Oct 2004 11:39:11 AM |
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In article <Xns957EA68A09A6ETEMPERANTIALIBERTASE¸.32.252.50> Midjis < @ . > writes:
<Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<
<> How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
<> into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
<> good of all is beyond me. Perhaps time is getting short and the
<> sidelines are disappearing.
<
<What, exactly, does any of this have to do with Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis?
<Sorry, I mean the GAIA Hypothesis (almost forget the vital
<overcapitalisation there).
<
To quote our own Archibald MacLeish" "nothing, nothing nothing -- nothing at all"
-- cary
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
11 Oct 2004 11:31:04 AM |
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In article <pmmhm0ho2vscargod4h0ph2h2ekeb1beis@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<It's official now. The Aryan Nation has moved it's headquarters from
<Idaho to Alabama. As a resident of Alabama, I naturally became curious
<over the matter and began an small inquiry among folks I knew. The
<initial results convinced me that a further peek into the matter was
<definitely in order.
<
<Who knows where this will end up.
<
<Back in 1861, the Cherokee Nation along with representatives of the
<Creek, Seminole, Chocktaw and Chickasaw native American Indian tribes,
<recognized the danger of the neo-yankee empire, and declared its
<independence from the Union and allied itself with the Confederacy...
<i.e. the south... forever.
<
<Here is an exerpt from the 1861 Cherokee Nations Declaration of
<Independence:
<
<"Urged by these considerations, the Cherokees, long divided in
<opinion, became unanimous, and like their brethren, the Creeks,
<Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, determined, by the undivided
<voice of a General Convention of all the people, held at Tahlequah, on
<the 21st day of August, in the present year, to make common cause with
<the South and share its fortunes.
<
<In now carrying this resolution into effect and consummating a treaty
<of alliance and friendship with the Confederate States of America the
<Cherokee people declares that it has been faithful and loyal to is
<engagements with the United States until, by placing its safety and
<even its national existence in imminent peril, those States have
<released them from those engagements." - (The Cherokee Nation's
<Declaration of Independence - Published: 10/28/1861)
<
<From the same Declaration, it is seen that the Cherokees knew in
<advance that the promise of liberty (annulment of slavery, etc. etc.)
<was only a guise and that extiction of their race and the plunder of
<their land would soon follow...
<
<"The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war
<commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the
<powers of government of the United States would be to annul the
<institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what
<they term free territory and after a time a free State; and they have
<been also warned by the fate which has befallen those of their race in
<Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon that at no distant day they too would be
<compelled to surrender their country at the demand of Northern
<rapacity, and be content with an extinct nationality, and with
<reserves of limited extent for individuals, of which their people
<would soon be despoiled by speculators, if not plundered
<unscrupulously by the State."
<
<Where are the Cherokees, the Chocktaws, the Seminoles and the
<Chickasaws (or their descendants) now? For that matter, where are the
<descendants of the Americans who also relied on Divine Providence in
<declaring themselves an independent nation as did the Cherokees?
<
<Another excerpt from the Cherokee Declaration of Independence:
<
<"Menaced by a great danger, they exercise the inalienable right of
<self-defense, and declare themselves a free people, independent of the
<Northern States of America, and at war with them by their own act.
<Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety
<and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true
<to the obligations of duty and honor, they accept the issue thus
<forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and FOREVER with those of
<the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and
<with entire confidence in the justice of that cause and with a firm
<reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the
<consequences." (Tahlequah, C. N., October 28, 1861) [emphasis added]
<
<How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
<into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
<good of all is beyond me. Perhaps time is getting short and the
<sidelines are disappearing.
So, you're telling us ... what, exactly? That you're planning
to secede from the planet?
<
<Here's an exerpt from the U.S. Declaration of Independence which
<explains to a small degree, just what it was that helped make time
<finally run out....
<
<"We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their
<legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have
<reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement
<here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we
<have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these
<usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and
<correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of
<consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which
<denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of
<mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends." (Declaration of
<Independence)
<
<Makes one wonder what would happen if men of such conviction were to
<appear on the scene this day and time doesn't it?
<
<Just who are the real "racists" among us anyways? Why did native
<Americans side with the southern Confederacy as opposed to the yankees
<of the north?
<
<And lastly, why the hell wasn't any of this stuff in my high school
<history books? Was it in yours?
You're right, this was very interesting.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
13 Oct 2004 10:44:20 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <pmmhm0ho2vscargod4h0ph2h2ekeb1beis@4ax.com> Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> writes:
<It's official now. The Aryan Nation has moved it's headquarters from
<Idaho to Alabama. As a resident of Alabama, I naturally became curious
<over the matter and began an small inquiry among folks I knew. The
<initial results convinced me that a further peek into the matter was
<definitely in order.
<
<Who knows where this will end up.
<
<Back in 1861, the Cherokee Nation along with representatives of the
<Creek, Seminole, Chocktaw and Chickasaw native American Indian tribes,
<recognized the danger of the neo-yankee empire, and declared its
<independence from the Union and allied itself with the Confederacy...
<i.e. the south... forever.
<
<Here is an exerpt from the 1861 Cherokee Nations Declaration of
<Independence:
<
<"Urged by these considerations, the Cherokees, long divided in
<opinion, became unanimous, and like their brethren, the Creeks,
<Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, determined, by the undivided
<voice of a General Convention of all the people, held at Tahlequah, on
<the 21st day of August, in the present year, to make common cause with
<the South and share its fortunes.
<
<In now carrying this resolution into effect and consummating a treaty
<of alliance and friendship with the Confederate States of America the
<Cherokee people declares that it has been faithful and loyal to is
<engagements with the United States until, by placing its safety and
<even its national existence in imminent peril, those States have
<released them from those engagements." - (The Cherokee Nation's
<Declaration of Independence - Published: 10/28/1861)
<
<From the same Declaration, it is seen that the Cherokees knew in
<advance that the promise of liberty (annulment of slavery, etc. etc.)
<was only a guise and that extiction of their race and the plunder of
<their land would soon follow...
<
<"The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war
<commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the
<powers of government of the United States would be to annul the
<institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what
<they term free territory and after a time a free State; and they have
<been also warned by the fate which has befallen those of their race in
<Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon that at no distant day they too would be
<compelled to surrender their country at the demand of Northern
<rapacity, and be content with an extinct nationality, and with
<reserves of limited extent for individuals, of which their people
<would soon be despoiled by speculators, if not plundered
<unscrupulously by the State."
<
<Where are the Cherokees, the Chocktaws, the Seminoles and the
<Chickasaws (or their descendants) now? For that matter, where are the
<descendants of the Americans who also relied on Divine Providence in
<declaring themselves an independent nation as did the Cherokees?
<
<Another excerpt from the Cherokee Declaration of Independence:
<
<"Menaced by a great danger, they exercise the inalienable right of
<self-defense, and declare themselves a free people, independent of the
<Northern States of America, and at war with them by their own act.
<Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety
<and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true
<to the obligations of duty and honor, they accept the issue thus
<forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and FOREVER with those of
<the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and
<with entire confidence in the justice of that cause and with a firm
<reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the
<consequences." (Tahlequah, C. N., October 28, 1861) [emphasis added]
<
<How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
<into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
<good of all is beyond me. Perhaps time is getting short and the
<sidelines are disappearing.
So, you're telling us ... what, exactly? That you're planning
to secede from the planet?
Nope. But I've heard of a 10 year plan... nevermind.
I have found that negroes are far more comfortable living here in the
south than up north where those hypocritical yankee wannabe
"liberators" live.
You live in an imaginary world. And a dangerous one now that you've
turned from Christ.
Jd
Hebews 10:28-29 "He that despised Moses' law died without
mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment,
suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot
the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith
he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the
Spirit of grace?"
.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
14 Oct 2004 11:25:30 AM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
You live in an imaginary world. And a dangerous one now that you've
turned from Christ.
It is dangerous for those who do not follow Christ. They are endangered by
those who do. At least, by those who claim to respect the message Jesus
supposedly taught, yet use every opportunity to exploit it or circumvent it
to their own advantage.
--
Midjis
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
10 Oct 2004 10:22:16 AM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
good of all is beyond me. Perhaps time is getting short and the
sidelines are disappearing.
What, exactly, does any of this have to do with Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis?
Sorry, I mean the GAIA Hypothesis (almost forget the vital
overcapitalisation there).
--
Midjis
.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
13 Oct 2004 10:44:18 PM |
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Midjis wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
good of all is beyond me. Perhaps time is getting short and the
sidelines are disappearing.
What, exactly, does any of this have to do with Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis?
Sorry, I mean the GAIA Hypothesis (almost forget the vital
overcapitalisation there).
Who said anything about Lovelock?
Jd
.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
14 Oct 2004 11:23:53 AM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
What, exactly, does any of this have to do with Lovelock's Gaia
Hypothesis? Sorry, I mean the GAIA Hypothesis (almost forget the
vital overcapitalisation there).
Who said anything about Lovelock?
Do not backpedal, JD - it is most unbecoming.
--
Midjis
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
10 Oct 2004 06:41:57 AM |
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Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
It's official now. The Aryan Nation has moved it's headquarters from
Idaho to Alabama. As a resident of Alabama, I naturally became curious
over the matter and began an small inquiry among folks I knew. The
initial results convinced me that a further peek into the matter was
definitely in order.
Who knows where this will end up.
You'll probably join them.
Back in 1861, the Cherokee Nation along with representatives of the
Creek, Seminole, Chocktaw and Chickasaw native American Indian tribes,
recognized the danger of the neo-yankee empire, and declared its
independence from the Union and allied itself with the Confederacy...
i.e. the south... forever.
I smell a wombat.
Here is an exerpt from the 1861 Cherokee Nations Declaration of
Independence:
"Urged by these considerations, the Cherokees, long divided in
opinion, became unanimous, and like their brethren, the Creeks,
Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, determined, by the undivided
voice of a General Convention of all the people, held at Tahlequah, on
the 21st day of August, in the present year, to make common cause with
the South and share its fortunes.
In now carrying this resolution into effect and consummating a treaty
of alliance and friendship with the Confederate States of America the
Cherokee people declares that it has been faithful and loyal to is
engagements with the United States until, by placing its safety and
even its national existence in imminent peril, those States have
released them from those engagements." - (The Cherokee Nation's
Declaration of Independence - Published: 10/28/1861)
From the same Declaration, it is seen that the Cherokees knew in
advance that the promise of liberty (annulment of slavery, etc. etc.)
was only a guise and that extiction of their race and the plunder of
their land would soon follow...
You do realize that it was primarily Southerners that were doing that
extincting and plundering, don't you? The Trail of Tears led straight
across the South, passing through Alabama.
"The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war
commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the
powers of government of the United States would be to annul the
institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what
they term free territory and after a time a free State; and they have
been also warned by the fate which has befallen those of their race in
Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon that at no distant day they too would be
compelled to surrender their country at the demand of Northern
rapacity, and be content with an extinct nationality, and with
reserves of limited extent for individuals, of which their people
would soon be despoiled by speculators, if not plundered
unscrupulously by the State."
Where are the Cherokees, the Chocktaws, the Seminoles and the
Chickasaws (or their descendants) now?
All over the United States. I have several friends with some Cherokee
ancestry. Possibly some from the other nations.
For that matter, where are the
descendants of the Americans who also relied on Divine Providence in
declaring themselves an independent nation as did the Cherokees?
Also here, though they realized that they needed to rely on their
fellow citizens, and their duty to their nation to get through. After
all, both the Union and the Confederacy "relied on Divine Providence"
to win, so obviously either God must have chosen the better side, or
Divine Providence was irrelevant and it was Human Providence that did
the trick. Which explanation do you prefer?
Another excerpt from the Cherokee Declaration of Independence:
"Menaced by a great danger, they exercise the inalienable right of
self-defense, and declare themselves a free people, independent of the
Northern States of America, and at war with them by their own act.
Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety
and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true
to the obligations of duty and honor, they accept the issue thus
forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and FOREVER with those of
the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and
with entire confidence in the justice of that cause and with a firm
reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the
consequences." (Tahlequah, C. N., October 28, 1861) [emphasis added]
How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
good of all is beyond me.
I can't imaging that anyone believes that "GAIA's peepers", whatever
they are, are fighting more than any citizen must fight for the common
good.
Perhaps time is getting short and the sidelines are disappearing.
The side that had Divine Providence already won. It wasn't the
Confederacy.
Here's an exerpt from the U.S. Declaration of Independence which
explains to a small degree, just what it was that helped make time
finally run out....
"We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their
legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have
reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement
here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we
have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these
usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and
correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of
consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which
denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of
mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends." (Declaration of
Independence)
Makes one wonder what would happen if men of such conviction were to
appear on the scene this day and time doesn't it?
They'd end up in Gitmo Bay, guarded by the defenders of freedom acting
under the orders of Dubya.
Just who are the real "racists" among us anyways?
You qualify.
Why did native
Americans side with the southern Confederacy as opposed to the yankees
of the north?
Try reading some history, and you'll find out. The story isn't what
you think it is.
Try this site for a summary. It had nothing to do with Divine
Providence and everything to do with being occupied by the Confederate
Army, pressed by Confederate agents, and having the Union at the
moment on the strategic defensive.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/unionconfedindians.htm
And lastly, why the hell wasn't any of this stuff in my high school
history books?
Because they get to spend less than a month on the Civil War, and
there is too much else to cover. The war in the West was significant
overall, but did not capture the public attention of the time any more
than at present, compared to the battles in Virginia. Meanwhile, the
Indian part won't be on the Dubya-inspired NCLB tests, so they can't
waste time on it.
The role of the Indians is in serious college level books on the Civil
War. I wouldn't doubt that there is something about it in the new
Smithsonian museum on the American Indian (which I haven't been to -
the lines to get in remain long).
Was it in yours?
Nope. Not much else about the American Indian in my history books
either. But that was in the 60s. I think they do better now, but
NCLB doesn't encourage studying anything in depth.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
13 Oct 2004 10:44:18 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
It's official now. The Aryan Nation has moved it's headquarters from
Idaho to Alabama. As a resident of Alabama, I naturally became curious
over the matter and began an small inquiry among folks I knew. The
initial results convinced me that a further peek into the matter was
definitely in order.
Who knows where this will end up.
You'll probably join them.
Back in 1861, the Cherokee Nation along with representatives of the
Creek, Seminole, Chocktaw and Chickasaw native American Indian tribes,
recognized the danger of the neo-yankee empire, and declared its
independence from the Union and allied itself with the Confederacy...
i.e. the south... forever.
I smell a wombat.
Here is an exerpt from the 1861 Cherokee Nations Declaration of
Independence:
"Urged by these considerations, the Cherokees, long divided in
opinion, became unanimous, and like their brethren, the Creeks,
Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, determined, by the undivided
voice of a General Convention of all the people, held at Tahlequah, on
the 21st day of August, in the present year, to make common cause with
the South and share its fortunes.
In now carrying this resolution into effect and consummating a treaty
of alliance and friendship with the Confederate States of America the
Cherokee people declares that it has been faithful and loyal to is
engagements with the United States until, by placing its safety and
even its national existence in imminent peril, those States have
released them from those engagements." - (The Cherokee Nation's
Declaration of Independence - Published: 10/28/1861)
From the same Declaration, it is seen that the Cherokees knew in
advance that the promise of liberty (annulment of slavery, etc. etc.)
was only a guise and that extiction of their race and the plunder of
their land would soon follow...
You do realize that it was primarily Southerners that were doing that
extincting and plundering, don't you? The Trail of Tears led straight
across the South, passing through Alabama.
"The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war
commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the
powers of government of the United States would be to annul the
institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what
they term free territory and after a time a free State; and they have
been also warned by the fate which has befallen those of their race in
Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon that at no distant day they too would be
compelled to surrender their country at the demand of Northern
rapacity, and be content with an extinct nationality, and with
reserves of limited extent for individuals, of which their people
would soon be despoiled by speculators, if not plundered
unscrupulously by the State."
Where are the Cherokees, the Chocktaws, the Seminoles and the
Chickasaws (or their descendants) now?
All over the United States. I have several friends with some Cherokee
ancestry. Possibly some from the other nations.
For that matter, where are the
descendants of the Americans who also relied on Divine Providence in
declaring themselves an independent nation as did the Cherokees?
Also here, though they realized that they needed to rely on their
fellow citizens, and their duty to their nation to get through. After
all, both the Union and the Confederacy "relied on Divine Providence"
to win, so obviously either God must have chosen the better side, or
Divine Providence was irrelevant and it was Human Providence that did
the trick. Which explanation do you prefer?
Another excerpt from the Cherokee Declaration of Independence:
"Menaced by a great danger, they exercise the inalienable right of
self-defense, and declare themselves a free people, independent of the
Northern States of America, and at war with them by their own act.
Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety
and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true
to the obligations of duty and honor, they accept the issue thus
forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and FOREVER with those of
the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and
with entire confidence in the justice of that cause and with a firm
reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the
consequences." (Tahlequah, C. N., October 28, 1861) [emphasis added]
How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
good of all is beyond me.
I can't imaging that anyone believes that "GAIA's peepers", whatever
they are, are fighting more than any citizen must fight for the common
good.
Perhaps time is getting short and the sidelines are disappearing.
The side that had Divine Providence already won. It wasn't the
Confederacy.
Here's an exerpt from the U.S. Declaration of Independence which
explains to a small degree, just what it was that helped make time
finally run out....
"We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their
legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have
reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement
here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we
have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these
usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and
correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of
consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which
denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of
mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends." (Declaration of
Independence)
Makes one wonder what would happen if men of such conviction were to
appear on the scene this day and time doesn't it?
They'd end up in Gitmo Bay, guarded by the defenders of freedom acting
under the orders of Dubya.
Just who are the real "racists" among us anyways?
You qualify.
Why did native
Americans side with the southern Confederacy as opposed to the yankees
of the north?
Try reading some history, and you'll find out. The story isn't what
you think it is.
Try this site for a summary. It had nothing to do with Divine
Providence and everything to do with being occupied by the Confederate
Army, pressed by Confederate agents, and having the Union at the
moment on the strategic defensive.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/unionconfedindians.htm
And lastly, why the hell wasn't any of this stuff in my high school
history books?
Because they get to spend less than a month on the Civil War, and
there is too much else to cover. The war in the West was significant
overall, but did not capture the public attention of the time any more
than at present, compared to the battles in Virginia. Meanwhile, the
Indian part won't be on the Dubya-inspired NCLB tests, so they can't
waste time on it.
The role of the Indians is in serious college level books on the Civil
War. I wouldn't doubt that there is something about it in the new
Smithsonian museum on the American Indian (which I haven't been to -
the lines to get in remain long).
Was it in yours?
Nope. Not much else about the American Indian in my history books
either. But that was in the 60s. I think they do better now, but
NCLB doesn't encourage studying anything in depth.
lojbab
You, Kerry, and all leftists are just looking for your Pope in order
to start another inquistion.
The real question is....will the fascists allow it?
And I realize this may be over everyone's head but perhaps your's,
seeing you know your history so well and at times,can read between the
lines.
Jd
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
11 Oct 2004 11:37:19 AM |
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In article <g96im0hsdnl9438q2c4e57bibi583opjfh@4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> writes:
<Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
<
{...}
<
<>Why did native
<>Americans side with the southern Confederacy as opposed to the yankees
<>of the north?
<
<Try reading some history, and you'll find out. The story isn't what
<you think it is.
<
<Try this site for a summary. It had nothing to do with Divine
<Providence and everything to do with being occupied by the Confederate
<Army, pressed by Confederate agents, and having the Union at the
<moment on the strategic defensive.
<
<http://www.civilwarhome.com/unionconfedindians.htm
Well, whaddya know? The answer to JDay's question is that:
In the fall of 1861, Colonel Douglas H. Cooper, commanding the department
of Indian operations under authority from the Confederate Government, made
several ineffectual efforts to have a conference with the old chief of for
the purpose of effecting a peaceful settlement of the difficulties that
were dividing the nation into two hostile camps. Finding Hopoeithleyhola
unwavering in his loyalty to the United States, Colonel Cooper determined
to force him into submission, destroy his power, or drive him out of the
country, and at once commenced collecting forces, composed mostly of white
troops, to attack him. In November and December, 1861, the battles of
Chusto Talasah and Chustenhlah were fought, and the loyal Indians finally
were defeated and forced to retire to Kansas in midwinter.
is that the Confederates destroyed the Cherokee forces who didn't see
things their way.
-- cary
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: How GAIA' creeps, sleeps, shows & blows |
11 Oct 2004 10:09:46 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 6:41:57 -0500, Bob LeChevalier wrote
(in message <g96im0hsdnl9438q2c4e57bibi583opjfh@4ax.com>):
Jd <Jd.wuzhere@att.net> wrote:
It's official now. The Aryan Nation has moved it's headquarters from
Idaho to Alabama. As a resident of Alabama, I naturally became curious
over the matter and began an small inquiry among folks I knew. The
initial results convinced me that a further peek into the matter was
definitely in order.
Who knows where this will end up.
You'll probably join them.
Back in 1861, the Cherokee Nation along with representatives of the
Creek, Seminole, Chocktaw and Chickasaw native American Indian tribes,
recognized the danger of the neo-yankee empire, and declared its
independence from the Union and allied itself with the Confederacy...
i.e. the south... forever.
I smell a wombat.
Here is an exerpt from the 1861 Cherokee Nations Declaration of
Independence:
"Urged by these considerations, the Cherokees, long divided in
opinion, became unanimous, and like their brethren, the Creeks,
Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws, determined, by the undivided
voice of a General Convention of all the people, held at Tahlequah, on
the 21st day of August, in the present year, to make common cause with
the South and share its fortunes.
In now carrying this resolution into effect and consummating a treaty
of alliance and friendship with the Confederate States of America the
Cherokee people declares that it has been faithful and loyal to is
engagements with the United States until, by placing its safety and
even its national existence in imminent peril, those States have
released them from those engagements." - (The Cherokee Nation's
Declaration of Independence - Published: 10/28/1861)
From the same Declaration, it is seen that the Cherokees knew in
advance that the promise of liberty (annulment of slavery, etc. etc.)
was only a guise and that extiction of their race and the plunder of
their land would soon follow...
You do realize that it was primarily Southerners that were doing that
extincting and plundering, don't you? The Trail of Tears led straight
across the South, passing through Alabama.
The Trail of Tears was the illegal action of President Andrew Jackson who
moved the Cherokees because he "felt like it".
This is from:
<http://www.rosecity.net/tears/trail/tearsnht.html>
--------------------------------------------------------
Between 1816 and 1840, tribes located between the original states and the
Mississippi River, including Cherokees, Chickasaws, Choctaws, Creeks, and
Seminoles, signed more than 40 treaties ceding their lands to the U.S. In his
1829 inaugural address, President Andrew Jackson set a policy to relocate
eastern Indians. In 1830 it was endorsed, when Congress passed the Indian
Removal Act to force those remaining to move west of the Mississippi. Between
1830 and 1850, about 100,000 American Indians living between Michigan,
Louisiana, and Florida moved west after the U.S. government coerced treaties
or used the U.S. Army against those resisting. Many were treated brutally. An
estimated 3,500 Creeks died in Alabama and on their westward journey. Some
were transported in chains.
[snip]
Historically, Cherokees occupied lands in several southeastern states. As
European settlers arrived, Cherokees traded and intermarried with them. They
began to adopt European customs and gradually turned to an agricultural
economy, while being pressured to give up traditional homelands. Between 1721
and 1819, over 90 percent of their lands were ceded to others. By the 1820s,
Sequoyah's syllabary brought literacy and a formal governing system with a
written constitution. In 1830--the same year the Indian Removal Act was
passed--gold was found on Cherokee lands. Georgia held lotteries to give
Cherokee land and gold rights to whites. Cherokees were not allowed to
conduct tribal business, contract, testify in courts against whites, or mine
for gold.
The Cherokees successfully challenged Georgia in the U.S. Supreme Court.
President Jackson, when hearing of the Court's decision, reportedly said,
"[Chief Justice] John Marshall has made his decision; let him enforce it now
if he can.
--------------------------------------------------------
"The Cherokee people and their neighbors were warned before the war
commenced that the first object of the party which now holds the
powers of government of the United States would be to annul the
institution of slavery in the whole Indian country, and make it what
they term free territory and after a time a free State; and they have
been also warned by the fate which has befallen those of their race in
Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon that at no distant day they too would be
compelled to surrender their country at the demand of Northern
rapacity, and be content with an extinct nationality, and with
reserves of limited extent for individuals, of which their people
would soon be despoiled by speculators, if not plundered
unscrupulously by the State."
Where are the Cherokees, the Chocktaws, the Seminoles and the
Chickasaws (or their descendants) now?
The Eastern Band of Cherokee is located in the western hills of North
Carolina; the Western Cherokee are mostly in Arkansas and Missouri with a
few of the "Old Settlers" prolly still in Arkansas (one of my grandmothers).
The Choctaw that I know are in Mississippi (I went through Army Basic
Training with two of them).
The Seminole still exist in Florida and, iirc, they are the only armed force
from within the United States that has never surrendered.
The Chickasaw nation is located in south-central Oklahoma.
All over the United States. I have several friends with some Cherokee
ancestry. Possibly some from the other nations.
For that matter, where are the
descendants of the Americans who also relied on Divine Providence in
declaring themselves an independent nation as did the Cherokees?
The ones who relied on " Divine Providence" were killed by the English and
their Hessians.
The ones who relied on their armament are the ancestors of many of us.
Also here, though they realized that they needed to rely on their
fellow citizens, and their duty to their nation to get through. After
all, both the Union and the Confederacy "relied on Divine Providence"
to win, so obviously either God must have chosen the better side, or
Divine Providence was irrelevant and it was Human Providence that did
the trick. Which explanation do you prefer?
Another excerpt from the Cherokee Declaration of Independence:
"Menaced by a great danger, they exercise the inalienable right of
self-defense, and declare themselves a free people, independent of the
Northern States of America, and at war with them by their own act.
Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety
and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true
to the obligations of duty and honor, they accept the issue thus
forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and FOREVER with those of
the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and
with entire confidence in the justice of that cause and with a firm
reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the
consequences." (Tahlequah, C. N., October 28, 1861) [emphasis added]
How GAIA's peepers are still, to this very day, able to dupe folks
into believing that they are fighting on their behalf for the common
good of all is beyond me.
I can't imaging that anyone believes that "GAIA's peepers", whatever
they are, are fighting more than any citizen must fight for the common
good.
Perhaps time is getting short and the sidelines are disappearing.
And, then again, there have been con-men claiming that "time is getting short
and the sidelines are disappearing" since - basically - the beginnings of
time. Of course, we all remember the Y2K disasters that proved the weirdo's
and the wack's knew exactly and precisely what they were talking about, don't
we now?
You're probably another one of those who refuse to recognize that the Rapture
happened in 1988 and that everyone born before then, that is still here, has
been found out. [That's where I got my truck - the people riding in it were
Raptured up. Unfortunately, The Big Guy has some real problems with material
thingies and both people went through the roof of the truck and, unless they
were going pretty fast, bled to death on their reverse parachute drop.
The side that had Divine Providence already won. It wasn't the
Confederacy.
Of course not.
"God protects drunks, fools and the United States of America."
Here's an exerpt from the U.S. Declaration of Independence which
explains to a small degree, just what it was that helped make time
finally run out....
"We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their
legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have
reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement
here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we
have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these
usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and
correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of
consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which
denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of
mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends." (Declaration of
Independence)
Makes one wonder what would happen if men of such conviction were to
appear on the scene this day and time doesn't it?
They'd end up in Gitmo Bay, guarded by the defenders of freedom acting
under the orders of Dubya.
Just who are the real "racists" among us anyways?
You qualify.
Why did native
Americans side with the southern Confederacy as opposed to the yankees
of the north?
Try reading some history, and you'll find out. The story isn't what
you think it is.
Try this site for a summary. It had nothing to do with Divine
Providence and everything to do with being occupied by the Confederate
Army, pressed by Confederate agents, and having the Union at the
moment on the strategic defensive.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/unionconfedindians.htm
And lastly, why the hell wasn't any of this stuff in my high school
history books?
Because your state board which selects text books was composed of a bunch of
whining, sniveling communists who you should have been raped in your sex
education classes. (Well, or somethin, anyways.)
Because they get to spend less than a month on the Civil War, and
there is too much else to cover. The war in the West was significant
overall, but did not capture the public attention of the time any more
than at present, compared to the battles in Virginia. Meanwhile, the
Indian part won't be on the Dubya-inspired NCLB tests, so they can't
waste time on it.
The role of the Indians is in serious college level books on the Civil
War. I wouldn't doubt that there is something about it in the new
Smithsonian museum on the American Indian (which I haven't been to -
the lines to get in remain long).
Was it in yours?
We didn't need it; we were allowed to listen to Johnny Cash.
Nope. Not much else about the American Indian in my history books
either. But that was in the 60s. I think they do better now, but
NCLB doesn't encourage studying anything in depth.
lojbab
NCLB is enforced mediocrity.
With George W Bush as President, why is that not surprising?
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier
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