| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Captain Compassion" |
| Date: |
28 Jun 2007 09:17:37 AM |
| Object: |
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice —
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-glaciers-refuse-to-shrink/
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing “snows of
Kilimanjaro” – Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists – no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers “Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise.” Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled “Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change.” To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l’Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva – the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic – based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ‘‘Mont Blanc’’ on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and Dôme du Goûter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state “The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed ±15 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at Dôme du Goûter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering the
uncertainty interval, i.e., ±5 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas”.
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state “All these results suggest
that the SMB at Dôme du Goûter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century.” The first sentence of
their conclusions section states “Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years.” Later in the conclusions
section, they write “In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1°C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed.”
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at Dôme du Goûter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
| User: "Roger" |
|
| Title: Re: Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
29 Jun 2007 01:57:34 AM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:lgg7831kuisq119nhdf41bgr3f49qgmpd1@4ax.com...
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice -
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-glaciers-refuse-to-shrink/
The bio of the editor of the "world climate report" BLOG: (The article is
unsigned. Pride in action!)
From http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patrick_J._Michaels
Writing in Harpers Magazine in 1995, author Ross Gelbspan noted that
"Michaels has received more than $115,000 over the last four years from coal
and energy interests. World Climate Review, a quarterly he founded that
routinely debunks climate concerns, was funded by Western Fuels."[2]
Asked about his funding on CNN in August 2002 Michaels rejected the
suggestion that industry funding influenced his work. "Well, you know, most
of my funding, the vast majority, comes from taxpayer-supported entities. I
would make the argument that if funding colors research, I should be
certainly biased more towards the taxpayers, of which I am one, than towards
industry. But the fact of the matter is, numbers are objective," he said.
[3]
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing "snows of
Kilimanjaro" - Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists - no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers "Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise." Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled "Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change." To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l'Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva - the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic - based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ''Mont Blanc'' on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and Dôme du Goûter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state "The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed ±15 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at Dôme du Goûter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering the
uncertainty interval, i.e., ±5 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas".
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state "All these results suggest
that the SMB at Dôme du Goûter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century." The first sentence of
their conclusions section states "Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years." Later in the conclusions
section, they write "In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1°C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed."
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at Dôme du Goûter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "John B." |
|
| Title: Re: Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
02 Jul 2007 01:34:52 PM |
|
|
On Jun 29, 2:57 am, "Roger" <roge...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:lgg7831kuisq119nhdf41bgr3f49qgmpd1@4ax.com...
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice -
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-gla...
The bio of the editor of the "world climate report" BLOG: (The article is
unsigned. Pride in action!)
Fromhttp://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=3DPatrick_J._Michaels
Writing in Harpers Magazine in 1995, author Ross Gelbspan noted that
"Michaels has received more than $115,000 over the last four years from c=
oal
and energy interests. World Climate Review, a quarterly he founded that
routinely debunks climate concerns, was funded by Western Fuels."[2]
Asked about his funding on CNN in August 2002 Michaels rejected the
suggestion that industry funding influenced his work. "Well, you know, mo=
st
of my funding, the vast majority, comes from taxpayer-supported entities.=
I
would make the argument that if funding colors research, I should be
certainly biased more towards the taxpayers, of which I am one, than towa=
rds
industry. But the fact of the matter is, numbers are objective," he said.
[3]
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing "snows of
Kilimanjaro" - Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists - no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers "Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise." Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled "Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change." To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l'Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva - the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic - based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ''Mont Blanc'' on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and D=F4me du Go=FBter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state "The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed =B115 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at D=F4me du Go=FBter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering =
the
uncertainty interval, i.e., =B15 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas".
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state "All these results suggest
that the SMB at D=F4me du Go=FBter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century." The first sentence of
their conclusions section states "Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years." Later in the conclusions
section, they write "In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1=B0C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed."
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at D=F4me du Go=FBter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I heard Pat Michaels speak about climate change in the late 80s. His
argument then was that CC didn't even exist, nevermind whether it was
human-caused. In that lecture, he also said stratospheric ozone
depletion was a myth. He's been riding the fossil fuel industry gravy
train ever since.
.
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| User: "John B." |
|
| Title: Re: Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
28 Jun 2007 09:29:44 AM |
|
|
On Jun 28, 10:17 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice -http://www.worldclimatere=
port.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-gla...
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing "snows of
Kilimanjaro" - Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists - no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers "Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise." Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled "Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change." To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l'Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva - the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic - based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ''Mont Blanc'' on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and D=F4me du Go=FBter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state "The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed =B115 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at D=F4me du Go=FBter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering the
uncertainty interval, i.e., =B15 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas".
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state "All these results suggest
that the SMB at D=F4me du Go=FBter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century." The first sentence of
their conclusions section states "Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years." Later in the conclusions
section, they write "In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1=B0C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed."
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at D=F4me du Go=FBter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net
So, there is one sub-alpine glacier that doesn't appear to be melting.
That proves what, exactly?
.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
28 Jun 2007 10:54:17 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:29:44 -0000, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:17 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice -http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-gla...
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing "snows of
Kilimanjaro" - Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists - no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers "Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise." Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled "Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change." To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l'Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva - the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic - based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ''Mont Blanc'' on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and Dôme du Goûter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state "The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed ±15 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at Dôme du Goûter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering the
uncertainty interval, i.e., ±5 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas".
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state "All these results suggest
that the SMB at Dôme du Goûter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century." The first sentence of
their conclusions section states "Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years." Later in the conclusions
section, they write "In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1°C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed."
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at Dôme du Goûter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net
So, there is one sub-alpine glacier that doesn't appear to be melting.
That proves what, exactly?
If you make the claim, as does Al Gore, that *all* glaciers are
melting and this constitutes proof of global warming then to refute
that claim I need only point to one glacier that is not.
Science that lives by anecdotal evidence dies by anecdotal evidence.
-- Captain Compassion
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Balanced View" |
|
| Title: Re: Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
30 Jun 2007 11:21:33 PM |
|
|
Captain Compassion wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:29:44 -0000, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:17 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice -http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-gla...
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing "snows of
Kilimanjaro" - Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists - no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers "Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise." Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled "Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change." To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l'Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva - the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic - based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ''Mont Blanc'' on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and Dôme du Goûter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state "The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed ±15 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at Dôme du Goûter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering the
uncertainty interval, i.e., ±5 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas".
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state "All these results suggest
that the SMB at Dôme du Goûter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century." The first sentence of
their conclusions section states "Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years." Later in the conclusions
section, they write "In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1°C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed."
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at Dôme du Goûter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net
So, there is one sub-alpine glacier that doesn't appear to be melting.
That proves what, exactly?
If you make the claim, as does Al Gore, that *all* glaciers are
melting and this constitutes proof of global warming then to refute
that claim I need only point to one glacier that is not.
Science that lives by anecdotal evidence dies by anecdotal evidence.
-- Captain Compassion
The problem is is it not anecdotal. Since 1850 the glaciers of the
European Alps have lost about 30 to 40% of
their surface area and about half of their volume.The one in question is
in an area that has never been above freezing,
so for the present it's not going anywhere. To use one glacier as a
reason to say that glaciers are not retreating all over
the world is grasping at straws.
To say Glaciers all over the world are retreating is correct, to say
they all are would not be correct, but it wouldn't mean
that global warming wasn't happening. The remaining glaciers are simply
in a position where the temperature has not yet
increased enough to being the process.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink? |
01 Jul 2007 01:57:45 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 00:21:33 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
wrote:
Captain Compassion wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:29:44 -0000, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jun 28, 10:17 am, Captain Compassion <dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net>
wrote:
June 26, 2007
Mont Blanc Glaciers Refuse to Shrink?
Filed under: Climate History, Glaciers/Sea Ice -http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/06/26/mont-blanc-gla...
If you have an interest in global warming and its effect on mountain
glaciers, you will be thrilled to know that there are over one million
websites on the subject. Even before you get to the first site, you
already know what you will find. Burning fossil fuels increases
atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases, the Earth is warming,
mountain glaciers are in full retreat all over the planet, delicate
ecosystems are in peril, and humans who rely on the freshwater from
mountain glaciers better get creative fast. Recall that in the Gore
film, a great deal of attention was paid to the diminishing "snows of
Kilimanjaro" - Gore has made hay in Glacier National Park as well
pointing to shrinking glaciers. Retreating mountain glaciers have
become a poster-child of the global warming alarmists - no
presentation on the subject is complete without one.
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says in their
recent 2007 Summary for Policymakers "Mountain glaciers and snow cover
have declined on average in both hemispheres. Widespread decreases in
glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise." Someone in
Europe missed the memo on this subject as a recent article has
appeared in the Journal of Geophysical Research entitled "Very
high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th
century climate change." To say the least, we at World Climate Report
were interested in what the authors had to say.
The research was conducted by six scientists from leading agencies and
departments in France and Switzerland that deal with hydrology and
glaciology. Before you see the title of the article and immediately
suspect some conspiracy funded by European coal companies, be aware
that the research was funded by Observatoire des Sciences de l'Univers
de Grenoble (OSUG), the European Programs ALPCLIM and CARBOSOL, and by
the city of Chamonix Mont-Blanc. Given the title of the article, we
wonder if the six scientists will ever be funded again by any European
agencies.
If your geography on the Mont Blanc region is a bit rusty, the map
below will help (Figure 1). Mont Blanc is located on the border of
Switzerland and France, and the summit of Mont Blanc is clearly
visible from the United Nations complex in Geneva - the home of
countless meetings of the IPCC and other international agencies
addressing the climate change issue. How ironic - based on the title
of the article, we doubt the research will be prominently featured in
any upcoming IPCC meeting in Geneva?
Figure 1. The French Alps. ''Mont Blanc'' on the map shows the
location of the Mont Blanc and Dôme du Goûter ice fields. The
Chamonix, Bourg St. Maurice, and Besse en Oisans meteorological
stations are also plotted (from Vincent et al., 2007).
The Vincent et al. team collected a variety of datasets that could
help them understand how the high elevation glaciers of Mont Blanc
were impacted by variations and trends in climate. Among other
findings, they found that the mass balance of the glaciers is strongly
controlled by precipitation, not temperature. The team used accurate
survey maps from 1905 to compare to maps they generated with modern
GPS measurements, and by subtracting the two surfaces, they could
determine changes in the ice fields during the 20th century (see the
two figures below).
Vincent et al. state "The most striking features of these figures are
the small thickness changes observed over the 20th century. For both
areas, thickness variations do not exceed ±15 m. The average changes
are +2.6 m at Dôme du Goûter and -0.3 m at Mont Blanc. Considering the
uncertainty interval, i.e., ±5 m, it can be concluded that no
significant thickness change is detectable over most of these areas".
Putting all their findings together regarding the surface mass balance
(SMB) of these two glaciers, they state "All these results suggest
that the SMB at Dôme du Goûter and Mont Blanc did not experience any
significant changes over the 20th century." The first sentence of
their conclusions section states "Geodetic measurements carried out in
1905 and 2005 on the highest ice fields of the Mont Blanc range
indicate small thickness changes and show that these very
high-elevation glaciated areas have not been significantly affected by
climate change over the last 100 years." Later in the conclusions
section, they write "In any case, this study reveals that the very
high-elevation ice fields in the Mont Blanc area have not been
affected by the climate warming. The 20th century climate warming
affected the atmospheric temperature in the Alps by +1°C. However this
change did not significantly affect the ice deformation rate in the
high-altitude ice fields since the ice temperature remains far below
the melting point and therefore keeping the glacier frozen to its
bed."
We get the message, but we strongly suspect folks at the United
Nations in Geneva would have no time for this message from the top of
nearby Mont Blanc!
Figure 2. Thickness changes (m) at Dôme du Goûter between 1905 and
2005, from an old map and recent geodetic measurements (from Vincent
et al., 2007).
Figure 3. Thickness changes (m) on the Mont Blanc ice cap between 1905
and 2005 (from Vincent et al., 2007).
Reference:
Vincent, C., E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, and S. Preunkert
(2007), Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by
the 20th century climate change, Journal of Geophysical Research, 112,
D09120, doi:10.1029/2006JD007407.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
dar...@NOSPAMcharter.net
So, there is one sub-alpine glacier that doesn't appear to be melting.
That proves what, exactly?
If you make the claim, as does Al Gore, that *all* glaciers are
melting and this constitutes proof of global warming then to refute
that claim I need only point to one glacier that is not.
Science that lives by anecdotal evidence dies by anecdotal evidence.
-- Captain Compassion
The problem is is it not anecdotal. Since 1850 the glaciers of the
European Alps have lost about 30 to 40% of
their surface area and about half of their volume.The one in question is
in an area that has never been above freezing,
so for the present it's not going anywhere. To use one glacier as a
reason to say that glaciers are not retreating all over
the world is grasping at straws.
Another factor necessary for glacial growth is precipitation.
To say Glaciers all over the world are retreating is correct, to say
they all are would not be correct, but it wouldn't mean
that global warming wasn't happening. The remaining glaciers are simply
in a position where the temperature has not yet
increased enough to being the process.
It is even more correct to state that glaciers have been retreating
all over the world sense the peak of the last glacial advance 18,000
years ago when the volume of ice in the Northern Hemisphere exceeded
that of current day Antarctica.
Yes it has been warming for around 18,000 years.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Celibacy in healthy human beings is a form of
insanity. -- Captain Compassion
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
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