| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Harry Hope" |
| Date: |
19 Oct 2006 12:17:27 PM |
| Object: |
Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
From The Associated Press, 10/19/06:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6158107,00.html
Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened
By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
The Washington Post asked for two years of White House visitor logs in
June but the Secret Service refused to process the request.
Government attorneys called it ``a fishing expedition into the most
sensitive details of the vice presidency.''
U.S. District Judge Ricardo M. Urbina ruled Wednesday that, by the end
of next week, the Secret Service must produce the records or at least
identity them and justify why they are being withheld.
The newspaper sought logs for anyone visiting Cheney, his legal
counsel, chief spokesman and other top aides and advisers.
The Secret Service had no comment on the ruling Thursday.
In court documents, government attorneys said releasing the documents
would infringe on Cheney's ability to seek advice.
``This case is about protecting the effective functioning of the vice
presidency under the Constitution,'' attorneys wrote.
A lawsuit over similar records revealed last month that Republican
activists Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed - key figures in the Jack
Abramoff lobbying scandal - landed more than 100 meetings inside the
Bush White House.
______________________________________________________
Harry
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| User: "One Voice Of Dissent" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 12:47:49 PM |
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"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:u5dfj2pfmsljbaagccmqaum8gmd2q3c6is@4ax.com...
From The Associated Press, 10/19/06:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6158107,00.html
Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened
By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
The Washington Post asked for two years of White House visitor logs in
June but the Secret Service refused to process the request.
Government attorneys called it ``a fishing expedition into the most
sensitive details of the vice presidency.''
U.S. District Judge Ricardo M. Urbina ruled Wednesday that, by the end
of next week, the Secret Service must produce the records or at least
identity them and justify why they are being withheld.
The newspaper sought logs for anyone visiting Cheney, his legal
counsel, chief spokesman and other top aides and advisers.
The Secret Service had no comment on the ruling Thursday.
In court documents, government attorneys said releasing the documents
would infringe on Cheney's ability to seek advice.
``This case is about protecting the effective functioning of the vice
presidency under the Constitution,'' attorneys wrote.
A lawsuit over similar records revealed last month that Republican
activists Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed - key figures in the Jack
Abramoff lobbying scandal - landed more than 100 meetings inside the
Bush White House.
______________________________________________________
Harry
Another October surprise dropped right into the lap of the Vice Chancellor.
Man, right after he told that big lie about how good things in Iraq are
going...a little instant karma anyone?
I love the smell of burning republican anytime of the day.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
20 Oct 2006 05:16:32 AM |
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"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:u5dfj2pfmsljbaagccmqaum8gmd2q3c6is@4ax.com...
From The Associated Press, 10/19/06:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6158107,00.html
Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened
By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
The Washington Post asked for two years of White House visitor logs in
June but the Secret Service refused to process the request.
Government attorneys called it ``a fishing expedition into the most
sensitive details of the vice presidency.''
Asopposed to the government fishing expedition into the personal and private
lives of Americans?
U.S. District Judge Ricardo M. Urbina ruled Wednesday that, by the end
of next week, the Secret Service must produce the records or at least
identity them and justify why they are being withheld.
The newspaper sought logs for anyone visiting Cheney, his legal
counsel, chief spokesman and other top aides and advisers.
The Secret Service had no comment on the ruling Thursday.
In court documents, government attorneys said releasing the documents
would infringe on Cheney's ability to seek advice.
``This case is about protecting the effective functioning of the vice
presidency under the Constitution,'' attorneys wrote.
A lawsuit over similar records revealed last month that Republican
activists Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed - key figures in the Jack
Abramoff lobbying scandal - landed more than 100 meetings inside the
Bush White House.
______________________________________________________
Harry
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 02:00:38 PM |
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Harry Hope wrote:
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
And if they send marshals to the White House to force the issue, what
would stop the secret service from shooting them dead?
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| User: "One Voice Of Dissent" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 05:38:05 PM |
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"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:rXPZg.1485$rS.1437@fed1read05...
Harry Hope wrote:
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
And if they send marshals to the White House to force the issue, what
would stop the secret service from shooting them dead?
Judges factor in executive privelidge, but they are on record for their
demand. One day, bush & cheny will not be able to invoke executive
priviledge. Who knows what the future holds.
Justice marches on.
And before you ask me about a statute of limitations on such an order...look
it up yourself..:-)
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| User: "Lloyd King" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 04:20:57 PM |
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"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:rXPZg.1485$rS.1437@fed1read05...
Harry Hope wrote:
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
And if they send marshals to the White House to force the issue, what
would stop the secret service from shooting them dead?
Basic human decency?
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 04:32:47 PM |
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Lloyd King wrote:
Basic human decency?
You mean from the same people who can kill 650,000 people and still
sleep at night?
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| User: "Seethis Pass" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 02:26:28 PM |
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:00:38 -0700, jmcgill
<jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote:
Harry Hope wrote:
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
Why, Because they are upright law abiding public servants, of course
( snark )
And if they send marshals to the White House to force the issue, what
would stop the secret service from shooting them dead?
Send them anyway most of the world would be glad to watch and see.
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| User: "Rich Travsky" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 09:47:06 PM |
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jmcgill wrote:
Harry Hope wrote:
A federal judge has ordered the Bush administration to release
information about who visited Vice President ***** Cheney's office and
personal residence, an order that could spark a late election season
debate over lobbyists' White House access.
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
Duh, because there's no legal basis to not comply?
And if they send marshals to the White House to force the issue, what
would stop the secret service from shooting them dead?
The law? DUH?
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
19 Oct 2006 11:36:21 PM |
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Rich Travsky wrote:
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
Duh, because there's no legal basis to not comply?
And what legal consequences do you imagine could be applied?
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
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| User: "Kevin Cunningham" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
20 Oct 2006 08:48:06 AM |
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"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:9nYZg.1516$rS.1431@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
Duh, because there's no legal basis to not comply?
And what legal consequences do you imagine could be applied?
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls service and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
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| User: "Rich Travsky" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
21 Oct 2006 10:42:43 PM |
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Kevin Cunningham wrote:
"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:9nYZg.1516$rS.1431@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Why in the world would they comply with any such order?
Duh, because there's no legal basis to not comply?
And what legal consequences do you imagine could be applied?
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls service and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
RT
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
21 Oct 2006 11:02:15 PM |
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Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls service and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
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| User: "Larry Hewitt" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 12:42:37 AM |
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"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:b3C_g.1602$rS.723@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize
the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls service
and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
Yep.
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Larry
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| User: "One Voice Of Dissent" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 01:28:01 AM |
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"Larry Hewitt" <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:ehf0ch$tro$1@news04.infoave.net...
"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:b3C_g.1602$rS.723@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize
the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls
service
and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
Yep.
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Larry
He's an antagonist, a blowhard and a fool.
If you answer a question for him, he'll ask you 3 more.
He's to lazy to look up anything on his own.
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 01:55:31 AM |
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One Voice Of Dissent wrote:
"Larry Hewitt" <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:ehf0ch$tro$1@news04.infoave.net...
"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:b3C_g.1602$rS.723@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize
the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls
service
and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
Yep.
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Larry
He's an antagonist, a blowhard and a fool.
If you answer a question for him, he'll ask you 3 more.
He's to lazy to look up anything on his own.
What in the hell are you talking about?
It is not at all clear that the Bush White House would comply with a
judicial order, particularly not one from a lower court, to release
whatever documents some judge wants to ask for. It may be that an act
of Congress is required in order to do that. Even then, there is
executive privilege not to mention wartime powers that provide broad
protections for the security of the offices of the President and Vice
President.
It may be one thing to request discovery during a Congressional
investigation and/or impeachment proceedings, but it is another thing
entirely to demand documents when the legal basis for making such
demands has never been established. The judge can demand and order
whatever he would like, but the President is *not* obligated to release
whatever documents a judge might request, and in fact, has higher
responsibilities to refuse to release any information he would care to
withhold.
Now, your position is that a judge, a federal judge from a lower court, can
subpoena documents from the White House, and can send Marshalls to the
White
House expecting them to return with file boxes, and presumably with
anyone who
got in their way in handcuffs. But when they arrive at the White House
and are turned away ("Mr. Bush is not taking visitors today, please make
an appointment.") what do you think they are going to do? Show their
search warrant? FOR THE WHITE HOUSE? No judge has the authority to
issue a search warrant for the White House!
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| User: "Tag Heuer" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 10:30:40 AM |
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:55:31 -0700, jmcgill
<jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote:
One Voice Of Dissent wrote:
"Larry Hewitt" <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote in message news:ehf0ch$tro$1@news04.infoave.net...
"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message news:b3C_g.1602$rS.723@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize
the documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls
service and they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
Yep.
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Larry
He's an antagonist, a blowhard and a fool.
If you answer a question for him, he'll ask you 3 more.
He's to lazy to look up anything on his own.
What in the hell are you talking about?
If I may.
It is not at all clear that the Bush White House would comply with a
judicial order, particularly not one from a lower court, to release
whatever documents some judge wants to ask for. It may be that an act
of Congress is required in order to do that. Even then, there is
executive privilege not to mention wartime powers that provide broad
protections for the security of the offices of the President and Vice
President.
As in United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683 (1974)? Sure. For now it
is from the lower court, however as Bush once said, "we got plenty of
capability of dealing with justice."
It may be one thing to request discovery during a Congressional
investigation and/or impeachment proceedings, but it is another thing
entirely to demand documents when the legal basis for making such
demands has never been established. The judge can demand and order
whatever he would like, but the President is *not* obligated to release
whatever documents a judge might request, and in fact, has higher
responsibilities to refuse to release any information he would care to
withhold.
Cheney is not the President. Furthermore, we are talking about just
who he was consulting when he was developing the administration’s
energy policy. Why is that a "secret?" What could possibly harm this
nation by knowing who attended those 'closed door' meetings over a
matter that directly involves The People of the United States of
America? This is crazy. For this is the same administration that
appears to not have noticed the "S" next to Valerie Plame's name.
Now, your position is that a judge, a federal judge from a lower court, can
subpoena documents from the White House, and can send Marshalls to the
White House expecting them to return with file boxes, and presumably with
anyone who got in their way in handcuffs. But when they arrive at the White House
and are turned away ("Mr. Bush is not taking visitors today, please make
an appointment.") what do you think they are going to do? Show their
search warrant? FOR THE WHITE HOUSE? No judge has the authority to
issue a search warrant for the White House!
Perhaps not a "search warrant," but a subpeona would suffice. What I
do find fascinating is that counsel for the Whitehouse says, "This
case is about protecting the effective functioning of the vice
presidency under the Constitution." Again, we are talking about
visitor logs for christsakes, and with specific regard as to who it
was that he met with in the development of this government's energy
policy. But wouldn't it be funny if Jeff Gannon appeared on that
list. "Work of the people." Sure . . . But that's neither here nor
there.
However, I thought this matter was put to rest a couple of years ago
and that this Whitehouse filled with miscreants got away, however it
appears to ramping up. But just remember this is the same judge that
presided over the Randy "Duck" Cunningham scandal - And as the saying
goes, "where there is smoke . . ." and there is a lot of it coming out
of the Whitehouse lately, there may be legal grounds, based on juris
prudence for a higher court to rule upon, and intervene.
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/atom.xml
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| User: "Rich Travsky" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
24 Oct 2006 08:48:21 PM |
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jmcgill wrote:
One Voice Of Dissent wrote:
"Larry Hewitt" <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:ehf0ch$tro$1@news04.infoave.net...
"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:b3C_g.1602$rS.723@fed1read05...
Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize
the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls
service
and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
Yep.
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Larry
He's an antagonist, a blowhard and a fool.
If you answer a question for him, he'll ask you 3 more.
He's to lazy to look up anything on his own.
What in the hell are you talking about?
It is not at all clear that the Bush White House would comply with a
judicial order, particularly not one from a lower court, to release
whatever documents some judge wants to ask for. It may be that an act
of Congress is required in order to do that. Even then, there is
No, the WH would have to appeal the decision.
executive privilege not to mention wartime powers that provide broad
protections for the security of the offices of the President and Vice
President.
It may be one thing to request discovery during a Congressional
investigation and/or impeachment proceedings, but it is another thing
entirely to demand documents when the legal basis for making such
demands has never been established. The judge can demand and order
whatever he would like, but the President is *not* obligated to release
whatever documents a judge might request, and in fact, has higher
responsibilities to refuse to release any information he would care to
withhold.
Now, your position is that a judge, a federal judge from a lower court, can
subpoena documents from the White House, and can send Marshalls to the
White
House expecting them to return with file boxes, and presumably with
anyone who
got in their way in handcuffs. But when they arrive at the White House
and are turned away ("Mr. Bush is not taking visitors today, please make
an appointment.") what do you think they are going to do? Show their
search warrant? FOR THE WHITE HOUSE? No judge has the authority to
issue a search warrant for the White House!
.
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 01:23:41 AM |
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Larry Hewitt wrote:
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Are you really suggesting that extracting documents from the White House
is a simple matter of sending Marshals to the door?
The irresistable force of a court order meets the immovable object of
Executive Privilege. Then what?
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| User: "Larry Hewitt" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 03:25:08 AM |
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"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:N7E_g.1615$rS.798@fed1read05...
Larry Hewitt wrote:
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Are you really suggesting that extracting documents from the White House
is a simple matter of sending Marshals to the door?
The irresistable force of a court order meets the immovable object of
Executive Privilege. Then what?
Impeachment, ala Nixon?
Larry
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| User: "Arfur Moo" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
22 Oct 2006 04:02:56 AM |
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Larry Hewitt <larryhewi@comporium.net> wrote in
<ehf9t5$m2n$1@news04.infoave.net>:
"jmcgill" <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:N7E_g.1615$rS.798@fed1read05...
Larry Hewitt wrote:
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Are you really suggesting that extracting documents from the White House
is a simple matter of sending Marshals to the door?
The irresistable force of a court order meets the immovable object of
Executive Privilege. Then what?
Impeachment, ala Nixon?
Larry, many readers would like you to expand on that thought.
-
Arfur Moo
(NB: Those of you who want to post a reply to this message should read the
"Followup-To:" line in my headers and then reinstate those destination groups
that you want to reinstate.)
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| User: "Rich Travsky" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
24 Oct 2006 08:47:43 PM |
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jmcgill wrote:
Larry Hewitt wrote:
Are you really calling for civil war, or are you just being perverse?
Are you really suggesting that extracting documents from the White House
is a simple matter of sending Marshals to the door?
The irresistable force of a court order meets the immovable object of
Executive Privilege. Then what?
What executive privilege?
RT
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| User: "Rich Travsky" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
24 Oct 2006 08:47:16 PM |
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jmcgill wrote:
Rich Travsky wrote:
Impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors? You really think they
are afraid of that?
Technically the judge would order the Marshalls in his court to seize the
documents called for. The marshalls would tell the US Marshalls service and
they would show up and seize the records indicated.
Case closed.
Seize documents. Seize documents from within the walls of one of the
best-defended forts in the history of military command.
No. The documents would be handed over in compliance with the *law*.
The White House had to turn over logs, rightards got Clinton ot hand over things,
and Nixon had to hand over a lot. Ample precedence.
RT
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Judge Orders Cheney Visitor Logs Opened. |
24 Oct 2006 10:13:11 PM |
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Rich Travsky wrote:
No. The documents would be handed over in compliance with the *law*.
The White House had to turn over logs, rightards got Clinton ot hand over things,
and Nixon had to hand over a lot. Ample precedence.
Neither Clinton nor Nixon was as bellicose, as secretive, nor held
themselves to be above any and all laws whenever confronted.
What makes you think Bush will hand over a single damned thing, "law" or
no "law?" You would have to force the Bushites. What process are you
imagining here, and can we use that same process to get FOIA requests
delivered as well? How about Bush's military records? How about
anything at all that Bush wrote without help?
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