| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"peace.seeker.27" |
| Date: |
21 Feb 2007 05:02:25 PM |
| Object: |
Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
The Palestinian Accords
Facing Mecca
By URI AVNERY
Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of
America to exist?
Interesting question. The USA was established by Europeans who invaded
a continent that did not belong to them, eradicated most of the
indigenous population (the "Red Indians") in a prolonged campaign of
genocide, and exploited the labor of millions of slaves who had been
brutally torn from their lives in Africa. Not to mention what is going
on today. Must a Native-American--or indeed anybody at all--recognize
the right of such a state to exist?
But nobody raises the question. The United States does not give a damn
if anybody recognizes its right to exist or not. It does not demand
this from the countries with which it maintains relations.
Why? Because this is a ridiculous demand to start with.
OK, the United States is older than the State of Israel, as well as
bigger and more powerful. But countries that are not super-powers do
not demand this either. India, for example, is not expected to
recognize Pakistan's "right to exist", in spite of the fact that
Pakistan was established at the same time as Israel, and--like Israel--
on an ethnic/religious basis.
* * *
SO WHY is Hamas required to "recognize Israel's right to exist"?
When a state "recognizes" another state, it is a formal recognition,
the acknowledgement of an existing fact. It does not imply approval.
The Soviet Union was not required to recognize the existence of the
USA as a capitalist state. On the contrary, Nikita Khrushchev promised
in 1956 to "bury" it. The US certainly did not dream of recognizing at
any time the right of the Soviet Union to exist as a communist state.
So why is this weird demand addressed to the Palestinians? Why must
they recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State?
I am an Israeli patriot, and I do not feel that I need anybody's
recognition of the right of my state to exist. If somebody is ready to
make peace with me, within borders and on conditions agreed upon in
negotiations, that is quite enough for me. I am prepared to leave the
history, ideology and theology of the matter to the theologians,
ideologues and historians.
Perhaps after 60 years of the existence of Israel, and after we have
become a regional power, we are still so unsure of ourselves that we
crave for constant assurance of our right to exist--and of all people,
from those that we have been oppressing for the last 40 years. Perhaps
it is the mentality of the Ghetto that is still so deeply ingrained in
us.
But the demand addressed now to the Palestinian Unity Government is
far from sincere. It has an ulterior political aim, indeed two: (a) to
convince the international community not to recognize the Palestinian
government that is about to be set up, and (b) to justify the refusal
of the Israeli government to enter into peace negotiations with it.
The British call this a "red herring"--a smelly fish that a fugitive
drags across the path in order to put the pursuing dogs off the trail.
* * *
WHEN I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our
secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some
peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say "no". True, the Zionist
leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the
existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise
of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say "yes"
and "we extend our hand for peace"--and rely on the Arabs to scuttle
the proposal.
That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed
the rules, recognized Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which
stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel
and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day,
those negotiations have not even started. Successive Israeli
governments have prevented it because they were not ready under any
circumstances to fix final borders. (The 2000 Camp David meeting was
not a real negotiation--Ehud Barak convened it without any
preparation, dictated his terms to the Palestinians and broke the
dialogue off when they were refused.)
* * *
After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult.
Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But
Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly
wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any
negotiations with him. The "Unilateral Separation" served this end.
President Bush supported him with both hands.
Well, Sharon suffered his stroke, and Ehud Olmert took his place. And
then something happened that caused great joy in Jerusalem: the
Palestinians elected Hamas.
How wonderful! After all, both the US and Europe have designated Hamas
as a terrorist organization! Hamas is a part of the Shiite Axis of
Evil! (They are not Shiites, but who cares!) Hamas does not recognize
Israel! Hamas is trying to eliminate Mahmoud Abbas, the noble man of
peace! It is clear that with such a gang there is no need, nor would
it make any sense, to conduct negotiations about peace and borders.
And indeed, the US and their European satellites are boycotting the
Palestinian government and starving the Palestinian population. They
have set three conditions for lifting the blockade:
(a) that the Palestinian government and Hamas must recognize the right
of the State of Israel to exist,
(b) they must stop "terrorism", and
(c) they must undertake to fulfill the agreements signed by the PLO.
On the face of it, that makes sense. In reality, none at all. Because
all these conditions are completely one-sided:
a) the Palestinians must recognize the right of Israel to exist
(without defining its borders, of course), but the Israeli government
is not required to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist
at all.
(b) The Palestinians must put an end to "terrorism", but the Israeli
government is not required to stop its military operations in the
Palestinian territories and stop the building of settlements. The
"roadmap" does indeed say so, but that has been completely ignored by
everybody, including the Americans.
(c) The Palestinians must undertake to fulfill the agreements, but no
such undertaking is required from the Israeli government, which has
broken almost all provision of the Oslo agreement. Among others: the
opening of the "safe passages" between Gaza and the West Bank, the
carrying out of the third "redeployment" (withdrawal from Palestinian
territories), the treatment of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one
single territory, etc. etc.
Since Hamas came to power, its leaders have understood the need to
become more flexible. They are very sensitive to the mood of their
people. The Palestinian population is longing for an end to the
occupation and for a life of peace. Therefore, step by step, Hamas has
come nearer to recognition of Israel. Their religious doctrine does
not allow them to declare this publicly (Jewish fundamentalists too
cling to the word of God "To your seed I have given this land") but it
has been doing so indirectly. Little steps, but a big revolution.
Hamas has announced its support for the establishment of a Palestinian
state bounded by the June 1967 borders--meaning: next to Israel and
not in place of Israel. (This week, ex-minister Kadura Fares repeated
that Hamas leader Khaled Mashal has confirmed this.) Hamas has given
Mahmoud Abbas a power of attorney to conduct the negotiations with
Israel and has undertaken in advance to accept any agreement ratified
in a referendum. Abbas, of course, clearly advocates the setting up of
a Palestinian state next to Israel, across the Green Line. There is no
doubt whatsoever that if such an agreement is achieved, the huge
majority of the Palestinian population will vote for it.
In Jerusalem, worry has set in. If this goes on, the world might even
get the impression that Hamas has changed, and then--God forbid--lift
the economic blockade on the Palestinian people.
Now the King of Saudi Arabia comes and disturbs Olmert's plans even
more.
In an impressive event, facing the holiest site of Islam, the king put
an end to the bloody strife between the Palestinian security organs
and prepared the ground for a Palestinian government of national
unity. Hamas undertook to respect the agreements signed by the PLO,
including the Oslo agreement, which is based on the mutual recognition
of the State of Israel and the PLO as representative of the
Palestinian people.
The king has extracted the Palestinian issue from the embrace of Iran,
to which Hamas had turned because it had no alternative, and has
returned Hamas to the lap of the Sunni family. Since Saudi Arabia is
the main ally of the US in the Arab world, the king has put the
Palestinian issue firmly on the table of the Oval Room.
In Jerusalem, near panic broke out. This is the scariest of
nightmares: the fear that the unconditional support of the US and
Europe for Israeli policy will be reconsidered.
The panic had immediate results: "political circles" in Jerusalem
announced that they rejected the Mecca agreement out of hand. Then
second thoughts set in. Shimon Peres, long established master of the
"yes-but-no" method, convinced Olmert that the brazen "no" must be
replaced with a more subtle "no". For this purpose, the red herring
was again taken out of the freezer.
It is not enough that Hamas recognize Israel in practice. Israel
insists that its "right to exist" must also be recognized. Political
recognition does not suffice, ideological recognition is required. By
this logic, one could also demand that Khaled Mashal join the Zionist
organization.
* * *
If one thinks that peace is more important for Israel than expansion
and settlements, one must welcome the change in the position of Hamas--
as expressed in the Mecca agreement--and encourage it to continue
along this road. The king of Saudi Arabia, who has already convinced
the leaders of all Arab countries to recognize Israel in exchange for
the establishment of the state of Palestine across the Green Line,
should be warmly congratulated.
But if one opposes peace because it would fix the final borders of
Israel and allow for no more expansion, one will do everything to
convince the Americans and Europeans to continue with the boycott on
the Palestinian government and the blockade of the Palestinian people.
* * *
The day after tomorrow, Condoleezza Rice will convene a meeting of
Olmert and Abbas in Jerusalem.
The Americans now have a problem. On one side, they need the Saudi
king. Not only does he sit on huge oil reservoirs, but he is also the
center-piece of the "moderate Sunni bloc". If the king tells Bush that
the solution of the Palestinian problem is needed in order to dam the
spread of Iranian influence across the Middle East, his words will
carry a lot of weight. If Bush is planning a military attack on Iran,
as it seems he is, it is important for him to have the united support
of the Sunnis.
On the other side, the pro-Israel lobby--both Jewish and Christian--is
very important for Bush. It is vital for him to be able to count on
the "Christian base" of the Republican Party, which is composed of
fundamentalists who support the extreme Right in Israel, come what
may.
So what is to be done? Nothing. For this nothing, Condi found an apt
diplomatic slogan, taken from up-to-date American slang: "New
Political Horizons".
Clearly, she did not ponder on the meaning of these words. Because the
horizon is the symbol of a goal that will never be reached: the more
you approach it, the more it recedes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02172007.html
.
|
|
| User: "zr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
21 Feb 2007 07:22:33 PM |
|
|
Did the Indians ever suicide bomb the Europeans?
"peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelgange@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1172098945.766798.53680@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The Palestinian Accords
Facing Mecca
By URI AVNERY
Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of
America to exist?
Interesting question. The USA was established by Europeans who invaded
a continent that did not belong to them, eradicated most of the
indigenous population (the "Red Indians") in a prolonged campaign of
genocide, and exploited the labor of millions of slaves who had been
brutally torn from their lives in Africa. Not to mention what is going
on today. Must a Native-American--or indeed anybody at all--recognize
the right of such a state to exist?
But nobody raises the question. The United States does not give a damn
if anybody recognizes its right to exist or not. It does not demand
this from the countries with which it maintains relations.
Why? Because this is a ridiculous demand to start with.
OK, the United States is older than the State of Israel, as well as
bigger and more powerful. But countries that are not super-powers do
not demand this either. India, for example, is not expected to
recognize Pakistan's "right to exist", in spite of the fact that
Pakistan was established at the same time as Israel, and--like Israel--
on an ethnic/religious basis.
* * *
SO WHY is Hamas required to "recognize Israel's right to exist"?
When a state "recognizes" another state, it is a formal recognition,
the acknowledgement of an existing fact. It does not imply approval.
The Soviet Union was not required to recognize the existence of the
USA as a capitalist state. On the contrary, Nikita Khrushchev promised
in 1956 to "bury" it. The US certainly did not dream of recognizing at
any time the right of the Soviet Union to exist as a communist state.
So why is this weird demand addressed to the Palestinians? Why must
they recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State?
I am an Israeli patriot, and I do not feel that I need anybody's
recognition of the right of my state to exist. If somebody is ready to
make peace with me, within borders and on conditions agreed upon in
negotiations, that is quite enough for me. I am prepared to leave the
history, ideology and theology of the matter to the theologians,
ideologues and historians.
Perhaps after 60 years of the existence of Israel, and after we have
become a regional power, we are still so unsure of ourselves that we
crave for constant assurance of our right to exist--and of all people,
from those that we have been oppressing for the last 40 years. Perhaps
it is the mentality of the Ghetto that is still so deeply ingrained in
us.
But the demand addressed now to the Palestinian Unity Government is
far from sincere. It has an ulterior political aim, indeed two: (a) to
convince the international community not to recognize the Palestinian
government that is about to be set up, and (b) to justify the refusal
of the Israeli government to enter into peace negotiations with it.
The British call this a "red herring"--a smelly fish that a fugitive
drags across the path in order to put the pursuing dogs off the trail.
* * *
WHEN I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our
secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some
peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say "no". True, the Zionist
leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the
existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise
of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say "yes"
and "we extend our hand for peace"--and rely on the Arabs to scuttle
the proposal.
That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed
the rules, recognized Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which
stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel
and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day,
those negotiations have not even started. Successive Israeli
governments have prevented it because they were not ready under any
circumstances to fix final borders. (The 2000 Camp David meeting was
not a real negotiation--Ehud Barak convened it without any
preparation, dictated his terms to the Palestinians and broke the
dialogue off when they were refused.)
* * *
After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult.
Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But
Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly
wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any
negotiations with him. The "Unilateral Separation" served this end.
President Bush supported him with both hands.
Well, Sharon suffered his stroke, and Ehud Olmert took his place. And
then something happened that caused great joy in Jerusalem: the
Palestinians elected Hamas.
How wonderful! After all, both the US and Europe have designated Hamas
as a terrorist organization! Hamas is a part of the Shiite Axis of
Evil! (They are not Shiites, but who cares!) Hamas does not recognize
Israel! Hamas is trying to eliminate Mahmoud Abbas, the noble man of
peace! It is clear that with such a gang there is no need, nor would
it make any sense, to conduct negotiations about peace and borders.
And indeed, the US and their European satellites are boycotting the
Palestinian government and starving the Palestinian population. They
have set three conditions for lifting the blockade:
(a) that the Palestinian government and Hamas must recognize the right
of the State of Israel to exist,
(b) they must stop "terrorism", and
(c) they must undertake to fulfill the agreements signed by the PLO.
On the face of it, that makes sense. In reality, none at all. Because
all these conditions are completely one-sided:
a) the Palestinians must recognize the right of Israel to exist
(without defining its borders, of course), but the Israeli government
is not required to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist
at all.
(b) The Palestinians must put an end to "terrorism", but the Israeli
government is not required to stop its military operations in the
Palestinian territories and stop the building of settlements. The
"roadmap" does indeed say so, but that has been completely ignored by
everybody, including the Americans.
(c) The Palestinians must undertake to fulfill the agreements, but no
such undertaking is required from the Israeli government, which has
broken almost all provision of the Oslo agreement. Among others: the
opening of the "safe passages" between Gaza and the West Bank, the
carrying out of the third "redeployment" (withdrawal from Palestinian
territories), the treatment of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one
single territory, etc. etc.
Since Hamas came to power, its leaders have understood the need to
become more flexible. They are very sensitive to the mood of their
people. The Palestinian population is longing for an end to the
occupation and for a life of peace. Therefore, step by step, Hamas has
come nearer to recognition of Israel. Their religious doctrine does
not allow them to declare this publicly (Jewish fundamentalists too
cling to the word of God "To your seed I have given this land") but it
has been doing so indirectly. Little steps, but a big revolution.
Hamas has announced its support for the establishment of a Palestinian
state bounded by the June 1967 borders--meaning: next to Israel and
not in place of Israel. (This week, ex-minister Kadura Fares repeated
that Hamas leader Khaled Mashal has confirmed this.) Hamas has given
Mahmoud Abbas a power of attorney to conduct the negotiations with
Israel and has undertaken in advance to accept any agreement ratified
in a referendum. Abbas, of course, clearly advocates the setting up of
a Palestinian state next to Israel, across the Green Line. There is no
doubt whatsoever that if such an agreement is achieved, the huge
majority of the Palestinian population will vote for it.
In Jerusalem, worry has set in. If this goes on, the world might even
get the impression that Hamas has changed, and then--God forbid--lift
the economic blockade on the Palestinian people.
Now the King of Saudi Arabia comes and disturbs Olmert's plans even
more.
In an impressive event, facing the holiest site of Islam, the king put
an end to the bloody strife between the Palestinian security organs
and prepared the ground for a Palestinian government of national
unity. Hamas undertook to respect the agreements signed by the PLO,
including the Oslo agreement, which is based on the mutual recognition
of the State of Israel and the PLO as representative of the
Palestinian people.
The king has extracted the Palestinian issue from the embrace of Iran,
to which Hamas had turned because it had no alternative, and has
returned Hamas to the lap of the Sunni family. Since Saudi Arabia is
the main ally of the US in the Arab world, the king has put the
Palestinian issue firmly on the table of the Oval Room.
In Jerusalem, near panic broke out. This is the scariest of
nightmares: the fear that the unconditional support of the US and
Europe for Israeli policy will be reconsidered.
The panic had immediate results: "political circles" in Jerusalem
announced that they rejected the Mecca agreement out of hand. Then
second thoughts set in. Shimon Peres, long established master of the
"yes-but-no" method, convinced Olmert that the brazen "no" must be
replaced with a more subtle "no". For this purpose, the red herring
was again taken out of the freezer.
It is not enough that Hamas recognize Israel in practice. Israel
insists that its "right to exist" must also be recognized. Political
recognition does not suffice, ideological recognition is required. By
this logic, one could also demand that Khaled Mashal join the Zionist
organization.
* * *
If one thinks that peace is more important for Israel than expansion
and settlements, one must welcome the change in the position of Hamas--
as expressed in the Mecca agreement--and encourage it to continue
along this road. The king of Saudi Arabia, who has already convinced
the leaders of all Arab countries to recognize Israel in exchange for
the establishment of the state of Palestine across the Green Line,
should be warmly congratulated.
But if one opposes peace because it would fix the final borders of
Israel and allow for no more expansion, one will do everything to
convince the Americans and Europeans to continue with the boycott on
the Palestinian government and the blockade of the Palestinian people.
* * *
The day after tomorrow, Condoleezza Rice will convene a meeting of
Olmert and Abbas in Jerusalem.
The Americans now have a problem. On one side, they need the Saudi
king. Not only does he sit on huge oil reservoirs, but he is also the
center-piece of the "moderate Sunni bloc". If the king tells Bush that
the solution of the Palestinian problem is needed in order to dam the
spread of Iranian influence across the Middle East, his words will
carry a lot of weight. If Bush is planning a military attack on Iran,
as it seems he is, it is important for him to have the united support
of the Sunnis.
On the other side, the pro-Israel lobby--both Jewish and Christian--is
very important for Bush. It is vital for him to be able to count on
the "Christian base" of the Republican Party, which is composed of
fundamentalists who support the extreme Right in Israel, come what
may.
So what is to be done? Nothing. For this nothing, Condi found an apt
diplomatic slogan, taken from up-to-date American slang: "New
Political Horizons".
Clearly, she did not ponder on the meaning of these words. Because the
horizon is the symbol of a goal that will never be reached: the more
you approach it, the more it recedes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02172007.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gary Renzetti" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
22 Feb 2007 09:17:07 PM |
|
|
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
"zr" <ngzr@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:qf6Dh.2212$_V2.1886@read1.cgocable.net...
Did the Indians ever suicide bomb the Europeans?
"peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelgange@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1172098945.766798.53680@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The Palestinian Accords
Facing Mecca
By URI AVNERY
Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of
America to exist?
Interesting question. The USA was established by Europeans who invaded
a continent that did not belong to them, eradicated most of the
indigenous population (the "Red Indians") in a prolonged campaign of
genocide, and exploited the labor of millions of slaves who had been
brutally torn from their lives in Africa. Not to mention what is going
on today. Must a Native-American--or indeed anybody at all--recognize
the right of such a state to exist?
But nobody raises the question. The United States does not give a damn
if anybody recognizes its right to exist or not. It does not demand
this from the countries with which it maintains relations.
Why? Because this is a ridiculous demand to start with.
OK, the United States is older than the State of Israel, as well as
bigger and more powerful. But countries that are not super-powers do
not demand this either. India, for example, is not expected to
recognize Pakistan's "right to exist", in spite of the fact that
Pakistan was established at the same time as Israel, and--like Israel--
on an ethnic/religious basis.
* * *
SO WHY is Hamas required to "recognize Israel's right to exist"?
When a state "recognizes" another state, it is a formal recognition,
the acknowledgement of an existing fact. It does not imply approval.
The Soviet Union was not required to recognize the existence of the
USA as a capitalist state. On the contrary, Nikita Khrushchev promised
in 1956 to "bury" it. The US certainly did not dream of recognizing at
any time the right of the Soviet Union to exist as a communist state.
So why is this weird demand addressed to the Palestinians? Why must
they recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State?
I am an Israeli patriot, and I do not feel that I need anybody's
recognition of the right of my state to exist. If somebody is ready to
make peace with me, within borders and on conditions agreed upon in
negotiations, that is quite enough for me. I am prepared to leave the
history, ideology and theology of the matter to the theologians,
ideologues and historians.
Perhaps after 60 years of the existence of Israel, and after we have
become a regional power, we are still so unsure of ourselves that we
crave for constant assurance of our right to exist--and of all people,
from those that we have been oppressing for the last 40 years. Perhaps
it is the mentality of the Ghetto that is still so deeply ingrained in
us.
But the demand addressed now to the Palestinian Unity Government is
far from sincere. It has an ulterior political aim, indeed two: (a) to
convince the international community not to recognize the Palestinian
government that is about to be set up, and (b) to justify the refusal
of the Israeli government to enter into peace negotiations with it.
The British call this a "red herring"--a smelly fish that a fugitive
drags across the path in order to put the pursuing dogs off the trail.
* * *
WHEN I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our
secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some
peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say "no". True, the Zionist
leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the
existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise
of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say "yes"
and "we extend our hand for peace"--and rely on the Arabs to scuttle
the proposal.
That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed
the rules, recognized Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which
stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel
and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day,
those negotiations have not even started. Successive Israeli
governments have prevented it because they were not ready under any
circumstances to fix final borders. (The 2000 Camp David meeting was
not a real negotiation--Ehud Barak convened it without any
preparation, dictated his terms to the Palestinians and broke the
dialogue off when they were refused.)
* * *
After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult.
Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But
Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly
wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any
negotiations with him. The "Unilateral Separation" served this end.
President Bush supported him with both hands.
Well, Sharon suffered his stroke, and Ehud Olmert took his place. And
then something happened that caused great joy in Jerusalem: the
Palestinians elected Hamas.
How wonderful! After all, both the US and Europe have designated Hamas
as a terrorist organization! Hamas is a part of the Shiite Axis of
Evil! (They are not Shiites, but who cares!) Hamas does not recognize
Israel! Hamas is trying to eliminate Mahmoud Abbas, the noble man of
peace! It is clear that with such a gang there is no need, nor would
it make any sense, to conduct negotiations about peace and borders.
And indeed, the US and their European satellites are boycotting the
Palestinian government and starving the Palestinian population. They
have set three conditions for lifting the blockade:
(a) that the Palestinian government and Hamas must recognize the right
of the State of Israel to exist,
(b) they must stop "terrorism", and
(c) they must undertake to fulfill the agreements signed by the PLO.
On the face of it, that makes sense. In reality, none at all. Because
all these conditions are completely one-sided:
a) the Palestinians must recognize the right of Israel to exist
(without defining its borders, of course), but the Israeli government
is not required to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist
at all.
(b) The Palestinians must put an end to "terrorism", but the Israeli
government is not required to stop its military operations in the
Palestinian territories and stop the building of settlements. The
"roadmap" does indeed say so, but that has been completely ignored by
everybody, including the Americans.
(c) The Palestinians must undertake to fulfill the agreements, but no
such undertaking is required from the Israeli government, which has
broken almost all provision of the Oslo agreement. Among others: the
opening of the "safe passages" between Gaza and the West Bank, the
carrying out of the third "redeployment" (withdrawal from Palestinian
territories), the treatment of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one
single territory, etc. etc.
Since Hamas came to power, its leaders have understood the need to
become more flexible. They are very sensitive to the mood of their
people. The Palestinian population is longing for an end to the
occupation and for a life of peace. Therefore, step by step, Hamas has
come nearer to recognition of Israel. Their religious doctrine does
not allow them to declare this publicly (Jewish fundamentalists too
cling to the word of God "To your seed I have given this land") but it
has been doing so indirectly. Little steps, but a big revolution.
Hamas has announced its support for the establishment of a Palestinian
state bounded by the June 1967 borders--meaning: next to Israel and
not in place of Israel. (This week, ex-minister Kadura Fares repeated
that Hamas leader Khaled Mashal has confirmed this.) Hamas has given
Mahmoud Abbas a power of attorney to conduct the negotiations with
Israel and has undertaken in advance to accept any agreement ratified
in a referendum. Abbas, of course, clearly advocates the setting up of
a Palestinian state next to Israel, across the Green Line. There is no
doubt whatsoever that if such an agreement is achieved, the huge
majority of the Palestinian population will vote for it.
In Jerusalem, worry has set in. If this goes on, the world might even
get the impression that Hamas has changed, and then--God forbid--lift
the economic blockade on the Palestinian people.
Now the King of Saudi Arabia comes and disturbs Olmert's plans even
more.
In an impressive event, facing the holiest site of Islam, the king put
an end to the bloody strife between the Palestinian security organs
and prepared the ground for a Palestinian government of national
unity. Hamas undertook to respect the agreements signed by the PLO,
including the Oslo agreement, which is based on the mutual recognition
of the State of Israel and the PLO as representative of the
Palestinian people.
The king has extracted the Palestinian issue from the embrace of Iran,
to which Hamas had turned because it had no alternative, and has
returned Hamas to the lap of the Sunni family. Since Saudi Arabia is
the main ally of the US in the Arab world, the king has put the
Palestinian issue firmly on the table of the Oval Room.
In Jerusalem, near panic broke out. This is the scariest of
nightmares: the fear that the unconditional support of the US and
Europe for Israeli policy will be reconsidered.
The panic had immediate results: "political circles" in Jerusalem
announced that they rejected the Mecca agreement out of hand. Then
second thoughts set in. Shimon Peres, long established master of the
"yes-but-no" method, convinced Olmert that the brazen "no" must be
replaced with a more subtle "no". For this purpose, the red herring
was again taken out of the freezer.
It is not enough that Hamas recognize Israel in practice. Israel
insists that its "right to exist" must also be recognized. Political
recognition does not suffice, ideological recognition is required. By
this logic, one could also demand that Khaled Mashal join the Zionist
organization.
* * *
If one thinks that peace is more important for Israel than expansion
and settlements, one must welcome the change in the position of Hamas--
as expressed in the Mecca agreement--and encourage it to continue
along this road. The king of Saudi Arabia, who has already convinced
the leaders of all Arab countries to recognize Israel in exchange for
the establishment of the state of Palestine across the Green Line,
should be warmly congratulated.
But if one opposes peace because it would fix the final borders of
Israel and allow for no more expansion, one will do everything to
convince the Americans and Europeans to continue with the boycott on
the Palestinian government and the blockade of the Palestinian people.
* * *
The day after tomorrow, Condoleezza Rice will convene a meeting of
Olmert and Abbas in Jerusalem.
The Americans now have a problem. On one side, they need the Saudi
king. Not only does he sit on huge oil reservoirs, but he is also the
center-piece of the "moderate Sunni bloc". If the king tells Bush that
the solution of the Palestinian problem is needed in order to dam the
spread of Iranian influence across the Middle East, his words will
carry a lot of weight. If Bush is planning a military attack on Iran,
as it seems he is, it is important for him to have the united support
of the Sunnis.
On the other side, the pro-Israel lobby--both Jewish and Christian--is
very important for Bush. It is vital for him to be able to count on
the "Christian base" of the Republican Party, which is composed of
fundamentalists who support the extreme Right in Israel, come what
may.
So what is to be done? Nothing. For this nothing, Condi found an apt
diplomatic slogan, taken from up-to-date American slang: "New
Political Horizons".
Clearly, she did not ponder on the meaning of these words. Because the
horizon is the symbol of a goal that will never be reached: the more
you approach it, the more it recedes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02172007.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "zr" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
23 Feb 2007 08:43:33 PM |
|
|
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizgary@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
"zr" <ngzr@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:qf6Dh.2212$_V2.1886@read1.cgocable.net...
Did the Indians ever suicide bomb the Europeans?
"peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelgange@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1172098945.766798.53680@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The Palestinian Accords
Facing Mecca
By URI AVNERY
Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of
America to exist?
Interesting question. The USA was established by Europeans who invaded
a continent that did not belong to them, eradicated most of the
indigenous population (the "Red Indians") in a prolonged campaign of
genocide, and exploited the labor of millions of slaves who had been
brutally torn from their lives in Africa. Not to mention what is going
on today. Must a Native-American--or indeed anybody at all--recognize
the right of such a state to exist?
But nobody raises the question. The United States does not give a damn
if anybody recognizes its right to exist or not. It does not demand
this from the countries with which it maintains relations.
Why? Because this is a ridiculous demand to start with.
OK, the United States is older than the State of Israel, as well as
bigger and more powerful. But countries that are not super-powers do
not demand this either. India, for example, is not expected to
recognize Pakistan's "right to exist", in spite of the fact that
Pakistan was established at the same time as Israel, and--like Israel--
on an ethnic/religious basis.
* * *
SO WHY is Hamas required to "recognize Israel's right to exist"?
When a state "recognizes" another state, it is a formal recognition,
the acknowledgement of an existing fact. It does not imply approval.
The Soviet Union was not required to recognize the existence of the
USA as a capitalist state. On the contrary, Nikita Khrushchev promised
in 1956 to "bury" it. The US certainly did not dream of recognizing at
any time the right of the Soviet Union to exist as a communist state.
So why is this weird demand addressed to the Palestinians? Why must
they recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State?
I am an Israeli patriot, and I do not feel that I need anybody's
recognition of the right of my state to exist. If somebody is ready to
make peace with me, within borders and on conditions agreed upon in
negotiations, that is quite enough for me. I am prepared to leave the
history, ideology and theology of the matter to the theologians,
ideologues and historians.
Perhaps after 60 years of the existence of Israel, and after we have
become a regional power, we are still so unsure of ourselves that we
crave for constant assurance of our right to exist--and of all people,
from those that we have been oppressing for the last 40 years. Perhaps
it is the mentality of the Ghetto that is still so deeply ingrained in
us.
But the demand addressed now to the Palestinian Unity Government is
far from sincere. It has an ulterior political aim, indeed two: (a) to
convince the international community not to recognize the Palestinian
government that is about to be set up, and (b) to justify the refusal
of the Israeli government to enter into peace negotiations with it.
The British call this a "red herring"--a smelly fish that a fugitive
drags across the path in order to put the pursuing dogs off the trail.
* * *
WHEN I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our
secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some
peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say "no". True, the Zionist
leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the
existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise
of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say "yes"
and "we extend our hand for peace"--and rely on the Arabs to scuttle
the proposal.
That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed
the rules, recognized Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which
stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel
and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day,
those negotiations have not even started. Successive Israeli
governments have prevented it because they were not ready under any
circumstances to fix final borders. (The 2000 Camp David meeting was
not a real negotiation--Ehud Barak convened it without any
preparation, dictated his terms to the Palestinians and broke the
dialogue off when they were refused.)
* * *
After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult.
Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But
Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly
wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any
negotiations with him. The "Unilateral Separation" served this end.
President Bush supported him with both hands.
Well, Sharon suffered his stroke, and Ehud Olmert took his place. And
then something happened that caused great joy in Jerusalem: the
Palestinians elected Hamas.
How wonderful! After all, both the US and Europe have designated Hamas
as a terrorist organization! Hamas is a part of the Shiite Axis of
Evil! (They are not Shiites, but who cares!) Hamas does not recognize
Israel! Hamas is trying to eliminate Mahmoud Abbas, the noble man of
peace! It is clear that with such a gang there is no need, nor would
it make any sense, to conduct negotiations about peace and borders.
And indeed, the US and their European satellites are boycotting the
Palestinian government and starving the Palestinian population. They
have set three conditions for lifting the blockade:
(a) that the Palestinian government and Hamas must recognize the right
of the State of Israel to exist,
(b) they must stop "terrorism", and
(c) they must undertake to fulfill the agreements signed by the PLO.
On the face of it, that makes sense. In reality, none at all. Because
all these conditions are completely one-sided:
a) the Palestinians must recognize the right of Israel to exist
(without defining its borders, of course), but the Israeli government
is not required to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist
at all.
(b) The Palestinians must put an end to "terrorism", but the Israeli
government is not required to stop its military operations in the
Palestinian territories and stop the building of settlements. The
"roadmap" does indeed say so, but that has been completely ignored by
everybody, including the Americans.
(c) The Palestinians must undertake to fulfill the agreements, but no
such undertaking is required from the Israeli government, which has
broken almost all provision of the Oslo agreement. Among others: the
opening of the "safe passages" between Gaza and the West Bank, the
carrying out of the third "redeployment" (withdrawal from Palestinian
territories), the treatment of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one
single territory, etc. etc.
Since Hamas came to power, its leaders have understood the need to
become more flexible. They are very sensitive to the mood of their
people. The Palestinian population is longing for an end to the
occupation and for a life of peace. Therefore, step by step, Hamas has
come nearer to recognition of Israel. Their religious doctrine does
not allow them to declare this publicly (Jewish fundamentalists too
cling to the word of God "To your seed I have given this land") but it
has been doing so indirectly. Little steps, but a big revolution.
Hamas has announced its support for the establishment of a Palestinian
state bounded by the June 1967 borders--meaning: next to Israel and
not in place of Israel. (This week, ex-minister Kadura Fares repeated
that Hamas leader Khaled Mashal has confirmed this.) Hamas has given
Mahmoud Abbas a power of attorney to conduct the negotiations with
Israel and has undertaken in advance to accept any agreement ratified
in a referendum. Abbas, of course, clearly advocates the setting up of
a Palestinian state next to Israel, across the Green Line. There is no
doubt whatsoever that if such an agreement is achieved, the huge
majority of the Palestinian population will vote for it.
In Jerusalem, worry has set in. If this goes on, the world might even
get the impression that Hamas has changed, and then--God forbid--lift
the economic blockade on the Palestinian people.
Now the King of Saudi Arabia comes and disturbs Olmert's plans even
more.
In an impressive event, facing the holiest site of Islam, the king put
an end to the bloody strife between the Palestinian security organs
and prepared the ground for a Palestinian government of national
unity. Hamas undertook to respect the agreements signed by the PLO,
including the Oslo agreement, which is based on the mutual recognition
of the State of Israel and the PLO as representative of the
Palestinian people.
The king has extracted the Palestinian issue from the embrace of Iran,
to which Hamas had turned because it had no alternative, and has
returned Hamas to the lap of the Sunni family. Since Saudi Arabia is
the main ally of the US in the Arab world, the king has put the
Palestinian issue firmly on the table of the Oval Room.
In Jerusalem, near panic broke out. This is the scariest of
nightmares: the fear that the unconditional support of the US and
Europe for Israeli policy will be reconsidered.
The panic had immediate results: "political circles" in Jerusalem
announced that they rejected the Mecca agreement out of hand. Then
second thoughts set in. Shimon Peres, long established master of the
"yes-but-no" method, convinced Olmert that the brazen "no" must be
replaced with a more subtle "no". For this purpose, the red herring
was again taken out of the freezer.
It is not enough that Hamas recognize Israel in practice. Israel
insists that its "right to exist" must also be recognized. Political
recognition does not suffice, ideological recognition is required. By
this logic, one could also demand that Khaled Mashal join the Zionist
organization.
* * *
If one thinks that peace is more important for Israel than expansion
and settlements, one must welcome the change in the position of Hamas--
as expressed in the Mecca agreement--and encourage it to continue
along this road. The king of Saudi Arabia, who has already convinced
the leaders of all Arab countries to recognize Israel in exchange for
the establishment of the state of Palestine across the Green Line,
should be warmly congratulated.
But if one opposes peace because it would fix the final borders of
Israel and allow for no more expansion, one will do everything to
convince the Americans and Europeans to continue with the boycott on
the Palestinian government and the blockade of the Palestinian people.
* * *
The day after tomorrow, Condoleezza Rice will convene a meeting of
Olmert and Abbas in Jerusalem.
The Americans now have a problem. On one side, they need the Saudi
king. Not only does he sit on huge oil reservoirs, but he is also the
center-piece of the "moderate Sunni bloc". If the king tells Bush that
the solution of the Palestinian problem is needed in order to dam the
spread of Iranian influence across the Middle East, his words will
carry a lot of weight. If Bush is planning a military attack on Iran,
as it seems he is, it is important for him to have the united support
of the Sunnis.
On the other side, the pro-Israel lobby--both Jewish and Christian--is
very important for Bush. It is vital for him to be able to count on
the "Christian base" of the Republican Party, which is composed of
fundamentalists who support the extreme Right in Israel, come what
may.
So what is to be done? Nothing. For this nothing, Condi found an apt
diplomatic slogan, taken from up-to-date American slang: "New
Political Horizons".
Clearly, she did not ponder on the meaning of these words. Because the
horizon is the symbol of a goal that will never be reached: the more
you approach it, the more it recedes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02172007.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Purple Pixies for Peace? |
25 Feb 2007 01:43:31 AM |
|
|
I fixed the subject header to reflect something more accurate than the
original.
Susan
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ariadne" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
23 Feb 2007 09:36:42 PM |
|
|
On 24 Feb, 02:43, "zr" <n...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizg...@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
The dhimmis' usual level of knowledge!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gary Renzetti" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
24 Feb 2007 02:34:12 PM |
|
|
"Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172288202.745471.243550@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On 24 Feb, 02:43, "zr" <n...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizg...@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
The dhimmis' usual level of knowledge!
Hey! 'zr' asked the question, and I answered it correctly. Obviously he
lacked this knowledge, or he needn't have asked, yes?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "DoD" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
23 Feb 2007 09:45:42 PM |
|
|
"Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172288202.745471.243550@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On 24 Feb, 02:43, "zr" <n...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizg...@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
The dhimmis' usual level of knowledge!
That's Rigatonni for you. He is on the level of connect the dots puzzles,
although they tend to puzzle him.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gary Renzetti" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
24 Feb 2007 02:35:25 PM |
|
|
"DoD" <thecats@ss.mil> wrote in message
news:45dfb4e0$0$28095$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Ariadne" <ariadne.mac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172288202.745471.243550@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On 24 Feb, 02:43, "zr" <n...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizg...@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
The dhimmis' usual level of knowledge!
That's Rigatonni for you. He is on the level of connect the dots puzzles,
although they tend to puzzle him.
Well, Yogodoodoo, we can't all be as stupid as yourself, unfortunately for
you.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Iamhere" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
24 Feb 2007 02:37:55 PM |
|
|
On Feb 23, 10:45 pm, "DoD" <thec...@ss.mil> wrote:
"Ariadne" <ariadne....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172288202.745471.243550@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
On 24 Feb, 02:43, "zr" <n...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizg...@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
The dhimmis' usual level of knowledge!
That's Rigatonni for you. He is on the level of connect the dots puzzles,
although they tend to puzzle him.
Rigatoni's momma's so ugly, her job application for scarecrow was
rejected.
Iamhere
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Flying Unicorns for Peace? |
25 Feb 2007 01:44:00 AM |
|
|
I fixed the subject header to reflect something more accurate than the
original.
Susan
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gary Renzetti" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
24 Feb 2007 02:32:41 PM |
|
|
They are the only "Indians" that there are, zr.
North/South American aboriginals are NOT "Indians".
Thus the answer to your question: "Did the Indians ever suicide bomb the
Europeans?", is: "Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?".
"zr" <ngzr@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:oDNDh.1614$fr.1170@read2.cgocable.net...
Wrong Indians, wrong continent.
"Gary Renzetti" <lizgary@connection.com> wrote in message
news:cd0b3$45df9d63$d8fe9d08$16651@PRIMUS.CA...
Yes. The Sepoy mutiny of what, 1856?
"zr" <ngzr@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:qf6Dh.2212$_V2.1886@read1.cgocable.net...
Did the Indians ever suicide bomb the Europeans?
"peace.seeker.27" <vesuvian.doppelgange@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1172098945.766798.53680@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The Palestinian Accords
Facing Mecca
By URI AVNERY
Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of
America to exist?
Interesting question. The USA was established by Europeans who invaded
a continent that did not belong to them, eradicated most of the
indigenous population (the "Red Indians") in a prolonged campaign of
genocide, and exploited the labor of millions of slaves who had been
brutally torn from their lives in Africa. Not to mention what is going
on today. Must a Native-American--or indeed anybody at all--recognize
the right of such a state to exist?
But nobody raises the question. The United States does not give a damn
if anybody recognizes its right to exist or not. It does not demand
this from the countries with which it maintains relations.
Why? Because this is a ridiculous demand to start with.
OK, the United States is older than the State of Israel, as well as
bigger and more powerful. But countries that are not super-powers do
not demand this either. India, for example, is not expected to
recognize Pakistan's "right to exist", in spite of the fact that
Pakistan was established at the same time as Israel, and--like Israel--
on an ethnic/religious basis.
* * *
SO WHY is Hamas required to "recognize Israel's right to exist"?
When a state "recognizes" another state, it is a formal recognition,
the acknowledgement of an existing fact. It does not imply approval.
The Soviet Union was not required to recognize the existence of the
USA as a capitalist state. On the contrary, Nikita Khrushchev promised
in 1956 to "bury" it. The US certainly did not dream of recognizing at
any time the right of the Soviet Union to exist as a communist state.
So why is this weird demand addressed to the Palestinians? Why must
they recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State?
I am an Israeli patriot, and I do not feel that I need anybody's
recognition of the right of my state to exist. If somebody is ready to
make peace with me, within borders and on conditions agreed upon in
negotiations, that is quite enough for me. I am prepared to leave the
history, ideology and theology of the matter to the theologians,
ideologues and historians.
Perhaps after 60 years of the existence of Israel, and after we have
become a regional power, we are still so unsure of ourselves that we
crave for constant assurance of our right to exist--and of all people,
from those that we have been oppressing for the last 40 years. Perhaps
it is the mentality of the Ghetto that is still so deeply ingrained in
us.
But the demand addressed now to the Palestinian Unity Government is
far from sincere. It has an ulterior political aim, indeed two: (a) to
convince the international community not to recognize the Palestinian
government that is about to be set up, and (b) to justify the refusal
of the Israeli government to enter into peace negotiations with it.
The British call this a "red herring"--a smelly fish that a fugitive
drags across the path in order to put the pursuing dogs off the trail.
* * *
WHEN I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our
secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some
peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say "no". True, the Zionist
leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the
existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise
of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say "yes"
and "we extend our hand for peace"--and rely on the Arabs to scuttle
the proposal.
That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed
the rules, recognized Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which
stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel
and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day,
those negotiations have not even started. Successive Israeli
governments have prevented it because they were not ready under any
circumstances to fix final borders. (The 2000 Camp David meeting was
not a real negotiation--Ehud Barak convened it without any
preparation, dictated his terms to the Palestinians and broke the
dialogue off when they were refused.)
* * *
After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult.
Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But
Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly
wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any
negotiations with him. The "Unilateral Separation" served this end.
President Bush supported him with both hands.
Well, Sharon suffered his stroke, and Ehud Olmert took his place. And
then something happened that caused great joy in Jerusalem: the
Palestinians elected Hamas.
How wonderful! After all, both the US and Europe have designated Hamas
as a terrorist organization! Hamas is a part of the Shiite Axis of
Evil! (They are not Shiites, but who cares!) Hamas does not recognize
Israel! Hamas is trying to eliminate Mahmoud Abbas, the noble man of
peace! It is clear that with such a gang there is no need, nor would
it make any sense, to conduct negotiations about peace and borders.
And indeed, the US and their European satellites are boycotting the
Palestinian government and starving the Palestinian population. They
have set three conditions for lifting the blockade:
(a) that the Palestinian government and Hamas must recognize the right
of the State of Israel to exist,
(b) they must stop "terrorism", and
(c) they must undertake to fulfill the agreements signed by the PLO.
On the face of it, that makes sense. In reality, none at all. Because
all these conditions are completely one-sided:
a) the Palestinians must recognize the right of Israel to exist
(without defining its borders, of course), but the Israeli government
is not required to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist
at all.
(b) The Palestinians must put an end to "terrorism", but the Israeli
government is not required to stop its military operations in the
Palestinian territories and stop the building of settlements. The
"roadmap" does indeed say so, but that has been completely ignored by
everybody, including the Americans.
(c) The Palestinians must undertake to fulfill the agreements, but no
such undertaking is required from the Israeli government, which has
broken almost all provision of the Oslo agreement. Among others: the
opening of the "safe passages" between Gaza and the West Bank, the
carrying out of the third "redeployment" (withdrawal from Palestinian
territories), the treatment of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one
single territory, etc. etc.
Since Hamas came to power, its leaders have understood the need to
become more flexible. They are very sensitive to the mood of their
people. The Palestinian population is longing for an end to the
occupation and for a life of peace. Therefore, step by step, Hamas has
come nearer to recognition of Israel. Their religious doctrine does
not allow them to declare this publicly (Jewish fundamentalists too
cling to the word of God "To your seed I have given this land") but it
has been doing so indirectly. Little steps, but a big revolution.
Hamas has announced its support for the establishment of a Palestinian
state bounded by the June 1967 borders--meaning: next to Israel and
not in place of Israel. (This week, ex-minister Kadura Fares repeated
that Hamas leader Khaled Mashal has confirmed this.) Hamas has given
Mahmoud Abbas a power of attorney to conduct the negotiations with
Israel and has undertaken in advance to accept any agreement ratified
in a referendum. Abbas, of course, clearly advocates the setting up of
a Palestinian state next to Israel, across the Green Line. There is no
doubt whatsoever that if such an agreement is achieved, the huge
majority of the Palestinian population will vote for it.
In Jerusalem, worry has set in. If this goes on, the world might even
get the impression that Hamas has changed, and then--God forbid--lift
the economic blockade on the Palestinian people.
Now the King of Saudi Arabia comes and disturbs Olmert's plans even
more.
In an impressive event, facing the holiest site of Islam, the king put
an end to the bloody strife between the Palestinian security organs
and prepared the ground for a Palestinian government of national
unity. Hamas undertook to respect the agreements signed by the PLO,
including the Oslo agreement, which is based on the mutual recognition
of the State of Israel and the PLO as representative of the
Palestinian people.
The king has extracted the Palestinian issue from the embrace of Iran,
to which Hamas had turned because it had no alternative, and has
returned Hamas to the lap of the Sunni family. Since Saudi Arabia is
the main ally of the US in the Arab world, the king has put the
Palestinian issue firmly on the table of the Oval Room.
In Jerusalem, near panic broke out. This is the scariest of
nightmares: the fear that the unconditional support of the US and
Europe for Israeli policy will be reconsidered.
The panic had immediate results: "political circles" in Jerusalem
announced that they rejected the Mecca agreement out of hand. Then
second thoughts set in. Shimon Peres, long established master of the
"yes-but-no" method, convinced Olmert that the brazen "no" must be
replaced with a more subtle "no". For this purpose, the red herring
was again taken out of the freezer.
It is not enough that Hamas recognize Israel in practice. Israel
insists that its "right to exist" must also be recognized. Political
recognition does not suffice, ideological recognition is required. By
this logic, one could also demand that Khaled Mashal join the Zionist
organization.
* * *
If one thinks that peace is more important for Israel than expansion
and settlements, one must welcome the change in the position of Hamas--
as expressed in the Mecca agreement--and encourage it to continue
along this road. The king of Saudi Arabia, who has already convinced
the leaders of all Arab countries to recognize Israel in exchange for
the establishment of the state of Palestine across the Green Line,
should be warmly congratulated.
But if one opposes peace because it would fix the final borders of
Israel and allow for no more expansion, one will do everything to
convince the Americans and Europeans to continue with the boycott on
the Palestinian government and the blockade of the Palestinian people.
* * *
The day after tomorrow, Condoleezza Rice will convene a meeting of
Olmert and Abbas in Jerusalem.
The Americans now have a problem. On one side, they need the Saudi
king. Not only does he sit on huge oil reservoirs, but he is also the
center-piece of the "moderate Sunni bloc". If the king tells Bush that
the solution of the Palestinian problem is needed in order to dam the
spread of Iranian influence across the Middle East, his words will
carry a lot of weight. If Bush is planning a military attack on Iran,
as it seems he is, it is important for him to have the united support
of the Sunnis.
On the other side, the pro-Israel lobby--both Jewish and Christian--is
very important for Bush. It is vital for him to be able to count on
the "Christian base" of the Republican Party, which is composed of
fundamentalists who support the extreme Right in Israel, come what
may.
So what is to be done? Nothing. For this nothing, Condi found an apt
diplomatic slogan, taken from up-to-date American slang: "New
Political Horizons".
Clearly, she did not ponder on the meaning of these words. Because the
horizon is the symbol of a goal that will never be reached: the more
you approach it, the more it recedes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02172007.html
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| User: "peace.seeker.27" |
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| Title: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
26 Feb 2007 12:04:56 AM |
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On Feb 25, 3:20 am, wrote:
On 24-Feb-2007, "docremington" <docreming...@safe-mail.net> wrote:
Gary Renzetti wrote:
"jbeck" wrote in message
But the subject line ignores recent history while continuing tired old
dogma from that area that ignores even recent history.
Recent history: Zionists confiscate more West Bank
land to build new settlements. Israel refuses to say
what its borders are because it is not done expanding.
Recent history? Like the ziothugs rape of Lebanon last summer?
Following a fairly recent trend in apology, we may say that, the lady
was not dressed modest enough and invited it.
From the time of Ben-Gurion, Israel has had its eye
on Lebanese territory and water. Israel has used the
slightest pretext to invade Lebanon. Every day,
Israel warplanes violate Lebanese sovereignty by
their overflights.
Sorry, not good enough. More like: the lady had rats in her home
and refused to call an exterminator, forcing her neighbors to get
rid of the vermin after they infested the neighbor's house.
(Okay, yours was snarkier than mine...)
Susan
Maybe if Israel had provided restitution to the 700,000 goyim
who had their property stolen in 1948 by the Zionists, there
never would have been such a problem to begin with?
Susan uses the exact kind of language Hitler used when
describing Jews.
Hitler frequently used words like rats, vermin, and worse
when referring to Jews.
Hitler gave the German Jews only one option, and that
was to leave, before it was too late. In this he was in
sync with the goals of the Zionists, who also wanted the
German Jews to move to Palestine. In fact, the Zionists
were so eager to do so, that they sabotaged the Jewish
economic boycott against the Nazis, which could have
caused the collapse of the Nazi government. The way
this happened was that Jews were allowed to move to
Palestine with their wealth, as long as the wealth was
taken in German goods, which then would be sold. This
was a win-win situation for the Nazis and the Zionists;
the only losers were the six million left behind.
Hardcore, fanatical Zionists are not interested in factual
history, they only want to spread hate and encourage
more carnage in the Middle East. Israel gives the
remaining goyim only one option, and that is to leave,
before it is too late.
It seems as if Israel is becoming more and more like
the Nazis: collective punishments, administrative
detentions (arrest without charge), torture of prisoners
(but only "moderate" torture says the Israeli Supreme
Court) and summary executions, even summary
executions of Israeli citizens (see the Orr Commission
report.)
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| User: "Defendario" |
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| Title: Re: Is Israel Willing to Give up Territorial Expansion for Peace? |
21 Feb 2007 08:27:08 PM |
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TY for posting this important article
peace.seeker.27 wrote:
The Palestinian Accords
Facing Mecca
By URI AVNERY
Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of
America to exist?
Interesting question. The USA was established by Europeans who invaded
a continent that did not belong to them, eradicated most of the
indigenous population (the "Red Indians") in a prolonged campaign of
genocide, and exploited the labor of millions of slaves who had been
brutally torn from their lives in Africa. Not to mention what is going
on today. Must a Native-American--or indeed anybody at all--recognize
the right of such a state to exist?
But nobody raises the question. The United States does not give a damn
if anybody recognizes its right to exist or not. It does not demand
this from the countries with which it maintains relations.
Why? Because this is a ridiculous demand to start with.
OK, the United States is older than the State of Israel, as well as
bigger and more powerful. But countries that are not super-powers do
not demand this either. India, for example, is not expected to
recognize Pakistan's "right to exist", in spite of the fact that
Pakistan was established at the same time as Israel, and--like Israel--
on an ethnic/religious basis.
* * *
SO WHY is Hamas required to "recognize Israel's right to exist"?
When a state "recognizes" another state, it is a formal recognition,
the acknowledgement of an existing fact. It does not imply approval.
The Soviet Union was not required to recognize the existence of the
USA as a capitalist state. On the contrary, Nikita Khrushchev promised
in 1956 to "bury" it. The US certainly did not dream of recognizing at
any time the right of the Soviet Union to exist as a communist state.
So why is this weird demand addressed to the Palestinians? Why must
they recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State?
I am an Israeli patriot, and I do not feel that I need anybody's
recognition of the right of my state to exist. If somebody is ready to
make peace with me, within borders and on conditions agreed upon in
negotiations, that is quite enough for me. I am prepared to leave the
history, ideology and theology of the matter to the theologians,
ideologues and historians.
Perhaps after 60 years of the existence of Israel, and after we have
become a regional power, we are still so unsure of ourselves that we
crave for constant assurance of our right to exist--and of all people,
from those that we have been oppressing for the last 40 years. Perhaps
it is the mentality of the Ghetto that is still so deeply ingrained in
us.
But the demand addressed now to the Palestinian Unity Government is
far from sincere. It has an ulterior political aim, indeed two: (a) to
convince the international community not to recognize the Palestinian
government that is about to be set up, and (b) to justify the refusal
of the Israeli government to enter into peace negotiations with it.
The British call this a "red herring"--a smelly fish that a fugitive
drags across the path in order to put the pursuing dogs off the trail.
* * *
WHEN I was young, Jewish people in Palestine used to talk about our
secret weapon: the Arab refusal. Every time somebody proposed some
peace plan, we relied on the Arab side to say "no". True, the Zionist
leadership was against any compromise that would have frozen the
existing situation and halted the momentum of the Zionist enterprise
of expansion and settlement. But the Zionist leaders used to say "yes"
and "we extend our hand for peace"--and rely on the Arabs to scuttle
the proposal.
That was successful for a hundred years, until Yasser Arafat changed
the rules, recognized Israel and signed the Oslo Accords, which
stipulated that the negotiations for the final borders between Israel
and Palestine must be concluded not later than 1999. To this very day,
those negotiations have not even started. Successive Israeli
governments have prevented it because they were not ready under any
circumstances to fix final borders. (The 2000 Camp David meeting was
not a real negotiation--Ehud Barak convened it without any
preparation, dictated his terms to the Palestinians and broke the
dialogue off when they were refused.)
* * *
After the death of Arafat, the refusal became more and more difficult.
Arafat was always described as a terrorist, cheat and liar. But
Mahmoud Abbas was accepted by everybody as an honest person, who truly
wanted to achieve peace. Yet Ariel Sharon succeeded in avoiding any
negotiations with him. The "Unilateral Separation" served this end.
President Bush supported him with both hands.
Well, Sharon suffered his stroke, and Ehud Olmert took his place. And
then something happened that caused great joy in Jerusalem: the
Palestinians elected Hamas.
How wonderful! After all, both the US and Europe have designated Hamas
as a terrorist organization! Hamas is a part of the Shiite Axis of
Evil! (They are not Shiites, but who cares!) Hamas does not recognize
Israel! Hamas is trying to eliminate Mahmoud Abbas, the noble man of
peace! It is clear that with such a gang there is no need, nor would
it make any sense, to conduct negotiations about peace and borders.
And indeed, the US and their European satellites are boycotting the
Palestinian government and starving the Palestinian population. They
have set three conditions for lifting the blockade:
(a) that the Palestinian government and Hamas must recognize the right
of the State of Israel to exist,
(b) they must stop "terrorism", and
(c) they must undertake to fulfill the agreements signed by the PLO.
On the face of it, that makes sense. In reality, none at all. Because
all these conditions are completely one-sided:
a) the Palestinians must recognize the right of Israel to exist
(without defining its borders, of course), but the Israeli government
is not required to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist
at all.
(b) The Palestinians must put an end to "terrorism", but the Israeli
government is not required to stop its military operations in the
Palestinian territories and stop the building of settlements. The
"roadmap" does indeed say so, but that has been completely ignored by
everybody, including the Americans.
(c) The Palestinians must undertake to fulfill the agreements, but no
such undertaking is required from the Israeli government, which has
broken almost all provision of the Oslo agreement. Among others: the
opening of the "safe passages" between Gaza and the West Bank, the
carrying out of the third "redeployment" (withdrawal from Palestinian
territories), the treatment of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as one
single territory, etc. etc.
Since Hamas came to power, its leaders have understood the need to
become more flexible. They are very sensitive to the mood of their
people. The Palestinian population is longing for an end to the
occupation and for a life of peace. Therefore, step by step, Hamas has
come nearer to recognition of Israel. Their religious doctrine does
not allow them to declare this publicly (Jewish fundamentalists too
cling to the word of God "To your seed I have given this land") but it
has been doing so indirectly. Little steps, but a big revolution.
Hamas has announced its support for the establishment of a Palestinian
state bounded by the June 1967 borders--meaning: next to Israel and
not in place of Israel. (This week, ex-minister Kadura Fares repeated
that Hamas leader Khaled Mashal has confirmed this.) Hamas has given
Mahmoud Abbas a power of attorney to conduct the negotiations with
Israel and has undertaken in advance to accept any agreement ratified
in a referendum. Abbas, of course, clearly advocates the setting up of
a Palestinian state next to Israel, across the Green Line. There is no
doubt whatsoever that if such an agreement is achieved, the huge
majority of the Palestinian population will vote for it.
In Jerusalem, worry has set in. If this goes on, the world might even
get the impression that Hamas has changed, and then--God forbid--lift
the economic blockade on the Palestinian people.
Now the King of Saudi Arabia comes and disturbs Olmert's plans even
more.
In an impressive event, facing the holiest site of Islam, the king put
an end to the bloody strife between the Palestinian security organs
and prepared the ground for a Palestinian government of national
unity. Hamas undertook to respect the agreements signed by the PLO,
including the Oslo agreement, which is based on the mutual recognition
of the State of Israel and the PLO as representative of the
Palestinian people.
The king has extracted the Palestinian issue from the embrace of Iran,
to which Hamas had turned because it had no alternative, and has
returned Hamas to the lap of the Sunni family. Since Saudi Arabia is
the main ally of the US in the Arab world, the king has put the
Palestinian issue firmly on the table of the Oval Room.
In Jerusalem, near panic broke out. This is the scariest of
nightmares: the fear that the unconditional support of the US and
Europe for Israeli policy will be reconsidered.
The panic had immediate results: "political circles" in Jerusalem
announced that they rejected the Mecca agreement out of hand. Then
second thoughts set in. Shimon Peres, long established master of the
"yes-but-no" method, convinced Olmert that the brazen "no" must be
replaced with a more subtle "no". For this purpose, the red herring
was again taken out of the freezer.
It is not enough that Hamas recognize Israel in practice. Israel
insists that its "right to exist" must also be recognized. Political
recognition does not suffice, ideological recognition is required. By
this logic, one could also demand that Khaled Mashal join the Zionist
organization.
* * *
If one thinks that peace is more important for Israel than expansion
and settlements, one must welcome the change in the position of Hamas--
as expressed in the Mecca agreement--and encourage it to continue
along this road. The king of Saudi Arabia, who has already convinced
the leaders of all Arab countries to recognize Israel in exchange for
the establishment of the state of Palestine across the Green Line,
should be warmly congratulated.
But if one opposes peace because it would fix the final borders of
Israel and allow for no more expansion, one will do everything to
convince the Americans and Europeans to continue with the boycott on
the Palestinian government and the blockade of the Palestinian people.
* * *
The day after tomorrow, Condoleezza Rice will convene a meeting of
Olmert and Abbas in Jerusalem.
The Americans now have a problem. On one side, they need the Saudi
king. Not only does he sit on huge oil reservoirs, but he is also the
center-piece of the "moderate Sunni bloc". If the king tells Bush that
the solution of the Palestinian problem is needed in order to dam the
spread of Iranian influence across the Middle East, his words will
carry a lot of weight. If Bush is planning a military attack on Iran,
as it seems he is, it is important for him to have the united support
of the Sunnis.
On the other side, the pro-Israel lobby--both Jewish and Christian--is
very important for Bush. It is vital for him to be able to count on
the "Christian base" of the Republican Party, which is composed of
fundamentalists who support the extreme Right in Israel, come what
may.
So what is to be done? Nothing. For this nothing, Condi found an apt
diplomatic slogan, taken from up-to-date American slang: "New
Political Horizons".
Clearly, she did not ponder on the meaning of these words. Because the
horizon is the symbol of a goal that will never be reached: the more
you approach it, the more it recedes.
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02172007.html
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