| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"FED UP" |
| Date: |
20 Dec 2005 04:41:01 PM |
| Object: |
Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
Chuck Colson of the Nixon Administration went to prison for accessing
just ONE FBI file.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
Honestly I assume ALL Leftist do that anyhow.
Kidde porn ?
Hmmmm......that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
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| User: "XTS" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:33:26 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
Chuck Colson of the Nixon Administration went to prison for accessing
just ONE FBI file.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
Honestly I assume ALL Leftist do that anyhow.
Kidde porn ?
Hmmmm......that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
5- Because even ignorant, myoptic blind loyalists like you are entitled to
their civil liberties.
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| User: "Bob Eldred" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:05:45 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
Chuck Colson of the Nixon Administration went to prison for accessing
just ONE FBI file.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
Honestly I assume ALL Leftist do that anyhow.
Kidde porn ?
Hmmmm......that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
We are a nation of laws and a constitution. We either believe in these or we
don't. The reason for them is to keep a dictator, a Hitler form becoming all
powerful and doing what he wants. History is full of that and you shouldn't
have to be reminded of it. What is it about obtaining the necessary warrants
thus informing the courts of intent that you don't like or understand.
Cleary you do not favor our form of government but would much prefer a
totalitarian form with a supreme dictator, but that's not what we are and
that not what will allow America to become. The fact that you mention drug
deals and criminal activity in a discussion of a warrantless system
illustrates that you have no clue about the American system and would much
prefer a Communist or Fascist one. That's not going to happen.
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| User: "XTS" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 07:37:35 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
Chuck Colson of the Nixon Administration went to prison for accessing
just ONE FBI file.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
You dont have the mind to do anything but shout empty ditto rhtoric, there
is no use for you to try anything different now.
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
There, is your problem. Your latent homsexualuty needs to be addressed. If
you would do that you mind and complexion would clear up. You conservatives
always go straight to the homosexual well. You could not be any more
obvious.
Honestly I assume ALL Leftist do that anyhow.
Your assumptions are only manifest in your own desires. And you honesty
would be real if it were self honesty instead of you, projecting you own
inferiority complex from you inner core of sahem onto other people. Your
only hope is to be honest with yourslf about yourown homosexuality, and stop
trying to tranfer that to other people. It's so obvious, it would be funny,
if it were not so pathetic.
Kidde porn ?
There you go again. You do need help.
Hmmmm......
Thats your desire for a big set of balls in your mouth. LOL!
that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
You are a text book example of repressed homsexual with a desire for little
boys. You just said so in your own words. You need help bad.
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
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| User: "Keefer Milton" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:17:57 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
Chuck Colson of the Nixon Administration went to prison for accessing
just ONE FBI file.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
Honestly I assume ALL Leftist do that anyhow.
Kidde porn ?
Hmmmm......that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
I believe in this:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.
The president swears to uphold this document. The president has done the
exact opposite.
I am not required to give up my inalienable rights just because you have no
problem with it. This document called our Constitution guarantees I don't
have to.
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| User: "Joseph Welch" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:26:12 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would understand the necessity.
It was NOT understood that the President would order spying on American
citizens without warrants, demostrated probably cause, or accountable
oversight.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
Then try the CONSERVATIVE mind - clearly you aren't one. George Will *is*.
Try listening to a REAL conservative for a change, neocon traitor:
Why Didn't He Ask Congress?
By George F. Will
Tuesday, December 20, 2005; Page A31
The president's authorization of domestic surveillance by the National
Security Agency contravened a statute's clear language. Assuming that urgent
facts convinced him that he should proceed anyway and on his own, what
argument convinced him that he lawfully could?
Presumably the argument is that the president's implied powers as commander
in chief, particularly with the nation under attack and some of the enemy
within the gates, are not limited by statutes. A classified legal brief
probably makes an argument akin to one Attorney General John Ashcroft made
in 2002: "The Constitution vests in the president inherent authority to
conduct warrantless intelligence surveillance (electronic or otherwise) of
foreign powers or their agents, and Congress cannot by statute extinguish
that constitutional authority."
Perhaps the brief argues, as its author, John Yoo -- now a professor of law
at Berkeley but then a deputy assistant attorney general -- argued 14 days
after Sept. 11, 2001, in a memorandum on "the president's constitutional
authority to conduct military operations against terrorists and nations
supporting them," that the president's constitutional power to take
"military actions" is "plenary." The Oxford English Dictionary defines
"plenary" as "complete, entire, perfect, not deficient in any element or
respect."
The brief should be declassified and debated, beginning with this question:
Who decides which tactics -- e.g., domestic surveillance -- should be
considered part of taking "military actions''?
Without more information than can be publicly available concerning threats
from enemies operating in America, the executive branch deserves
considerable discretion in combating terrorist conspiracies using new
technologies such as cell phones and the Internet. In September 2001, the
president surely had sound reasons for desiring the surveillance
capabilities at issue.
But did he have sound reasons for seizing them while giving only minimal
information to, and having no formal complicity with, Congress? Perhaps. But
Congress, if asked, almost certainly would have made such modifications of
law as the president's plans required. Courts, too, would have been
compliant. After all, on Sept. 14, 2001, Congress had unanimously declared
that "the president has authority under the Constitution to take action to
deter and prevent acts of international terrorism," and it had authorized
"all necessary and appropriate force" against those involved in Sept. 11 or
threatening future attacks.
For more than 500 years -- since the rise of nation-states and
parliaments -- a preoccupation of Western political thought has been the
problem of defining and confining executive power. The problem is expressed
in the title of a brilliant book, "Taming the Prince: The Ambivalence of
Modern Executive Power," by Harvey Mansfield, Harvard's conservative.
Particularly in time of war or the threat of it, government needs
concentrated decisiveness -- a capacity for swift and nimble action that
legislatures normally cannot manage. But the inescapable corollary of this
need is the danger of arbitrary power.
Modern American conservatism grew in reaction against the New Deal's
creation of the regulatory state, and the enlargement of the executive
branch power that such a state entails. The intellectual vigor of
conservatism was quickened by reaction against the Great Society and the
aggrandizement of the modern presidency by Lyndon Johnson, whose aspiration
was to complete the project begun by Franklin Roosevelt.
Because of what Alexander Hamilton praised as "energy in the executive,"
which often drives the growth of government, for years many conservatives
were advocates of congressional supremacy. There were, they said, reasons
why the Founders, having waged a revolutionary war against overbearing
executive power, gave the legislative branch pride of place in Article I of
the Constitution.
One reason was that Congress's cumbersomeness, which is a function of its
fractiousness, is a virtue because it makes the government slow and
difficult to move. But conservatives' wholesome wariness of presidential
power has been a casualty of conservative presidents winning seven of the
past 10 elections.
On the assumption that Congress or a court would have been cooperative in
September 2001, and that the cooperation could have kept necessary actions
clearly lawful without conferring any benefit on the nation's enemies, the
president's decision to authorize the NSA's surveillance without the
complicity of a court or Congress was a mistake. Perhaps one caused by this
administration's almost metabolic urge to keep Congress unnecessarily
distant and hence disgruntled.
Charles de Gaulle, a profound conservative, said of another such, Otto von
Bismarck -- de Gaulle was thinking of Bismarck not pressing his advantage in
1870 in the Franco-Prussian War -- that genius sometimes consists of knowing
when to stop. In peace and in war, but especially in the latter, presidents
have pressed their institutional advantages to expand their powers to act
without Congress. This president might look for occasions to stop pressing.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
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| User: "James Of Tucson" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 06:49:17 PM |
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"It was NOT understood that the President would order spying on
American
citizens without warrants, demostrated probably cause, or accountable
oversight. "
Sooner or later, even the most right-leaning conservative Senator or
Congressman or Judge must recognize his own power being abridged. The
machine may correct itself.
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 07:18:11 PM |
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"James Of Tucson" <james0tucson@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1135126157.411484.8160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
"It was NOT understood that the President would order spying on
American
citizens without warrants, demostrated probably cause, or accountable
oversight. "
Sooner or later, even the most right-leaning conservative Senator or
Congressman or Judge must recognize his own power being abridged. The
machine may correct itself.
Conservatives should be aware that if they let Bush get away with this, the
next liberal president will also have this power. Double edged sword
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| User: "Joseph Welch" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 09:26:52 PM |
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"James Of Tucson" <james0tucson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135126157.411484.8160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sooner or later, even the most right-leaning conservative Senator or
Congressman or Judge must recognize his own power being abridged. The
machine may correct itself.
It has in the past. Experts of that time like John Dean have said that it's
WORSE now.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 04:44:43 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1135118461.180406.175130
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Hmmmm......that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
5. You are a patriot who believes in the Constitution.
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| User: "Geno1234" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 06:28:30 PM |
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Baby the NSA ain't the FBI. Period.
"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
Chuck Colson of the Nixon Administration went to prison for accessing
just ONE FBI file.
I don't bother trying to comprehend the Liberal "mind" or their
concept of justice anymore.....
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
Honestly I assume ALL Leftist do that anyhow.
Kidde porn ?
Hmmmm......that must be it and yes you've a serious concern there.
As a matter fo fact i can only think of a few things that cause
someone to oppose
the NSA fishing for domestic terrorists.......
1. You are yourself a terrorists.
2. You are child molestor and propogate kiddie porn
3. You deal or manufacture drugs
4. Some other serious criminal activity.
what else could it be?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Conservatives Hate the Constitution |
20 Dec 2005 05:35:28 PM |
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FED UP wrote:
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
Court ordered.
FOR YEARS, BUSH SAID COURT ORDERS REQUIRED FOR SPYING
WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush, caught up in a domestic
spying controversy, for the past two years has assured Americans
worried about expanded government anti-terrorism powers that court
orders were needed to tap telephones.
Bush has drawn fire over a 2002 order enabling the National Security
Agency to monitor, without a judge's go-ahead, the telephone and
electronic mail of US citizens suspected of Al-Qaeda ties when they are
in touch with someone abroad.
Critics have charged that the unprecedented move is an abuse of power
and a violation of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
(FISA), which requires court approval of wiretaps and electronic
surveillance.
The White House has fired back that Bush's move is legal under the US
Constitution and a congressional resolution, after the September 11,
2001 terrorist attacks, that authorized the use of force in
Afghanistan.
In 2004 and 2005, Bush repeatedly argued that the controversial Patriot
Act package of anti-terrorism laws safeguards civil liberties because
US authorities still need a warrant to tap telephones in the United
States.
"Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap,
it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order," he said on April 20,
2004 in Buffalo, New York.
"Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down
terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so,"
he added.
On April 19, 2004, Bush said the Patriot Act enabled law-enforcement
officials to use "roving wiretaps," which are not fixed to a particular
telephone, against terrorism, as they had been against organized crime.
"You see, what that meant is if you got a wiretap by court order -- and
by the way, everything you hear about requires court order, requires
there to be permission from a FISA court, for example," he said in
Hershey, Pennsylvania.
But under Bush's super-secret order, first revealed Friday by the New
York Times and details of which have been confirmed by Bush and other
top US officials, the National Security Agency does not need that
court's approval.
"A couple of things that are very important for you to understand about
the Patriot Act. First of all, any action that takes place by law
enforcement requires a court order," he said July 14, 2004 in Fond Du
Lac, Wisconsin.
"In other words, the government can't move on wiretaps or roving
wiretaps without getting a court order," he said. "What the Patriot Act
said is let's give our law enforcement the tools necessary, without
abridging the Constitution of the United States, the tools necessary to
defend America."
The president has also repeatedly said that the need to seek such
warrants means "the judicial branch has a strong oversight role."
"Law enforcement officers need a federal judge's permission to wiretap
a foreign terrorist's phone, a federal judge's permission to track his
calls, or a federal judge's permission to search his property," he said
in June.
"Officers must meet strict standards to use any of these tools. And
these standards are fully consistent with the Constitution of the
United States," he added in remarks at the Ohio State Highway Patrol
Academy.
He made similar comments in Baltimore, Maryland, on July 20 2005.
Vice President ***** Cheney offered similar reassurances at a Patriot
Act event in June 2004, saying that "all of the investigative tools"
under the law "require the approval of a judge before they can be
carried out."
"And similar statutes have been on the book for years, and tested in
the courts, and found to be constitutional," he said in Kansas City,
Missouri.
Asked whether Bush had misled the US public, Bush spokesman Scott
McClellan said Tuesday that Bush "was talking about (the issue) in the
context of the Patriot Act."
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/051220/afp/051220194444top.html
Bush has lied for years about this. Bush has assured Americans that
any wiretapping would be done in compliance with the law, the
Constitution, with a court order. He lied through his teeth. He said
it all the while knowing that he was spying on Americans without any
court order, without any oversight at all.
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| User: "tightwad" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 07:23:45 PM |
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FED UP wrote:
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
Your argument ignores the relevent truth.
There were already in place Laws and Agencies allowing neccessary war
time Intelligence gathering.
The situation is now the "Law" allows the monitoring of every aspect of
any or all Americans's actions, records, travels, etc.
The Intelligence gathering Legalization over the last few decades had
totally eliminate all rights to any privacy.
If you deposit 2,000.00 or more your bank is required to make a log of
it for examination by the IRS, initially, but now for any number of
Government Agencies under the umbrella of the American KGB or Homeland
Security.
If you move 10,000.00 or more your Bank is required to make a log of it
but to forward a report of it to the IRS and it is now on the computers
to be viewed by all the Agencies.
Your cell Phone GPS cannot be turned off. It is illegal to do so. Happy
tracking.
Your Phone use, domestic is subject to being monitored and international
calls are monitored by computers or humans.
Your mail is subject to being opened or intercepted at the whim since
Court Orders, no matter how convienent, are not deemed neccessary.
The new Federalized Drivers Licensces are nothing less than Internal
Passports.
You will have to obtain a new RFID equipped Passport "to return to the
United States" from Canada or Mexico. I don't believe the Illegals are
going to be affected.
Internet useage and emails are monitored.
The list is endless.
These illegal intrusions and management of American's lives is not
allowed by the People under "our" Constiution.
We gave no authority to anyone to assume these powers.
Instead of catching Terrorists they are attempting to use a Police State
to monitor and manage Americans, in hopes of catching someone doing
anything before they might possibly do it.
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| User: "humanRightsAreReal" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
23 Dec 2005 08:37:49 AM |
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I often wonder why Mr "FED UP" is not in Iraq. I profoundly doubt,
given the nature of the Usenet users, that he is under 41.
I find him eager to declare and make war, but fairly slow to sign up
and fight it.
There are a lot of blacks and lations, which Mr Fed Up hates, over in
Iraq fighting his war, and yet he has decided to sit it out.
In fact I know of not a single conservative Bush supporter to have
decided to put aside comfort of living off the fat in America to sign
up and go fight.
My father in law is a WWII vet, he finds the current climate of hawkish
cowards praising war but refusing to sign up disgusting. He had to
wait in line 6 hours to sign up in his day, and his brothers, who
failed their physicals were ashamed and angry that their youngest
brother got to go to war.
Today I find young republicans a whinning bunch of big mouths utterly
unwilling to sing up and go fight. There are probably 20,000,000 Bush
supporter conservative of age who could sign up but elect not to. If
they did sign up we would have enough troops to win Iraq and get Bin
Laden, but they prefer to post on USENET and let the poor, the children
of single mothers, blacks, hispanics, and immigrant child go do the
fighting.
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| User: "Hugh Gibbons" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 10:06:11 PM |
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In article <1135118461.180406.175130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote:
Actually, I thought it was quite clear after 9/11 that the government
was going
to begin "spying" on homebased terror cells.
I mean.....it was talked about. And it is so common sensical that even
an infant would
understand the necessity.
But strangely it has become the new "impeachable offenses" flavor of
the week.
Because there are specific laws that say how it is to be done, and
the President is saying that he can unilaterally ignore them and
do whatever he thinks is best, regardless of Congress and the courts.
He's empowered to enforce the law, not to make it up as he goes
along.
All the more strange because of the near infinite silence exhibited by
the Liberal media
at the fact that the Clinton Administration had 900+ confidential FBI
files of its political
enemies laying around the White House.
That's a whole separate issue that has nothing to do with Bush's
defiance of the law.
But perhaps someone could explain to me, during this time of war,
exactly why you
fear this internal NSA spying.
Because of the potential for abuse whenever an arm of the government
operates without oversight.
What precisely in you life is it that the NSA would possibly be
interested in looking at
and how would this examination threaten you anyhow.
They could steal my credit card numbers, ruin my credit, steal my
money, interfere with my business. In the case of my Congressman,
they could listen in on political strategy they are not supposed
to be privy to, to their political advantage.
Frequent visits to homosexual bathhouses ?
We'll leave those to you. Or maybe you prefer gay rodeo.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 01:00:13 AM |
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Well there is such a thing as a constitution, and as I recall a
President can be impeached and removed for violation of the
constitution. I know its nothing compared to *****, just the basis
of law and power that govern the US.
Why are many of us concerned that a President will order wiretaps
without a court giving a warrent, because it destroys checks and
balances for no reasons. This administration has already shown it is
willing to call anyone they want a terrorist. Remember the dirty
bomber, well he is going to trail without even a mention of a plot to
make a bomb. Remember Iraqs WMD?
In short this administration has told some massive lies, and is very
very radical. I have little doubt that Bush could order the phone
conversations of people who oppose the invasion of Iraq, or even his
Social Security reforms, tapped and if nothing illegal is found use
what ever information they find for blackmail.
That is why the constitution is so clear on the division of powers. To
spy on people in your own country you need a check on that power.
Impeach Bush NOW. This is more than a *****, time for JUSTICE in
America, the dicatatorship of the righ wing of the GOP must end.
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| User: "XTS" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 01:17:48 AM |
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<rhooker123@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135148413.884897.326650@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Well there is such a thing as a constitution, and as I recall a
President can be impeached and removed for violation of the
constitution. I know its nothing compared to *****, just the basis
of law and power that govern the US.
Why are many of us concerned that a President will order wiretaps
without a court giving a warrent, because it destroys checks and
balances for no reasons. This administration has already shown it is
willing to call anyone they want a terrorist. Remember the dirty
bomber, well he is going to trail without even a mention of a plot to
make a bomb. Remember Iraqs WMD?
In short this administration has told some massive lies, and is very
very radical. I have little doubt that Bush could order the phone
conversations of people who oppose the invasion of Iraq, or even his
Social Security reforms, tapped and if nothing illegal is found use
what ever information they find for blackmail.
That is why the constitution is so clear on the division of powers. To
spy on people in your own country you need a check on that power.
Impeach Bush NOW. This is more than a *****, time for JUSTICE in
America, the dicatatorship of the righ wing of the GOP must end.
What you just gave was a rational, well spoken answer to the question. Dont
expect the same in return. Expect something from the Neanderthal age along
the lines of "liberal bad-bush good", or "bush god", something like that.
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| User: "humanRightsAreReal" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 06:22:50 AM |
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What you just gave was a rational, well spoken answer to the question. Dont
expect the same in return. Expect something from the Neanderthal age along
the lines of "liberal bad-bush good", or "bush god", something like that.
The thing here is that Bush crossed a line, a real line, in to
dictatorship. The main concern seems to be that Bush order wiretaps of
a large and unknown number of Americans, most of whom had nothing to
indicate they were criminal. Then if they found something they went to
the court to get an order to conduct wiretaps already in place.
It seems difficult to see but this process essentially demotes to
judical power to a subset of the executive, and if it is true that
Congress was not well informed than it makes the President all powerful
in this process.
This was the one thing that bothered me about Clinton, his executive
orders. But executive orders are made public, they can be overturned
by votes of Congress or ruled illegal by the courts. But this is an
entirely different set of fish.
And it does not come as an isolated piece of news. It is not like
Bush has been doing his honest best job to live by the Constitution and
bring justice after 9-11. Since 9-11 Bush has clearly seen himself as
above the laws of the nation, and exploited that event to get things
through via a system of lies, leaks, and violations of the law. This
is just another step that monster has taken America down the road to
loss of democracy.
And look at the results!!! Bin Laden is now entirely a matter of
Executive SPIN. Its disgusting to hear the White House say again and
again that Bin Laden, though alive, is no longer a threat. I remember
hearing the same thing in 1999 when Bin Laden was dismissed by many as
sick and isolated in the mountains of Afghanistan. The typical right
wing sister-fucker probably didn't even know who Bin Laden was as he
claimed efforts to kill him were Wag the Dog over the more important
matter of sex with Monica, but member of the White House staff, not the
President, clearly have enough information to know the danger of
assuming Bin Laden away.
And the US is about to pull out so many troops from Afghanistan there
is really no chance that a US trooper will catch the man, and no reason
to assume Pakistan ever would and if they did the troops that capture
him would probably let him go for one reason or another.
Instead of fighting the war against Bin Laden Bush has spent
$6,000,000,000.00 a month to give us a Islamic Republic of Iraq
dominated by Iran and divided down ethnic lines. Wonderfull, the
growth of Islamic radicalism in Iraq backed by Iran will certainly
reduce terrorism!!! Fucking idioit.
This times its for real. The right wing has shown it will excuse
anything, and Bush is incapable of viewing anything beyond his poll
numbers and the political spin. Ameirca has one last chance her to
save itself as a respected member of the world community. Re-electing
Bush, if he was re-elected, was a massive failure by the US but perhaps
there is one last chance to show the world that the US will not let a
little man and a few cynical draft-dodging criminals steal from...
Actually come to think about it its too late now. The US is, as people
have been expecting for some times, finished as a super power. In Iraq
the concept of US domination of the world has been turned in to a joke,
and US ground forces have performed, in short, badly against a few
rebels many of whom don't even have shoes. Defeat in Iraq, which has
already happened with this diasterious election, was the final chapter,
it is now too late.
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| User: "FED UP" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 03:24:38 PM |
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Now THAT was an impressive display of Liberal self righteous
indignation !!
No really I was slightly taken aback.
I am not required to give up my inalienable rights just because you have no
problem with it. This document called our Constitution guarantees I don't
have to.
To this response I say, remember this whenever your Liberal
totalitarian
instinct compels you to confiscate Americans firearms.
In fact, tattoo that response on your forehead.
I note the total absence of any mention of Project Echelon ?
"By the 1980's, new forms of electronic surveillance were emerging
many of these were directed towards automation of communications
interception. This trend was fueled in the U. S. in the 1990's by
accelerated government funding at the end of the cold war, with defense
and intelligence agencies being refocused with new missions to justify
their budgets, transferring their technologies to certain law
enforcement applications such as anti-drug and anti-terror operations.
In 1993, the US department of defense and the Justice department signed
memoranda of understanding for 'Operations Other Than War and Law
Enforcement' to facilitate joint development and sharing of technology.
"
This NSA domestic spying has been going on for DECADES !
I gained real momentum and sophistication under THE CLINTON
ADMINISTRATION !
Yet I don't recall ANY Leftist demanding a Clinton impeachment over
Project Echelon.
See....the Left has no legitimacy because everyone knows that your
"justice" is a partisan pursuit.
What is a criminal outrage under a Republican, hardly warrants a yawn
under a Democrat.
I stated before that I denounced my "civil contract" and I repeat it
again......
I consider the political Left and Right at WAR !
My side can commit ANY crime towards victory. and that defines
justice.
Your side is incapable of "good", All you do is despicable !
And before you condemn me, I learned this from you Leftist.
I learned precisely this behaviour from you.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 03:41:09 PM |
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"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security,
deserve neither liberty or security."
Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Furious George" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 03:05:53 AM |
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wrote:
Well there is such a thing as a constitution, and as I recall a
President can be impeached and removed for violation of the
constitution. I know its nothing compared to *****, just the basis
of law and power that govern the US.
The real threat to America comes not from Al Queda, but from LIEberals,
activist judges, fat Jewish girls, and most of all the Constitution.
Are you tired of LIEberal, activist judges telling you that you can't
kill your neighbor because he is a homosexual or that you can't
celebrate Christmas by lynching Jews? Me too.
It's time we as Americans FIGHT BACK.
This New Years lets start 2006 off right by publicly burning the
Constitution on a pile of activist judges.
I say we should do what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. We should
convert one of our football fields into a giant outdoor execution
arena.
Despite what many LIEberals and activist judges say, the 2nd Amendment
to the Constitution guarantees your right to kill people who are
different than you. It's use it or lose it time. This is what you do.
(1) Get real drunk. (2) Take out your rifle and go downtown. (3)
Start shooting at anyone and everyone. (4) If some dumb cop tries to
take your gun away, tell him that the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution
guarantees your right to kill indiscriminately.
Why are many of us concerned that a President will order wiretaps
without a court giving a warrent, because it destroys checks and
balances for no reasons. This administration has already shown it is
willing to call anyone they want a terrorist. Remember the dirty
bomber, well he is going to trail without even a mention of a plot to
make a bomb. Remember Iraqs WMD?
In short this administration has told some massive lies, and is very
very radical. I have little doubt that Bush could order the phone
conversations of people who oppose the invasion of Iraq, or even his
Social Security reforms, tapped and if nothing illegal is found use
what ever information they find for blackmail.
That is why the constitution is so clear on the division of powers. To
spy on people in your own country you need a check on that power.
Impeach Bush NOW. This is more than a *****, time for JUSTICE in
America, the dicatatorship of the righ wing of the GOP must end.
.
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| User: "James Of Tucson" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
21 Dec 2005 04:13:42 PM |
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If we get to pick and choose the parts of the Constitution we don't
like under your new deal, let's do away with the requirement that the
president can only be removed from office if impeached.
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| User: "George Harrison" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:07:20 PM |
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http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/bush-caught-on-tape/
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| User: "FED UP" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:12:27 PM |
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5. You are a patriot who believes in the Constitution.
I'm drawing a blank right now.....could you remind me where in the
Constitution it prohibits
the NSA from attempting to uncover domestic terrorists ?
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| User: "Joseph Welch" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:27:08 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135120346.953137.87220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
5. You are a patriot who believes in the Constitution.
I'm drawing a blank right now.....
Naturally.
could you remind me where in the Constitution it prohibits
the NSA from attempting to uncover domestic terrorists ?
It prohibits such actions against anyone without due process and
accountabilty.
Perhaps you should read it sometime.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
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| User: "z" |
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| Title: Re: Just why are you worried NSA spies on you ? |
20 Dec 2005 05:21:48 PM |
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"FED UP" <endtraveler@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1135120346.953137.87220
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
5. You are a patriot who believes in the Constitution.
I'm drawing a blank right now.....could you remind me where in the
Constitution it prohibits
the NSA from attempting to uncover domestic terrorists ?
read the fourth amendment.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.
You must get a warrent before spying on Americans. Its that simple.
If you don't like it change the constitution.
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