I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 30 May 2007 12:34:00 AM
Object: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
By David Evans
Posted on 5/28/2007
http://www.mises.org/story/2571#
I devoted six years to carbon accounting, building models for the
Australian government to estimate carbon emissions from land use
change and forestry. When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that
carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty conclusive, but
since then new evidence has weakened that case. I am now skeptical.
In the late 1990s, this was the evidence suggesting that carbon
emissions caused global warming:
Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, proved in a laboratory a century
ago.
Global warming has been occurring for a century and concentrations of
atmospheric carbon have been rising for a century. Correlation is not
causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a fit.
Ice core data, starting with the first cores from Vostok in 1985,
allowed us to measure temperature and atmospheric carbon going back
hundreds of thousands of years, through several dramatic global
warming and cooling events. To the temporal resolution then available
(data points more than a thousand years apart), atmospheric carbon and
temperature moved in lockstep: they rose and fell together. Talk about
a smoking gun!
There were no other credible causes of global warming.
This evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we are absolutely
certain when we apparently need to act now? So the idea that carbon
emissions were causing global warming passed from the scientific
community into the political realm. Research increased, bureaucracies
were formed, international committees met, and eventually the Kyoto
protocol was signed in 1997 to curb carbon emissions.
"Correlation is not causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a
fit."
The political realm in turn fed money back into the scientific
community. By the late 1990s, lots of jobs depended on the idea that
carbon emissions caused global warming. Many of them were
bureaucratic, but there were a lot of science jobs created too.
I was on that gravy train, making a high wage in a science job that
would not have existed if we didn't believe carbon emissions caused
global warming. And so were lots of people around me; there were
international conferences full of such people. We had political
support, the ear of government, big budgets. We felt fairly important
and useful (I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the
planet!
But starting in about 2000, the last three of the four pieces of
evidence above fell away. Using the same point numbers as above:
Better data shows that from 1940 to 1975 the earth cooled while
atmospheric carbon increased. That 35 year non-correlation might
eventually be explained by global dimming, only discovered in about
2003.
The temporal resolution of the ice core data improved. By 2004 we knew
that in past warming events, the temperature increases generally
started about 800 years before the rises in atmospheric carbon.
Causality does not run in the direction I had assumed in 1999 — it
runs the opposite way!
It took several hundred years of warming for the oceans to give off
more of their carbon. This proves that there is a cause of global
warming other than atmospheric carbon. And while it is possible that
rising atmospheric carbon in these past warmings then went on to cause
more warming ("amplification" of the initial warming), the ice core
data neither proves nor disproves this hypothesis.
There is now a credible alternative suspect. In October 2006 Henrik
Svensmark showed experimentally that cosmic rays cause cloud
formation. Clouds have a net cooling effect, but for the last three
decades there have been fewer clouds than normal because the sun's
magnetic field, which shields us from cosmic rays, has been stronger
than usual. So the earth heated up. It's too early to judge what
fraction of global warming is caused by cosmic rays.

There is now no observational evidence that global warming is caused
by carbon emissions. You would think that in over 20 years of intense
investigation we would have found something. For example, greenhouse
warming due to carbon emissions should warm the upper atmosphere
faster than the lower atmosphere — but until 2006 the data showed the
opposite, and thus that the greenhouse effect was not occurring! In
2006 better data allowed that the effect might be occurring, except in
the tropics.
The only current "evidence" for blaming carbon emissions are
scientific models (and the fact that there are few contradictory
observations). Historically, science has not progressed by
calculations and models, but by repeatable observations. Some theories
held by science authorities have turned out to be spectacularly wrong:
heavier-than-air flight is impossible, the sun orbits the earth, etc.
For excellent reasons, we have much more confidence in observations by
several independent parties than in models produced by a small set of
related parties!
Let's return to the interaction between science and politics. By 2000
the political system had responded to the strong scientific case that
carbon emissions caused global warming by creating thousands of
bureaucratic and science jobs aimed at more research and at curbing
carbon emissions.
"Science has not progressed by calculations and models, but by
repeatable observations."
But after 2000 the case against carbon emissions gradually got weaker.
Future evidence might strengthen or further weaken it. At what stage
of the weakening should the science community alert the political
system that carbon emissions might not be the main cause of global
warming?
None of the new evidence actually says that carbon emissions are
definitely not the cause of global warming, there are lots of good
science jobs potentially at stake, and if the scientific message
wavers then it might be difficult to later recapture the attention of
the political system. What has happened is that most research efforts
since 1990 have assumed that carbon emissions were the cause, and the
alternatives get much less research or political attention.
Unfortunately politics and science have become even more entangled.
Climate change has become a partisan political issue, so positions
become more entrenched. Politicians and the public prefer simple and
less-nuanced messages. At the moment the political climate strongly
blames carbon emissions, to the point of silencing critics.
The integrity of the scientific community will win out in the end,
following the evidence wherever it leads. But in the meantime, the
effect of the political climate is that most people are overestimating
the evidence that carbon emissions are the main cause of global
warming.
I recently bet $6,000 that the rate of global warming would slow in
the next two decades. Carbon emissions might be the dominant cause of
global warming, but I reckon that probability to be 20% rather than
the 90% the IPCC estimates.
I worry that politics could seriously distort the science. Suppose
that carbon taxes are widely enacted, but that the rate of global
warming increase starts to decline by 2015. The political system might
pressure scientists to provide justifications for the taxes.
$15
Imagine the following scenario. Carbon emissions cause some warming,
maybe 0.05C/decade. But the current warming rate of 0.20C/decade is
mainly due to some natural cause, which in 15 years has run its course
and reverses. So by 2025 global temperatures start dropping. In the
meantime, on the basis of models from a small group of climate
scientists but with no observational evidence (because the small
warming due to carbon emissions is masked by the larger natural
warming), the world has dutifully paid an enormous cost to curb carbon
emissions.
Politicians, expressing the anger and apparent futility of all the
unnecessary poverty and effort, lead the lynching of the high priests
with their opaque models. Ironically, because carbon emissions are
raising the temperature baseline around which natural variability
occurs, carbon emissions might need curbing after all. Maybe. The
current situation is characterized by a lack of observational
evidence, so no one knows yet.
Some people take strong rhetorical positions on global warming. But
the cause of global warming is not just another political issue,
subject to endless debate and distortions. The cause of global warming
is an issue that falls into the realm of science, because it is
falsifiable. No amount of human posturing will affect what the cause
is. It just physically is there, and after sufficient research and
time we will know what it is.
David Evans, a mathematician, and a computer and electrical engineer,
is head of Science Speak. Send him mail. Comment on the blog.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.

User: "Server 13"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 30 May 2007 09:40:02 AM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:7b2q53ldnkrg098m2kulb2cg4qo320nicf@4ax.com...

I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
By David Evans
Posted on 5/28/2007
http://www.mises.org/story/2571#

ROFLMAO


I devoted six years to carbon accounting, building models for the
Australian government to estimate carbon emissions from land use
change and forestry. When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that
carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty conclusive, but
since then new evidence has weakened that case. I am now skeptical.
In the late 1990s, this was the evidence suggesting that carbon
emissions caused global warming:

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, proved in a laboratory a century
ago.

Global warming has been occurring for a century and concentrations of
atmospheric carbon have been rising for a century. Correlation is not
causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a fit.

Ice core data, starting with the first cores from Vostok in 1985,
allowed us to measure temperature and atmospheric carbon going back
hundreds of thousands of years, through several dramatic global
warming and cooling events. To the temporal resolution then available
(data points more than a thousand years apart), atmospheric carbon and
temperature moved in lockstep: they rose and fell together. Talk about
a smoking gun!

There were no other credible causes of global warming.

This evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we are absolutely
certain when we apparently need to act now? So the idea that carbon
emissions were causing global warming passed from the scientific
community into the political realm. Research increased, bureaucracies
were formed, international committees met, and eventually the Kyoto
protocol was signed in 1997 to curb carbon emissions.

"Correlation is not causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a
fit."

The political realm in turn fed money back into the scientific
community. By the late 1990s, lots of jobs depended on the idea that
carbon emissions caused global warming. Many of them were
bureaucratic, but there were a lot of science jobs created too.

I was on that gravy train, making a high wage in a science job that
would not have existed if we didn't believe carbon emissions caused
global warming. And so were lots of people around me; there were
international conferences full of such people. We had political
support, the ear of government, big budgets. We felt fairly important
and useful (I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the
planet!

But starting in about 2000, the last three of the four pieces of
evidence above fell away. Using the same point numbers as above:
Better data shows that from 1940 to 1975 the earth cooled while
atmospheric carbon increased. That 35 year non-correlation might
eventually be explained by global dimming, only discovered in about
2003.

The temporal resolution of the ice core data improved. By 2004 we knew
that in past warming events, the temperature increases generally
started about 800 years before the rises in atmospheric carbon.
Causality does not run in the direction I had assumed in 1999 - it
runs the opposite way!

It took several hundred years of warming for the oceans to give off
more of their carbon. This proves that there is a cause of global
warming other than atmospheric carbon. And while it is possible that
rising atmospheric carbon in these past warmings then went on to cause
more warming ("amplification" of the initial warming), the ice core
data neither proves nor disproves this hypothesis.

There is now a credible alternative suspect. In October 2006 Henrik
Svensmark showed experimentally that cosmic rays cause cloud
formation. Clouds have a net cooling effect, but for the last three
decades there have been fewer clouds than normal because the sun's
magnetic field, which shields us from cosmic rays, has been stronger
than usual. So the earth heated up. It's too early to judge what
fraction of global warming is caused by cosmic rays.

Nope - very little. Nice try.
.

User: "Jerry Kraus"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 30 May 2007 10:16:52 AM
On May 30, 12:34 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:

I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
By David Evans
Posted on 5/28/2007http://www.mises.org/story/2571#

I devoted six years to carbon accounting, building models for the
Australian government to estimate carbon emissions from land use
change and forestry. When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that
carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty conclusive, but
since then new evidence has weakened that case. I am now skeptical.
In the late 1990s, this was the evidence suggesting that carbon
emissions caused global warming:

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, proved in a laboratory a century
ago.

Global warming has been occurring for a century and concentrations of
atmospheric carbon have been rising for a century. Correlation is not
causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a fit.

Ice core data, starting with the first cores from Vostok in 1985,
allowed us to measure temperature and atmospheric carbon going back
hundreds of thousands of years, through several dramatic global
warming and cooling events. To the temporal resolution then available
(data points more than a thousand years apart), atmospheric carbon and
temperature moved in lockstep: they rose and fell together. Talk about
a smoking gun!

There were no other credible causes of global warming.

This evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we are absolutely
certain when we apparently need to act now? So the idea that carbon
emissions were causing global warming passed from the scientific
community into the political realm. Research increased, bureaucracies
were formed, international committees met, and eventually the Kyoto
protocol was signed in 1997 to curb carbon emissions.

"Correlation is not causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a
fit."

The political realm in turn fed money back into the scientific
community. By the late 1990s, lots of jobs depended on the idea that
carbon emissions caused global warming. Many of them were
bureaucratic, but there were a lot of science jobs created too.

I was on that gravy train, making a high wage in a science job that
would not have existed if we didn't believe carbon emissions caused
global warming. And so were lots of people around me; there were
international conferences full of such people. We had political
support, the ear of government, big budgets. We felt fairly important
and useful (I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the
planet!

But starting in about 2000, the last three of the four pieces of
evidence above fell away. Using the same point numbers as above:
Better data shows that from 1940 to 1975 the earth cooled while
atmospheric carbon increased. That 35 year non-correlation might
eventually be explained by global dimming, only discovered in about
2003.

The temporal resolution of the ice core data improved. By 2004 we knew
that in past warming events, the temperature increases generally
started about 800 years before the rises in atmospheric carbon.
Causality does not run in the direction I had assumed in 1999 - it
runs the opposite way!

It took several hundred years of warming for the oceans to give off
more of their carbon. This proves that there is a cause of global
warming other than atmospheric carbon. And while it is possible that
rising atmospheric carbon in these past warmings then went on to cause
more warming ("amplification" of the initial warming), the ice core
data neither proves nor disproves this hypothesis.

There is now a credible alternative suspect. In October 2006 Henrik
Svensmark showed experimentally that cosmic rays cause cloud
formation. Clouds have a net cooling effect, but for the last three
decades there have been fewer clouds than normal because the sun's
magnetic field, which shields us from cosmic rays, has been stronger
than usual. So the earth heated up. It's too early to judge what
fraction of global warming is caused by cosmic rays.

There is now no observational evidence that global warming is caused
by carbon emissions. You would think that in over 20 years of intense
investigation we would have found something. For example, greenhouse
warming due to carbon emissions should warm the upper atmosphere
faster than the lower atmosphere - but until 2006 the data showed the
opposite, and thus that the greenhouse effect was not occurring! In
2006 better data allowed that the effect might be occurring, except in
the tropics.

The only current "evidence" for blaming carbon emissions are
scientific models (and the fact that there are few contradictory
observations). Historically, science has not progressed by
calculations and models, but by repeatable observations. Some theories
held by science authorities have turned out to be spectacularly wrong:
heavier-than-air flight is impossible, the sun orbits the earth, etc.
For excellent reasons, we have much more confidence in observations by
several independent parties than in models produced by a small set of
related parties!

Let's return to the interaction between science and politics. By 2000
the political system had responded to the strong scientific case that
carbon emissions caused global warming by creating thousands of
bureaucratic and science jobs aimed at more research and at curbing
carbon emissions.

"Science has not progressed by calculations and models, but by
repeatable observations."

But after 2000 the case against carbon emissions gradually got weaker.
Future evidence might strengthen or further weaken it. At what stage
of the weakening should the science community alert the political
system that carbon emissions might not be the main cause of global
warming?

None of the new evidence actually says that carbon emissions are
definitely not the cause of global warming, there are lots of good
science jobs potentially at stake, and if the scientific message
wavers then it might be difficult to later recapture the attention of
the political system. What has happened is that most research efforts
since 1990 have assumed that carbon emissions were the cause, and the
alternatives get much less research or political attention.

Unfortunately politics and science have become even more entangled.
Climate change has become a partisan political issue, so positions
become more entrenched. Politicians and the public prefer simple and
less-nuanced messages. At the moment the political climate strongly
blames carbon emissions, to the point of silencing critics.

The integrity of the scientific community will win out in the end,
following the evidence wherever it leads. But in the meantime, the
effect of the political climate is that most people are overestimating
the evidence that carbon emissions are the main cause of global
warming.

I recently bet $6,000 that the rate of global warming would slow in
the next two decades. Carbon emissions might be the dominant cause of
global warming, but I reckon that probability to be 20% rather than
the 90% the IPCC estimates.

I worry that politics could seriously distort the science. Suppose
that carbon taxes are widely enacted, but that the rate of global
warming increase starts to decline by 2015. The political system might
pressure scientists to provide justifications for the taxes.

$15

Imagine the following scenario. Carbon emissions cause some warming,
maybe 0.05C/decade. But the current warming rate of 0.20C/decade is
mainly due to some natural cause, which in 15 years has run its course
and reverses. So by 2025 global temperatures start dropping. In the
meantime, on the basis of models from a small group of climate
scientists but with no observational evidence (because the small
warming due to carbon emissions is masked by the larger natural
warming), the world has dutifully paid an enormous cost to curb carbon
emissions.

Politicians, expressing the anger and apparent futility of all the
unnecessary poverty and effort, lead the lynching of the high priests
with their opaque models. Ironically, because carbon emissions are
raising the temperature baseline around which natural variability
occurs, carbon emissions might need curbing after all. Maybe. The
current situation is characterized by a lack of observational
evidence, so no one knows yet.

Some people take strong rhetorical positions on global warming. But
the cause of global warming is not just another political issue,
subject to endless debate and distortions. The cause of global warming
is an issue that falls into the realm of science, because it is
falsifiable. No amount of human posturing will affect what the cause
is. It just physically is there, and after sufficient research and
time we will know what it is.

David Evans, a mathematician, and a computer and electrical engineer,
is head of Science Speak. Send him mail. Comment on the blog.

--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.

Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.

Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net

Global temperature seems to
have risen approximately 1 degree Farenheit in the last century. It
would depend on who, exactly, was doing the reporting, but estimates
seem to be in that range. So, how can ANYONE possibly have developed
a meaningful model to ACCURATELY and RELIABLY predict substantially
greater increases in temperature in the next hundred years? There is
no data to do this. NONE!!! But this doesn't stop an entire flock
of
quacks from doing just that. Predictions of up to 10 degrees or more
increases in temperature are being made by "scientists" for the
coming
hundred years. This is simple nonsense. Supported by quacks.
Endorsded by quacks.
Sure, one can generate a mathematical model to predict anything,
given
enough assumptions. But this is pure speculation. Science Fiction.
This is global warming.
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 30 May 2007 10:58:42 AM
On 30 May 2007 08:16:52 -0700, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1999@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On May 30, 12:34 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:

I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
By David Evans
Posted on 5/28/2007http://www.mises.org/story/2571#

I devoted six years to carbon accounting, building models for the
Australian government to estimate carbon emissions from land use
change and forestry. When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that
carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty conclusive, but
since then new evidence has weakened that case. I am now skeptical.
In the late 1990s, this was the evidence suggesting that carbon
emissions caused global warming:

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, proved in a laboratory a century
ago.

Global warming has been occurring for a century and concentrations of
atmospheric carbon have been rising for a century. Correlation is not
causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a fit.

Ice core data, starting with the first cores from Vostok in 1985,
allowed us to measure temperature and atmospheric carbon going back
hundreds of thousands of years, through several dramatic global
warming and cooling events. To the temporal resolution then available
(data points more than a thousand years apart), atmospheric carbon and
temperature moved in lockstep: they rose and fell together. Talk about
a smoking gun!

There were no other credible causes of global warming.

This evidence was not conclusive, but why wait until we are absolutely
certain when we apparently need to act now? So the idea that carbon
emissions were causing global warming passed from the scientific
community into the political realm. Research increased, bureaucracies
were formed, international committees met, and eventually the Kyoto
protocol was signed in 1997 to curb carbon emissions.

"Correlation is not causation, but in a rough sense it looked like a
fit."

The political realm in turn fed money back into the scientific
community. By the late 1990s, lots of jobs depended on the idea that
carbon emissions caused global warming. Many of them were
bureaucratic, but there were a lot of science jobs created too.

I was on that gravy train, making a high wage in a science job that
would not have existed if we didn't believe carbon emissions caused
global warming. And so were lots of people around me; there were
international conferences full of such people. We had political
support, the ear of government, big budgets. We felt fairly important
and useful (I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the
planet!

But starting in about 2000, the last three of the four pieces of
evidence above fell away. Using the same point numbers as above:
Better data shows that from 1940 to 1975 the earth cooled while
atmospheric carbon increased. That 35 year non-correlation might
eventually be explained by global dimming, only discovered in about
2003.

The temporal resolution of the ice core data improved. By 2004 we knew
that in past warming events, the temperature increases generally
started about 800 years before the rises in atmospheric carbon.
Causality does not run in the direction I had assumed in 1999 - it
runs the opposite way!

It took several hundred years of warming for the oceans to give off
more of their carbon. This proves that there is a cause of global
warming other than atmospheric carbon. And while it is possible that
rising atmospheric carbon in these past warmings then went on to cause
more warming ("amplification" of the initial warming), the ice core
data neither proves nor disproves this hypothesis.

There is now a credible alternative suspect. In October 2006 Henrik
Svensmark showed experimentally that cosmic rays cause cloud
formation. Clouds have a net cooling effect, but for the last three
decades there have been fewer clouds than normal because the sun's
magnetic field, which shields us from cosmic rays, has been stronger
than usual. So the earth heated up. It's too early to judge what
fraction of global warming is caused by cosmic rays.

There is now no observational evidence that global warming is caused
by carbon emissions. You would think that in over 20 years of intense
investigation we would have found something. For example, greenhouse
warming due to carbon emissions should warm the upper atmosphere
faster than the lower atmosphere - but until 2006 the data showed the
opposite, and thus that the greenhouse effect was not occurring! In
2006 better data allowed that the effect might be occurring, except in
the tropics.

The only current "evidence" for blaming carbon emissions are
scientific models (and the fact that there are few contradictory
observations). Historically, science has not progressed by
calculations and models, but by repeatable observations. Some theories
held by science authorities have turned out to be spectacularly wrong:
heavier-than-air flight is impossible, the sun orbits the earth, etc.
For excellent reasons, we have much more confidence in observations by
several independent parties than in models produced by a small set of
related parties!

Let's return to the interaction between science and politics. By 2000
the political system had responded to the strong scientific case that
carbon emissions caused global warming by creating thousands of
bureaucratic and science jobs aimed at more research and at curbing
carbon emissions.

"Science has not progressed by calculations and models, but by
repeatable observations."

But after 2000 the case against carbon emissions gradually got weaker.
Future evidence might strengthen or further weaken it. At what stage
of the weakening should the science community alert the political
system that carbon emissions might not be the main cause of global
warming?

None of the new evidence actually says that carbon emissions are
definitely not the cause of global warming, there are lots of good
science jobs potentially at stake, and if the scientific message
wavers then it might be difficult to later recapture the attention of
the political system. What has happened is that most research efforts
since 1990 have assumed that carbon emissions were the cause, and the
alternatives get much less research or political attention.

Unfortunately politics and science have become even more entangled.
Climate change has become a partisan political issue, so positions
become more entrenched. Politicians and the public prefer simple and
less-nuanced messages. At the moment the political climate strongly
blames carbon emissions, to the point of silencing critics.

The integrity of the scientific community will win out in the end,
following the evidence wherever it leads. But in the meantime, the
effect of the political climate is that most people are overestimating
the evidence that carbon emissions are the main cause of global
warming.

I recently bet $6,000 that the rate of global warming would slow in
the next two decades. Carbon emissions might be the dominant cause of
global warming, but I reckon that probability to be 20% rather than
the 90% the IPCC estimates.

I worry that politics could seriously distort the science. Suppose
that carbon taxes are widely enacted, but that the rate of global
warming increase starts to decline by 2015. The political system might
pressure scientists to provide justifications for the taxes.

$15

Imagine the following scenario. Carbon emissions cause some warming,
maybe 0.05C/decade. But the current warming rate of 0.20C/decade is
mainly due to some natural cause, which in 15 years has run its course
and reverses. So by 2025 global temperatures start dropping. In the
meantime, on the basis of models from a small group of climate
scientists but with no observational evidence (because the small
warming due to carbon emissions is masked by the larger natural
warming), the world has dutifully paid an enormous cost to curb carbon
emissions.

Politicians, expressing the anger and apparent futility of all the
unnecessary poverty and effort, lead the lynching of the high priests
with their opaque models. Ironically, because carbon emissions are
raising the temperature baseline around which natural variability
occurs, carbon emissions might need curbing after all. Maybe. The
current situation is characterized by a lack of observational
evidence, so no one knows yet.

Some people take strong rhetorical positions on global warming. But
the cause of global warming is not just another political issue,
subject to endless debate and distortions. The cause of global warming
is an issue that falls into the realm of science, because it is
falsifiable. No amount of human posturing will affect what the cause
is. It just physically is there, and after sufficient research and
time we will know what it is.

David Evans, a mathematician, and a computer and electrical engineer,
is head of Science Speak. Send him mail. Comment on the blog.

--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.

Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.

Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net


Global temperature seems to
have risen approximately 1 degree Farenheit in the last century. It
would depend on who, exactly, was doing the reporting, but estimates
seem to be in that range. So, how can ANYONE possibly have developed
a meaningful model to ACCURATELY and RELIABLY predict substantially
greater increases in temperature in the next hundred years? There is
no data to do this. NONE!!! But this doesn't stop an entire flock
of
quacks from doing just that. Predictions of up to 10 degrees or more
increases in temperature are being made by "scientists" for the
coming
hundred years. This is simple nonsense. Supported by quacks.
Endorsded by quacks.

Sure, one can generate a mathematical model to predict anything,
given
enough assumptions. But this is pure speculation. Science Fiction.
This is global warming.


"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral
evironmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest
chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
-- Christine Stewart, Minister of the Environment of Canada
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
User: "John Black"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 31 May 2007 10:55:34 AM
In article <jm7r53p9n74opsmfsv07dvreq0t6nu1bfc@4ax.com>,
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net says...

"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral
evironmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest
chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
-- Christine Stewart, Minister of the Environment of Canada

Holy Crap!
John Black
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
User: "Jerry Kraus"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 31 May 2007 11:03:19 AM
On May 31, 10:55 am, John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:

In article <jm7r53p9n74opsmfsv07dvreq0t6nu1...@4ax.com>,
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net says...

"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral
evironmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest
chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
-- Christine Stewart, Minister of the Environment of Canada


Holy Crap!

John Black

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

An extremely Canadian approach. Total hypocrisy as a universal ideal!
.


User: "Jerry Kraus"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 30 May 2007 01:10:28 PM
On May 30, 10:58 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:

On 30 May 2007 08:16:52 -0700, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On May 30, 12:34 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:

I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
By David Evans
Posted on 5/28/2007http://www.mises.org/story/2571#



Global temperature seems to
have risen approximately 1 degree Farenheit in the last century. It
would depend on who, exactly, was doing the reporting, but estimates
seem to be in that range. So, how can ANYONE possibly have developed
a meaningful model to ACCURATELY and RELIABLY predict substantially
greater increases in temperature in the next hundred years? There is
no data to do this. NONE!!! But this doesn't stop an entire flock
of
quacks from doing just that. Predictions of up to 10 degrees or more
increases in temperature are being made by "scientists" for the
coming
hundred years. This is simple nonsense. Supported by quacks.
Endorsded by quacks.


Sure, one can generate a mathematical model to predict anything,
given
enough assumptions. But this is pure speculation. Science Fiction.
This is global warming.


"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral
evironmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest
chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
-- Christine Stewart, Minister of the Environment of Canada

--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.

Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.

Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net

Sure. It could give us controlled nuclear fusion. It could also
straighten out professional science!!! ANYONE can now see what total
frauds most professional scientists are. Say anything for a buck, and
call it science. Say anthing to get attention, and call it science.
.
User: "z"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 31 May 2007 11:17:13 AM
On May 30, 2:10 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

ANYONE can now see what total
frauds most professional scientists are.

Yeah, whenever I get sick, the good old shaman is where I go. None of
that "peer reviewed science" crap.
.
User: "Jerry Kraus"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 31 May 2007 04:38:49 PM
On May 31, 11:17 am, z <gzuck...@snail-mail.net> wrote:

On May 30, 2:10 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

ANYONE can now see what total
frauds most professional scientists are.


Yeah, whenever I get sick, the good old shaman is where I go. None of
that "peer reviewed science" crap.

You too eh? Good idea. As you know, doctors are more interested in
making money than in curing the sick.
.





User: "Jerry Kraus"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 30 May 2007 10:22:16 AM
On May 30, 12:34 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:

I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train
By David Evans
Posted on 5/28/2007http://www.mises.org/story/2571#

Global temperature seems to have risen approximately 1 degree
Farenheit in the last century. It
would depend on who, exactly, was doing the reporting, but estimates
seem to be in that range. So, how can ANYONE possibly have developed
a meaningful model to ACCURATELY and RELIABLY predict substantially
greater increases in temperature in the next hundred years? There is
no data to do this. NONE!!! But this doesn't stop an entire flock
of quacks from doing just that. Predictions of up to 10 degrees or
more
increases in temperature are being made by "scientists" for the
coming hundred years. This is simple nonsense. Supported by quacks.
Endorsded by quacks.
Sure, one can generate a mathematical model to predict anything,
given enough assumptions. But this is pure speculation. Science
Fiction.
This is global warming.
.

User: "z"

Title: Re: I Was On the Global Warming Gravy Train 31 May 2007 11:15:56 AM
On May 30, 1:34 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:

In October 2006 Henrik
Svensmark showed experimentally that cosmic rays cause cloud
formation.

Whoa!!! That's one hell of an experiment. Is Svensmark God?
.


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