| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"MrPepper11" |
| Date: |
08 Jun 2005 08:18:57 AM |
| Object: |
Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
June 8, 2005
Poll Finds Dimmer View of Iraq War
52% Say U.S. Has Not Become Safer
By Dana Milbank and Claudia Deane
Washington Post Staff Writers
For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of the
American public believes the fight there has not made the United States
safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
While the focus in Washington has shifted from the Iraq conflict to
Social Security and other domestic matters, the survey found that
Americans continue to rank Iraq second only to the economy in
importance -- and that many are losing patience with the enterprise.
Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq
is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged
down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting -- in all
three cases matching or exceeding the highest levels of pessimism yet
recorded. More than four in 10 believe the U.S. presence in Iraq is
becoming analogous to the experience in Vietnam.
Perhaps most ominous for President Bush, 52 percent said war in Iraq
has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States,
while 47 percent said it has. It was the first time a majority of
Americans disagreed with the central notion Bush has offered to build
support for war: that the fight there will make Americans safer from
terrorists at home. In late 2003, 62 percent thought the Iraq war aided
U.S. security, and three months ago 52 percent thought so.
Overall, more than half -- 52 percent -- disapprove of how Bush is
handling his job, the highest of his presidency. A somewhat larger
majority -- 56 percent -- disapproved of Republicans in Congress, and
an identical proportion disapproved of Democrats.
There were signs, however, that Bush and Republicans in Congress were
receiving more of the blame for the recent standoffs over such issues
as Bush's judicial nominees and Social Security. Six in 10 respondents
said Bush and GOP leaders are not making good progress on the nation's
problems; of those, 67 percent blamed the president and Republicans
while 13 percent blamed congressional Democrats. For the first time, a
majority, 55 percent, also said Bush has done more to divide the
country than to unite it.
The surge in violence in Iraq since the new government took control --
80 U.S. troops and more than 700 Iraqis died in May alone amid a rash
of bombings -- has been accompanied by rising gloom about the overall
fight against terrorists. By 50 percent to 49 percent, Americans
approved of the way Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism,
down from 56 percent approval in April, equaling the lowest rating he
has earned on the issue that has consistently been his core strength
with the public.
The dissipating support for the Iraq war is of potential military
concern, because, as Marine Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis wrote in a note to
his troops as he led them back into Iraq in February 2004, "our
friendly strategic center of gravity is the will of the American
people."
Some authorities on war and public opinion said the figures indicate
that pessimism about the war in Iraq has reached a dangerous level. "It
appears that Americans are coming to the realization that the war in
Iraq is not being won and may well prove unwinnable," said retired Army
Col. Andrew J. Bacevich, a professor at Boston University. "That
conclusion bleeds over into a conviction that it may not have been
necessary in the first place."
That is the view of poll respondent Margaret Boudreaux, 63, a casino
worker living in Oakdale, La. "I don't think it's going well -- there's
too much killing," she said, worrying that the Iraq invasion could move
more enemies to violence. "I think that some of the people, if they
could, would get revenge for what we've done."
"You hear a lot about Saddam but nothing about Osama bin Laden. I don't
think he [Bush] does enough to deal with the problems of terrorism. . .
.. He's done a lot of talking, but we haven't seen real changes," said
another poll respondent, Kathy Goyette, 54, a San Diego nurse. "People
are getting through airport security with things that are unbelievable.
.. . . I don't think he learned from 9/11."
While Bush has shelved his routine speeches about terrorism, and
Congress has turned to domestic issues, fear of terrorism has receded
from the public consciousness. Only 12 percent called it the nation's
top priority, behind the economy, Iraq, health care and Social
Security.
The drop in Bush's approval ratings on fighting terrorism came
disproportionately from political independents. In March, 63 percent of
independents approved of Bush's job combating terrorism. By April this
had fallen to 54 percent. And in this weekend's survey, 40 percent gave
him good marks.
The poll suggests that views on the Iraq war's impact also remain
highly partisan. Three in four Republicans said the Iraq invasion has
boosted domestic security, while three in four Democrats said it has
not. Political independents lean negative on the issue: About six in 10
said the war has not made Americans safer.
Overall, Bush's 48 percent job approval rating was essentially
unchanged from the 47 percent rating he received in a late-April poll.
And there was growth in the proportion of people who said the economy
was doing well: 44 percent, up from 37 percent in April.
But the public took a generally gloomy view of the White House and
Congress. A plurality said Bush is doing worse in his second term than
in his first, and 58 percent said he is not concentrating on the things
that matter most to them -- the worst showing Bush has had in this
measure in Post-ABC polls.
Congress fared no better. The proportion of the public disapproving of
the legislative body was at its highest since late 1998, during
President Bill Clinton's impeachment. More people said they would look
at a candidate other than their sitting representative than at any
point in nearly eight years. For the first time since April 2001,
Democrats (46 percent) were trusted more than Republicans (41 percent)
to cope with the nation's problems. But at the same time, favorability
ratings for the Democratic Party, at 51 percent, tied their all-time
low.
A total of 1,002 randomly selected adults were interviewed by telephone
June 2 to 5 for this Post-ABC News poll. The margin of sampling error
for the overall results is plus or minus three percentage points.
The poll also found disapproval or division when it came to Bush's
performance on several other recent, high-profile issues. One-third of
those surveyed approved of the way Bush is handling federal funding of
embryonic stem cell research, while 55 percent disapproved. The public
was divided on the president's handling of judicial nominations, with
46 percent approving and 44 percent disapproving. And half said they
were opposed to drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, a
proposal backed by Bush and being debated in Congress.
But the most striking trend identified by the survey was the spreading
impatience over Iraq and national security matters. While six in 10
were confident that the United States was not violating the rights of
detainees at the military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Americans were
more skeptical that the government is protecting the rights of U.S.
citizens at home. Only half said Americans' rights were being
adequately protected, down from 69 percent in September 2003.
James Burk, a sociologist at Texas A&M University, said disillusionment
about Iraq may have grown to the point that policymakers will have
difficulty reversing it. "People all across the country know people in
Iraq [so] there's a direct connection to the war," he said. Burk sees a
"disjuncture" between upbeat administration rhetoric and realities the
public perceives. "These data suggest we will soon reach the point, if
we haven't yet reached the point, where that kind of language will seem
too out of touch."
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 08:34:06 AM |
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(MrPepper11) wrote in
news:1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of
the American public believes the fight there has not made the
United States safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News
poll.
Since practically all Americans have no source of information on this
subject beyond what's presented to them in newspapers, magazines and
on TV, all this survey actually measures is whether the public
believes what the media tells them.
So, I guess the sponsor of the poll, the Washington Post, and its
sister publication Newsweek, must be happy that their position is
prevailing.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |
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| User: "mongoose" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 08:38:17 AM |
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Bert Hyman wrote:
MrPepper11@go.com (MrPepper11) wrote in
news:1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of
the American public believes the fight there has not made the
United States safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News
poll.
Since practically all Americans have no source of information on this
subject beyond what's presented to them in newspapers, magazines and
on TV, all this survey actually measures is whether the public
believes what the media tells them.
So, I guess the sponsor of the poll, the Washington Post, and its
sister publication Newsweek,
who have both joined in the suppression of the Downing Street memo,
must be happy that their position is
prevailing.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN |
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| User: "mcdaniel" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 08:55:43 AM |
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On 8 Jun 2005 06:38:17 -0700, "mongoose" <mongoose889@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
MrPepper11@go.com (MrPepper11) wrote in
news:1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of
the American public believes the fight there has not made the
United States safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News
poll.
Since practically all Americans have no source of information on this
subject beyond what's presented to them in newspapers, magazines and
on TV, all this survey actually measures is whether the public
believes what the media tells them.
So, I guess the sponsor of the poll, the Washington Post, and its
sister publication Newsweek,
who have both joined in the suppression of the Downing Street memo,
Not to mention (1) giving all kinds of ammo to the far right during
the Clinton years for his impeachment, (2) blissfully ignoring the red
flags and acting like George W Bush's little puppy dogs in advocating
the Iraq invasion.
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| User: "Cory Bhreckan " |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 09:30:12 AM |
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Bert Hyman wrote:
MrPepper11@go.com (MrPepper11) wrote in
news:1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of
the American public believes the fight there has not made the
United States safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News
poll.
Since practically all Americans have no source of information on this
subject beyond what's presented to them in newspapers, magazines and
on TV, all this survey actually measures is whether the public
believes what the media tells them.
So, I guess the sponsor of the poll, the Washington Post, and its
sister publication Newsweek, must be happy that their position is
prevailing.
If you had actually read *any* WP editorials about the war you would
know that what you just posted is absurd. The Post has been in favor of
the invasion of Iraq since 2002 and still is. I'm not talking about OpEd
pieces.
I hope this doesn't burst any little bubbles you might have about how
"liberal" the Post is.
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| User: "smokin gun" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 08:47:28 AM |
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In article <1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
June 8, 2005
Poll Finds Dimmer View of Iraq War
52% Say U.S. Has Not Become Safer
By Dana Milbank and Claudia Deane
Washington Post Staff Writers
For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of the
American public believes the fight there has not made the United States
safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
While the focus in Washington has shifted from the Iraq conflict to
Social Security and other domestic matters, the survey found that
Americans continue to rank Iraq second only to the economy in
importance -- and that many are losing patience with the enterprise.
Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq
is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged
down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting -- in all
three cases matching or exceeding the highest levels of pessimism yet
recorded. More than four in 10 believe the U.S. presence in Iraq is
becoming analogous to the experience in Vietnam.
Perhaps most ominous for President Bush, 52 percent said war in Iraq
has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States,
while 47 percent said it has. It was the first time a majority of
Americans disagreed with the central notion Bush has offered to build
support for war: that the fight there will make Americans safer from
terrorists at home. In late 2003, 62 percent thought the Iraq war aided
U.S. security, and three months ago 52 percent thought so.
Overall, more than half -- 52 percent -- disapprove of how Bush is
handling his job, the highest of his presidency. A somewhat larger
majority -- 56 percent -- disapproved of Republicans in Congress, and
an identical proportion disapproved of Democrats.
There were signs, however, that Bush and Republicans in Congress were
receiving more of the blame for the recent standoffs over such issues
as Bush's judicial nominees and Social Security. Six in 10 respondents
said Bush and GOP leaders are not making good progress on the nation's
problems; of those, 67 percent blamed the president and Republicans
while 13 percent blamed congressional Democrats. For the first time, a
majority, 55 percent, also said Bush has done more to divide the
country than to unite it.
The surge in violence in Iraq since the new government took control --
80 U.S. troops and more than 700 Iraqis died in May alone amid a rash
of bombings -- has been accompanied by rising gloom about the overall
fight against terrorists. By 50 percent to 49 percent, Americans
approved of the way Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism,
down from 56 percent approval in April, equaling the lowest rating he
has earned on the issue that has consistently been his core strength
with the public.
The dissipating support for the Iraq war is of potential military
concern, because, as Marine Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis wrote in a note to
his troops as he led them back into Iraq in February 2004, "our
friendly strategic center of gravity is the will of the American
people."
Some authorities on war and public opinion said the figures indicate
that pessimism about the war in Iraq has reached a dangerous level. "It
appears that Americans are coming to the realization that the war in
Iraq is not being won and may well prove unwinnable," said retired Army
Col. Andrew J. Bacevich, a professor at Boston University. "That
conclusion bleeds over into a conviction that it may not have been
necessary in the first place."
That is the view of poll respondent Margaret Boudreaux, 63, a casino
worker living in Oakdale, La. "I don't think it's going well -- there's
too much killing," she said, worrying that the Iraq invasion could move
more enemies to violence. "I think that some of the people, if they
could, would get revenge for what we've done."
"You hear a lot about Saddam but nothing about Osama bin Laden. I don't
think he [Bush] does enough to deal with the problems of terrorism. . .
. He's done a lot of talking, but we haven't seen real changes," said
another poll respondent, Kathy Goyette, 54, a San Diego nurse. "People
are getting through airport security with things that are unbelievable.
. . . I don't think he learned from 9/11."
While Bush has shelved his routine speeches about terrorism, and
Congress has turned to domestic issues, fear of terrorism has receded
from the public consciousness. Only 12 percent called it the nation's
top priority, behind the economy, Iraq, health care and Social
Security.
The drop in Bush's approval ratings on fighting terrorism came
disproportionately from political independents. In March, 63 percent of
independents approved of Bush's job combating terrorism. By April this
had fallen to 54 percent. And in this weekend's survey, 40 percent gave
him good marks.
The poll suggests that views on the Iraq war's impact also remain
highly partisan. Three in four Republicans said the Iraq invasion has
boosted domestic security, while three in four Democrats said it has
not. Political independents lean negative on the issue: About six in 10
said the war has not made Americans safer.
Overall, Bush's 48 percent job approval rating was essentially
unchanged from the 47 percent rating he received in a late-April poll.
And there was growth in the proportion of people who said the economy
was doing well: 44 percent, up from 37 percent in April.
But the public took a generally gloomy view of the White House and
Congress. A plurality said Bush is doing worse in his second term than
in his first, and 58 percent said he is not concentrating on the things
that matter most to them -- the worst showing Bush has had in this
measure in Post-ABC polls.
Congress fared no better. The proportion of the public disapproving of
the legislative body was at its highest since late 1998, during
President Bill Clinton's impeachment. More people said they would look
at a candidate other than their sitting representative than at any
point in nearly eight years. For the first time since April 2001,
Democrats (46 percent) were trusted more than Republicans (41 percent)
to cope with the nation's problems. But at the same time, favorability
ratings for the Democratic Party, at 51 percent, tied their all-time
low.
A total of 1,002 randomly selected adults were interviewed by telephone
June 2 to 5 for this Post-ABC News poll. The margin of sampling error
for the overall results is plus or minus three percentage points.
The poll also found disapproval or division when it came to Bush's
performance on several other recent, high-profile issues. One-third of
those surveyed approved of the way Bush is handling federal funding of
embryonic stem cell research, while 55 percent disapproved. The public
was divided on the president's handling of judicial nominations, with
46 percent approving and 44 percent disapproving. And half said they
were opposed to drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, a
proposal backed by Bush and being debated in Congress.
But the most striking trend identified by the survey was the spreading
impatience over Iraq and national security matters. While six in 10
were confident that the United States was not violating the rights of
detainees at the military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Americans were
more skeptical that the government is protecting the rights of U.S.
citizens at home. Only half said Americans' rights were being
adequately protected, down from 69 percent in September 2003.
James Burk, a sociologist at Texas A&M University, said disillusionment
about Iraq may have grown to the point that policymakers will have
difficulty reversing it. "People all across the country know people in
Iraq [so] there's a direct connection to the war," he said. Burk sees a
"disjuncture" between upbeat administration rhetoric and realities the
public perceives. "These data suggest we will soon reach the point, if
we haven't yet reached the point, where that kind of language will seem
too out of touch."
and;
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=35912
perhaps it's a hidden trend that might have even more impact than the
rest: the writing on the wall
spelled out by plunging military recruitment rates. That only adds to
the sense that, overall, the Iraq adventure has made America far less
safe in this world.
For whatever reason, it's possible that more than a few editorial
pages may finally be on the verge of saying
"enough is enough." Perhaps they might even catch up with their
readers, as the latest Gallup polls find that
57% feel the war is "not worth it," and nearly as many want us to
start pulling out troops, not sending more of them.
g adds.
MONEY , what a concept
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| User: "mcdaniel" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 08:59:13 AM |
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On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 06:47:28 -0700, smokin' gun
<georgew.k@humboldt1.com> wrote:
In article <1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq
is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged
down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting -- in all
three cases matching or exceeding the highest levels of pessimism yet
recorded. More than four in 10 believe the U.S. presence in Iraq is
becoming analogous to the experience in Vietnam.
and;
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=35912
perhaps it's a hidden trend that might have even more impact than the
rest: the writing on the wall
spelled out by plunging military recruitment rates.
Pullout is inevitable unless there is a draft. Cheney already
mentioned a date - so they can blame the next president for
"mismanaging" the war (Bush's war).
.
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| User: "Social Americans" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
17 Jun 2005 03:52:38 PM |
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"mcdaniel" <mcdaniel.zz@rem_utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:88uda1ddu0smuajjqvt4679p62pmbi6in0@4ax.com...
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 06:47:28 -0700, smokin' gun
<georgew.k@humboldt1.com> wrote:
In article <1118236737.075955.52350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
Nearly three-quarters of Americans say the number of casualties in Iraq
is unacceptable, while two-thirds say the U.S. military there is bogged
down and nearly six in 10 say the war was not worth fighting -- in all
three cases matching or exceeding the highest levels of pessimism yet
recorded. More than four in 10 believe the U.S. presence in Iraq is
becoming analogous to the experience in Vietnam.
and;
http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=35912
perhaps it's a hidden trend that might have even more impact than the
rest: the writing on the wall
spelled out by plunging military recruitment rates.
Pullout is inevitable unless there is a draft. Cheney already
mentioned a date - so they can blame the next president for
"mismanaging" the war (Bush's war).
It looks like congress is ready to pull the US troops out of Iraq very soon.
The military is good at fighting, but it has no real plan to establish
civilized civilian control which would stabilize the new government.
The idea of just allowing the banks to come in to Iraq and start printing
currency to lend to Iraqis isn't going to work.
Bankers like Paul Wolfowitz shouldn't be allowed to have anything to do with
the Dept of Defense. Bankers don't know how to run things properly. All
they seem to know is how to increase debt. LOL
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| User: "Willcox" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 04:42:14 PM |
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MrPepper11 <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
June 8, 2005
Poll Finds Dimmer View of Iraq War
52% Say U.S. Has Not Become Safer
That's a =slim= "majority".
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| User: "Bruce Mallory" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
08 Jun 2005 08:30:19 PM |
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"Willcox" <not_giving@you.my.address.com> wrote in message
news:1gxuc23.1ltortzs7kvkN%not_giving@you.my.address.com...
MrPepper11 <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
June 8, 2005
Poll Finds Dimmer View of Iraq War
52% Say U.S. Has Not Become Safer
That's a =slim= "majority".
That's right. It'll take another few decades and tens of thousands of dead
American soldiers, before the rest will wake up and come to their senses.
Bruce M.
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| User: "Willcox" |
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| Title: Re: Majority say Iraq war has not made America safer, not worth fighting |
09 Jun 2005 03:21:17 AM |
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Bruce Mallory <Bru@ce.com> wrote:
"Willcox" <not_giving@you.my.address.com> wrote in message
news:1gxuc23.1ltortzs7kvkN%not_giving@you.my.address.com...
MrPepper11 <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote:
June 8, 2005
Poll Finds Dimmer View of Iraq War
52% Say U.S. Has Not Become Safer
That's a =slim= "majority".
That's right. It'll take another few decades and tens of thousands of dead
American soldiers, before the rest will wake up and come to their senses.
Bruce M.
And that's what you want? For us to loose just to promote your politics?
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