| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Sogobia" |
| Date: |
18 May 2004 10:26:06 PM |
| Object: |
I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
U.S.: We Underestimated Iraq's Resilience
Tue May 18, 2004
By PAULINE JELINEK
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - A Pentagon architect of the Iraq war said Tuesday the Defense
Department underestimated its enemy, failing to predict how resilient Saddam
Hussein and his government would be.
In a rare admission of prewar miscalculations, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul
Wolfowitz also said it's impossible to say how long a large American
military force will have to stay in Iraq after political power is handed to
Iraqis on June 30.
Wolfowitz spoke at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, the latest
called by lawmakers worried about the Bush administration's handling of the
war and reconstruction so far and about its plans for the future.
Answering a question about miscalculations made to date in the year-old
campaign, Wolfowitz said: "I would say of all the things that were
underestimated, the one that almost no one that I know of predicted ... was
to properly estimate the resilience of the regime that had abused this
country for 35 years."
He said that included the failure "to properly estimate that Saddam Hussein
would still be out there funding attacks on Americans until he was captured;
that one of his principal deputies, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, would still be
out there funding operations against us; that they would have hundreds of
millions of dollars in bank accounts in neighboring countries to support
those operations"; and that the old intelligence service would keep
fighting.
Wolfowitz also said U.S. officials were wrong to impose so severe a policy
of de-Baathification, the decision to purge members of Saddam's Baath party
from the government. The move threw out of work thousands of teachers,
military men and others, many of whom had been required to join the party
for employment, and was blamed by some for not only boosting joblessness but
helping fuel the insurgency.
The ban on former party members in public sector jobs was eased last month.
Wolfowitz is not the first strong Bush administration supporter of the Iraq
war to say that things had gone different than planned: Midway through a
bloody April for U.S. forces in Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
he had not expected so many recent American casualties.
On Tuesday, Wolfowitz also said that the next year to 18 months will be
critical in Iraq because it will take that long to stand up fully trained
and equipped Iraqi security forces and to elect a representative government.
Pressed by Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., on how long substantial numbers of
U.S. troops will have to remain, Wolfowitz said he could not predict.
Occupation forces have signed up some 200,000 Iraqis for police, army, civil
defense and other security jobs. Training has been slow, however, insurgent
violence is on the rise and Iraqis remain far from capable of securing the
country without the 160,000-member U.S.-led occupation forces.
Feingold asked if the current 135,000 Americans will have to stay through
2005.
"We don't know what it'll be. We've had changes, as you know, month by
month," Wolfowitz said. "We have several different plans to be able to deal
with the different levels that might be required.
"Our current level is higher than we had planned for this time this year."
Officials had expected they'd have only 115,000 troops in Iraq by now but
were forced in the spring to extend the tours of some 20,000 Americans
because of unexpectedly high violence.
Before the war, some military planners estimated all but 70,000 Americans
could have been withdrawn by the end of 2003. Gen. Richard Myers, chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has said since that he never thought that
number was plausible.
Rumsfeld briefed the House Armed Services panel in private Tuesday on a
number of Iraq issues. The panel also was briefed by Army Maj. Gen. Antonio
Taguba, who investigated U.S. soldiers' abuse of inmates in an Iraqi prison.
Some House members viewed still-classified photos from the scandal, in which
Taguba reported "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" by military
forces at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison complex near Baghdad.
Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., criticized Wolfowitz and Armitage for not knowing
precisely how U.S.-run prisons will be handled after the transfer of
sovereignty.
Armitage said officials hope to put them under Iraqi control "as rapidly as
possible" but said he didn't know how long that meant.
"I would have thought that this government would put some time into this,
especially with what we've just been through the last two weeks," Hagel said
of the firestorm in the United States and abroad over publicized photos of
abuse.
Armitage said U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi is working hard to produce a list
of 30 people that Iraqis could agree on to serve as president, prime
minister, two vice presidents and heads of 26 ministries in the interim
government, which would serve until elections are held.
He said he hoped the selection would be done by the end of this month or the
first week of June.
Meanwhile, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee harshly
criticized his Senate counterparts Tuesday, accusing them of "basically
driving the story" of the Iraq prison abuse and pulling officials out of
Iraq to testify.
"I think they have given now probably more publicity to what six people did
in the Abu Ghraib prison at 2:30 in the morning than the invasion of
Normandy," Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., said on C-SPAN.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&e=9&u=/ap/20040518/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq_8
--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory
after the war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would
have been like the dinosaur in the tar pit - we would still be there,
and we, not the United Nations, would be bearing the costs of
the occupation. This is a burden I am sure the beleaguered
American taxpayer would not have been happy to take on."
- Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't
Take a Hero."
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
19 May 2004 04:57:03 PM |
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"Sogobia" <windriver2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:083df2435b2557fa37bef55139494432@news.teranews.com:
U.S.: We Underestimated Iraq's Resilience
God gave us nuclear weapons for a reason, you know.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "HooHa" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
19 May 2004 06:47:49 PM |
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"Asmodeus" <asmodeus@REMOVEinsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94EEAC6D3C9FCasmodeusinsightbbcom@63.240.76.16...
"Sogobia" <windriver2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:083df2435b2557fa37bef55139494432@news.teranews.com:
U.S.: We Underestimated Iraq's Resilience
God gave us nuclear weapons for a reason, you know.
Another God gave Pakistan some too.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
20 May 2004 08:27:55 AM |
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"HooHa" <Not@Home.com> wrote in news:40abf27b_3@corp.newsgroups.com:
Another God gave Pakistan some too
Pakistan is on the list. Syria is probably next, but Pakistan
will get what they have coming for sponsoring terrorists.
And I'll throw a party when they do.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Bushs Sawed-Off Heads Brigade" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
20 May 2004 08:49:01 AM |
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In article <Xns94EF561B03DA0asmodeusinsightbbcom@216.148.227.77>, says...
"HooHa" <Not@Home.com> wrote in news:40abf27b_3@corp.newsgroups.com:
Another God gave Pakistan some too
Pakistan is on the list. Syria is probably next, but Pakistan
will get what they have coming for sponsoring terrorists.
And I'll throw a party when they do.
Are you going to sign up to fight or is this chickenhawk talk?
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
20 May 2004 02:13:06 PM |
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Bush's Sawed-Off Heads Brigade <icabod@dedheadz.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1b16573c2212a0ab989947@netnews.comcast.net:
Are you going to sign up to fight
Unfortunately, I'm too old--but I will gladly send you as
a human shield, along with the packages of goods I send
the US troops.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Bushs Sawed-Off Heads Brigade" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
20 May 2004 07:18:31 PM |
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In article <Xns94EF90A15669Basmodeusinsightbbcom@204.127.199.17>, says...
Bush's Sawed-Off Heads Brigade <icabod@dedheadz.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1b16573c2212a0ab989947@netnews.comcast.net:
Are you going to sign up to fight
Unfortunately, I'm too old--but I will gladly send you as
a human shield, along with the packages of goods I send
the US troops.
figures . . .
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
21 May 2004 04:39:22 PM |
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Bush's Sawed-Off Heads Brigade <icabod@dedheadz.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1b16eac0dd551ef3989949@netnews.comcast.net:
figures . . .
That I'm too old? And don't forget, I'll send you to Iraq as
a human shield. I'm more than happy to do so.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Viejo Vizcacha" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
21 May 2004 05:08:37 PM |
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"Asmodeus" <asmodeus@REMOVEinsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94F0A96CD8205asmodeusinsightbbcom@216.148.227.77...
Bush's Sawed-Off Heads Brigade <icabod@dedheadz.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1b16eac0dd551ef3989949@netnews.comcast.net:
figures . . .
That I'm too old? And don't forget, I'll send you to Iraq as
a human shield. I'm more than happy to do so.
Spoketh like a true chicken-hawk!
VV
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
22 May 2004 09:04:07 AM |
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"Viejo Vizcacha" <Elbie_Jovis_Kasha@yahoo.com> wrote in news:j1vrc.522
$XF3.361@nntp-post.primus.ca:
Spoketh like a true chicken-hawk!
The one-way ticket is on me. I'm sure those of my relatives
who are currently serving over there would help you out.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Viejo Vizcacha" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
22 May 2004 10:08:23 PM |
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"Asmodeus" <asmodeus@REMOVEinsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94F15C3E0CE1Aasmodeusinsightbbcom@204.127.204.17...
"Viejo Vizcacha" <Elbie_Jovis_Kasha@yahoo.com> wrote in news:j1vrc.522
$XF3.361@nntp-post.primus.ca:
Spoketh like a true chicken-hawk!
The one-way ticket is on me. I'm sure those of my relatives
who are currently serving over there would help you out.
Your relatives? You have no shame. You hide behind the valour of your
relatives servinf your country, while you, yourself, flap your beak in
horrific singing, but at the time of flying and fighting, you are nowhere to
be found.
VV
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
25 May 2004 03:08:31 PM |
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"Viejo Vizcacha" <Elbie_Jovis_Kasha@yahoo.com> wrote in news:hwUrc.2657
$3p5.871@nntp-post.primus.ca:
Your relatives? You have no shame.
And why aren't you over there being a human shield?
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Viejo Vizcacha" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
25 May 2004 05:56:00 PM |
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"Asmodeus" <asmodeus@REMOVEinsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94F49A080EFFFasmodeusinsightbbcom@216.148.227.77...
"Viejo Vizcacha" <Elbie_Jovis_Kasha@yahoo.com> wrote in news:hwUrc.2657
$3p5.871@nntp-post.primus.ca:
Your relatives? You have no shame.
And why aren't you over there being a human shield?
I have no qualms with poor rednecks who are , after all, themselves victims
of this idiocy. As long as they keep reading "the babble" and rejecting
science, Darwin and evolution, they will keep being used as cannon fodder by
big corporations.
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| User: "Asmodeus" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
26 May 2004 12:22:19 PM |
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"Viejo Vizcacha" <Elbie_Jovis_Kasha@yahoo.com> wrote in news:A5Qsc.5757
$V65.5701@nntp-post.primus.ca:
I have no qualms with poor rednecks who are
Ah, there we go, the inevitable liberal attempt at a slur,
because they have nothing else.
--
/"\ || Free Enterprise
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Limited Government
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || Individual Freedom
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rlc.org
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| User: "Ashland Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
25 May 2004 10:55:06 PM |
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Asmodeus <asmodeus@REMOVEinsightbb.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94EEAC6D3C9FCasmodeusinsightbbcom@63.240.76.16>...
"Sogobia" <windriver2000@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:083df2435b2557fa37bef55139494432@news.teranews.com:
U.S.: We Underestimated Iraq's Resilience
God gave us nuclear weapons for a reason, you know.
Gosh, that whole Manhatten Project must have just been for
show then.
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| User: "Paul Bramscher" |
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| Title: Re: I'm in awe! How badly can you screw it up? |
19 May 2004 11:20:12 AM |
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Sogobia wrote:
U.S.: We Underestimated Iraq's Resilience
Tue May 18, 2004
By PAULINE JELINEK
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - A Pentagon architect of the Iraq war said Tuesday the Defense
Department underestimated its enemy, failing to predict how resilient Saddam
Hussein and his government would be.
Considering they distorted or manufactured a fair amount of intelligence
information to support the war pretext (WMD's, attempts ot purchase
uranium from Africa, etc.) it's clearly no surprise they're experiencing
a disconnect. If new data doesn't fit their bootstrapped ideology, they
have a habit of rejecting it. When a sufficient amount of intelligence
is rejected or manufactured, all estimations become increasingly
tenuous. Haven't they figured out that they must sleep in their own bed?
In a rare admission of prewar miscalculations, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul
Wolfowitz also said it's impossible to say how long a large American
military force will have to stay in Iraq after political power is handed to
Iraqis on June 30.
It should be possible to say. What is our exit strategy? What are the
"deliverables"? What's the check-off list of requirements until we
bring the troops home? At the very least, the administration must
supply these so that independent analysts and the American taxpayer (not
Halliburton -- they're based in the Caymans) and soldier (not the
neocon, they dodge out) funding or fighting this war knows what's in
store. Let us decide for ourselves if they are clueless and unable to
manage it properly.
It's utterly damning that the entities in charge haven't the foggiest
idea of what they've gotten us into. It speaks volumes about their
ability to lead. A leader who can't anticipate (or actively influence)
what's ahead, clearly, isn't worth following. Who's the captain of this
ship of fools?
Answering a question about miscalculations made to date in the year-old
campaign, Wolfowitz said: "I would say of all the things that were
underestimated, the one that almost no one that I know of predicted ... was
to properly estimate the resilience of the regime that had abused this
country for 35 years."
Makes you wonder why the West propped him up to begin with, and why
Rumsfeld personally restored relations while serving under Reagan, and
why we still train terrorists today at the School of the Americas.
I've come to conclude that there's only two possible answers. We wanted
to create a banana republic, mideast-style, with a friendly puppet
government who'd help us control the price/availability of oil. He got
too powerful, exceeded our expectations, and we had to take him out.
Sort of like a mobster offing one of his henchmen who might present a
future threat.
The second alternative, and this is even more devious, is that we
purposely propped up a bad guy to justify taking him out and invading
the country. This would have required decades of planning, probably
much more than the current pirates in the White House are capable of, so
we can probably reject this scenario. Though possibly not -- while we
like to use the term "neocon", there are connections to the paleocons,
and many of them are still in the woodwork in one capacity or the other.
The torch was still burning when it was passed.
"I think they have given now probably more publicity to what six people did
in the Abu Ghraib prison at 2:30 in the morning than the invasion of
Normandy," Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., said on C-SPAN.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&e=9&u=/ap/20040518/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq_8
Interesting. And from the others, not given a plea bargain, we hear the
Nazi's excuse: befehl ist behfel. Orders are orders. I'd like to hear
more about operation Copper Green, Mr. Duncan Hunter, and who authorized it.
I've never seen a group of more shameless apologists in American
history, perhaps not since the supporters of the British in the 1770's
have we seen such an anti-democracy group in the limelight.
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