"I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "elmer swanson"
Date: 13 Oct 2004 10:48:41 AM
Object: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene
http://www.citypages.com/databank/25/1245/article12550.asp
"I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president
again"
By Andrew Borene as told to Steve Perry (Since leaving the Marine
Corps, Andrew Borene has become a national leader of Veterans for
Kerry)
[After graduated from college and working a couple of years as an
investment officer] he I got bit by the bug to [become] a ground
officer and ...
I ended up as an intelligence officer with the 1st Marine
Expeditionary Force. I was an intelligence collections officer, one of
several, with the 1st Marine Division, which is the infantry unit of
the expeditionary force. Personally, most of my work in intelligence
was done during the buildup to the invasion of Iraq, here in the
United States. I deployed to the Middle East in February of 2003. I
was in Kuwait; I crossed over to Iraq the night the invasion began.
Made it as far north as the north side of Baghdad, drove into Baghdad
the day that Saddam's statue fell down. I basically was there for the
events of the invasion and the fall of the regime.
Just after President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" and the end
of major combat operations, I was sent home because it looked like
things were going to settle down, and my wife was pregnant and had
some pregnancy issues. That was pretty much the end of my combat phase
of the war, but the war was not over for me at that time. When I came
back, I was still serving as an intelligence officer. My job was to
support the troops in Iraq by putting together a lot of reporting from
agencies and assets, and helping in an intelligence capacity through
the computer and by communicating with the troops on the ground. It
was also my job to call families when there were casualties--not
deaths but injuries. That is a story that hasn't really been reported.
You don't see those numbers. But there are now over 10,000 young
Americans whose lives are forever changed by the injuries sustained
there.
When I left Iraq, fully two-thirds of the Iraqi people supported our
occupation of Iraq and wanted us there. Also at that time, the 1st
Marine Division, the unit I'd been part of, did occupation duty in
southern Iraq for four months, in what are now lawless areas where
al-Sadr is. But during that four months, no Marines were killed in
action. That's an important thing to note: What happened in Iraq to
cause the Iraqi people to suddenly swing to--the last poll I saw said
over 80 percent of the Iraqi people want the occupation forces gone
tomorrow. And they see the coalition as actually creating more chaos
and more insecurity in their country. For me personally, I fully
supported President Bush, I fully supported the invasion of Iraq. I
still support the liberation of the Iraqi people, but I came around to
support John Kerry when I realized that this administration has erred
time and time again. Even in the pursuit of their own end of a free
Iraq, they're incompetently carrying out the plan.
I started to get doubts as I drove south from Baghdad into southern
Iraq where we were going to do occupation duty. The Army forces were
coming north at the time. At the time we drove into Baghdad, people
were literally hugging and kissing the Marines. We had Marines wearing
soft-covers instead of helmets. It was a very permissive environment
at the time. I'm not going to say it was safe, but I will say that the
Iraqi people genuinely appreciated us. The joy that we felt doing
that, I've got to think it's only akin to what the WWII vets marching
into Paris felt on the day that they liberated France.
But as we were driving south, there was a Shi'ite pilgrimage going on
at the same time. It hadn't happened in over 20 years because of
Saddam, but they actually got to exercise their religious freedom. As
our Marines were driving south past these Shi'ite people waving and
smiling, the Army was driving north, as I said. I expected to see
construction equipment, or water, or supplies. Instead what I saw were
combat troops--tanks moving up the highway. They had dismounted
infantry along the side pushing Iraqi people off to the edge of the
highway. It was at that time I started to have some doubts about how
the occupation was going to go if we.... There was a window of
opportunity where the Iraqi people genuinely wanted assistance, and we
could have exploited that opportunity and used it to the advantage of
the Iraqi people and of the U.S. forces in Iraq.
Unfortunately, the reconstruction funds were never spent. If you just
look at the record, I think it was $18 billion appropriated by
Congress for reconstruction, of which this administration only spent 5
percent. They spent more than seven times that much money on non-bid
contracts to Halliburton. And this is the kind of stuff that got me
upset. I think the final screw for me was...there's a Marine general
named Anthony Zinni. He wrote a book called Battle Ready with Tom
Clancy, who obviously has a following in conservative circles. I read
that book, and then General Zinni came and gave a lecture to the
Marine officers at Camp Pendleton where I was stationed in which he
made a rather scathing indictment of the incompetence with which the
White House was essentially interfering with commanders on the ground.
The thing that General Zinni was talking about was that the White
House had appointed spokesmen. I don't know if you recall the press
conferences from Baghdad, but there was a guy [from the
administration] at every press conference. They spent more time on the
information campaign, on deceiving the American people about what was
happening in Iraq, than they did on actually trying to win the hearts
and minds of the Iraqi people. That's a problem. General Zinni is one
of the generals who spoke out and said, Hey, you need more troops for
the occupation. And you need better plans for the stability operations
after the invasion.
Because everybody knew the invasion was going to go very well, even
with the limited number of troops. However, any of the generals who
dissented--like Shinseki, he got basically relieved. If you look at
what happened yesterday, where it looks like even Bremer on the day he
got there said he wanted more troops on the ground, and that what we
had was not sufficient to stop the looting. The bottom line is that,
even though the argument about weapons of mass destruction and
terrorist proliferation was fabricated, the underlying argument, the
principle that a free Iraq would be better for the war on terror,
still holds true. But you can't even get that done.
And frankly, myself, I have the opportunity to speak out because I'm
kind of an odd case. I got back from Iraq completely in one piece and
healthy, and was selected to play rugby for the All-Marine Corps rugby
team. And I blew out my knee and had reconstructive surgery and got a
medical discharge from the Marine Corps on August 15. On August 16 I
walked into Kerry headquarters and asked them how I could help out,
because I've followed the issues very closely, and Senator Kerry laid
out a plan long ago to double the size of the special forces, to
increase funding for intelligence personnel and operations, and that's
the kind of thing we need to do. It's just common sense. Where do
terrorists live? How do they get trained? They get trained in little
camps. Or they're a couple of guys in an apartment building. Prior to
9/11, many of them were in Hamburg before the attack happened.
How do you get them? You use special forces, you use intelligence
operations, you find a couple of them and drop some black helicopters
and guys in black pajamas, and you whack them. And that's the kind of
operation we need to launch. This sideshow in Iraq where we send
150,000 teenagers without enough equipment to manage the occupation,
and without the kind of international support we needed for that
battle on the Iraqi front, it really detracted from our ability
globally to stop the spread of terror.
Another issue I had is, in the last 12 months, $3 to $4 billion worth
of heroin has been exported from Afghanistan. So that $3 to $4
billion, that's illicit drugs, that's illicit money. And who does that
money go back to? It goes back to the former Taliban warlords; it goes
back to the people who generated the very first terrorist strike on
America anyway.
And that $3 to $4 billion worth of heroin, how does it get exported?
It gets exported through clandestine shipping networks--the same kind
of clandestine shipping networks that one would need to smuggle
weapons of mass destruction. So the bottom line for me is, America is
less safe because of the way this administration has prosecuted the
war on terror. Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards have laid out real
structural plans. They want to add two active duty divisions to the
armed forces. They want to double special forces. And they want to
rely on the 9/11 Commission, which is something the administration
opposed in the first place, to look into those failings and ask how we
can make America better.
I guess I used to be what they call "Republican in name only." Kind of
a Ramstad Republican, you know--socially liberal and fiscally
conservative. Unfortunately, the issues in this election are just too
big for that.
.

User: "Gumby Kerry"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 11:03:01 AM
Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam and
coming home to protest America.
.
User: "Harvey"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 11:47:46 AM
"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message
news:uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam
and coming home to protest America.

Oh, stfu, you horrible hag. I don't support Kerry but the piece sounds
out some very legitimate points. You are even more useless and annoying
than anyone on these pages, Harry Hope included, and I wouldn't have
even thought that possible before you showed up.
The biggest favor you could do Bush would be to roll over and die...
you're just too stupid to realize that.
.
User: "Harvey"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 04:51:15 PM
"Harvey" <researchermd@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:M_cbd.26301$hj.3716@fed1read07...


"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message
news:uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam
and coming home to protest America.



Oh, stfu, you horrible hag. I don't support Kerry but the piece sounds
out some very legitimate points. You are even more useless and
annoying than anyone on these pages, Harry Hope included, and I
wouldn't have even thought that possible before you showed up.

The biggest favor you could do Bush would be to roll over and die...
you're just too stupid to realize that.

Oops. Thought you were Babs.
Still think you're wrong, mind you, but I was mistaken in thinking you
were that incredibly obnoxious *****. Apologies. She's apparently
"Sinclair Groope" et.al. today.
.

User: "Dharmananda"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 05:02:46 PM
Harvey wrote:


"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message
news:uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam
and coming home to protest America.



Oh, stfu, you horrible hag. I don't support Kerry but the piece sounds
out some very legitimate points. You are even more useless and annoying
than anyone on these pages, Harry Hope included, and I wouldn't have
even thought that possible before you showed up.

The biggest favor you could do Bush would be to roll over and die...
you're just too stupid to realize that.

It starts. The Repugs start attacking each other over who is more of an
orthodox die-hard Repug testosterado than the other. "Horrible hag" has
*potential*. I wouldn't have thought of that in a million years.
--
Triratnam sharanam gaccami
Dharmananda
http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zeam/american-buddhist/news.html
.
User: "Harvey"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 06:09:46 PM
"Dharmananda" <Not@neph.com> wrote in message
news:aChbd.902$jW1.576@trnddc02...

Harvey wrote:


"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message
news:uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in
Vietnam
and coming home to protest America.



Oh, stfu, you horrible hag. I don't support Kerry but the piece
sounds
out some very legitimate points. You are even more useless and
annoying
than anyone on these pages, Harry Hope included, and I wouldn't have
even thought that possible before you showed up.

The biggest favor you could do Bush would be to roll over and die...
you're just too stupid to realize that.



It starts. The Repugs start attacking each other over who is more of
an
orthodox die-hard Repug testosterado than the other. "Horrible hag"
has
*potential*. I wouldn't have thought of that in a million years.

Not everyone belongs to one of your respective Dem-Rep borg cube
collectives. I'm a libertarian.




--
Triratnam sharanam gaccami
Dharmananda

http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zeam/american-buddhist/news.html

.
User: "Dharmananda"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 07:21:04 PM
Harvey wrote:


"Dharmananda" <Not@neph.com> wrote in message
news:aChbd.902$jW1.576@trnddc02...

Harvey wrote:


"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message
news:uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in
Vietnam
and coming home to protest America.



Oh, stfu, you horrible hag. I don't support Kerry but the piece
sounds
out some very legitimate points. You are even more useless and
annoying
than anyone on these pages, Harry Hope included, and I wouldn't have
even thought that possible before you showed up.

The biggest favor you could do Bush would be to roll over and die...
you're just too stupid to realize that.



It starts. The Repugs start attacking each other over who is more of
an
orthodox die-hard Repug testosterado than the other. "Horrible hag"
has
*potential*. I wouldn't have thought of that in a million years.



Not everyone belongs to one of your respective Dem-Rep borg cube
collectives. I'm a libertarian.

That has *potential* too. May the force be with you.
<yoda> Try, you must. </yoda>
--
Triratnam sharanam gaccami
Dharmananda
http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zeam/american-buddhist/news.html
.




User: "elmer swanson"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 14 Oct 2004 01:13:30 PM
"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message news:<uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam and
coming home to protest America.

Ya, that wimp! Charging VC rocket positions, rescuing Green Berets.
Why didn't he stay with his obligations in Vietnam like Dubya!
.
User: "Diogenes"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 14 Oct 2004 02:31:40 PM
"elmer swanson" <elmer_swanson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fade24c.0410141013.47e783da@posting.google.com...

"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message

news:<uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam and
coming home to protest America.


Ya, that wimp! Charging VC rocket positions, rescuing Green Berets.
Why didn't he stay with his obligations in Vietnam like Dubya!

Only way that ticket puncher charged VC rocket positions was with his Visa
card.
.
User: "elmer swanson"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 15 Oct 2004 01:09:20 PM
"Diogenes" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<10mtkqdanu7cu95@corp.supernews.com>...

"elmer swanson" <elmer_swanson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fade24c.0410141013.47e783da@posting.google.com...

"Gumby Kerry" <tkohio@Aol.com> wrote in message

news:<uaqdnTZfg8gpzPDcRVn-tQ@giganews.com>...

Sounds like Johnny boy Kerry running from his obligations in Vietnam and
coming home to protest America.


Ya, that wimp! Charging VC rocket positions, rescuing Green Berets.
Why didn't he stay with his obligations in Vietnam like Dubya!


Only way that ticket puncher charged VC rocket positions was with his Visa
card.

Slander.
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231#
**** ***** *** **** ****QUOTE ON **** ***** *** ****
Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record
Ad features vets who claim Kerry "lied" to get Vietnam medals. But
other witnesses disagree -- and so do Navy records.
August 6, 2004; Modified: August 22, 2004
Summary
A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began
running an attack ad Aug. 5 in which former Swift Boat veterans claim
Kerry lied to get one of his two decorations for bravery and two of
his three purple hearts.
But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former
crewmen, and by Navy records.
One of the accusers says he was on another boat "a few yards" away
during the incident which won Kerry the Bronze Star, but the former
Army lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water that day backs
Kerry's account. In an Aug. 10 opinion piece in the conservative Wall
Street Journal , Rassmann (a Republican himself) wrote that the ad was
"launched by people without decency" who are "lying" and "should hang
their heads in shame."
And on Aug. 19, Navy records came to light also contradicting the
accusers. One of the veterans who says Kerry wasn't under fire was
himself awarded a Bronze Star for aiding others "in the face of enemy
fire" during the same incident.
Analysis
"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is a group formed March 23 after Kerry
wrapped up the Democratic nomination. It held a news conference May 4
denigrating Kerry's military record and his later anti-war
pronouncements during the 1970's. The group began running an attack ad
Aug. 5 in which 13 veterans variously say Kerry is "not being honest"
and "is lying about his record."
Where the Money Comes From
Although the word "Republican" does not appear in the ad, the group's
financing is highly partisan. The source of the Swift Boat group's
money wasn't known when it first surfaced, but a report filed July 15
with the Internal Revenue Services now shows its initial funding came
mainly from a Houston home builder, Bob R. Perry, who has also given
millions to the Republican party and Republican candidates, mostly in
Texas, including President Bush and Republican Majority Leader Tom
DeLay, whose district is near Houston
Perry gave $100,000 of the $158,750 received by the Swift Boat group
through the end of June, according to its disclosure report .
Perry and his wife Doylene also gave more than $3 million to Texas
Republicans during the 2002 elections, according to a database
maintained by the Institute on Money in State Politics . The Perrys
also were among the largest Republican donors in neighboring
Louisiana, where they gave $200,000, and New Mexico, where they gave
$183,000, according to the database
At the federal level the Perrys have given $359,825 since 1999,
including $6,000 to Bush's campaigns and $27,325 to DeLay and his
political action committee, Americans for a Republican Majority,
according to a database maintained by the Center for Responsive
Politics .
The Silver Star
Several of those who appear in the ad have signed brief affidavits,
and we have posted some of them in the "supporting documents" section
to the right for our visitors to evaluate for themselves.
One of those affidavits, signed by George Elliott, quickly became
controversial. Elliott is the retired Navy captain who had recommended
Kerry for his highest decoration for valor, the Silver Star, which was
awarded for events of Feb. 28, 1969, when Kerry beached his boat in
the face of an enemy ambush and then pursued and killed an enemy
soldier on the shore.
Elliott, who had been Kerry's commanding officer, was quoted by the
Boston Globe Aug 6 as saying he had made a "terrible mistake" in
signing the affidavit against Kerry, in which Elliott suggested Kerry
hadn't told him the truth about how he killed the enemy soldier. Later
Elliott signed a second affidavit saying he still stands by the words
in the TV ad. But Elliott also made what he called an "immaterial
clarification" - saying he has no first-hand information that Kerry
was less than forthright about what he did to win the Silver Star.
What Elliott said in the ad is that Kerry "has not been honest about
what happened in Viet Nam." In his original affidavit Elliott said
Kerry had not been "forthright" in Vietnam. The only example he
offered of Kerry not being "honest" or "forthright" was this: "For
example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that
he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.
In the Globe story, Elliott is quoted as saying it was a "terrible
mistake" to sign that statement:
George Elliott (Globe account): It was a terrible mistake probably for
me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble
here. . . . I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed
it back. That was a mistake.
In his second affidavit, however, Elliott downgraded that "terrible
mistake" to an "immaterial clarification." He said in the second
affidavit:
Elliott (second affidavit): I do not claim to have personal knowledge
as to how Kerry shot the wounded, fleeing Viet Cong.
Elliott also said he now believes Kerry shot the man in the back,
based on other accounts including a book in which Kerry is quoted as
saying of the soldier, "He was running away with a live B-40 (rocket
launcher) and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it." (The
book quoted by Elliott is John F. Kerry, The Complete Biography, By
The Reporters Who Know Him Best.)
Elliott also says in that second affidavit, "Had I known the facts, I
would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply
pursuing and dispatching a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong." That
statement is misleading, however. It mischaracterizes the actual basis
on which Kerry received his decoration.
The official citations show Kerry was not awarded the Silver Star "for
simply pursuing and dispatching" the Viet Cong. In fact, the killing
is not even mentioned in two of the three versions of the official
citation (see "supporting documents" at right.) The citations - based
on what Elliott wrote up at the time - dwell mostly on Kerry's
decision to attack rather than flee from two ambushes, including one
in which he led a landing party.
The longest of the citations, signed by Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt,
commander of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam, describes Kerry as killing
a fleeing Viet Cong with a loaded rocket launcher. It says that as
Kerry beached his boat to attack his second set of ambushers, "an
enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol
Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation, Lieutenant (junior grade)
KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hooch, and killed him,
capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber."
Two other citations omit any mention of the killing. One was signed by
Admiral John J. Hyland, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, and
the other was signed by the Secretary of the Navy. Both those
citations say Kerry attacked his first set of ambushers and that
"this daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded
in routing a score of enemy soldiers." Later, 800 yards away, Kerry's
boat encountered a second ambush and a B-40 rocket exploded "close
aboard" Kerry's boat. "With utter disregard for his own safety, and
the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his
boat only ten feet away from the VC rocket position, and personally
led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy." In these
citations there is no mention of enemy casualties at all. Kerry was
cited for "extraordinary daring and personal courage . . . in
attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire."
Elliott had previously defended Kerry on that score when his record
was questioned during his 1996 Senate campaign. At that time Elliott
came to Boston and said Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver
Star. And as recently as June, 2003, Elliott called Kerry's Silver
Star "well deserved" and his action "courageous" for beaching his boat
in the face of an ambush:
Elliott (Boston Globe, June 2003): I ended up writing it up for a
Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second
thoughts at all about that. . . . (It) was pretty courageous to turn
into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three
people there.
Elliott now feels differently, and says he has come to believe Kerry
didn't deserve his second award for valor, either, based only on what
the other anti-Kerry veterans have told him. He told the Globe Aug. 6:
Elliott: I have chosen to believe the other men. I absolutely do not
know first hand.
On Aug. 22 an officer who was present supported Kerry's version,
breaking a 35-year silence. William B. Rood commanded another Swift
Boat during the same operation and was awarded the Bronze Star himself
for his role in attacking the Viet Cong ambushers. He said Kerry and
he went ashore at the same time after being attacked by several Viet
Cong onshore.
Rood said he was the only other officer present. Rood is now an editor
on the metropolitan desk of the Chicago Tribune, which published his
first-person account of the incident in its Sunday edition. Rood said
he had refused all interviews about Kerry's war record, even from
reporters for his own paper, until motivated to speak up because
Kerry's critics are telling "stories I know to be untrue" and "their
version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."
Rood described two Viet Cong ambushes, both of them routed using a
tactic devised by Kerry who was in tactical command of a three-boat
operation. At the second ambush only the Rood and Kerry boats were
attacked.
Rood: Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and
chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from
the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being
wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty
officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events,
recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go
through experiences like that frequently differ.
With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site,
Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to
search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I
heard gunfire nearby.
Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the
man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40
rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the
operation.
Rood disputed an account of the incident given by John O'Neill in his
book "Unfit for Command," which describes the man Kerry chased as a
"teenager" in a "loincloth." Rood said, "I have no idea how old the
gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he
was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore."

The Bronze Star
The most serious allegation in the ad is that Kerry received both the
Bronze Star, his second-highest decoration, and his third purple
heart, which allowed him to be sent home early, under false pretenses.
But that account is flatly contradicted by Jim Rassmann, the former
Army Lieutenant whom Kerry rescued that day.
Van O'Dell, a former Navy enlisted man who says he was the gunner on
another Swift Boat, states in his affidavit that he was "a few yards
away" from Kerry's boat on March 13, 1969 when Kerry pulled Rassman
from the water. According to the official medal citations, Kerry's
boat was under enemy fire at the time, and Kerry had been wounded when
an enemy mine exploded near his own boat. O'Dell insists "there was no
fire" at the time, adding: "I did not hear any shots, nor did any
hostile fire hit any boats" other than his own, PCF-3.
Others in the ad back up that account. Jack Chenoweth, who was a
Lieutenant (junior grade) commanding PCF-3, said Kerry's boat "fled
the scene" after a mine blast disabled PCF-3, and returned only later
"when it was apparent that there was no return fire." And Larry
Thurlow, who says he commanded a third Swift Boat that day, says
"Kerry fled while we stayed to fight," and returned only later "after
no return fire occurred."
A serious discrepancy in the account of Kerry's accusers came to light
Aug. 19, when the Washington Post reported that Navy records describe
Thurlow himself as dodging enemy bullets during the same incident, for
which Thurlow also was awarded the Bronze Star.
Thurlow's citation - which the Post said it obtained under the Freedom
of Information Act - says that "all units began receiving enemy small
arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks" after the first
explosion. The citation describes Thurlow as leaping aboard the
damaged PCF-3 and rendering aid "while still under enemy fire," and
adds: "His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire . . . were
in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval
Service."
A separate document that recommended Thurlow for that decoration
states that all Thurlow's actions "took place under constant enemy
small arms fire." It was signed by Elliott.
The Post quoted Thurlow as saying he had lost his citation years
earlier and had been under the impression that he received the award
for aiding the damaged boat and its crew, and that his own award would
be "fraudulent" if based on his facing enemy fire. The Post reported
that, after hearing the citation read to him, Thurlow said: "It's like
a Hollywood presentation here, which wasn't the case. . . My personal
feeling was always that I got the award for coming to the rescue of
the boat that was mined. This casts doubt on anybody's awards. It is
sickening and disgusting. . . . I am here to state that we weren't
under fire."
None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served
on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of
Kerry and those who served under him.
Jim Rassmann was the Army Special Forces lieutenant whom Kerry plucked
from the water. Rassmann has said all along that he was under sniper
fire from both banks of the river when Kerry, wounded, helped him
aboard. Rassmann is featured in an earlier Kerry ad, in fact, (see
script at left) saying "he (Kerry) risked his life to save mine."
On Aug. 10, Rassmann wrote a vivid account of the rescue in the Wall
Street Journal that contradicts the Kerry accusers. Rassmann said that
after the first explosion that disabled PCF-3:
Rassmann: Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river and a
second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off
John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that
the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river
and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.
When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking
fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire I repeatedly swam
under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it
to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The
odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it
out of the river, I thought I thought I'd be captured and executed.
Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del
Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the
water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of
the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it
over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a
perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me
off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire
directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.
Rassmann said he recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for that
action, and learned only later that the Bronze Star had been awarded
instead. "To this day I still believe he deserved the Silver Star for
his courage," he wrote. Rassmann described himself as a retired
lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. "I am a
Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for
Republicans," Rassmann said. But he said Kerry "will be a great
commander in chief."
"This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency,"
Rassmann said. "Their new charges are false; their stories are
fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in
Vietnam."
On Aug. 22 the Washington Post quoted a new eyewitness in support of
Kerry's version. The Post said it had independently contacted Wayne D.
Langhofer, who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat directly
behind Kerry's, and that Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the
"clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47 assault rifles.
Langhofer: There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both
sides of the river.
The Third Purple Heart.....
[.........]
McCain Speaks Up
Sen. John McCain -- who has publicly endorsed Bush and even appealed
for donations to the President's campaign -- came to Kerry's defense
on this. McCain didn't witness the events in question, of course. But
he told the Associated Press in an August 5 interview:
McCain : I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is none
of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his
crewmates have testified to his courage under fire. I think John
Kerry served honorably in Vietnam.
Copyright 2004 Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of
Pennsylvania
**** ***** *** **** ****QUOTE OFF **** ***** *** ****
.




User: "D. Gordon"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for thispres... 13 Oct 2004 06:36:33 PM
Borene, no matter what you honestly experienced in Iraq, neither you nor
anyone else knows anywhere close to enough about the situation out
there. There arte trillions of aspects to this war. No one knows
anywhere enough to formulate opinions.
.
User: "Dharmananda"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this pres... 13 Oct 2004 07:31:40 PM
D. Gordon wrote:

Borene, no matter what you honestly experienced in Iraq, neither you nor
anyone else knows anywhere close to enough about the situation out
there. There arte trillions of aspects to this war. No one knows
anywhere enough to formulate opinions.

Hello? What IS your major dysfunction, please?
We're having an election campaign here. If you're not willing to have an
opinion, please eat guano and die.
Oh, and hey, before doing that, you might also go back to your planet of
origin, and tell the rest of your people that we don't need them here.
--
Triratnam sharanam gaccami
Dharmananda
http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zeam/american-buddhist/news.html
.


User: "Dharmananda"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 05:07:52 PM
elmer swanson wrote:


And frankly, myself, I have the opportunity to speak out because I'm
kind of an odd case. I got back from Iraq completely in one piece and
healthy, and was selected to play rugby for the All-Marine Corps rugby
team. And I blew out my knee and had reconstructive surgery and got a
medical discharge from the Marine Corps on August 15. On August 16 I
walked into Kerry headquarters and asked them how I could help out,
because I've followed the issues very closely, and Senator Kerry laid
out a plan long ago to double the size of the special forces, to
increase funding for intelligence personnel and operations, and that's
the kind of thing we need to do. It's just common sense. Where do
terrorists live? How do they get trained? They get trained in little
camps. Or they're a couple of guys in an apartment building. Prior to
9/11, many of them were in Hamburg before the attack happened.

How do you get them? You use special forces, you use intelligence
operations, you find a couple of them and drop some black helicopters
and guys in black pajamas, and you whack them. And that's the kind of
operation we need to launch. This sideshow in Iraq where we send
150,000 teenagers without enough equipment to manage the occupation,
and without the kind of international support we needed for that
battle on the Iraqi front, it really detracted from our ability
globally to stop the spread of terror.

Well Struck, American Patriot.
--
Triratnam sharanam gaccami
Dharmananda
http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zeam/american-buddhist/news.html
.

User: "GW *AWOL* Chimpzilla"

Title: Re: "I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president again." By Andrew Borene 13 Oct 2004 12:13:15 PM
elmer swanson wrote:

http://www.citypages.com/databank/25/1245/article12550.asp


"I've served in Iraq, and that's why I can't vote for this president
again"

By Andrew Borene as told to Steve Perry (Since leaving the Marine
Corps, Andrew Borene has become a national leader of Veterans for
Kerry)

Not true. Our patriotic soldiers are all Republicans and they support the
president.


[After graduated from college and working a couple of years as an
investment officer] he I got bit by the bug to [become] a ground
officer and ...
I ended up as an intelligence officer with the 1st Marine
Expeditionary Force. I was an intelligence collections officer, one of
several, with the 1st Marine Division, which is the infantry unit of
the expeditionary force. Personally, most of my work in intelligence
was done during the buildup to the invasion of Iraq, here in the
United States. I deployed to the Middle East in February of 2003. I
was in Kuwait; I crossed over to Iraq the night the invasion began.
Made it as far north as the north side of Baghdad, drove into Baghdad
the day that Saddam's statue fell down. I basically was there for the
events of the invasion and the fall of the regime.

Just after President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" and the end
of major combat operations, I was sent home because it looked like
things were going to settle down, and my wife was pregnant and had
some pregnancy issues. That was pretty much the end of my combat phase
of the war, but the war was not over for me at that time. When I came
back, I was still serving as an intelligence officer. My job was to
support the troops in Iraq by putting together a lot of reporting from
agencies and assets, and helping in an intelligence capacity through
the computer and by communicating with the troops on the ground. It
was also my job to call families when there were casualties--not
deaths but injuries. That is a story that hasn't really been reported.
You don't see those numbers. But there are now over 10,000 young
Americans whose lives are forever changed by the injuries sustained
there.

When I left Iraq, fully two-thirds of the Iraqi people supported our
occupation of Iraq and wanted us there. Also at that time, the 1st
Marine Division, the unit I'd been part of, did occupation duty in
southern Iraq for four months, in what are now lawless areas where
al-Sadr is. But during that four months, no Marines were killed in
action. That's an important thing to note: What happened in Iraq to
cause the Iraqi people to suddenly swing to--the last poll I saw said
over 80 percent of the Iraqi people want the occupation forces gone
tomorrow. And they see the coalition as actually creating more chaos
and more insecurity in their country. For me personally, I fully
supported President Bush, I fully supported the invasion of Iraq. I
still support the liberation of the Iraqi people, but I came around to
support John Kerry when I realized that this administration has erred
time and time again. Even in the pursuit of their own end of a free
Iraq, they're incompetently carrying out the plan.

I started to get doubts as I drove south from Baghdad into southern
Iraq where we were going to do occupation duty. The Army forces were
coming north at the time. At the time we drove into Baghdad, people
were literally hugging and kissing the Marines. We had Marines wearing
soft-covers instead of helmets. It was a very permissive environment
at the time. I'm not going to say it was safe, but I will say that the
Iraqi people genuinely appreciated us. The joy that we felt doing
that, I've got to think it's only akin to what the WWII vets marching
into Paris felt on the day that they liberated France.

But as we were driving south, there was a Shi'ite pilgrimage going on
at the same time. It hadn't happened in over 20 years because of
Saddam, but they actually got to exercise their religious freedom. As
our Marines were driving south past these Shi'ite people waving and
smiling, the Army was driving north, as I said. I expected to see
construction equipment, or water, or supplies. Instead what I saw were
combat troops--tanks moving up the highway. They had dismounted
infantry along the side pushing Iraqi people off to the edge of the
highway. It was at that time I started to have some doubts about how
the occupation was going to go if we.... There was a window of
opportunity where the Iraqi people genuinely wanted assistance, and we
could have exploited that opportunity and used it to the advantage of
the Iraqi people and of the U.S. forces in Iraq.

Unfortunately, the reconstruction funds were never spent. If you just
look at the record, I think it was $18 billion appropriated by
Congress for reconstruction, of which this administration only spent 5
percent. They spent more than seven times that much money on non-bid
contracts to Halliburton. And this is the kind of stuff that got me
upset. I think the final screw for me was...there's a Marine general
named Anthony Zinni. He wrote a book called Battle Ready with Tom
Clancy, who obviously has a following in conservative circles. I read
that book, and then General Zinni came and gave a lecture to the
Marine officers at Camp Pendleton where I was stationed in which he
made a rather scathing indictment of the incompetence with which the
White House was essentially interfering with commanders on the ground.

The thing that General Zinni was talking about was that the White
House had appointed spokesmen. I don't know if you recall the press
conferences from Baghdad, but there was a guy [from the
administration] at every press conference. They spent more time on the
information campaign, on deceiving the American people about what was
happening in Iraq, than they did on actually trying to win the hearts
and minds of the Iraqi people. That's a problem. General Zinni is one
of the generals who spoke out and said, Hey, you need more troops for
the occupation. And you need better plans for the stability operations
after the invasion.

Because everybody knew the invasion was going to go very well, even
with the limited number of troops. However, any of the generals who
dissented--like Shinseki, he got basically relieved. If you look at
what happened yesterday, where it looks like even Bremer on the day he
got there said he wanted more troops on the ground, and that what we
had was not sufficient to stop the looting. The bottom line is that,
even though the argument about weapons of mass destruction and
terrorist proliferation was fabricated, the underlying argument, the
principle that a free Iraq would be better for the war on terror,
still holds true. But you can't even get that done.

And frankly, myself, I have the opportunity to speak out because I'm
kind of an odd case. I got back from Iraq completely in one piece and
healthy, and was selected to play rugby for the All-Marine Corps rugby
team. And I blew out my knee and had reconstructive surgery and got a
medical discharge from the Marine Corps on August 15. On August 16 I
walked into Kerry headquarters and asked them how I could help out,
because I've followed the issues very closely, and Senator Kerry laid
out a plan long ago to double the size of the special forces, to
increase funding for intelligence personnel and operations, and that's
the kind of thing we need to do. It's just common sense. Where do
terrorists live? How do they get trained? They get trained in little
camps. Or they're a couple of guys in an apartment building. Prior to
9/11, many of them were in Hamburg before the attack happened.

How do you get them? You use special forces, you use intelligence
operations, you find a couple of them and drop some black helicopters
and guys in black pajamas, and you whack them. And that's the kind of
operation we need to launch. This sideshow in Iraq where we send
150,000 teenagers without enough equipment to manage the occupation,
and without the kind of international support we needed for that
battle on the Iraqi front, it really detracted from our ability
globally to stop the spread of terror.

Another issue I had is, in the last 12 months, $3 to $4 billion worth
of heroin has been exported from Afghanistan. So that $3 to $4
billion, that's illicit drugs, that's illicit money. And who does that
money go back to? It goes back to the former Taliban warlords; it goes
back to the people who generated the very first terrorist strike on
America anyway.

And that $3 to $4 billion worth of heroin, how does it get exported?
It gets exported through clandestine shipping networks--the same kind
of clandestine shipping networks that one would need to smuggle
weapons of mass destruction. So the bottom line for me is, America is
less safe because of the way this administration has prosecuted the
war on terror. Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards have laid out real
structural plans. They want to add two active duty divisions to the
armed forces. They want to double special forces. And they want to
rely on the 9/11 Commission, which is something the administration
opposed in the first place, to look into those failings and ask how we
can make America better.

I guess I used to be what they call "Republican in name only." Kind of
a Ramstad Republican, you know--socially liberal and fiscally
conservative. Unfortunately, the issues in this election are just too
big for that.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas -- that says, fool
me once, shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/tdntb-bushwack2.mp3
.


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