Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "ArKLyte_"
Date: 25 May 2004 03:00:20 PM
Object: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?
http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9131.shtml
Muslims - They Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?
Commentary by Tom Segal
May 25, 2004
"It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission. We cannot speak for those countries in Europe,
but there is one thing all Islamists should quickly learn about
America….it doesn’t submit to anyone..."
Living next to the Texas-Mexico border gives one a different view of
life than is experienced by most Americans. On one side of the Rio
Grande are millions of Mexicans willing to risk anything to cross that
ribbon of muddy water. North of the riverbank is another population
made up of citizens, legal residents and undocumented workers.
Ethnically, 90% of this population is Hispanic.
If you remove the divisiveness of politics and ask people how they
view themselves or those around them, most will say they are
Americans. Many will say they are Texans. Few, if any, claim
allegiance to Mexico or any Latin American country.
The culture here is also unique. From food to festivals we all call
it Tex-Mex. The richest in culture, customs and traditions of both
nations have been blended into a way of life, which might seem strange
to some, but proves to be very rewarding for those of us who make our
homes in the Rio Grande Valley.
Now view this cultural assimilation by both Hispanic and Anglo along
the U.S. border with what exists in countries experiencing immigration
by Muslims.
France has seen a large Muslim immigration, primarily from Algeria,
Senegal and Mali. These people have never been totally accepted by the
French citizenry. The Muslim population is estimated at 4 to 5
million in a country of 60 million people.
The country has seen an explosion of mosques, with numbers now in
excess of 1,200. With a growing resentment toward the immigrants,
these mosques increase the anxiety about Muslims felt by the French
Christian community. The large number of young Muslims who claim no
allegiance to France, but instead claim to be Islamists further
heightens this anxiety.
France does have a radical–Muslim problem. This militant version of
Islam is not being imported, but is increasingly homegrown. It
includes not only Muslims on the fringe of French society, but
hundreds of highly educated and westernized French Muslims who are
becoming intoxicated with the holy-war ideology being preached
throughout western Europe. When asked, most will deny any involvement
or assimilation into French culture.
Muslim immigration to Germany has been primarily from Turkey. Since
1990 there has been an increase in Muslim asylum seekers from Iran,
Afghanistan and Pakistan. This has grown that immigrant population to
about 2.5 million.
In Germany, Muslim youth are following an Iranian concept, which is
known as "the new holy-war community of believers." It recognizes no
national or ethnic identity. It even shows distain for traditional
Islamic values. This new doctrine is one, which The Weekly Standard
calls," a belief that suicide and murder become sacred acts of
believers who want to bring about a purifying Apocalypse."
Holland has seen a thirty-year experiment in trying to develop a
tolerant multicultural society fail. Government officials claim their
worst mistake was to encourage Muslim children to speak Turkish,
Arabic or Berber in elementary school, instead of Dutch. The result…
850,000 Muslims who have failed to assimilate into the nation’s
culture, import spouses from their home countries, are creating
militant enclaves, actively preach Jihad and work to built a terrorist
networks in this nation of only 16 million people.
Our most important ally Great Britain has not been immune to a growing
Muslim presence. In 1951 there were only 23,000 Muslims in the
country. Fifty years later that figure had expanded to 2 million. In
addition to a documented Muslim immigrant population made up primarily
of Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, there has been a large influx
of undocumented Arabs and Somalis whose numbers are disputed.
That these are true asylum seekers is suspect. They have been seen by
the thousands in mosques listening to anti-western Islamic rhetoric.
It is known some are taking lessons in making incendiary devices and
other weapons of terror. Even France, with Muslim problems of its
own, has warned Britain that many of those it is sheltering under the
asylum system are terrorists.
According to Frontpagemag.com, French intelligence services have even
provided the names of known terrorists living in Great Britain and
told the British which mosques these terrorists attend. Nothing has
been done and Britain’s Muslim problem continues
Currently there are about 23 million Muslims residing in Europe. Of
course, these are not all fundamentalists. In all fairness in must be
noted that many Muslims have become westernized. By accepting western
values and lifestyle, they have also made themselves targets to the
more militant of Islamic factions. There is major conflict between the
new western approach to life and what those who claim to be Islamists
demand. Those Muslims who adopt western ways are also the enemy in
the eyes of fundamentalists.
Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something,
which baffles both Europeans and Americans. This hatred is a
rejection of western civilization, not only for what it is, but also
for the values it professes. Among the Islamists, those who promote
or accept this life style are enemies of God.
In Islam the war between good and evil has both political and military
dimensions. By their philosophy, according to Bernard Lewis writing
in Atlantic Monthly, "If the fighters in a war for Islam, the holy war
in the path of God, are fighting for God, it follows that their
opponents are fighting against God. And since God is in principle,
the sovereign, the supreme head of the Islamic state…then God as
sovereign commands the army." Lewis goes on to write, "The duty of
God’s soldiers is to dispatch God’s enemies as quickly as possible to
the place where God will chastise them, that is to say, the
afterlife."
Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and
the platform on which Muslims base their militancy. As this radical
version of the faith has grown, it has destroyed the culture of a
great people. Once leading the world in art, science and education,
militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a
Third World country. It has triggered more warfare than any faith.
As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the
world that do not involve Islam.
Muslims in America have found open hostility since the events of
September 11, 2001. Some leaders of the Islamic community have been
urging Muslims to return to the countries of their origin. Other
leaders have been urging the establishment of stronger Islamic
communities here in the United States. While traditional Islamic law
states Muslims should reside in their own lands, it also concedes that
Muslims may live in non-Muslim lands as long as they fulfill their
religious obligations.
Observers see the Muslim community as being very conflicted because of
the pronouncements by its own leadership. Increasing the conflict is
the fact that Muslims born in the United States are more open, more
tolerant and less sectarian. This creates divisions, which have
detrimental effects within these closed communities. Regardless of
being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar
views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States
foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims.
Viewed from the western perspective, Muslim immigration into the
United States is becoming a concern. Islam is the fastest growing
religion in the nation. In just over thirty years, immigration from
the mid-east has changed from being about 15% to 73% of immigrants
being Muslim. From a small number in the 1970s, the mid-eastern
immigrants have grown to an estimated 2.5 million.
Within this body of immigrants we have already found terror cells,
terror finance operations and those who support fundamentalist ideas.
We have also seen that that Muslim support of America’s War on Terror
has been weak at best. There have been a few letters to newspapers,
sound bites on television news and interviews where Muslim leaders go
through the motions of expressing sorrow at the loss of 3,000 innocent
lives or words of encouragement of the people of America. Missing has
been any real expression of outrage at any terrorist act.
Now our own government, in an attempt to be politically correct says,
"We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terror!" A nation
cannot be at war with an outcome. Terror is an outcome of militant
Islam.
With all of these things unfolding, there is now even a movement to
modify language. We are being told that it is not a preaching of
Islam to hate. They even tell us that Islam really means "peace".
This is a new definition by any stretch. What Islam means is
"submission". It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission.
We cannot speak for those countries in Europe, but there is one thing
all Islamists should quickly learn about America - it doesn’t submit to
anyone.
--
* See the REAL 'Religion of Peace', Islam, on this site - EXCELLENT
* http://www.mathematik.net/homepage/islam/islam.htm
* Translated: http://tinyurl.com/2ooqh
.

User: "Gus"

Title: Re: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate? 25 May 2004 03:15:48 PM
ArKLyte_ <ArkLyte_@Now.Net> wrote in message
news:0j97b0hrp83at3mpqn1tkpvp1858rm74fm@4ax.com...


http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9131.shtml

Muslims - They Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?

Commentary by Tom Segal
May 25, 2004

"It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission. We cannot speak for those countries in Europe,
but there is one thing all Islamists should quickly learn about
America..it doesn't submit to anyone..."

Living next to the Texas-Mexico border gives one a different view of
life than is experienced by most Americans. On one side of the Rio
Grande are millions of Mexicans willing to risk anything to cross that
ribbon of muddy water. North of the riverbank is another population
made up of citizens, legal residents and undocumented workers.
Ethnically, 90% of this population is Hispanic.

If you remove the divisiveness of politics and ask people how they
view themselves or those around them, most will say they are
Americans. Many will say they are Texans. Few, if any, claim
allegiance to Mexico or any Latin American country.

The culture here is also unique. From food to festivals we all call
it Tex-Mex. The richest in culture, customs and traditions of both
nations have been blended into a way of life, which might seem strange
to some, but proves to be very rewarding for those of us who make our
homes in the Rio Grande Valley.

Now view this cultural assimilation by both Hispanic and Anglo along
the U.S. border with what exists in countries experiencing immigration
by Muslims.

France has seen a large Muslim immigration, primarily from Algeria,
Senegal and Mali. These people have never been totally accepted by the
French citizenry. The Muslim population is estimated at 4 to 5
million in a country of 60 million people.

The country has seen an explosion of mosques, with numbers now in
excess of 1,200. With a growing resentment toward the immigrants,
these mosques increase the anxiety about Muslims felt by the French
Christian community. The large number of young Muslims who claim no
allegiance to France, but instead claim to be Islamists further
heightens this anxiety.

France does have a radical-Muslim problem. This militant version of
Islam is not being imported, but is increasingly homegrown. It
includes not only Muslims on the fringe of French society, but
hundreds of highly educated and westernized French Muslims who are
becoming intoxicated with the holy-war ideology being preached
throughout western Europe. When asked, most will deny any involvement
or assimilation into French culture.

Muslim immigration to Germany has been primarily from Turkey. Since
1990 there has been an increase in Muslim asylum seekers from Iran,
Afghanistan and Pakistan. This has grown that immigrant population to
about 2.5 million.

In Germany, Muslim youth are following an Iranian concept, which is
known as "the new holy-war community of believers." It recognizes no
national or ethnic identity. It even shows distain for traditional
Islamic values. This new doctrine is one, which The Weekly Standard
calls," a belief that suicide and murder become sacred acts of
believers who want to bring about a purifying Apocalypse."

Holland has seen a thirty-year experiment in trying to develop a
tolerant multicultural society fail. Government officials claim their
worst mistake was to encourage Muslim children to speak Turkish,
Arabic or Berber in elementary school, instead of Dutch. The result.
850,000 Muslims who have failed to assimilate into the nation's
culture, import spouses from their home countries, are creating
militant enclaves, actively preach Jihad and work to built a terrorist
networks in this nation of only 16 million people.

Our most important ally Great Britain has not been immune to a growing
Muslim presence. In 1951 there were only 23,000 Muslims in the
country. Fifty years later that figure had expanded to 2 million. In
addition to a documented Muslim immigrant population made up primarily
of Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, there has been a large influx
of undocumented Arabs and Somalis whose numbers are disputed.

That these are true asylum seekers is suspect. They have been seen by
the thousands in mosques listening to anti-western Islamic rhetoric.
It is known some are taking lessons in making incendiary devices and
other weapons of terror. Even France, with Muslim problems of its
own, has warned Britain that many of those it is sheltering under the
asylum system are terrorists.

According to Frontpagemag.com, French intelligence services have even
provided the names of known terrorists living in Great Britain and
told the British which mosques these terrorists attend. Nothing has
been done and Britain's Muslim problem continues

Currently there are about 23 million Muslims residing in Europe. Of
course, these are not all fundamentalists. In all fairness in must be
noted that many Muslims have become westernized. By accepting western
values and lifestyle, they have also made themselves targets to the
more militant of Islamic factions. There is major conflict between the
new western approach to life and what those who claim to be Islamists
demand. Those Muslims who adopt western ways are also the enemy in
the eyes of fundamentalists.

Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something,
which baffles both Europeans and Americans. This hatred is a
rejection of western civilization, not only for what it is, but also
for the values it professes. Among the Islamists, those who promote
or accept this life style are enemies of God.

In Islam the war between good and evil has both political and military
dimensions. By their philosophy, according to Bernard Lewis writing
in Atlantic Monthly, "If the fighters in a war for Islam, the holy war
in the path of God, are fighting for God, it follows that their
opponents are fighting against God. And since God is in principle,
the sovereign, the supreme head of the Islamic state.then God as
sovereign commands the army." Lewis goes on to write, "The duty of
God's soldiers is to dispatch God's enemies as quickly as possible to
the place where God will chastise them, that is to say, the
afterlife."

Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and
the platform on which Muslims base their militancy. As this radical
version of the faith has grown, it has destroyed the culture of a
great people. Once leading the world in art, science and education,
militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a
Third World country. It has triggered more warfare than any faith.
As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the
world that do not involve Islam.

Muslims in America have found open hostility since the events of
September 11, 2001. Some leaders of the Islamic community have been
urging Muslims to return to the countries of their origin. Other
leaders have been urging the establishment of stronger Islamic
communities here in the United States. While traditional Islamic law
states Muslims should reside in their own lands, it also concedes that
Muslims may live in non-Muslim lands as long as they fulfill their
religious obligations.

Observers see the Muslim community as being very conflicted because of
the pronouncements by its own leadership. Increasing the conflict is
the fact that Muslims born in the United States are more open, more
tolerant and less sectarian. This creates divisions, which have
detrimental effects within these closed communities. Regardless of
being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar
views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States
foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims.

Viewed from the western perspective, Muslim immigration into the
United States is becoming a concern. Islam is the fastest growing
religion in the nation. In just over thirty years, immigration from
the mid-east has changed from being about 15% to 73% of immigrants
being Muslim. From a small number in the 1970s, the mid-eastern
immigrants have grown to an estimated 2.5 million.

Within this body of immigrants we have already found terror cells,
terror finance operations and those who support fundamentalist ideas.
We have also seen that that Muslim support of America's War on Terror
has been weak at best. There have been a few letters to newspapers,
sound bites on television news and interviews where Muslim leaders go
through the motions of expressing sorrow at the loss of 3,000 innocent
lives or words of encouragement of the people of America. Missing has
been any real expression of outrage at any terrorist act.

Now our own government, in an attempt to be politically correct says,
"We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terror!" A nation
cannot be at war with an outcome. Terror is an outcome of militant
Islam.

With all of these things unfolding, there is now even a movement to
modify language. We are being told that it is not a preaching of
Islam to hate. They even tell us that Islam really means "peace".
This is a new definition by any stretch. What Islam means is
"submission". It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission.

We cannot speak for those countries in Europe, but there is one thing
all Islamists should quickly learn about America - it doesn't submit to
anyone.


--
* See the REAL 'Religion of Peace', Islam, on this site - EXCELLENT
* http://www.mathematik.net/homepage/islam/islam.htm
* Translated: http://tinyurl.com/2ooqh

Words that ring true to more and more people.
.
User: "Arizona Bushwhacker"

Title: Re: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate? 25 May 2004 03:27:17 PM
"Gus" <em6624@klesing.com> wrote in message
news:c909in$q5e$1@news.eusc.inter.net...


ArKLyte_ <ArkLyte_@Now.Net> wrote in message
news:0j97b0hrp83at3mpqn1tkpvp1858rm74fm@4ax.com...


http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9131.shtml

Muslims - They Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?

Commentary by Tom Segal
May 25, 2004

"It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission. We cannot speak for those countries in Europe,
but there is one thing all Islamists should quickly learn about
America..it doesn't submit to anyone..."

Living next to the Texas-Mexico border gives one a different view of
life than is experienced by most Americans. On one side of the Rio
Grande are millions of Mexicans willing to risk anything to cross that
ribbon of muddy water. North of the riverbank is another population
made up of citizens, legal residents and undocumented workers.
Ethnically, 90% of this population is Hispanic.

If you remove the divisiveness of politics and ask people how they
view themselves or those around them, most will say they are
Americans. Many will say they are Texans. Few, if any, claim
allegiance to Mexico or any Latin American country.

The culture here is also unique. From food to festivals we all call
it Tex-Mex. The richest in culture, customs and traditions of both
nations have been blended into a way of life, which might seem strange
to some, but proves to be very rewarding for those of us who make our
homes in the Rio Grande Valley.

Now view this cultural assimilation by both Hispanic and Anglo along
the U.S. border with what exists in countries experiencing immigration
by Muslims.

France has seen a large Muslim immigration, primarily from Algeria,
Senegal and Mali. These people have never been totally accepted by the
French citizenry. The Muslim population is estimated at 4 to 5
million in a country of 60 million people.

The country has seen an explosion of mosques, with numbers now in
excess of 1,200. With a growing resentment toward the immigrants,
these mosques increase the anxiety about Muslims felt by the French
Christian community. The large number of young Muslims who claim no
allegiance to France, but instead claim to be Islamists further
heightens this anxiety.

France does have a radical-Muslim problem. This militant version of
Islam is not being imported, but is increasingly homegrown. It
includes not only Muslims on the fringe of French society, but
hundreds of highly educated and westernized French Muslims who are
becoming intoxicated with the holy-war ideology being preached
throughout western Europe. When asked, most will deny any involvement
or assimilation into French culture.

Muslim immigration to Germany has been primarily from Turkey. Since
1990 there has been an increase in Muslim asylum seekers from Iran,
Afghanistan and Pakistan. This has grown that immigrant population to
about 2.5 million.

In Germany, Muslim youth are following an Iranian concept, which is
known as "the new holy-war community of believers." It recognizes no
national or ethnic identity. It even shows distain for traditional
Islamic values. This new doctrine is one, which The Weekly Standard
calls," a belief that suicide and murder become sacred acts of
believers who want to bring about a purifying Apocalypse."

Holland has seen a thirty-year experiment in trying to develop a
tolerant multicultural society fail. Government officials claim their
worst mistake was to encourage Muslim children to speak Turkish,
Arabic or Berber in elementary school, instead of Dutch. The result.
850,000 Muslims who have failed to assimilate into the nation's
culture, import spouses from their home countries, are creating
militant enclaves, actively preach Jihad and work to built a terrorist
networks in this nation of only 16 million people.

Our most important ally Great Britain has not been immune to a growing
Muslim presence. In 1951 there were only 23,000 Muslims in the
country. Fifty years later that figure had expanded to 2 million. In
addition to a documented Muslim immigrant population made up primarily
of Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, there has been a large influx
of undocumented Arabs and Somalis whose numbers are disputed.

That these are true asylum seekers is suspect. They have been seen by
the thousands in mosques listening to anti-western Islamic rhetoric.
It is known some are taking lessons in making incendiary devices and
other weapons of terror. Even France, with Muslim problems of its
own, has warned Britain that many of those it is sheltering under the
asylum system are terrorists.

According to Frontpagemag.com, French intelligence services have even
provided the names of known terrorists living in Great Britain and
told the British which mosques these terrorists attend. Nothing has
been done and Britain's Muslim problem continues

Currently there are about 23 million Muslims residing in Europe. Of
course, these are not all fundamentalists. In all fairness in must be
noted that many Muslims have become westernized. By accepting western
values and lifestyle, they have also made themselves targets to the
more militant of Islamic factions. There is major conflict between the
new western approach to life and what those who claim to be Islamists
demand. Those Muslims who adopt western ways are also the enemy in
the eyes of fundamentalists.

Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something,
which baffles both Europeans and Americans. This hatred is a
rejection of western civilization, not only for what it is, but also
for the values it professes. Among the Islamists, those who promote
or accept this life style are enemies of God.

In Islam the war between good and evil has both political and military
dimensions. By their philosophy, according to Bernard Lewis writing
in Atlantic Monthly, "If the fighters in a war for Islam, the holy war
in the path of God, are fighting for God, it follows that their
opponents are fighting against God. And since God is in principle,
the sovereign, the supreme head of the Islamic state.then God as
sovereign commands the army." Lewis goes on to write, "The duty of
God's soldiers is to dispatch God's enemies as quickly as possible to
the place where God will chastise them, that is to say, the
afterlife."

Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and
the platform on which Muslims base their militancy. As this radical
version of the faith has grown, it has destroyed the culture of a
great people. Once leading the world in art, science and education,
militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a
Third World country. It has triggered more warfare than any faith.
As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the
world that do not involve Islam.

Muslims in America have found open hostility since the events of
September 11, 2001. Some leaders of the Islamic community have been
urging Muslims to return to the countries of their origin. Other
leaders have been urging the establishment of stronger Islamic
communities here in the United States. While traditional Islamic law
states Muslims should reside in their own lands, it also concedes that
Muslims may live in non-Muslim lands as long as they fulfill their
religious obligations.

Observers see the Muslim community as being very conflicted because of
the pronouncements by its own leadership. Increasing the conflict is
the fact that Muslims born in the United States are more open, more
tolerant and less sectarian. This creates divisions, which have
detrimental effects within these closed communities. Regardless of
being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar
views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States
foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims.

Viewed from the western perspective, Muslim immigration into the
United States is becoming a concern. Islam is the fastest growing
religion in the nation. In just over thirty years, immigration from
the mid-east has changed from being about 15% to 73% of immigrants
being Muslim. From a small number in the 1970s, the mid-eastern
immigrants have grown to an estimated 2.5 million.

Within this body of immigrants we have already found terror cells,
terror finance operations and those who support fundamentalist ideas.
We have also seen that that Muslim support of America's War on Terror
has been weak at best. There have been a few letters to newspapers,
sound bites on television news and interviews where Muslim leaders go
through the motions of expressing sorrow at the loss of 3,000 innocent
lives or words of encouragement of the people of America. Missing has
been any real expression of outrage at any terrorist act.

Now our own government, in an attempt to be politically correct says,
"We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terror!" A nation
cannot be at war with an outcome. Terror is an outcome of militant
Islam.

With all of these things unfolding, there is now even a movement to
modify language. We are being told that it is not a preaching of
Islam to hate. They even tell us that Islam really means "peace".
This is a new definition by any stretch. What Islam means is
"submission". It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission.

We cannot speak for those countries in Europe, but there is one thing
all Islamists should quickly learn about America - it doesn't submit to
anyone.


--
* See the REAL 'Religion of Peace', Islam, on this site - EXCELLENT
* http://www.mathematik.net/homepage/islam/islam.htm
* Translated: http://tinyurl.com/2ooqh


Words that ring true to more and more people.

So what has Bush done to seal America's borders
to protect us from the tidal wave of Muslims coming
to America? My guess is that Bush is doing almost
as much as he is in protecting our southern border from
illegal immigration from Mexico. Will Bush be announcing
a plan to create a guest worker program for Muslims
too???



.


User: "tooniron"

Title: Re: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate? 26 May 2004 03:56:27 AM
I don't agree that we have "muslim problem" in britain. Yes, we do
have large, and growing, islamic population - but that is not a
problem. When dealing with such large numbers there will always be
some problem cases, but on the whole the increased diversity has
improved Britain (financially as well as culturally).
Historically the immigration from the Indian subcontinent was
encouraged by state. The major muslim immigration to Britain started
post-WWII when large amounts of labour were required to help rebuild
the British economy. The vast majority of the incoming labour came
from former British Commonwealth coutries (India, Pakistan, West
Indies, etc). Included in the immigrants from the Indian subcontinent
were Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and others. Britain is now home to many
people who are 1st, 2nd,3rd and 4th generation immigrants from these
countries, and we have many thriving communities in our isles.
The problem in Britain is not a problem with immigration, it's a
problem with lack of education and tolerance in the native population
(we are a mongrel race part celtic, part angle, part jute, part
viking, part norman, part saxon, part roman, etc - we have a great and
proud history, based on diversity). The current cause celebre of the
Daily Mail demographic is the potentially increased immigration from
the new EC countries, twenty years ago it was the potentially
increased immigration from the Iberian countries.
As for Muslims wanting to convert all that stand in their way, we do
not have Muslims walking the streets trying to convert people. We do
however have people in the streets of cities quoting hellfire from the
bible, we have Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on doors, and recently
I've had countless visits from the "American Church of Jesus Christ"
wanting to save my soul. I don't care which fairy story you want to
believe (the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, Lord of the Rings, The
Hungry Caterpillar), but i'd rather not listen to your babblings on
the subject.
Cheers,
Chris
.

User: "abelincoln"

Title: Re: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate? 25 May 2004 05:28:36 PM
They immigrate, but will they assimilate?
that's the same question the indians asked.
you know the answer to that question......
.
User: "Jamo"

Title: Re: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate? 25 May 2004 05:53:28 PM
"abelincoln" <bushsucks@whitehouse.com> wrote in message
news:40b3c8a9$0$3147$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...

They immigrate, but will they assimilate?

that's the same question the indians asked.

you know the answer to that question......

The same questions and assumptions were posed when the Germans, Irish.
Italians, etc. etc. emigrated here at the turn of the 19/20 century. Lots of
fear & hatred mongering then.
.


User: "Comicboards"

Title: Re: Muslims Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate? 03 Aug 2004 10:34:48 PM
With the exception of war, there is no place in the Quran, where it is
written that unbelievers will be forced to convert. In fact no where in the
Quran does it state that the reason for war will be for conversion. The
only religion that has went to war for the sake of conversion is
Christianity.
--
Discuss Christianity, Islam etc.
http://www.comicboards.org/religion
"ArKLyte_" <ArkLyte_@Now.Net> wrote in message
news:0j97b0hrp83at3mpqn1tkpvp1858rm74fm@4ax.com...


http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9131.shtml

Muslims - They Immigrate, But Do They Assimilate?

Commentary by Tom Segal
May 25, 2004

"It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission. We cannot speak for those countries in Europe,
but there is one thing all Islamists should quickly learn about
America..it doesn't submit to anyone..."

Living next to the Texas-Mexico border gives one a different view of
life than is experienced by most Americans. On one side of the Rio
Grande are millions of Mexicans willing to risk anything to cross that
ribbon of muddy water. North of the riverbank is another population
made up of citizens, legal residents and undocumented workers.
Ethnically, 90% of this population is Hispanic.

If you remove the divisiveness of politics and ask people how they
view themselves or those around them, most will say they are
Americans. Many will say they are Texans. Few, if any, claim
allegiance to Mexico or any Latin American country.

The culture here is also unique. From food to festivals we all call
it Tex-Mex. The richest in culture, customs and traditions of both
nations have been blended into a way of life, which might seem strange
to some, but proves to be very rewarding for those of us who make our
homes in the Rio Grande Valley.

Now view this cultural assimilation by both Hispanic and Anglo along
the U.S. border with what exists in countries experiencing immigration
by Muslims.

France has seen a large Muslim immigration, primarily from Algeria,
Senegal and Mali. These people have never been totally accepted by the
French citizenry. The Muslim population is estimated at 4 to 5
million in a country of 60 million people.

The country has seen an explosion of mosques, with numbers now in
excess of 1,200. With a growing resentment toward the immigrants,
these mosques increase the anxiety about Muslims felt by the French
Christian community. The large number of young Muslims who claim no
allegiance to France, but instead claim to be Islamists further
heightens this anxiety.

France does have a radical-Muslim problem. This militant version of
Islam is not being imported, but is increasingly homegrown. It
includes not only Muslims on the fringe of French society, but
hundreds of highly educated and westernized French Muslims who are
becoming intoxicated with the holy-war ideology being preached
throughout western Europe. When asked, most will deny any involvement
or assimilation into French culture.

Muslim immigration to Germany has been primarily from Turkey. Since
1990 there has been an increase in Muslim asylum seekers from Iran,
Afghanistan and Pakistan. This has grown that immigrant population to
about 2.5 million.

In Germany, Muslim youth are following an Iranian concept, which is
known as "the new holy-war community of believers." It recognizes no
national or ethnic identity. It even shows distain for traditional
Islamic values. This new doctrine is one, which The Weekly Standard
calls," a belief that suicide and murder become sacred acts of
believers who want to bring about a purifying Apocalypse."

Holland has seen a thirty-year experiment in trying to develop a
tolerant multicultural society fail. Government officials claim their
worst mistake was to encourage Muslim children to speak Turkish,
Arabic or Berber in elementary school, instead of Dutch. The result.
850,000 Muslims who have failed to assimilate into the nation's
culture, import spouses from their home countries, are creating
militant enclaves, actively preach Jihad and work to built a terrorist
networks in this nation of only 16 million people.

Our most important ally Great Britain has not been immune to a growing
Muslim presence. In 1951 there were only 23,000 Muslims in the
country. Fifty years later that figure had expanded to 2 million. In
addition to a documented Muslim immigrant population made up primarily
of Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, there has been a large influx
of undocumented Arabs and Somalis whose numbers are disputed.

That these are true asylum seekers is suspect. They have been seen by
the thousands in mosques listening to anti-western Islamic rhetoric.
It is known some are taking lessons in making incendiary devices and
other weapons of terror. Even France, with Muslim problems of its
own, has warned Britain that many of those it is sheltering under the
asylum system are terrorists.

According to Frontpagemag.com, French intelligence services have even
provided the names of known terrorists living in Great Britain and
told the British which mosques these terrorists attend. Nothing has
been done and Britain's Muslim problem continues

Currently there are about 23 million Muslims residing in Europe. Of
course, these are not all fundamentalists. In all fairness in must be
noted that many Muslims have become westernized. By accepting western
values and lifestyle, they have also made themselves targets to the
more militant of Islamic factions. There is major conflict between the
new western approach to life and what those who claim to be Islamists
demand. Those Muslims who adopt western ways are also the enemy in
the eyes of fundamentalists.

Islamic fundamentalist hatred of all things western is something,
which baffles both Europeans and Americans. This hatred is a
rejection of western civilization, not only for what it is, but also
for the values it professes. Among the Islamists, those who promote
or accept this life style are enemies of God.

In Islam the war between good and evil has both political and military
dimensions. By their philosophy, according to Bernard Lewis writing
in Atlantic Monthly, "If the fighters in a war for Islam, the holy war
in the path of God, are fighting for God, it follows that their
opponents are fighting against God. And since God is in principle,
the sovereign, the supreme head of the Islamic state.then God as
sovereign commands the army." Lewis goes on to write, "The duty of
God's soldiers is to dispatch God's enemies as quickly as possible to
the place where God will chastise them, that is to say, the
afterlife."

Islam is more than religion. It is also the politics or Muslims and
the platform on which Muslims base their militancy. As this radical
version of the faith has grown, it has destroyed the culture of a
great people. Once leading the world in art, science and education,
militant Islam has reduced every land where it flourishes to that of a
Third World country. It has triggered more warfare than any faith.
As a quick exercise try to think of two or three wars raging in the
world that do not involve Islam.

Muslims in America have found open hostility since the events of
September 11, 2001. Some leaders of the Islamic community have been
urging Muslims to return to the countries of their origin. Other
leaders have been urging the establishment of stronger Islamic
communities here in the United States. While traditional Islamic law
states Muslims should reside in their own lands, it also concedes that
Muslims may live in non-Muslim lands as long as they fulfill their
religious obligations.

Observers see the Muslim community as being very conflicted because of
the pronouncements by its own leadership. Increasing the conflict is
the fact that Muslims born in the United States are more open, more
tolerant and less sectarian. This creates divisions, which have
detrimental effects within these closed communities. Regardless of
being U.S. born or immigrant, all Muslims in America share similar
views on international Muslim politics, the hypocrisy of United States
foreign policy, and negative media reports about Muslims.

Viewed from the western perspective, Muslim immigration into the
United States is becoming a concern. Islam is the fastest growing
religion in the nation. In just over thirty years, immigration from
the mid-east has changed from being about 15% to 73% of immigrants
being Muslim. From a small number in the 1970s, the mid-eastern
immigrants have grown to an estimated 2.5 million.

Within this body of immigrants we have already found terror cells,
terror finance operations and those who support fundamentalist ideas.
We have also seen that that Muslim support of America's War on Terror
has been weak at best. There have been a few letters to newspapers,
sound bites on television news and interviews where Muslim leaders go
through the motions of expressing sorrow at the loss of 3,000 innocent
lives or words of encouragement of the people of America. Missing has
been any real expression of outrage at any terrorist act.

Now our own government, in an attempt to be politically correct says,
"We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terror!" A nation
cannot be at war with an outcome. Terror is an outcome of militant
Islam.

With all of these things unfolding, there is now even a movement to
modify language. We are being told that it is not a preaching of
Islam to hate. They even tell us that Islam really means "peace".
This is a new definition by any stretch. What Islam means is
"submission". It is the objective of Islam to have all non-believers
submit. If they will not do so willingly, they will be forced into
submission.

We cannot speak for those countries in Europe, but there is one thing
all Islamists should quickly learn about America - it doesn't submit to
anyone.


--
* See the REAL 'Religion of Peace', Islam, on this site - EXCELLENT
* http://www.mathematik.net/homepage/islam/islam.htm
* Translated: http://tinyurl.com/2ooqh

.


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