| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"William P.F" |
| Date: |
14 Sep 2004 10:10:45 PM |
| Object: |
IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
Bill Glennon, a former IBM technician, said it was "just totally
false" that the formatting of the documents could not be achieved with
typewriters available in the 1970s. Glennon was described by the
network as intimately familiar with the company's office product
offerings from the early 1970s.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409140180sep14,1,343503.story?coll=chi-news-hed
wpf
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| User: "E.E.Bud Keith" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 12:50:12 AM |
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"William P.F" <catastrophic_success@wh.con> wrote in message
news:secfk0d2a2smdid3ugvsp75i1ak5gc6g41@4ax.com...
Bill Glennon, a former IBM technician, said it was "just totally
false" that the formatting of the documents could not be achieved with
typewriters available in the 1970s. Glennon was described by the
network as intimately familiar with the company's office product
offerings from the early 1970s.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409140180sep14,1,343503.story?coll=chi-news-hed
wpf____________
Which means exactly what? Television was available in the thirty's and
forty's but how many people had them.
The IBM selectric was available in the 1970's but how many people had them.
Now all you and Dan have to prove is that killian had one of these units to
type his personal memo's. Or for that matter that the Texas National Guard
had them available for their use.
Until you can show beyond doubt that that Killian or the Guard used this
equipment, you are just clouding the issue with a lot of hot air.
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970'stypewritter |
15 Sep 2004 09:44:15 AM |
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E.E.Bud Keith wrote:
"William P.F" <catastrophic_success@wh.con> wrote in message
news:secfk0d2a2smdid3ugvsp75i1ak5gc6g41@4ax.com...
Bill Glennon, a former IBM technician, said it was "just totally
false" that the formatting of the documents could not be achieved with
typewriters available in the 1970s. Glennon was described by the
network as intimately familiar with the company's office product
offerings from the early 1970s.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409140180sep14,1,343503.story?coll=chi-news-hed
wpf____________
Which means exactly what? Television was available in the thirty's and
forty's but how many people had them.
The IBM selectric was available in the 1970's but how many people had them.
Tons of people, but not the Selectric Composer, a unit that would not be
found in a small Texas Air National Guard office for cranking out
everyday memos.
Now all you and Dan have to prove is that killian had one of these units to
type his personal memo's. Or for that matter that the Texas National Guard
had them available for their use.
The did, Killian's secretary said she used an Olympus typewriter which
was latter replaced by the Selectric. The Selectric and the Selectric
Composer are two different machines.
Until you can show beyond doubt that that Killian or the Guard used this
equipment, you are just clouding the issue with a lot of hot air.
Yep, but Killian's secretary has already deflated their hot air baloon.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 12:54:25 AM |
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 03:10:45 GMT, William P.F
<catastrophic_success@wh.con> wrote or quoted :
Bill Glennon, a former IBM technician, said it was "just totally
false" that the formatting of the documents could not be achieved with
typewriters available in the 1970s. Glennon was described by the
network as intimately familiar with the company's office product
offerings from the early 1970s.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409140180sep14,1,343503.story?coll=chi-news-hed
that url did not work for me, but this one did:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409140180sep14,1,343503.story
after I logged in at
https://www.chicagotribune.com/services/site/registration/show-login.register
CBS spokeswoman Sandy Genelius said Monday that the network possesses
what it believes to be so-called first generation copies duplicated
directly from the original documents.
But the copies posted on its Web site are somewhat blurred and
speckled, suggesting repeated copying.
Such low-resolution digital copies are impossible to analyze with any
exactitude, said Katherine Koppenhaver, president of the National
Association of Document Examiners.
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
(This is the one objection raised so far I claimed was legit.)
"Another correspondent recreated the memo using Microsoft Word, the
word processing program that became ubiquitous only after the personal
computer caught on in the early 1990s."
This is a lie. He did no such thing. He merely retyped it in a word
processor. It looks nothing like the CBS document other than the line
endings, which is no great surprise since he chose the same size font
and same margins.
The other bogus objections are dignified to plausibility with just a
touch of disclaimer.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970'stypewritter |
15 Sep 2004 09:46:21 AM |
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Roedy Green wrote:
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
Pluse the signature is on the right, Killian's secretary said it was
always on the left. Face facts, the memos are fake.
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| User: "Bloom,Leopold" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 12:40:05 PM |
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Sir Cumference <radiodaze@this.not> wrote in message news:<aMidnbvVacq-y9XcRVn-vA@gbronline.com>...
Roedy Green wrote:
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
Pluse the signature is on the right, Killian's secretary said it was
always on the left. Face facts, the memos are fake.
CBS, and now US News and World Report, stand by their stories.
You dittoheads have been lying for so long you've forgotten what the
truth sounds like. Here are some examples to help:
1. A Lie: "Saddam Hussein remains capable of resuming his WMD-related
activities at any time." (Translation into the truth: "Saddam Hussein
has no WMD's nor any programs to produce them").
2. The Truth: "CBS (and US News and World Report) Stand By Their
Story"
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970'stypewritter |
15 Sep 2004 04:50:39 PM |
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Bloom,Leopold wrote:
Sir Cumference <radiodaze@this.not> wrote in message news:<aMidnbvVacq-y9XcRVn-vA@gbronline.com>...
Roedy Green wrote:
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
Pluse the signature is on the right, Killian's secretary said it was
always on the left. Face facts, the memos are fake.
CBS, and now US News and World Report, stand by their stories.
Standing by their stories won't make the documents real. They are fake.
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| User: "The_Real_Truth" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 01:39:10 PM |
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Sir Cumference <radiodaze@this.not> wrote in message news:<aMidnbvVacq-y9XcRVn-vA@gbronline.com>...
Roedy Green wrote:
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
Pluse the signature is on the right, Killian's secretary said it was
always on the left. Face facts, the memos are fake.
The guy was a typewriter repairman. Any slob with a screwdriver could
call himself that, just like any shade tree 'mechanic ' can call
himself an automotive technician.
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
16 Sep 2004 05:44:32 PM |
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(The_Real_Truth) wrote in message news:<aed76c4f.0409151039.58c46228@posting.google.com>...
Sir Cumference <radiodaze@this.not> wrote in message news:<aMidnbvVacq-y9XcRVn-vA@gbronline.com>...
Roedy Green wrote:
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
Pluse the signature is on the right, Killian's secretary said it was
always on the left. Face facts, the memos are fake.
The guy was a typewriter repairman. Any slob with a screwdriver could
call himself that, just like any shade tree 'mechanic ' can call
himself an automotive technician.
Guys guys guys. CBS has been reporting news for fifty years, or at
least I've been watching their news for fifty years, and in that time
although I've been very critical of the fact that they, like all
broadcast news services, are extremely conservative. But they never
lied deliberately.
They stand by their story. They have lots of corroborative evidence
and testimony and know the provenence of the docs.
On the otherhand, we have newsmax.com, townhall.com,
worldnetjewishdaily.com, the Washington Times, the NY Post....in other
words, Mr. Murdoch, Mr. Scaife and Reverand Moon. And the organs
associated with these folks lie all the time about everything. It's
an obsessive lying, almost as though it would be physically painful
for them to tell the truth. I know I've NEVER seen them tell the
truth, ever.
See, that's one of the problems of lying ALL the time.
CBS stands by their story, and I of course believe CBS 100 times out
of 100 if the alternative is to believe you liars.
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
26 Sep 2004 10:26:34 AM |
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(Harry) wrote in message news:<ee68a82.0409161444.1e6fc447@posting.google.com>...
therealtruth2004@aol.com (The_Real_Truth) wrote in message news:<aed76c4f.0409151039.58c46228@posting.google.com>...
Sir Cumference <radiodaze@this.not> wrote in message news:<aMidnbvVacq-y9XcRVn-vA@gbronline.com>...
Roedy Green wrote:
Nonetheless, Koppenhaver questions the authenticity of at least some
of the memos. Killian's signature in a June 1973 memo appears markedly
different from his signature on notes written a year earlier, said
Koppenhaver, who said she is a consultant to ABC News on the Bush
records.
Pluse the signature is on the right, Killian's secretary said it was
always on the left. Face facts, the memos are fake.
The guy was a typewriter repairman. Any slob with a screwdriver could
call himself that, just like any shade tree 'mechanic ' can call
himself an automotive technician.
Guys guys guys. CBS has been reporting news for fifty years, or at
least I've been watching their news for fifty years, and in that time
although I've been very critical of the fact that they, like all
broadcast news services, are extremely conservative. But they never
lied deliberately.
They stand by their story. They have lots of corroborative evidence
and testimony and know the provenence of the docs.
On the otherhand, we have newsmax.com, townhall.com,
worldnetjewishdaily.com, the Washington Times, the NY Post....in other
words, Mr. Murdoch, Mr. Scaife and Reverand Moon. And the organs
associated with these folks lie all the time about everything. It's
an obsessive lying, almost as though it would be physically painful
for them to tell the truth. I know I've NEVER seen them tell the
truth, ever.
See, that's one of the problems of lying ALL the time.
CBS stands by their story, and I of course believe CBS 100 times out
of 100 if the alternative is to believe you liars.
Just got back from a vacation and thought I'd remind you folks that
your CBS stands by its story, that your Cheerleader-in-Chief was
grounded as a pilot and apparantly AWOL for a year in Alabama.
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970'stypewritter |
14 Sep 2004 11:29:28 PM |
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William P.F wrote:
Bill Glennon, a former IBM technician, said it was "just totally
false" that the formatting of the documents could not be achieved with
typewriters available in the 1970s. Glennon was described by the
network as intimately familiar with the company's office product
offerings from the early 1970s.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409140180sep14,1,343503.story?coll=chi-news-hed
Maybe so, but Killin's secretary has put the issue of the documents
being fake to rest.
By PETE SLOVER / The Dallas Morning News
HOUSTON - The former secretary for the Texas Air National Guard colonel who
supposedly authored memos critical of President Bush's Guard service said
Tuesday that the documents are fake, but that they reflect real documents
that once existed.
Marian Carr Knox, who worked from 1956 to 1979 at Ellington Air Force Base
in Houston, said she prided herself on meticulous typing, and the memos
first disclosed by CBS News last week were not her work.
"These are not real," she told The Dallas Morning News after examining
copies of the disputed memos for the first time. "They're not what I typed,
and I would have typed them for him."
Mrs. Knox, 86, who spoke with precise recollection about dates, people and
events, said she is not a supporter of Mr. Bush, who she deemed "unfit for
office" and "selected, not elected."
"I remember very vividly when Bush was there and all the yak-yak that was
going on about it," she said.
But, she said, telltale signs of forgery abounded in the four memos, which
contained the supposed writings of her ex-boss, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who
died in 1984.
She said the typeface on the documents did not match either of the two
typewriters that she used during her time at the Guard. She identified those
machines as a mechanical Olympia, which was replaced by an IBM Selectric in
the early 1970s.
She spoke fondly of the Olympia machine, which she said had a key with the
"th" superscript character that was the focus of much debate in the CBS
memos. Experts have said that the Selectric, and mechanical typewriters such
as the Olympia, could not produce proportional spacing, found in the
disputed documents.
CBS officials have defended their report. They have declined to say who
provided 60 Minutes with the documents, other than that it was an
"unimpeachable source" - or exactly where they came from, other than Lt.
Col. Killian's "personal file."
The memos, if real, would show that as a pilot, Mr. Bush defied a direct
order to obtain a flight physical, enjoyed the benefit of pressure from high
officials to "sugar coat" his record, and was grounded for failing to meet
military performance standards.
Mrs. Knox said she did all of Lt. Col. Killian's typing, including memos for
a personal "cover his back" file he kept in a locked drawer of his desk.
She said she did not recall typing the memos reported by CBS News, though
she said they accurately reflect the viewpoints of Lt. Col. Killian and
documents that would have been in the personal file. Also, she could not say
whether the CBS documents corresponded memo for memo with that file.
"The information in here was correct, but it was picked up from the real
ones," she said.
She said that the culture of the time was that men didn't type
office-related documents, and she expressed doubt that Lt. Col. Killian
would have typed the memos. She said she would typically type his memos from
his handwritten notes, which she would then destroy.
Mrs. Knox, who left the Guard before Lt. Col. Killian died, said she was not
sure of the disposition of his personal files when he died while still
serving at Ellington. But, she said, it would have been logical that a
master sergeant who worked in the squadron headquarters would have destroyed
any such nonofficial documents after Lt. Col. Killian's death.
That man, reached Tuesday, declined to comment. "I don't know anything about
the matter," he said.
She also said the memos may have been constructed from memory by someone who
had seen Lt. Col. Killian's private file but were not transcriptions because
the language and terminology did not match what he would have used.
For instance, she said, the use of the words "billets" and a reference to
the "administrative officer" of Mr. Bush's squadron reflect Army terminology
rather than the Air National Guard. Some news reports attribute the CBS
reports to a former Army National Guard officer who has a longstanding
dispute with the Guard and has previously maintained that the president's
record was sanitized.
Mrs. Knox also cited stylistic differences in the form of the notes, such as
the signature on the right side of the document, rather than the left, where
she would have put it.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 12:43:05 AM |
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On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:29:28 -0600, Sir Cumference
<radiodaze@this.not> wrote or quoted :
Maybe so, but Killin's secretary has put the issue of the documents
being fake to rest.
Not to rest, sorry. At this point the documents will have to speak for
themselves. No witness is sufficient because of the way the
Republicans have been intimidating people and lying so profusely.
I have heard almost not a grain of truth since I started examining
this problem.
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970'stypewritter |
15 Sep 2004 09:40:46 AM |
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Roedy Green wrote:
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:29:28 -0600, Sir Cumference
<radiodaze@this.not> wrote or quoted :
Maybe so, but Killin's secretary has put the issue of the documents
being fake to rest.
Not to rest, sorry. At this point the documents will have to speak for
themselves. No witness is sufficient because of the way the
Republicans have been intimidating people and lying so profusely.
I have heard almost not a grain of truth since I started examining
this problem.
So you are saying that Killian's secretary, who is not a Bush supporter,
is lying? She has stated that she did not type these documents, pointing
out errors and things she would not have done. Just keep telling
yourself that the documents are real, like Dannyboy and maybe like him
you will start to believe it. The documents have spoke for themselves,
and they shout FAKE!!
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| User: "William P.F" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 12:39:30 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:29:28 -0600, Sir Cumference
<radiodaze@this.not> wrote:
Mrs. Knox, 86, who spoke with precise recollection about dates, people and
events, said she is not a supporter of Mr. Bush, who she deemed "unfit for
office" and "selected, not elected."
86 years old, precise recollection, hmm they do not mesh. BTW who was
typing when she was off or no vacation?
Nice try though.
BTW did you read this little tidbit in the article you posted?
She said she did not recall typing the memos reported by CBS News, though
she said they accurately reflect the viewpoints of Lt. Col. Killian and
documents that would have been in the personal file. Also, she could not say
whether the CBS documents corresponded memo for memo with that file.
"The information in here was correct, but it was picked up from the real
ones," she said.
Which as I have already said makes it a moot point whether the memos
are fake since the content has been corroborated over and over.
wpf
______________
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| User: "Sir Cumference" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970'stypewritter |
15 Sep 2004 04:48:41 PM |
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William P.F wrote:
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:29:28 -0600, Sir Cumference
<radiodaze@this.not> wrote:
Mrs. Knox, 86, who spoke with precise recollection about dates, people and
events, said she is not a supporter of Mr. Bush, who she deemed "unfit for
office" and "selected, not elected."
86 years old, precise recollection, hmm they do not mesh.
Really? My grandfather was 93 when he died and up to the very last he
could remember details of family events throgh out his life. Like
wedding dates, anniversaries, deaths, births, dates people moved, ect.
Why do you think someone who is 86 has no memory?
BTW who was
typing when she was off or no vacation?
Nice try though.
So, was she on vacation when these memos were supposed to have been
produced? You have some documents that prove that?
BTW did you read this little tidbit in the article you posted?
She said she did not recall typing the memos reported by CBS News, though
she said they accurately reflect the viewpoints of Lt. Col. Killian and
documents that would have been in the personal file. Also, she could not say
whether the CBS documents corresponded memo for memo with that file.
"The information in here was correct, but it was picked up from the real
ones," she said.
Which as I have already said makes it a moot point whether the memos
are fake since the content has been corroborated over and over.
Yep, lets divert the attention away from the fact that CBS and the DNC
have produced fake documents in an attempt to prove something.
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| User: "William P.F" |
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| Title: Re: IBM technician says formatting of memos possible with 1970's typewritter |
15 Sep 2004 11:23:19 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:48:41 -0600, Sir Cumference
<radiodaze@this.not> wrote:
William P.F wrote:
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 22:29:28 -0600, Sir Cumference
<radiodaze@this.not> wrote:
Mrs. Knox, 86, who spoke with precise recollection about dates, people and
events, said she is not a supporter of Mr. Bush, who she deemed "unfit for
office" and "selected, not elected."
86 years old, precise recollection, hmm they do not mesh.
Really? My grandfather was 93 when he died and up to the very last he
could remember details of family events throgh out his life. Like
wedding dates, anniversaries, deaths, births, dates people moved, ect.
Why do you think someone who is 86 has no memory?
BTW who was
typing when she was off or no vacation?
Nice try though.
So, was she on vacation when these memos were supposed to have been
produced? You have some documents that prove that?
Do you have any proof that the memos were produced on a day that she
was on duty? If yes please post the relevant citation.
BTW did you read this little tidbit in the article you posted?
She said she did not recall typing the memos reported by CBS News, though
she said they accurately reflect the viewpoints of Lt. Col. Killian and
documents that would have been in the personal file. Also, she could not say
whether the CBS documents corresponded memo for memo with that file.
"The information in here was correct, but it was picked up from the real
ones," she said.
Which as I have already said makes it a moot point whether the memos
are fake since the content has been corroborated over and over.
Yep, lets divert the attention away
No diversion. The facts contained in the memos say tht Bush failed to
obey an order and at a time of war he shirked his duty.
from the fact that CBS and the DNC
have produced fake documents in an attempt to prove something.
Cites? No? I did not think so either.
wpf
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