In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "GunWoman"
Date: 26 Jul 2005 06:13:09 PM
Object: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined
In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined
Saturday, April 09, 2005
With more than four out of five states allowing law-abiding
citizens to carry concealed weapons, that argument is finished.
Now, the nation's long-running argument over guns turns on how
much to loosen the rules — should guns be allowed in judge's
chambers? Bars? In workplace parking lots?
The work in state legislatures following the latest spate of
fatal shootings shows how much the debate has changed. The 1999
Columbine (search) school shootings sent moms marching into the
streets for tougher gun laws, but this year, many state
legislators are looking at ways to broaden access to weapons and
ease training and other requirements.
"Where do you stand on self-defense?" said New Mexico state Rep.
Thomas Anderson (search), a Republican who said local judges
asked him to change the law to let judges carry weapons into
their court chambers. "I believe in it."
His bill died in committee, but it will be back next year. New
Mexico this year already broadened its concealed-weapons law,
passed just two years ago, to drop the age requirement to 21 and
allow the state to reach agreements with other states so
gun-carriers can cross borders without worry.
The push for concealed weapons began in the late 1980s, when all
but 10 states refused to allow residents to do so, or only
allowed it in special circumstances. But starting in 1989, those
barriers fell. Now it's up to 46, with 35 states allowing just
about anyone who is not a felon to get a permit.
The late 1990s saw a rise in gun control legislation. In 1999,
after 15 were killed, including the gunmen, at the shootings at
Columbine High School in Colorado, gun control gained a sharp
edge and legislators' attention.
Violence hasn't subsided this year, from courthouse shootings in
Atlanta and Tyler, Texas, to the school killings at Red Lake
(search), Minn., the most deadly since Columbine. But the
reaction has spurred something far different, drawing on the
idea that if the victims had weapons they might not be victims.
"At the scene of these crimes, despite all the good intentions
of the police, the prosecutors, the courts, the judges — they're
all coming in later," said Wayne LaPierre, chief executive of
the National Rifle Association (search). "The country as a whole
is taking another look, across the board, at the idea that maybe
it makes good sense to allow people to protect themselves in as
many situations as possible."
Current legislation in some cases is a direct response to the
recent shootings, though often predates it. In recent weeks:
- Florida legislators passed a measure allowing people to "meet
force with force" to defend themselves without fear of
prosecution, extending the right from their homes to anywhere
they're legally allowed to be. Gov. Jeb Bush said he intends to
sign it.
- Arizona's Senate approved letting people carry guns into bars
and restaurants, as long as they're not drinking. The House has
yet to act.
- North Dakota legislators approved removing the shooting test
needed for a concealed-weapon permit, though the bill awaits
final approval from the governor.
Even schools and workplaces, the scene of some of the most
horrific violence, saw restrictions fall. A new Virginia law
lets people with concealed handguns onto school grounds, as long
as they and the gun remain in their car. A 2004 Oklahoma law
lets employees with permits keep guns in cars in job parking
lots.
"Employers have a responsibility to make their workplace a safe
place. For them to let workers with guns onto the premises is
insane," said Brian Seibel, senior counsel at the Brady Campaign
to Prevent Gun Violence. And bars? "Hello? Do you want to mix
alcohol and guns?"
The shift in opinion and legislation comes directly from the
election outcomes of 2000 and 2004, and the national focus on
security after Sept. 11, both sides agree.
"There's an ebb and flow," Seibel said. "There's no question
that the NRA is on the offensive trying to roll back the gun
laws on the books. ... Their vision of society is everyone ought
to have a gun. That's not our view of a safe society. I don't
think it's Americans' view of a safe society."
Still, the struggle hasn't all been one-sided.
Missouri, where legislators approved a concealed-weapon law even
though a statewide referendum rejected it in 1999, gave cities
the right to restrict weapons on city-owned property.
Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and Philadelphia Mayor John Street,
both Democrats, are studying sweeping changes.
Illinois, one of the significant battlegrounds, saw legislation
that seeks to ban .50-caliber ammunition, close a loophole that
allows sales at gun shows without background checks, and require
guns to be sold with "trigger lock" safety devices. Gun-rights
interests scored a victory last week by killing a bill that
would allow lawsuits against gun dealers.
Anderson, in New Mexico, said restrictions are outlawing the way
he grew up, when he learned about guns before he was a teenager.
In his view, restrictions make crime more likely, and his view
seems on the rise.
"There should be the possibility that any house on the street
should have a weapon," he said. "Do I think every house should
have one? No. But the bad guy should think so."
--
GunWoman - Armed and Safer in the USA
.

User: "Larry Hewitt"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 27 Jul 2005 02:41:49 PM
"GunWoman" <GunWoman@guns-notspam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns969FAF2F9AD46GunWomangunsnotspamc@216.196.97.142...

In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined

Saturday, April 09, 2005

With more than four out of five states allowing law-abiding
citizens to carry concealed weapons, that argument is finished.

Hmmm. I think you speak too soon. Police hee in the Carolinas are
rethinkiing the issue. Why?
In the City of Charlotte violence broke out on July 4th. Drunks poured out
onto city streets after the fireworks display, and gunfire erupted from
drunks with concealed carry permits.
In South Carolina a repuglicon gunernatorial candidate had to file charges
against a neighbor, a repuglicon official with a concealed carry permit,
because the neighbor threatened him (Police took the permit).
In Rock Hill there have been at least three shootings and one death from
legal guuns and concealed carry permits so far this year.
In fact, the threat of gun violence has grwon so muvch in this region that
more and more business and employers are posting signs forbidding guns on
the premises. More than a dozen have been fires in the region for carrying a
gun to work.
Larry

Now, the nation's long-running argument over guns turns on how
much to loosen the rules - should guns be allowed in judge's
chambers? Bars? In workplace parking lots?

The work in state legislatures following the latest spate of
fatal shootings shows how much the debate has changed. The 1999
Columbine (search) school shootings sent moms marching into the
streets for tougher gun laws, but this year, many state
legislators are looking at ways to broaden access to weapons and
ease training and other requirements.

"Where do you stand on self-defense?" said New Mexico state Rep.
Thomas Anderson (search), a Republican who said local judges
asked him to change the law to let judges carry weapons into
their court chambers. "I believe in it."

His bill died in committee, but it will be back next year. New
Mexico this year already broadened its concealed-weapons law,
passed just two years ago, to drop the age requirement to 21 and
allow the state to reach agreements with other states so
gun-carriers can cross borders without worry.

The push for concealed weapons began in the late 1980s, when all
but 10 states refused to allow residents to do so, or only
allowed it in special circumstances. But starting in 1989, those
barriers fell. Now it's up to 46, with 35 states allowing just
about anyone who is not a felon to get a permit.

The late 1990s saw a rise in gun control legislation. In 1999,
after 15 were killed, including the gunmen, at the shootings at
Columbine High School in Colorado, gun control gained a sharp
edge and legislators' attention.

Violence hasn't subsided this year, from courthouse shootings in
Atlanta and Tyler, Texas, to the school killings at Red Lake
(search), Minn., the most deadly since Columbine. But the
reaction has spurred something far different, drawing on the
idea that if the victims had weapons they might not be victims.

"At the scene of these crimes, despite all the good intentions
of the police, the prosecutors, the courts, the judges - they're
all coming in later," said Wayne LaPierre, chief executive of
the National Rifle Association (search). "The country as a whole
is taking another look, across the board, at the idea that maybe
it makes good sense to allow people to protect themselves in as
many situations as possible."

Current legislation in some cases is a direct response to the
recent shootings, though often predates it. In recent weeks:

- Florida legislators passed a measure allowing people to "meet
force with force" to defend themselves without fear of
prosecution, extending the right from their homes to anywhere
they're legally allowed to be. Gov. Jeb Bush said he intends to
sign it.

- Arizona's Senate approved letting people carry guns into bars
and restaurants, as long as they're not drinking. The House has
yet to act.

- North Dakota legislators approved removing the shooting test
needed for a concealed-weapon permit, though the bill awaits
final approval from the governor.

Even schools and workplaces, the scene of some of the most
horrific violence, saw restrictions fall. A new Virginia law
lets people with concealed handguns onto school grounds, as long
as they and the gun remain in their car. A 2004 Oklahoma law
lets employees with permits keep guns in cars in job parking
lots.

"Employers have a responsibility to make their workplace a safe
place. For them to let workers with guns onto the premises is
insane," said Brian Seibel, senior counsel at the Brady Campaign
to Prevent Gun Violence. And bars? "Hello? Do you want to mix
alcohol and guns?"

The shift in opinion and legislation comes directly from the
election outcomes of 2000 and 2004, and the national focus on
security after Sept. 11, both sides agree.

"There's an ebb and flow," Seibel said. "There's no question
that the NRA is on the offensive trying to roll back the gun
laws on the books. ... Their vision of society is everyone ought
to have a gun. That's not our view of a safe society. I don't
think it's Americans' view of a safe society."

Still, the struggle hasn't all been one-sided.

Missouri, where legislators approved a concealed-weapon law even
though a statewide referendum rejected it in 1999, gave cities
the right to restrict weapons on city-owned property.
Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and Philadelphia Mayor John Street,
both Democrats, are studying sweeping changes.

Illinois, one of the significant battlegrounds, saw legislation
that seeks to ban .50-caliber ammunition, close a loophole that
allows sales at gun shows without background checks, and require
guns to be sold with "trigger lock" safety devices. Gun-rights
interests scored a victory last week by killing a bill that
would allow lawsuits against gun dealers.

Anderson, in New Mexico, said restrictions are outlawing the way
he grew up, when he learned about guns before he was a teenager.
In his view, restrictions make crime more likely, and his view
seems on the rise.

"There should be the possibility that any house on the street
should have a weapon," he said. "Do I think every house should
have one? No. But the bad guy should think so."



--
GunWoman - Armed and Safer in the USA

.
User: "Grassroots American"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 27 Jul 2005 03:25:12 PM
"Larry Hewitt" <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote :


"GunWoman" <GunWoman@guns-notspam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns969FAF2F9AD46GunWomangunsnotspamc@216.196.97.142...

In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined

Saturday, April 09, 2005

With more than four out of five states allowing law-abiding
citizens to carry concealed weapons, that argument is
finished.


Hmmm. I think you speak too soon. Police hee in the Carolinas
are rethinkiing the issue. Why?

In the City of Charlotte violence broke out on July 4th.
Drunks poured out onto city streets after the fireworks
display, and gunfire erupted from drunks with concealed carry
permits.

....
You're a lying shitbag!
--
Grassroots
United States of America
.

User: "James F. Mayer"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 27 Jul 2005 08:20:06 PM
"Larry Hewitt" <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:dc8o3v$9ct0$1@news3.infoave.net...


"GunWoman" <GunWoman@guns-notspam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns969FAF2F9AD46GunWomangunsnotspamc@216.196.97.142...

In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined

Saturday, April 09, 2005

With more than four out of five states allowing law-abiding
citizens to carry concealed weapons, that argument is finished.


Hmmm. I think you speak too soon. Police hee in the Carolinas are
rethinkiing the issue. Why?

In the City of Charlotte violence broke out on July 4th. Drunks poured out
onto city streets after the fireworks display, and gunfire erupted from
drunks with concealed carry permits.

In South Carolina a repuglicon gunernatorial candidate had to file charges
against a neighbor, a repuglicon official with a concealed carry permit,
because the neighbor threatened him (Police took the permit).

In Rock Hill there have been at least three shootings and one death from
legal guuns and concealed carry permits so far this year.

In fact, the threat of gun violence has grwon so muvch in this region that
more and more business and employers are posting signs forbidding guns on
the premises. More than a dozen have been fires in the region for carrying
a
gun to work.

Larry

If any of this were true, the Brady group would be all over it and
pushing for more gun control. I haven't heard a peep.
.

User: "Parsifal"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 27 Jul 2005 03:06:53 PM
I think that anything that causes 30 000 death a year should be
re-examined. Especially considering that no other "civilized" nation
allows civilians to bear guns and, guess what, no one feel deprived of
a "fundamental" right...
I'm sure some morons will answer that "cars kill more" but I don't have
time for them...
.
User: "Jim Smith"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 27 Jul 2005 08:11:35 PM
"Parsifal" <jean-pascal.vachon@chello.at> wrote in message
news:1122494813.220642.313100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I think that anything that causes 30 000 death a year should be
re-examined. Especially considering that no other "civilized"
nation
allows civilians to bear guns and, guess what, no one feel
deprived of
a "fundamental" right...
I'm sure some morons will answer that "cars kill more" but I don't
have
time for them...

How about Israel, or Switzerland, just to name a few?
Jim Smith
.
User: "SaPeIsMa"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 06:17:27 AM
"Jim Smith" <j_h_smith@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jfKdndiD_8lfrXXfRVn-tQ@comcast.com...

"Parsifal" <jean-pascal.vachon@chello.at> wrote in message
news:1122494813.220642.313100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I think that anything that causes 30 000 death a year should be
re-examined. Especially considering that no other "civilized" nation
allows civilians to bear guns and, guess what, no one feel deprived of
a "fundamental" right...
I'm sure some morons will answer that "cars kill more" but I don't have
time for them...


How about Israel, or Switzerland, just to name a few?


His problem is that he thinks that guns "caused" those deaths.
Mexico, Jamaica have for more homicides and yet they have very strict
control of guns.
That put's his animistic argument in the toilet
But is he smart enought to get it ?
.
User: "Parsifal"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 03:10:21 PM
Ah, the special relationship of Americans with guns...
No one can get it, no one can explain it and, most important, no one
can even question it...
Must be a sexual problem...
.
User: "Canada Sucks"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 04:32:37 PM
"Parsifal" <jean-pascal.vachon@chello.at> wrote :

Ah, the special relationship of Americans with guns...
No one can get it, no one can explain it and, most important,
no one can even question it...
Must be a sexual problem...


Yeah, one that you cocksucking french weasels apparently have!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional
maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to
Psychoanalysis (1952)
.
User: "Parsifal"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 05:08:40 PM
I'm not French.
And no one around me owns guns and no one I know in any of the country
I've lived in owns guns. Why are you calling us "cocksuckers", small
penis? Do you envy the fact that I can go wherever I want without the
fear of being shot or the absence of metal detector in schools?
Freud was a cocaine addict (hey, just like your mentor, Dubya...) who
also had a lot of issues with sex. He probably was an American trapped
in an Austrian body...
By the way, USA sucks even more...
.
User: "Bird Dog"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 01 Aug 2005 04:40:55 PM
"Parsifal" <jean-pascal.vachon@chello.at> wrote in message
news:1122588520.474672.233200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I'm not French.
And no one around me owns guns and no one I know in any of the country
I've lived in owns guns.

I'd really, really like to know where you live? It sure ain't the South or
West, which leaves the Northeast. But where?
.

User: "Joe Bridgehouse"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 05:43:13 PM
Parsifal wrote:

I'm not French.
And no one around me owns guns and no one I know in any of the country
I've lived in owns guns. Why are you calling us "cocksuckers", small
penis? Do you envy the fact that I can go wherever I want without the
fear of being shot or the absence of metal detector in schools?

Freud was a cocaine addict
Cocaine's effects appear almost immediately after a single dose, and disappear within a few minutes or hours.

Taken in small amounts (up to 100 mg), cocaine usually makes the user
feel euphoric, energetic, talkative, and mentally alert,
especially to the sensations of sight, sound, and touch. It can also
temporarily decrease the need for food and sleep.
Some users find that the drug helps them to perform simple physical
and intellectual tasks more quickly.
Going off that the coke helped Freud suss you assholes out a bit quicker
.



User: "Joe Bridgehouse"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 05:32:01 PM
Parsifal wrote:

Ah, the special relationship of Americans with guns...
No one can get it, no one can explain it and, most important, no one
can even question it...
Must be a sexual problem...

Thats funny, Freud said you were the one with the problem
.




User: "Bill Smith"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 03 Aug 2005 03:38:01 PM
On 27 Jul 2005 13:06:53 -0700, "Parsifal"
<jean-pascal.vachon@chello.at> wrote:

I think that anything that causes 30 000 death a year should be
re-examined. Especially considering that no other "civilized" nation
allows civilians to bear guns and, guess what, no one feel deprived of
a "fundamental" right...
I'm sure some morons will answer that "cars kill more" but I don't have
time for them...

What is it that causes 30,000 deaths each year? Certainly not guns
because they are inanimate objects and can't "cause" anything. Next?
Bill Smith
.

User: "Joe Bridgehouse"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 27 Jul 2005 06:50:37 PM
Parsifal wrote:

I think that anything that causes 30 000 death a year should be
re-examined. Especially considering that no other "civilized" nation
allows civilians to bear guns and, guess what, no one feel deprived of
a "fundamental" right...
I'm sure some morons will answer that "cars kill more" but I don't have
time for them...

You dont have time for common sense either, going off that post.
.


User: "RD Sandman"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 28 Jul 2005 03:05:51 PM
Larry Hewitt wrote on 7/27/2005 :

"GunWoman" <GunWoman@guns-notspam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns969FAF2F9AD46GunWomangunsnotspamc@216.196.97.142...

In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined

Saturday, April 09, 2005

With more than four out of five states allowing law-abiding
citizens to carry concealed weapons, that argument is finished.


Hmmm. I think you speak too soon. Police hee in the Carolinas are
rethinkiing the issue. Why?

In the City of Charlotte violence broke out on July 4th. Drunks poured out
onto city streets after the fireworks display, and gunfire erupted from
drunks with concealed carry permits.

In South Carolina a repuglicon gunernatorial candidate had to file charges
against a neighbor, a repuglicon official with a concealed carry permit,
because the neighbor threatened him (Police took the permit).

In Rock Hill there have been at least three shootings and one death from
legal guuns and concealed carry permits so far this year.

In fact, the threat of gun violence has grwon so muvch in this region that
more and more business and employers are posting signs forbidding guns on
the premises. More than a dozen have been fires in the region for carrying a
gun to work.

Larry

How much of this do you have cites for, Larry? One, two, three, none?
--
RD (The Sandman)
A real man has to believe in something....I believe I'll have another
beer.
School - (n) Four walls.......with tomorrow inside.
Success comes in a can; failure in a cannot....
Whether you think you can......or can't.......you're right.
I finally got everything together......now if I can only remember where
I put them.
.

User: "The Chief"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 04 Aug 2005 04:36:18 PM
South Carolina was never very gun friendly anyway. I was surprised when
they allowed concealed carry in the first place.
.


User: "The Chief"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 04 Aug 2005 04:33:32 PM

courthouse shootings in Atlanta<

Which no gun control law imaginable, short of disarming the police,
could have prevented. He DID take the gun away from a deputy sheriff,
you know.
.
User: "RD Sandman"

Title: Re: In Recent Violence, Gun Laws Examined 04 Aug 2005 05:27:48 PM
The Chief presented the following explanation :

courthouse shootings in Atlanta<


Which no gun control law imaginable, short of disarming the police, could
have prevented. He DID take the gun away from a deputy sheriff, you know.

Actually, he took the key to the lock box away from the deputy sheriff.
She was unarmed.
--
RD (The Sandman)
A real man has to believe in something....I believe I'll have another
beer.
School - (n) Four walls.......with tomorrow inside.
Success comes in a can; failure in a cannot....
Whether you think you can......or can't.......you're right.
I finally got everything together......now if I can only remember where
I put them.
.



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