| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
08 Jun 2006 07:45:41 PM |
| Object: |
Impertinent Question # 193 |
If Zarkawi was as important as they say, wouldn't it make sense to try to
take him alive ? His information could have been priceless. Is this
instinct for killing prompted by advisors at the White House and Pentagon
who see a wider cultural war against Muslims around the world as the only
possible means of saving Israel ?
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| User: "NeoLibertarian" |
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| Title: Re: Impertinent Question # 193 |
08 Jun 2006 08:57:49 PM |
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Bill wrote:
If Zarkawi was as important as they say, wouldn't it make sense to try to
take him alive ?
It's transliterated as "al-Zarqawi."
And no, keeping him alive wouldn't have yielded useful information. He
had internet access and knew that he would have protected
Constitutional rights at Gitmo--something Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
couldn't even have conceived of before he went in for his own
interrogations.
And, besides, I think taking him alive is pretty well beyond your
protected world view from your High Chair.
Look what happened when they tried to take Aidid alive in Mogadishu.
Hardly worth it.
--
NeoLibertarian
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Impertinent Question # 193 |
09 Jun 2006 05:48:00 AM |
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Let me explain something to you bozo, which is obvious to everyone
except you. We sent prisoners to Guantanamo for one reason ONLY. We
sent them there because it is outside the United States and prisoners
have no recourse to our laws, our lawyers or our protections against
torture and brutal treatment.
Fearful that Guantanamo may STILL be too close to provide ABSOLUTE
security from prying eyes and the kind of oversight we have a right to
expect from Congress, this administration set up a network of secret
prisons overseas where American law and American decency are unheard
of. Torture, for the purpose of extracting information is routine and
if it were not, then these secret prisons would have no purpose. The
administration's only response when the facts were leaked was to
explore the source of the leaks and suggest that possible treason
charges might be brought against the leakers.
And THAT'S what this pointless war has brought us to. We were
lied into it, and we saw our basic laws and legal protections
destroyed because of it. All to support Israel in a war against a
people who never attacked us, had NOTHING to do with 9-11, had no
weapons of mass destruction, no means of delivering them and who had in
fact fought a bitter war against the radical Muslims of Iran. As an
American you should be ashamed of what we have done. I am.
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| User: "NeoLibertarian" |
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| Title: Re: Impertinent Question # 193 |
10 Jun 2006 03:14:48 PM |
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Bill wrote:
Let me explain something to you bozo, which is obvious to everyone
except you. We sent prisoners to Guantanamo for one reason ONLY. We
sent them there because it is outside the United States and prisoners
have no recourse to our laws, our lawyers or our protections against
torture and brutal treatment.
Fearful that Guantanamo may STILL be too close to provide ABSOLUTE
security from prying eyes and the kind of oversight we have a right to
expect from Congress, this administration set up a network of secret
prisons overseas where American law and American decency are unheard
of. Torture, for the purpose of extracting information is routine and
if it were not, then these secret prisons would have no purpose. The
administration's only response when the facts were leaked was to
explore the source of the leaks and suggest that possible treason
charges might be brought against the leakers.
Provide proof or retract.
And THAT'S what this pointless war has brought us to. We were
lied into it,
Provide proof or retract.
and we saw our basic laws and legal protections
destroyed because of it.
Provide proof or retract.
All to support Israel in a war against a
people who never attacked us, had NOTHING to do with 9-11, had no
weapons of mass destruction, no means of delivering them and who had in
fact fought a bitter war against the radical Muslims of Iran.
Provide proof or retract.
As an
American you should be ashamed of what we have done. I am.
I'm not ashamed of Operation: Enduring Freedom nor Operation: Iraqi
Freedom.
I've seen no compelling evidence that would tend to make me ashamed of
anything involving the issues you've brought up in this thread.
You've certainly presented none.
As an American, I am well aware of the old American Proverb: "The guy
making all the mistakes is the guy doing all the work."
Mistakes have been made, certainly.
Your alternative suggestions were/are:
"_____________________________."
Please fill in the blank. Use the other side if more room is required.
--
NeoLibertarian
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Impertinent Question # 193 |
11 Jun 2006 05:42:36 AM |
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There's not a shred of evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction. Not a shred of evidence Iraq had ANYTHING to do with
9-11. Not a shred of evidence that Iraq got Uranium cake from Nigeria
etc. etc.. The burden of proof here is not on ME, it's on YOU !
If you have a shred of evidence to support any of the Bush claims
behind this war, then please present them. And stop suggesting that I
need to provide proof. As for operation Bull *****-excuse me,---
operation Enduring Freedom, tell that to the parents of those poor
soldiers who gave their lives in a pointless, expensive and bloody war.
As ro MY alternative suggestion I can only say "If ya keep on doin
what ya already done then yer gonna keep gittin what ya gotten. " The
alternative is easy: STOP IT ! Declare victory and bring the trops
home. Stop trying to play the role of world policeman, regardless of
strongly Israel is urging that role upon us.
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| User: "NeoLibertarian" |
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| Title: Re: Impertinent Question # 193 |
11 Jun 2006 12:17:29 PM |
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Bill wrote:
There's not a shred of evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction.
Yes there is. Where have you been?
Not a shred of evidence Iraq had ANYTHING to do with
9-11.
Other than the meeting between Mohammed Atta and Ahmed al-Ani, no one
ever claimed they were directly related. It was the Shrub's own
administration which debunked the claims of BIS that the meeting took
place that April in Prague.
That Iraq was attempting to position itself as a center of Jihad
support isn't really being disputed. Saddam was rather public about
this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/14/world/main543981.shtml
Beyond this:
"The Government of Iraq is instigating fundamentalism in the country.
This is of concern for Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait. It is against
Europe and US. Now Ba'ath Party members have to pass a religious exam.
This would strengthen Iran. It would be detrimental for the whole
region. [The interpreter remarked that Iraq and Iran would have the
same mentality] This will be another world war. Every party member has
to pass a religious exam. They even stopped party meetings for
prayers."
---Hussein Kamal (UNSCOM Briefing, August 22, 1995)
Not a shred of evidence that Iraq got Uranium cake from Nigeria
etc. etc.
Well, considering that Iraq had previously purchased Uranium Oxide from
Niger, as late as 1998, and the extensive business contacts between the
Ba'athists, and the government offices they had located in Niamey, it's
not THAT unreasonable.
It all hinges on MI6. And I haven't seen their official report.
The burden of proof here is not on ME, it's on YOU !
You're the one calling all of it a 'lie", Dummy.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
If you have a shred of evidence to support any of the Bush claims
behind this war, then please present them.
"At one point Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son-in-law and the man who was in
charge of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction efforts can be heard on
the tapes, speaking openly about hiding information from the U.N.
"'We did not reveal all that we have,' Kamel says in the meeting. 'Not
the type of weapons, not the volume of the materials we imported, not
the volume of the production we told them about, not the volume of use.
None of this was correct.'"
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Investigation/story?id=1616996
"Former head of the Iraq Survey Group, David Kay, has confirmed that
Saddam Hussein sent convoys to Syria full of "Iraqi equipment" that
could not be identified, and that they could possibly have had weapons
of mass destruction. He confirmed that senior Iraqi scientific and
military officials who would have access to technical documentation and
knowledge of the programs fled to Syria immediately before and during
the war. According to intelligence gathering, the major transfer of WMD
goods from Iraq to Syria and Lebanon occurred between January and March
of 2003. However, the first shipments occurred even before then.
"In December of 2002, Israel claimed that Syria was hiding Iraqi mobile
biological weapons labs, chemical and biological components and
munitions. The shipments were reportedly negotiated between Bashar
Assad's younger brother, Maher, and Saddam Hussein. Following their
meeting, Syria agreed to harbor WMDs and officials should inspections
begin again.
"Israeli intelligence says that between January 10th and March 10th,
the transfer of Iraqi chemical (and possibly biological) weapons to
Syria and Lebanon's Bekaa Valley was completed."
February 2004
http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Iraq/Apr1403.htm
"The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force
says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war
by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger
seats were removed."
http://www.nysun.com/article/26514
"On March 27-28, 2003, during the opening phases of Operation: Iraqi
Freedom, Republican Guard missile crews deployed SCUD/ al-Samoud SS
Missiles from their safe havens in Syria. They were deployed long
enough to activate their targeting systems. However, before Coalition
Air Forces were able to respond, the missiles and their crews retreated
out of reach, back into Syria."
---The Secret History of the Iraq War, Yossef Bodansky,
Harper Collins (2004)
--
NeoLibertarian
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