| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Black Elk" |
| Date: |
03 Dec 2005 09:17:01 AM |
| Object: |
Is Bush lying about his lies? |
Is Bush lying about his lies?
November 25, 2005
BY ANDREW GREELEY
Not only did the Bush administration deceive the American people about the
reasons for invading Iraq, it is now deceiving them about the deceptions. In
a burst of political tantrums, the president and the vice president have
shouted that it was "irresponsible" to assert that there had been deception
and it was unfair to the troops fighting in Iraq.
Is the administration lying about its lies? That many of the arguments in
favor of the war were false is beyond question. Nor can there be any serious
doubt that the new argument that it is irresponsible to question the old
arguments is also false. But if a lie is a conscious effort to deceive, then
the charge that the president and the men around him deliberately lied and
are now lying again, then that issue must be left to heaven. It is enough to
say they spread falsehoods three years because they had made up their minds
that there had to be a war and are now spreading falsehoods about the
original falsehoods. The president is not a man who likes to admit he was
wrong. Therefore, one must cover up the mistakes.
Consider some of the evidence. Vice President ***** Cheney and the president
both insisted that Iraq was trying to import "yellowcake" uranium for
nuclear weapons. Then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and the
vice president warned of "mushroom clouds."
Bush says that everyone agreed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. He
has said in the past that it was not his fault that all the intelligence
agencies of the world believed that they did. Therefore, the intelligence
agencies of the world were to blame for the mistake, he wasn't. Everyone in
Washington, he argues, supported the war.
In truth, many Democratic senators did, not realizing how much the case in
favor of the war had been cooked. In the national intelligence estimate
issued just before the war, the internal dissent was excluded. The
administration had created an atmosphere of fear and deception that indeed
won support for the war.
Now we realize that even before Sept. 11, the powerful people in the
administration (Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz) wanted a war with Iraq. The
day of the attack some of them tried to find evidence that Iraq had attacked
us. Now there was certainly going to be a war, and the challenge was to
present a case to the American people to win their support for the war.
The search for evidence was essentially a search to make the case, not a
search for the truth, much as one prepares a political campaign or support
for legislation or drafts a legal brief. One looked for evidence that would
justify the war as preventing Rice's mushroom clouds. One took whatever one
could find. Even Colin Powell says his sad attempt to be the Adlai Stevenson
of his day was the worst experience of his life. The U.N. inspectors found
no evidence of weapons of mass destruction. But that conclusion was
dismissed, in effect, as a typical example of U.N. "waffling." No one in the
administration, as far as I know, has ever said that the inspectors were
right. It would seem such a suggestion is "irresponsible."
The buck stops in the Oval Office. If the president was not deliberately
lying to the American people, he nonetheless presided over what was in
effect and in truth a massive deception. He would be much wiser to admit his
mistake and assume responsibility, but it is apparently not in his character
to do so.
Moreover at least three-fifths of the American people now believe that he
did in fact deceive them. The question arises as to whether he and Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are also deceiving us on the certainty of victory
in Iraq. Granting for the sake of an argument that we must train a
functioning Iraq army, why will no one in the administration predict how
long that will take? Why after several years of that effort is there only
one fully capable Iraqi unit (of 750 men)?
James Fallows, in a long and careful article in the Atlantic Monthly, says
that it would probably take 10 years, just as anonymous hints from the
Pentagon assert. The alternative is set a strict schedule for withdrawal,
which Fallows admits would be a loss of honor.
Whose honor? That of the United States or those who fabricated the reasons
for the war? What honor do Bush and Cheney have left?
http://www.suntimes.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?getReferrer=http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel25.html#
--
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1435181,00.html
www.iraqbodycount.net
www.costofwar.com
http://icasualties.org/oif/
--
The fair use of a copyrighted work:
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.
For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.
.
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| User: "Muhammed Mustafo Goldstein Jr" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
03 Dec 2005 02:16:13 PM |
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"Black Elk" <windriver2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:262e1$4391b6ed$4fee2b9$21091@DIALUPUSA.NET...
Is Bush lying about his lies?
Bush is a pathological liar, once he has lied he must do all he can to
perpatuate the lie in the effort of covering up having to admit any
mistakes. As screwed up as everything has become Bush has not once yet
admitted to any mistakes. He is a clinical example of a pathological liar.
The really sad part is that their are still so many people who believe in
what he says and will do all they can to cover for him or defend him. I
don't know what the clinical name for those types would be, I just assume
that those types feel the need to belong to something to establish some type
of identity. Its just like being a member of a gang in need of some type of
comraderie to establish some sort of self worth no matter how damning it may
be. This type of sickness runs rampant throughout our society from the most
elite political spooks on down to the down and out thugs who run the
streets. The only difference is one group wears a shirt and tie with a phd
and the other wears a pair of stolen nikes with pants hanging down there
asses.
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| User: "Christopher Helms" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
05 Dec 2005 09:40:37 AM |
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This type of sickness runs rampant throughout our society from the most
elite political spooks on down to the down and out thugs who run the
streets. The only difference is one group wears a shirt and tie with a phd
and the other wears a pair of stolen nikes with pants hanging down there
asses.
The people who defend him tend to fall into roughly three catagories:
1. The media, made up of people who work for huge corporations that
frequently have a vested financial interest in making sure George W
Bush and in fact the entire conservative movement are always portrayed
in the best possible light.
2. Gullible Americans who get their information from the above sources
and who simply are not catching on to what is being done or why.
3. Religious fundamentalists who are operating under the delusion that
conservatives care about them. Conservatives have been hustling the
bombs and jesus crowd since the late 1970s, they have never delivered
anything at all to them, but the scam continues unabated because like
Fox News viewers, they aren't catching on, either.
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| User: "enthalphy" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
05 Dec 2005 09:55:48 AM |
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"Christopher Helms" <Chrishelms132@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133797237.888798.83970@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
3. Religious fundamentalists who are operating under the delusion that
conservatives care about them. Conservatives have been hustling the
bombs and jesus crowd since the late 1970s, they have never delivered
anything at all to them, but the scam continues unabated because like
Fox News viewers, they aren't catching on, either.
It isn't "conservatives" hustling them it is Jews. Prior to the mid-Sixties
the Jews were called liberals and running the super-conservative Democrats
that were fighting the godless Commies. When the Democrats wised up and saw
that VietNam was a war being run by Rostows, et. al., for Israel the Jews
became neo-conservatives and bought the Republican Party lock stock and
barrel. Just look at Bloomberg as a another example; he is a fine
upstanding typical modern day Republican. Look at who is making all the
money off of these wars.
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| User: "OrionCA" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
05 Dec 2005 09:56:25 AM |
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On 5 Dec 2005 07:40:37 -0800, "Christopher Helms"
<Chrishelms132@yahoo.com> wrote:
This type of sickness runs rampant throughout our society from the most
elite political spooks on down to the down and out thugs who run the
streets. The only difference is one group wears a shirt and tie with a phd
and the other wears a pair of stolen nikes with pants hanging down there
asses.
The people who defend him tend to fall into roughly three catagories:
1. The media, made up of people who work for huge corporations that
frequently have a vested financial interest in making sure George W
Bush and in fact the entire conservative movement are always portrayed
in the best possible light.
Ye gods, are YOU delusional.
2. Gullible Americans who get their information from the above sources
and who simply are not catching on to what is being done or why.
Uh, huh. Delusional and a paranoid schizophrenic.
3. Religious fundamentalists who are operating under the delusion that
conservatives care about them. Conservatives have been hustling the
bombs and jesus crowd since the late 1970s, they have never delivered
anything at all to them, but the scam continues unabated because like
Fox News viewers, they aren't catching on, either.
Delusional. schizo, AND stupid. It's no wonder the GOP keeps beating
you ***** off.
--
"It's a cliche that happens to be true: To win support,
candidates and parties have to stand for something.
They cannot be strictly against the opposition. Even
worse, they cannot be for and against what the other
side believes in."
- Boston Globe, 1/13/05
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/01/13/blurred_messages_from_democrats?mode=PF
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| User: "Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
04 Dec 2005 12:52:15 AM |
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The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception
(Hardcover)
by David Corn "As soon as Bush crashed the race-which already had a
crowded field-he was the lead cowboy..." (more)
SIPs: his energy plan, tax relief package, his tax cuts, tax cuts
package, arsenic standard (more)
CAPs: The Lies of George, White House, Washington Post, New York Times,
Saddam Hussein (more)
It's getting a little hard to find a book about George W. Bush that
doesn't have the word lie in the title. First came Joe Conanson's Big
Lies [BKL Ag 03], which was followed by Al Franken's Lies and the Lying
Liars That Tell Them [BKL S 15 03]. Corn's take on the topic is
straightforward and chronological. No raised voices here. The longtime
editor of the Nation, Corn sets out to build a serious case against
Bush in which the president's own words indict him. Beginning with the
2000 campaign ("I am a uniter, not a divider"), Corn examines Bush's
record on many issues--the environment, health, the war on terror--all
referenced to the president's words, e.g., "The bottom end of the
economic ladder receives the biggest percentage [tax] cuts." Obviously,
how one views the Bush presidency will color one's reaction to the
conclusions drawn here, and though Corn sources much of his material
within the text, it is too bad there are no notes appended. It is also
unfortunate for Corn that so many books about Republican dissembling
have come out lately (others include those by Molly Ivins and Eric
Alterman). This is a judicious and readable offering, but the target
audience may feel they've heard it all before. Still, Corn is sure to
do a round of talking-head appearances, so there may be enough buzz to
create demand. Ilene Cooper
Copyright ? American Library Association. All rights reserved
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400050669/qid=1060280098/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/002-3724812-0456867?n=283155
(69 customer reviews)
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| User: "Black Elk" |
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| Title: Proof that neo-fascists are spineless trolls. >>> Re: ALL LIBERALS ARE IGNORANT PUSS BRAINS!!!!! ==> Is Bush lying about his lies? |
03 Dec 2005 11:40:01 PM |
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Doomed to defeat by the superior Allied forces, it was thought that the
forces of fascism had been routed and that the world was safe for democracy.
The irony is that the intelligence apparatus of the U.S. government saved
many of the most hardened Nazi war criminals from a certain execution in
order to recruit them as scientists, spies and guerrilla warriors in the
anticipated war with the Soviet Union. And this had dire effects on our
country's democracy.
Many Americans may not be aware of this wide spread recruitment of SS and
Gestapo alumni into our intelligence agencies but it has had a profound
effect on the shaping of our domestic and foreign policy, often with ruinous
consequences. The legacy of this incorporation of Nazis into the CIA and
U.S. military has been a half a century of support for fascist regimes,
juntas, death squads, torture and the overthrow of democratically elected
governments around the world.
http://archive.democrats.com/view2.cfm?id=9099
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| User: "A Veteran for Peace" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
03 Dec 2005 10:16:47 AM |
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In article <262e1$4391b6ed$4fee2b9$21091@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
"Black Elk" <windriver2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
Is Bush lying about his lies?
November 25, 2005
BY ANDREW GREELEY
Not only did the Bush administration deceive the American people about the
reasons for invading Iraq, it is now deceiving them about the deceptions. In
a burst of political tantrums, the president and the vice president have
shouted that it was "irresponsible" to assert that there had been deception
and it was unfair to the troops fighting in Iraq.
Is the administration lying about its lies? That many of the arguments in
favor of the war were false is beyond question. Nor can there be any serious
doubt that the new argument that it is irresponsible to question the old
arguments is also false. But if a lie is a conscious effort to deceive, then
the charge that the president and the men around him deliberately lied and
are now lying again, then that issue must be left to heaven. It is enough to
say they spread falsehoods three years because they had made up their minds
that there had to be a war and are now spreading falsehoods about the
original falsehoods. The president is not a man who likes to admit he was
wrong. Therefore, one must cover up the mistakes.
Consider some of the evidence. Vice President ***** Cheney and the president
both insisted that Iraq was trying to import "yellowcake" uranium for
nuclear weapons. Then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and the
vice president warned of "mushroom clouds."
Bush says that everyone agreed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. He
has said in the past that it was not his fault that all the intelligence
agencies of the world believed that they did. Therefore, the intelligence
agencies of the world were to blame for the mistake, he wasn't. Everyone in
Washington, he argues, supported the war.
In truth, many Democratic senators did, not realizing how much the case in
favor of the war had been cooked. In the national intelligence estimate
issued just before the war, the internal dissent was excluded. The
administration had created an atmosphere of fear and deception that indeed
won support for the war.
Now we realize that even before Sept. 11, the powerful people in the
administration (Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz) wanted a war with Iraq. The
day of the attack some of them tried to find evidence that Iraq had attacked
us. Now there was certainly going to be a war, and the challenge was to
present a case to the American people to win their support for the war.
The search for evidence was essentially a search to make the case, not a
search for the truth, much as one prepares a political campaign or support
for legislation or drafts a legal brief. One looked for evidence that would
justify the war as preventing Rice's mushroom clouds. One took whatever one
could find. Even Colin Powell says his sad attempt to be the Adlai Stevenson
of his day was the worst experience of his life. The U.N. inspectors found
no evidence of weapons of mass destruction. But that conclusion was
dismissed, in effect, as a typical example of U.N. "waffling." No one in the
administration, as far as I know, has ever said that the inspectors were
right. It would seem such a suggestion is "irresponsible."
The buck stops in the Oval Office. If the president was not deliberately
lying to the American people, he nonetheless presided over what was in
effect and in truth a massive deception. He would be much wiser to admit his
mistake and assume responsibility, but it is apparently not in his character
to do so.
Moreover at least three-fifths of the American people now believe that he
did in fact deceive them. The question arises as to whether he and Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are also deceiving us on the certainty of victory
in Iraq. Granting for the sake of an argument that we must train a
functioning Iraq army, why will no one in the administration predict how
long that will take? Why after several years of that effort is there only
one fully capable Iraqi unit (of 750 men)?
James Fallows, in a long and careful article in the Atlantic Monthly, says
that it would probably take 10 years, just as anonymous hints from the
Pentagon assert. The alternative is set a strict schedule for withdrawal,
which Fallows admits would be a loss of honor.
Whose honor? That of the United States or those who fabricated the reasons
for the war? What honor do Bush and Cheney have left?
http://www.suntimes.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?getReferrer=http://www.suntimes.com/
output/greeley/cst-edt-greel25.html#
--
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1435181,00.html
www.iraqbodycount.net
www.costofwar.com
http://icasualties.org/oif/
If you asked a liar , whether they were a liar. ... hmmmmmmmmm ????
--
Impeach Bush ! a noble cause
Operation Iraqi Liberation = O.I.L.
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Is Bush lying about his lies? |
04 Dec 2005 12:13:04 AM |
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On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:17:01 -0700, "Black Elk"
<windriver2000@yahoo.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
In
a burst of political tantrums, the president and the vice president have
shouted that it was "irresponsible" to assert that there had been deception
and it was unfair to the troops fighting in Iraq.
Since when is pointing out the obvious truths irresponsible? All I am
doing is quoting the president on my website to point out his lies.
These things he said are all a matter of public record.
see http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqlies.html
http://mindprod.com/politics/bushismslies.html#LIES
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
http://mindprod.com Java custom programming, consulting and coaching.
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