| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Harry Hope" |
| Date: |
05 Mar 2006 08:34:07 AM |
| Object: |
Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
From UPI, 3/5/06:
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=48765b76415de1b0
Many companies plan more outsourcing
Eighty-nine percent of U.S., British and Asian corporate technology
decision makers plan to increase their outsourcing budget over the
next 12 months.
A survey conducted at the Patni Computer Systems annual conference
PatniConnect, found that 39 percent said they expect to increase
outsourcing spending by up to 20 percent over current spending, while
11 percent plan a 50 percent or more increase.
Pricing is not the most important factor in selecting an outsourcing
partner, the survey found.
Twenty-four percent said cultural fit is the top factor for
incorporating outsourcing strategies, and 24 percent said the most
important factor is quality of service.
Fourteen percent of respondents said price is their single most
important factor in selecting an outsourcer.
_____________________________________________________
Ain't they generous? Giving American jobs away?
Harry
"You know, there's concern about jobs going overseas. I share the
concern. We want people working here. We want our jobs here. And the
best way to do so is to make sure this is the best place to do
business in the world. The best way to make sure jobs are here, this
is a place for risk-takers, feel comfortable taking risk, and you're
able to do so without getting sued right and left -- so we need tort
reform."
-- Dubya takes an enormous logical leap to attribute overseas
outsourcing to companies being afraid of being sued if they employ
people in the U.S., Hudson, Wisconsin, Aug. 18, 2004
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 05:06:41 PM |
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Harry Hope wrote:
"You know, there's concern about jobs going overseas. I share the
concern. We want people working here. We want our jobs here. And the
best way to do so is to make sure this is the best place to do
business in the world. The best way to make sure jobs are here, this
is a place for risk-takers, feel comfortable taking risk, and you're
able to do so without getting sued right and left -- so we need tort
reform."
-- Dubya takes an enormous logical leap to attribute overseas
outsourcing to companies being afraid of being sued if they employ
people in the U.S., Hudson, Wisconsin, Aug. 18, 2004
Well... at least we are still exporting jobs - if lttle else.
From occassionally watching the news, I understand that 'We all got to
be edjucated' 'To get the jobs of the Future'... dontchaknow.
So far I haven't been able to determine what them there 'Jobs of the
Future' might be..
India and (now) red China are getting most of the IT jobs, and illegal
immigrants are getting a growing percentage of the US construction
industry.
...Even as the submitted budget has called for a reduction in
educational support for higher education. (!)
How long before this house of cards finally collapses?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 10:44:13 AM |
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I doubt anyone knows with 100% certainty if outsourcing helps or hurts
a nations economy, but I'm 99% sure that outsourcing / off shoring /
free trade does destroy the middle class. I'm basing this on the FACT
that countries with high standard of living have high minimum wage laws
and strong fair trade laws, Japan, Belgium, Canada, UK, Sweden for
example. While countries that have no minimum wage and do not have
fair wage laws have huge poverty and very low standard of living,
India, China, Mexico for example.
Free Trade / Outsourcing / Off shoring opens up the gates to these
countries and destroys our fair wage laws by allowing companies to get
around fair wages and minimum wage by highering from these 'slave'
nations. They effect every tier of worker from minimum wage to
professionals.
More evidence that this is the case can be found at the U.S. Census
Bureau web site. It shows that our economy is not doing good, that it
has actually been falling since 2000, and probably before this, but the
reports I looked at only go back to 2000.
This table is very interesting (from U.S. Census Bureau):
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/MYPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_MYP3_15&ds_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_&-redoLog=false&-format=
It shows:
Median household income (dollars): Decreasing from 2000 to 2004
Unemployment increasing over the same period.
It does not show 2005. I assume these figures are still being
processed.
With IT increasing, automation increasing via robotics, and nothing
really changing, we should see an increase in standard of living. So
why the decrease? Except for free trade, nothing major has changed to
my knowledge. All I see in the news to suggest an economic shift is
the increasing of debt and the exporting of jobs. Yes debt is
increasing, but that does not account for the lowering of wages while
inflation continues to crime.
Inflation means those T-Shirts and jeans aren't costing us less, yet
families make less money. So I'm not fooled by the lies about how
outsourcing will lower the cost of TVs and such. Somethings drop,
others increase. Over all, prices are going up not down. Unemployment
and average income is falling though as seen on the U.S. Census Bureau.
There is a hot and heavy push to off shore. And year after year the
news is reporting more foreclosures, more debt issues, and more jobs
being sent overseas. By ignoring the evidence, you enable Bush,
Clinton, and everyone else that wants to sell out America.
I wish Clinton was not involved, but he was via NAFTA.
Hillary is also guilty, been to India at least twice to reassure them
that if a democrat wins the next presidential election they do not have
to worry about free trade. If she wins, I have no doubt it will
continue.
I would say more republicans support free trade than democrats, but
many democrats do support free trade. There are a few that do not. I
think all but one republican senator supports free trade.
I think the reason for such a big push on free trade is pure corporate
greed and political corruption. Of course many have just been tricked.
The theory of free trade sounds good, but the facts don't support
the theory.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 11:24:48 AM |
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wrote:
I doubt anyone knows with 100% certainty if outsourcing helps or hurts
a nations economy, but I'm 99% sure that outsourcing / off shoring /
free trade does destroy the middle class. I'm basing this on the FACT
that countries with high standard of living have high minimum wage laws
and strong fair trade laws, Japan, Belgium, Canada, UK, Sweden for
example. While countries that have no minimum wage and do not have
fair wage laws have huge poverty and very low standard of living,
India, China, Mexico for example.
Free Trade / Outsourcing / Off shoring opens up the gates to these
countries and destroys our fair wage laws by allowing companies to get
around fair wages and minimum wage by highering from these 'slave'
nations. They effect every tier of worker from minimum wage to
professionals.
More evidence that this is the case can be found at the U.S. Census
Bureau web site. It shows that our economy is not doing good, that it
has actually been falling since 2000, and probably before this, but the
reports I looked at only go back to 2000.
This table is very interesting (from U.S. Census Bureau):
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/MYPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_MYP3_15&ds_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_&-redoLog=false&-format=
It shows:
Median household income (dollars): Decreasing from 2000 to 2004
Unemployment increasing over the same period.
It does not appear to factor in capital gains of individuals. People
use their homes as their savings accounts.
It does not show 2005. I assume these figures are still being
processed.
With IT increasing, automation increasing via robotics, and nothing
really changing, we should see an increase in standard of living. So
why the decrease? Except for free trade, nothing major has changed to
my knowledge. All I see in the news to suggest an economic shift is
the increasing of debt and the exporting of jobs. Yes debt is
increasing, but that does not account for the lowering of wages while
inflation continues to crime.
The number to look at on the debt is its percentage of the total
economy or budget. For example, interest payments on the national debt
is increasing, but it is decreasing as a percentage of the federal
budget.
Inflation means those T-Shirts and jeans aren't costing us less, yet
families make less money. So I'm not fooled by the lies about how
outsourcing will lower the cost of TVs and such. Somethings drop,
others increase. Over all, prices are going up not down. Unemployment
and average income is falling though as seen on the U.S. Census Bureau.
There is a hot and heavy push to off shore. And year after year the
news is reporting more foreclosures, more debt issues, and more jobs
being sent overseas. By ignoring the evidence, you enable Bush,
Clinton, and everyone else that wants to sell out America.
what does that mean? Individuals have the right to spend their money
where they want to. If someone wants to buy a foreign product or invest
outside the US they have the right. If they want to sell their home to
a foreign national they have that right also. Why should the government
be able to stop people from spending their own money?
-Steve
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| User: "Kevin Cunningham" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 03:47:32 PM |
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<trucka270@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141579488.541219.219870@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
bill_smith_701@yahoo.com wrote:
I doubt anyone knows with 100% certainty if outsourcing helps or hurts
a nations economy, but I'm 99% sure that outsourcing / off shoring /
free trade does destroy the middle class. I'm basing this on the FACT
that countries with high standard of living have high minimum wage laws
and strong fair trade laws, Japan, Belgium, Canada, UK, Sweden for
example. While countries that have no minimum wage and do not have
fair wage laws have huge poverty and very low standard of living,
India, China, Mexico for example.
Free Trade / Outsourcing / Off shoring opens up the gates to these
countries and destroys our fair wage laws by allowing companies to get
around fair wages and minimum wage by highering from these 'slave'
nations. They effect every tier of worker from minimum wage to
professionals.
More evidence that this is the case can be found at the U.S. Census
Bureau web site. It shows that our economy is not doing good, that it
has actually been falling since 2000, and probably before this, but the
reports I looked at only go back to 2000.
This table is very interesting (from U.S. Census Bureau):
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/MYPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_MYP3_15&ds_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_&-redoLog=false&-format=
It shows:
Median household income (dollars): Decreasing from 2000 to 2004
Unemployment increasing over the same period.
It does not appear to factor in capital gains of individuals. People
use their homes as their savings accounts.
Steve, The only way to convert a house into money is for some one to buy
it. This is far behind a saving account were money is converted into money.
Oh, those home loans only work if you pay them. Watch for more defaults
this year.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 12:59:54 PM |
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Steve I think for you it comes down to this.
Individuals have the right to spend their money where they want to.
Even if it destroys the middle class and increases poverty to the
levels of India and China (50%)
I think you are fine with this happening, as long as you can save 15%
on that TV at wal-mart.
I really believe that is what your entire outsourcing belief system
hinges on. "The right to buy foreign"
I'll be blunt. I don't believe as a society we have "The right to buy
foreign" in any condition.
Here are two cases when I don't think we have that right.
- If it's destructive to the economy
- If it's dangerous for national security
That TV might be 15% cheaper now, but what good is it going to do you
when you no longer have a job or when you are making 1/10th what you
make now?
And if things are really cheaper, then why is inflation continuing.
I'm guessing it's because the CEOs are pocketing 95% of the profits,
not the consumer.
It does not appear to factor in capital gains of individuals. People
use their homes as their savings accounts.
Okay, you have very intelligent points and I believe you are a very
intelligent person, but I think you are avoiding the issue here.
You are intelligent, if you thought this through I think you would
agree that capital gains does not have to be determined because
we know they are less if income is less and expenses has increased.
The number to look at on the debt is its percentage of the total
economy or budget. For example, interest payments on the national debt
is increasing, but it is decreasing as a percentage of the federal budget.
Great point, but I don't think this proves anything other than debt is
staying even.
I would bet that the average household debt is about even, but income
is dropping as seen on the U.S. Census Bureau,
and cost of living is increasing, so we have more foreclosures and
bankruptcies. The loss of jobs, I'm about 99% sure is
because of outsourcing.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 06:04:24 PM |
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wrote:
Steve I think for you it comes down to this.
Individuals have the right to spend their money where they want to.
Freedon. It is hard to argue against it.
Even if it destroys the middle class and increases poverty to the
levels of India and China (50%)
I think you are fine with this happening, as long as you can save 15%
on that TV at wal-mart.
I really believe that is what your entire outsourcing belief system
hinges on. "The right to buy foreign"
I think your premises are wrong. People in China and India work in the
export factories because they make more money there than in the village
they came from. What is your evidence to the contrary?
I'll be blunt. I don't believe as a society we have "The right to buy
foreign" in any condition.
Here are two cases when I don't think we have that right.
- If it's destructive to the economy
- If it's dangerous for national security
There is some logic to that but how do you explain that countries like
France and Germany, which have protectionist economic policies and a
lot of government regulations intended to protect workers and the
public, are very low growth, high unemployment and are becoming more
violent than before?
Remember Ross Perot campaigning against NAFTA and warning about the
giant sucking sound? The US economy has grown by leaps and bounds
since then. Was Perot wrong?
That TV might be 15% cheaper now, but what good is it going to do you
when you no longer have a job or when you are making 1/10th what you
make now?
And if things are really cheaper, then why is inflation continuing.
I'm guessing it's because the CEOs are pocketing 95% of the profits,
not the consumer.
It does not appear to factor in capital gains of individuals. People
use their homes as their savings accounts.
Okay, you have very intelligent points and I believe you are a very
intelligent person, but I think you are avoiding the issue here.
You are intelligent, if you thought this through I think you would
agree that capital gains does not have to be determined because
we know they are less if income is less and expenses has increased.
I dont know what the study was factoring in or out. I would be very
surprised to be told a families $1000 per month mortgage payment is
considered savings and not a household expenditure. In reality mortage
payments are savings.
The number to look at on the debt is its percentage of the total
economy or budget. For example, interest payments on the national debt
is increasing, but it is decreasing as a percentage of the federal budget.
Great point, but I don't think this proves anything other than debt is
staying even.
I would bet that the average household debt is about even, but income
is dropping as seen on the U.S. Census Bureau,
and cost of living is increasing, so we have more foreclosures and
bankruptcies. The loss of jobs, I'm about 99% sure is
because of outsourcing
Gee Bill, could it be worse?? You see all the new cars and trucks on
the highway, you see everyone crowding the roads on the weekdays
getting to work, the malls are packed, houses are popping up
everywhere, getting bigger all the time. This would not be happening
if it was not for immigration and outsourcing.
It is ok to protect the country and preserve our way of life. I might
even agree with shutting things down to achieve that. The problem is
it is not possible and will likely tank the economy.
-Steve
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| User: "Defendario" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
05 Mar 2006 06:39:56 PM |
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wrote:
bill_smith_701@yahoo.com wrote:
Steve I think for you it comes down to this.
Individuals have the right to spend their money where they want to.
Freedon. It is hard to argue against it.
Even if it destroys the middle class and increases poverty to the
levels of India and China (50%)
I think you are fine with this happening, as long as you can save 15%
on that TV at wal-mart.
I really believe that is what your entire outsourcing belief system
hinges on. "The right to buy foreign"
I think your premises are wrong. People in China and India work in the
export factories because they make more money there than in the village
they came from. What is your evidence to the contrary?
He isn't claiming anything to the contrary. But social conditions being
what they are in Asia, do you want to live like a coolie?
I'll be blunt. I don't believe as a society we have "The right to buy
foreign" in any condition.
Here are two cases when I don't think we have that right.
- If it's destructive to the economy
- If it's dangerous for national security
There is some logic to that but how do you explain that countries like
France and Germany, which have protectionist economic policies and a
lot of government regulations intended to protect workers and the
public, are very low growth, high unemployment and are becoming more
violent than before?
They suffer from the same malaise. But at least their economic
situation is not so dangerous as ours. Compare national debts, and
balance of trade figures.
Remember Ross Perot campaigning against NAFTA and warning about the
giant sucking sound? The US economy has grown by leaps and bounds
since then. Was Perot wrong?
No. Jobs are sucking to Mexico, and other places. Non-executive wages
are stagnant or falling, which isn't a sign of a growing economy. It is
the sign of the petit bourgeois class being turned into proletarians,
while a few capitalists plunder.
That TV might be 15% cheaper now, but what good is it going to do you
when you no longer have a job or when you are making 1/10th what you
make now?
And if things are really cheaper, then why is inflation continuing.
I'm guessing it's because the CEOs are pocketing 95% of the profits,
not the consumer.
It does not appear to factor in capital gains of individuals. People
use their homes as their savings accounts.
Okay, you have very intelligent points and I believe you are a very
intelligent person, but I think you are avoiding the issue here.
You are intelligent, if you thought this through I think you would
agree that capital gains does not have to be determined because
we know they are less if income is less and expenses has increased.
I dont know what the study was factoring in or out. I would be very
surprised to be told a families $1000 per month mortgage payment is
considered savings and not a household expenditure. In reality mortage
payments are savings.
But as he said, you can't use the money unless you are willing to live
as a street person, or a landless peasant (renter)
If the real-estate market collapses, it's Hooverville time.
The number to look at on the debt is its percentage of the total
economy or budget. For example, interest payments on the national debt
is increasing, but it is decreasing as a percentage of the federal budget.
Great point, but I don't think this proves anything other than debt is
staying even.
I would bet that the average household debt is about even, but income
is dropping as seen on the U.S. Census Bureau,
and cost of living is increasing, so we have more foreclosures and
bankruptcies. The loss of jobs, I'm about 99% sure is
because of outsourcing
Gee Bill, could it be worse?? You see all the new cars and trucks on
the highway, you see everyone crowding the roads on the weekdays
getting to work, the malls are packed, houses are popping up
everywhere, getting bigger all the time. This would not be happening
if it was not for immigration and outsourcing.
*****. Housing would be needed since the population is expanding.
More of all types of workers are needed in a growing economy, but when
you outsource all the jobs, eventually you lose the demand market too.
It's just a question of how long China and Saudi Arabia are willing to
extend the US Treasury credit, in the form of buying securities.
It is ok to protect the country and preserve our way of life. I might
even agree with shutting things down to achieve that. The problem is
it is not possible and will likely tank the economy.
If we moved toward protectionism, and energy self-sufficiency
(agribusiness) our nation would prosper. Add a steeply progressive
income tax, and invest in education of our youth, and you reverse the
reichwing trend.
-Steve
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
06 Mar 2006 08:45:24 AM |
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If we moved toward protectionism, and energy self-sufficiency
(agribusiness) our nation would prosper. Add a steeply progressive
income tax, and invest in education of our youth, and you reverse the
reichwing trend.
I really like the part about - education of our youth.
Very important and I think it's probably the second largest crisis that
is going on right now. The push towards vouchers and away from public
education...
Freedon. It is hard to argue against it.
Whose freedom? The freedom I'm talking about is the freedom of CEOs
to exploit workers. I have no problem arguing against that freedom.
I think your premises are wrong. People in China and India work in the
export factories because they make more money there than in the village
they came from. What is your evidence to the contrary?
This makes no sense. I believe you have a hidden agenda. You are
using a cheap arguing tactic, I think it's called the red hearing.
When you can't win through logic, you send people down a road that has
nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I'll be blunt. I don't believe as a society we have "The right to buy
foreign" in any condition.
Here are two cases when I don't think we have that right.
- If it's destructive to the economy
- If it's dangerous for national security
There is some logic to that but how do you explain that countries like
France and Germany, which have protectionist economic policies and a
lot of government regulations intended to protect workers and the
public, are very low growth, high unemployment and are becoming more
violent than before?
Simply a false statement. France I know for a fact outsources.
Germany probably does too and I certainly wouldn't compare Germany to
anyone considering their east Germany integration issues. France does
not outsource agriculture to my knowledge, but that is only one area...
Remember Ross Perot campaigning against NAFTA and warning about the
giant sucking sound? The US economy has grown by leaps and bounds
since then. Was Perot wrong?
No I don't remember that. I didn't support Perot, but if he said that
then apparently he was right as that is exactly what is happening to
the economy. As before, check out the U.S. Census Bureau. Standard of
living is falling, poverty is rising. I'll not waste your time
restating everything again. It's all in the above post.
I dont know what the study was factoring in or out. I would be very
surprised to be told a families $1000 per month mortgage payment is
considered savings and not a household expenditure. In reality mortage
payments are savings.
Even the financial advisors on Opera just this last week commented on
this and said that using your house as a retirement account is a very
bad practice.
Gee Bill, could it be worse?? You see all the new cars and trucks on
the highway, you see everyone crowding the roads on the weekdays
getting to work, the malls are packed, houses are popping up
everywhere, getting bigger all the time. This would not be happening
if it was not for immigration and outsourcing.
It is ok to protect the country and preserve our way of life. I might
even agree with shutting things down to achieve that. The problem is
it is not possible and will likely tank the economy.
I do see the new cars and big houses. And that is a good point. I
have wondered the same thing. How can the median income be falling yet
there are so many new neighborhoods with enormous homes being built.
Well, I think we are starting to see the answer to that. Daily reports
of the 'cooling in the real-estate market'. Foreclosures are making
front-page news regularly.
Regardless of any observations we might have. The facts are the median
house hold income is dropping and has been for several years. The
poverty level has been increasing for several years. People are losing
their jobs in professional areas as even Bush freely admits. And the
only significant change is outsourcing / free trade / offshoring.
WTO is pushing free trade hard. WTO is not a democracy, they do not
represent Americans. They do represent very rich and powerful CEOs.
Given WTO with it's obvious motives and given the facts below, I have
to believe the facts.
Facts:
- Standard of living is falling
- Poverty is rising
- Countries that have fair trade laws have powerhouse economies and
high standard of livings (UK, Canada, Japan, U.S., France, Germany,
Sweden)
- Countries that do not have fair trade laws have huge poverty levels
and non existent standard of living (India, China, Mexico)
- Free Trade / Offshoring / Outsourcing opens up a loophole / way
around fair trade laws.
I really feel that I've made my case. I feel I'm acknowledging and
answering your points, but do not feel you are really reading my posts.
Steve, you disrespect and waste my time by not reading my posts and
truly trying to understand. If you want to really get to the bottom of
this, I suggest you refute the above facts with explanations and back
those up with proof, by linking your resources. I have made no false
claims, please extend me the same courtesy by also not making false
claims.
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| User: "Chuck Feney" |
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| Title: Re: Many companies plan more outsourcing. |
06 Mar 2006 06:54:22 AM |
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On Sun, 05 Mar 2006, Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
From UPI, 3/5/06:
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=48765b76415de1b0
Many companies plan more outsourcing
What a great idea! We should give the corporate class more tax cuts
to speed up the end of the American middle class and the restoration
of feudalism.
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