| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Bill McCarty" |
| Date: |
09 Nov 2005 11:33:26 AM |
| Object: |
Impertinent Question # 127 |
I don't get it. If "We Don't Torture" then why not
put it in writing in the form of a law ? Why does the president insist
that the CIA be excluded from the prohibition on torture ? Why is the
vice president leading the charge against those who want to spell it
out clearly ? Is it because the neo-cons hope to rekindle American
enthusiasm for the war by pointing to mistreatment of American
prisoners prompted by OUR mistreatment of THEIR prisoners ? Has the
Pentagon shot itself in the foot with its rigid control of the news
from Iraq ? To the point that since no one knows what's really going
on, no one gives a hoot about the war any longer ? And do they hope to
spice it up with tales of torture of US soldiers by Iraqi insurgents ?
.
|
|
| User: "DGVREIMAN" |
|
| Title: Legal Torture (Was Re: Impertinent Question # 127 |
09 Nov 2005 03:01:11 PM |
|
|
"Bill McCarty" <billmccarty@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131557606.177583.300020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I don't get it. If "We Don't Torture" then why not
put it in writing in the form of a law ? Why does the president
insist
that the CIA be excluded from the prohibition on torture ? Why
is the
vice president leading the charge against those who want to
spell it
out clearly ? Is it because the neo-cons hope to rekindle
American
enthusiasm for the war by pointing to mistreatment of American
prisoners prompted by OUR mistreatment of THEIR prisoners ? Has
the
Pentagon shot itself in the foot with its rigid control of the
news
from Iraq ? To the point that since no one knows what's really
going
on, no one gives a hoot about the war any longer ? And do they
hope to
spice it up with tales of torture of US soldiers by Iraqi
insurgents ?
Doug Says: Billy, we have never fought an enemy in any war that
observed the provisions of the Geneva Convention. Not one. Yet
the Geneva Convention is supposed to apply to our troops, but
never to any others. Does that sound like one arm tied behind
our troops backs to you? It does to them.
For the most part physical torture does not work. It extracts
information that is not reliable. Psychological torture,
however, does work. And we should retain the right to use that
method of interrogation on the vicious mad dog wanton butchers
that we capture so as to prevent more wanton murdering and
destruction of yet more innocent people. Which civil rights are
we to violate? The mad dog Plague Radical Muslim butcher we
capture, or the thousands of innocent people that will be
murdered by his colleagues if we do not extract information from
our prisoner that will deter or intercept those future murders?
Someone must pay a price. So do the mad dog Plague Radical
Muslim murderers have more rights than the innocent civilians
they are murdering or will murder?
Pick one Billy.
Doug Grant (Tm)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill McCarty" |
|
| Title: Re: Legal Torture (Was Re: Impertinent Question # 127 |
10 Nov 2005 07:42:45 AM |
|
|
"DGVREIMAN" <DGVREIMAN@COMCAST.NET> wrote in message
news:vJ-dnYCgeZMY_u_eRVn-ow@comcast.com...
Doug Says: Billy, we have never fought an enemy in any war that
observed the provisions of the Geneva Convention. Not one.
And your proof for this is what, von Reiman ?
Yet the Geneva Convention is supposed to apply to our troops, but
never to any others.
Your falsifications are clearly a plea to be allowed to commit ANY
attrocity
no matter despicable, justified by the unproven assertion that
"everybody
does it". No, von Reiman. Everybody does NOT do it. And if they
did it
would be no reason why we should sink to their level. Your argument
against
the terrorists is and always has been that we are somehow superior to
them.
Yet you seem ready to grasp any opportunity to prove otherwise. .
For the most part physical torture does not work. It extracts
information that is not reliable. Psychological torture,
however, does work.
Torture is torture. And there is NO reason whatever to believe
that
some kinds are nicer than others; that they "work" (whatever that
means) or
that they extract information which is truthful, accurate or useful to
the
thugs who carry it out.
And we should retain the right to use that method of interrogation.
Then you disagree with the stated policy of your government: "We do
not
torture"
or the thousands of innocent people that will be
murdered by his colleagues if we do not extract information from
our prisoner that will deter or intercept those future murders?
Why do you believe that useful information will be obtained by
torture?
A thousand years of barbarism has shown it to be useless. And
hundreds
of years of civilization has made the world a better place to live in.
Why
are you so determined that we should revert to savagery ? Is it a part
of
the culture you grew up with ? Or is it a desperate attempt to involve
the
US in ANY attrocity so long as there is even a slim hope of diverting
Muslim
hatred towards the US and away from Israel ?
Someone must pay a price.
Why ? The vast majority of Muslims are not mad dogs, nor radicals
nor
infected by plague,. as you seem to imply. We are in a cultural war
with a
small minority of Muslims and our strategy should be to isolate the
terrorists from the peaceful majority. NOT to alienate a billion
Muslims
around the world by stupid, vicious and shameful blunders. THOSE are
the
two alternative courses of action we face von Reiman. Pick one.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Legal Torture (Was Re: Impertinent Question # 127 |
10 Nov 2005 07:39:42 AM |
|
|
"DGVREIMAN" <DGVREIMAN@COMCAST.NET> wrote in message
news:vJ-dnYCgeZMY_u_eRVn-ow@comcast.com...
Doug Says: Billy, we have never fought an enemy in any war that
observed the provisions of the Geneva Convention. Not one.
And your proof for this is what, von Reiman ?
Yet the Geneva Convention is supposed to apply to our troops, but
never to any others.
Your falsifications are clearly a plea to be allowed to commit ANY attrocity
no matter despicable, justified by the unproven assertion that "everybody
does it". No, von Reiman. Everybody does NOT do it. And if they did it
would be no reason why we should sink to their level. Your argument against
the terrorists is and always has been that we are somehow superior to them.
Yet you seem ready to grasp any opportunity to prove otherwise. .
For the most part physical torture does not work. It extracts
information that is not reliable. Psychological torture,
however, does work.
Torture is torture. And there is NO reason whatever to believe that
some kinds are nicer than others; that they "work" (whatever that means) or
that they extract information which is truthful, accurate or useful to the
thugs who carry it out.
And we should retain the right to use that method of interrogation.
Then you disagree with the stated policy of your government: "We do not
torture"
or the thousands of innocent people that will be
murdered by his colleagues if we do not extract information from
our prisoner that will deter or intercept those future murders?
Why do you believe that useful information will be obtained by torture
? A thousand years of barbarism has shown it to be useless. And hundreds
of years of civilization has made the world a better place to live in. Why
are you so determined that we should revert to savagery ? Is it a part of
the culture you grew up with ? Or is it a desperate attempt to involve the
US in ANY attrocity so long as there is even a slim hope of diverting Muslim
hatred towards the US and away from Israel ?
Someone must pay a price.
Why ? The vast majority of Muslims are not mad dogs, nor radicals nor
infected by plague,. as you seem to imply. We are in a cultural war with a
small minority of Muslims and our strategy should be to isolate the
terrorists from the peaceful majority. NOT to alienate a billion Muslims
around the world by stupid, vicious and shameful blunders. Those are the
two alternative courses of action we face von Reiman. Pick one.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "PolicySpy" |
|
| Title: Re: Impertinent Question # 127 |
09 Nov 2005 02:30:56 PM |
|
|
I don't get it. If "We Don't Torture" then why not
put it in writing in the form of a law ? Why does the president insist
that the CIA be excluded from the prohibition on torture ? Why is the
vice president leading the charge against those who want to spell it
out clearly ? Is it because the neo-cons hope to
Well, suppose we make it illegal for the U.S. military to hand prisioners
over to the CIA...so that the military must either hand prisioners over to
the legal system or they must hold prisoners as POW's.
For instance the CIA operates remote field units that are like military
special forces and in Afghanistan they can operate because of the U.S.
military presence and cooperation. So there can be logistical collusion with
the military for the CIA to take prisoners...
Of course abuses at known prisons in Iraq and Cuba are the responsibility of
the military. Now the Administration jumped up with memos that proved that
they did not approve prison conditions in Iraq and Cuba. Then a review board
absolved the Administration of blame but said that they were poor
administrators. Well, the review board did not mention the historical
development of brainwashing techniques by the U.S. government that is known
from government contracts and court cases. And months later a representative
of the U.S. military indicated to Congress that activities at prisons were
necessary and thus took the blame or responsibility...but was certainly
sidestepping any issue where there was current prosecution.
The sad thing is that they had one person that amounted to an important
connection to AQ but they went "go fish" with dozens or hundeds of regional
no-bodies. This is just not admirable or courageous...International treaty
allows for POW's to be interrogated for the purpose of identifying them...
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
