Myths about guns are truly deadly



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 23 Oct 2005 08:15:46 PM
Object: Myths about guns are truly deadly
Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176
GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.
"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.
Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.
I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."
"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."
Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.
A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."
What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"
In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.
Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.
And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment — "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" — as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.
What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth —
born of experience — is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."
"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed — where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.

User: "monkeyhawk"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 23 Oct 2005 08:31:00 PM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -
born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."

Murder is illegal.
In spite of that, people get murdered every day.
Guess we ought to make it legal.
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 23 Oct 2005 11:18:20 PM
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -
born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."


Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?
"The simple truth - born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best
where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." -- Judge
Alex Kozinsk
I need my guns in case goons like you gain power.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 10:01:59 AM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com...

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?

Clearly if we ended the manufacture and importation of guns the numbers of
guns would go down and so would the murder rate.
That fact doesn't justify the banning of guns.
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 08:19:29 PM
In article <djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?

I guarantee the murder rate would go down substantially, if you got
all, or even most, of the guns out of civilians' (that includes
criminals) hands.
Of course it would not stop. People would still be stabbed,
run over, poisoned, strangled and beaten to death. But most of
those who are murdered are killed with guns, and it's just a
lot more work to kill people by stabbing, strangulation or
beating and frankly, the average criminal isn't that motivated.
Statistics show that most assaults do not involve guns.
But most homicides to involve guns. Thus a minority of the
assaults result in a majority of the deaths. Guns turn
many assaults that would not otherwise be deadly into murders.
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 10:17:16 PM
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:19:29 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?


I guarantee the murder rate would go down substantially, if you got
all, or even most, of the guns out of civilians' (that includes
criminals) hands.

Of course it would not stop. People would still be stabbed,
run over, poisoned, strangled and beaten to death. But most of
those who are murdered are killed with guns, and it's just a
lot more work to kill people by stabbing, strangulation or
beating and frankly, the average criminal isn't that motivated.

Statistics show that most assaults do not involve guns.
But most homicides to involve guns. Thus a minority of the
assaults result in a majority of the deaths. Guns turn
many assaults that would not otherwise be deadly into murders.

Not good enough.
"The same liberties that ensure a free society make the innocent
vulnerable to those who prevent rights and privileges and commit
senseless and cruel acts. Those precious liberties include free
speech, freedom to assemble, freedom of liberties, access to public
places, the right to bear arms and freedom from constant surveillance.
We are not willing to sacrifice these rights because of the acts of
maniacs." -- Harriet Miers
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 10:21:58 PM
In article <up8rl1d4jkbs9jkeh6q08vqv3d2uggk0g5@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:19:29 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?


I guarantee the murder rate would go down substantially, if you got
all, or even most, of the guns out of civilians' (that includes
criminals) hands.

Of course it would not stop. People would still be stabbed,
run over, poisoned, strangled and beaten to death. But most of
those who are murdered are killed with guns, and it's just a
lot more work to kill people by stabbing, strangulation or
beating and frankly, the average criminal isn't that motivated.

Statistics show that most assaults do not involve guns.
But most homicides to involve guns. Thus a minority of the
assaults result in a majority of the deaths. Guns turn
many assaults that would not otherwise be deadly into murders.


Not good enough.

Not good enough for what?
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 11:52:46 PM
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:21:58 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <up8rl1d4jkbs9jkeh6q08vqv3d2uggk0g5@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:19:29 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?


I guarantee the murder rate would go down substantially, if you got
all, or even most, of the guns out of civilians' (that includes
criminals) hands.

Of course it would not stop. People would still be stabbed,
run over, poisoned, strangled and beaten to death. But most of
those who are murdered are killed with guns, and it's just a
lot more work to kill people by stabbing, strangulation or
beating and frankly, the average criminal isn't that motivated.

Statistics show that most assaults do not involve guns.
But most homicides to involve guns. Thus a minority of the
assaults result in a majority of the deaths. Guns turn
many assaults that would not otherwise be deadly into murders.


Not good enough.

Not good enough for what?

Not good enough for me to give up my guns.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 25 Oct 2005 10:47:07 PM
In article <oferl1l6h8b29cr4o2g1osrk86kco4f0nj@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:21:58 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <up8rl1d4jkbs9jkeh6q08vqv3d2uggk0g5@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:19:29 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?


I guarantee the murder rate would go down substantially, if you got
all, or even most, of the guns out of civilians' (that includes
criminals) hands.

Of course it would not stop. People would still be stabbed,
run over, poisoned, strangled and beaten to death. But most of
those who are murdered are killed with guns, and it's just a
lot more work to kill people by stabbing, strangulation or
beating and frankly, the average criminal isn't that motivated.

Statistics show that most assaults do not involve guns.
But most homicides to involve guns. Thus a minority of the
assaults result in a majority of the deaths. Guns turn
many assaults that would not otherwise be deadly into murders.


Not good enough.

Not good enough for what?


Not good enough for me to give up my guns.

So you won't settle for less than a 100% reduction of the
murder rate, or you won't give them up even if it stops
murder entirely?
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 25 Oct 2005 11:33:55 PM
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:47:07 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <oferl1l6h8b29cr4o2g1osrk86kco4f0nj@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:21:58 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <up8rl1d4jkbs9jkeh6q08vqv3d2uggk0g5@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:19:29 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <djnol1peivm6b45fqhv2fl44q3ukbhr5sm@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:31:00 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

Murder is illegal.

In spite of that, people get murdered every day.

Guess we ought to make it legal.

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?


I guarantee the murder rate would go down substantially, if you got
all, or even most, of the guns out of civilians' (that includes
criminals) hands.

Of course it would not stop. People would still be stabbed,
run over, poisoned, strangled and beaten to death. But most of
those who are murdered are killed with guns, and it's just a
lot more work to kill people by stabbing, strangulation or
beating and frankly, the average criminal isn't that motivated.

Statistics show that most assaults do not involve guns.
But most homicides to involve guns. Thus a minority of the
assaults result in a majority of the deaths. Guns turn
many assaults that would not otherwise be deadly into murders.


Not good enough.

Not good enough for what?


Not good enough for me to give up my guns.


So you won't settle for less than a 100% reduction of the
murder rate, or you won't give them up even if it stops
murder entirely?

You will have to pry my gun from.........
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 26 Oct 2005 05:08:56 PM
In article <in1ul1pof69q46br1gtd10rkmtp76jto1u@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?

So your original question had no relevance. Why did you ask it?

If the government takes the guns of the people do you guarantee the
end to murder?

.









User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 09:59:45 AM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:sh4ol117i0iqbt4nghavaoprnmodvemfdk@4ax.com...

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

Same logic applies to the "war on drugs".
Stienbeck put it better - read Grapes of Wrath sometime.
BTW - Stossel must think his audience are pinheads - why else a line like
"First, criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them
"criminals.")"
Secondly, if the manufacture of guns was illegal in the USA we'd see the
numbers of guns and gun crimes drop dramatically. Guns are dangerous to have
around the house. People would be better off without them, but I don't want
the government banning guns - people ought to be able to spend their money
stupidly if they want (Like on pistols, pot or porn)
.

User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 23 Oct 2005 08:42:15 PM

Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at

least 700,000 times a year.
Remind me to duck.
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 08:08:07 PM
In article <sh4ol117i0iqbt4nghavaoprnmodvemfdk@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:


"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

Same goes for drugs, right?
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 10:14:29 PM
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:08:07 GMT, Hugh Gibbons <party@my.house.com>
wrote:

In article <sh4ol117i0iqbt4nghavaoprnmodvemfdk@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:


"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.


Same goes for drugs, right?

Absolutely. Prostitution, drugs or any commodity that's in demand will
find suppliers. That's why all this kind of stuff should be legal.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.


User: "Roger"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 06:46:01 AM
John Stossel?
What, no Michael Medved stories?
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:sh4ol117i0iqbt4nghavaoprnmodvemfdk@4ax.com...

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -
born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."


--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce

"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net

.

User: "PagCal"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 03:19:11 AM
Lets run time ahead a few years.
Cops now routinely wear back-scatter x-ray/micro-wave head-sets that see
through all clothing. As well, the technology has advanced to where they
can scan into cars for illegal guns as well.
Checkpoints have been expanded from airport terminals to, well, just
everywhere.
---
See what you've brought on with your stupid pop guns? A police state.
What good will a gun do you if you can't move it out of your house?
Captain Compassion wrote:

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment — "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" — as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth —
born of experience — is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed — where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."


.

User: ""

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 12:23:04 AM
OK I give up, can you tell us all what the number of homicides from
guns was the year the Brady Bill was signed and the subsequent 5 years?
Captain Compassion wrote:

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -
born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."


--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce

"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net

.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 01:16:34 AM
On 23 Oct 2005 22:23:04 -0700,
wrote:

OK I give up, can you tell us all what the number of homicides from
guns was the year the Brady Bill was signed and the subsequent 5 years?

Do your own work.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate.html


Captain Compassion wrote:

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -
born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."


--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 10:04:07 AM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6luol1lden31o428d6726re197uvn8p9bi@4ax.com...

On 23 Oct 2005 22:23:04 -0700,

wrote:

OK I give up, can you tell us all what the number of homicides from
guns was the year the Brady Bill was signed and the subsequent 5 years?

Do your own work.

Murder rate went down steadily under Clinton, but we don't know if that was
due to
- legal abortion reducing the numbers of unwanted children
- better economy and policies
- Brady Bill
Of course the "war on drugs" creates incentives to murder and the money to
finance only the best guns for gang members.
*sigh*
Expect no sanity in this lifetime on these issues.
.
User: "J.C."

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 10:40:49 AM
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HJ67f.19290$QE1.3237@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...


"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6luol1lden31o428d6726re197uvn8p9bi@4ax.com...

On 23 Oct 2005 22:23:04 -0700,

wrote:

OK I give up, can you tell us all what the number of homicides from
guns was the year the Brady Bill was signed and the subsequent 5 years?

Do your own work.


Murder rate went down steadily under Clinton, but we don't know if that

was

due to
- legal abortion reducing the numbers of unwanted children
- better economy and policies
- Brady Bill
Of course the "war on drugs" creates incentives to murder and the money to
finance only the best guns for gang members.
*sigh*
Expect no sanity in this lifetime on these issues.


There are an estimated 120 million gun owners in the US. How many times have
you been shot by one of them?
--
Some people call this Northeast Hell
We just call it South Texas
J.C.
All spam forwarded to:

.
User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 12:14:39 PM
"J.C." <jcsplace@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4g77f.18884$Qu4.12200@fe07.news.easynews.com...


"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HJ67f.19290$QE1.3237@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...


"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6luol1lden31o428d6726re197uvn8p9bi@4ax.com...

On 23 Oct 2005 22:23:04 -0700,

wrote:

OK I give up, can you tell us all what the number of homicides from
guns was the year the Brady Bill was signed and the subsequent 5 years?

Do your own work.


Murder rate went down steadily under Clinton, but we don't know if that

was

due to
- legal abortion reducing the numbers of unwanted children
- better economy and policies
- Brady Bill
Of course the "war on drugs" creates incentives to murder and the money
to
finance only the best guns for gang members.
*sigh*
Expect no sanity in this lifetime on these issues.



There are an estimated 120 million gun owners in the US. How many times
have
you been shot by one of them?

If you read my posts you ought to know that I am not for "gun bans" or "gun
control" in general.
I don't have a gun (yet) but I understand why people would want to own them,
and I don't see a compelling case for gun control on several counts.
1) Nothing short of a nationwide ban on gun manufacturing and importation
would alter the number of guns.
2) Not sure our nation is stable enough to trust the government with my
safety
3) I think the government behaves better in a nation with 120 million gun
owners. Look at all the trouble we have in Iraq - and the population is
heavily armed (more than the USA IMO). It's a lot harder to cow a population
when many of the people are armed.
Mind you
- I don't think most people are mature enough to trust with firearms
- I don't want a gun
but that's me - people can go and buy as many guns as they want and that's
fine, IMO.
Personally I think a lot of people who favor gun control live in cities -
out here in the country you see people using guns all the time, even kids
carrying rifles, so it's no big deal.
.

User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 11:40:46 AM

There are an estimated 120 million gun owners in the US. How many times have

you been shot by one of them?
Durst writes: "The number of gunshot deaths in Japan during the year
1995 was 17. That same year, the number of gunshot deaths in America
was around 40,000. All right! We're number one. Way to go! The rest of
the world is made up of pale knife wielding comfortable shoed wussies
when it comes to weapons."
.


User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 24 Oct 2005 08:21:34 PM
In article <HJ67f.19290$QE1.3237@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"abracadabra" <abra@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6luol1lden31o428d6726re197uvn8p9bi@4ax.com...

On 23 Oct 2005 22:23:04 -0700,

wrote:

OK I give up, can you tell us all what the number of homicides from
guns was the year the Brady Bill was signed and the subsequent 5 years?

Do your own work.


Murder rate went down steadily under Clinton, but we don't know if that was
due to
- legal abortion reducing the numbers of unwanted children
- better economy and policies
- Brady Bill

You forgot:
- the government setting a less-bad example
.




User: "Holliston Perni"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 25 Oct 2005 03:34:16 PM
The MOST dangerous myth is that the 2nd amendment is about hunting furry
little critters, or protection against street thugs. It's about protecting
your DEMOCRACY from totalitarians, like the ones who are even now trying to
take away our freedoms.
Hollis,
http://www.AmericanJunta.com
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:sh4ol117i0iqbt4nghavaoprnmodvemfdk@4ax.com...

Myths about guns are truly deadly
By JOHN STOSSEL
http://www.unionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=62176

GUNS are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are
very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill
people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President
Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference.
The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various
types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and
bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws
have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts.
"I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security
inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background
check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you
can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First,
criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.")
Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's
money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the
prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The
study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison
system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told
me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder
because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed
weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton.
His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of
terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to
carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not
one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as
criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot
her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I
could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who
had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived.
Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at
least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has
it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller,
interpreted the Second Amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being
necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to
keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" - as conferring a special
privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual
right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear
arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that
aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law
still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of
the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and
an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -
born of experience - is that tyranny thrives best where government
need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid
stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw
the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is
a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare
circumstances where all other rights have failed - where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who
protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no
one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies
may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get
to make only once."


--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce

"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
.
User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 25 Oct 2005 11:00:02 PM
In article <435e97c3$0$7145$b9f67a60@news.newsdemon.com>,
"Holliston Perni" <hperni@AmericanJunta.com> wrote:

The MOST dangerous myth is that the 2nd amendment is about hunting furry
little critters, or protection against street thugs. It's about protecting
your DEMOCRACY from totalitarians, like the ones who are even now trying to
take away our freedoms.

Hollis,
http://www.AmericanJunta.com

I think it's also a myth that an armed populace would be able to
stop totalitarians, if they control modern armed forces. In the
18th century, an armed populace with ordinary weapons such as one
might use for hunting was the equal of what real armies had, so
there was some prospect of the populace repelling an invasion or
putting down an insurrection. Now it's not so. If the enemy comes
at you with tanks and planes, you're screwed, even if you've got
an assault rifle. To make a dent, you'll need a rocket launcher.
Come to think of it, if every American had a rocket launcher and
a grenade launcher and was trained how to use them, we probably
wouldn't need to worry about invasions or totalitarian governments,
and we wouldn't need half the military we have now.
The police would have a hell of a time making arrests, though.
.
User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 26 Oct 2005 10:22:41 AM

Come to think of it, if every American had a rocket launcher and a grenade launcher and was trained how to use them, we probably wouldn't need to worry about invasions or totalitarian governments,

We don't need to worry about invasions now......US hasn't been attacked
in 200 years and the last to do it were the British. I'm not
anticipating anohter try.
Yet, the US military is constantly active. It is used to control the
world, and has nothing to with 'defending the US'..... that is 100%
scam.
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 26 Oct 2005 10:48:56 PM
On 26 Oct 2005 08:22:41 -0700, "Saggy" <nammalfmilf@aol.com> wrote:

Come to think of it, if every American had a rocket launcher and a grenade launcher and was trained how to use them, we probably wouldn't need to worry about invasions or totalitarian governments,


We don't need to worry about invasions now......US hasn't been attacked
in 200 years and the last to do it were the British. I'm not
anticipating anohter try.

Yet, the US military is constantly active. It is used to control the
world, and has nothing to with 'defending the US'..... that is 100%
scam.

In 1916 Mexican Revolutionary and Bandit Pancho Villa attacked
Columbus, New Mexico. During WWII the Japanese attacked and held the
Aleutian Islands.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 27 Oct 2005 09:53:51 AM

.In 1916 Mexican Revolutionary and Bandit Pancho Villa attacked Columbus, New Mexico. During WWII the Japanese attacked and held the Aleutian Islands.

No territories. No bandits. No boxcutters. Not only has no nation's
military attacked the US, I don't believe any nations has seriously
contemplated attacking the US. Yet we have been endlessly
propagandized that we need to spend zillions, to develop every
conceiveably weapon and then build more, to 'defend' ourselves. The US
and its weapons development has put the entire world's population at
risk. We need a military the size of Canada's, anything beyond that is
an army of agression and domination, which is exactly what we have.
.

User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 27 Oct 2005 06:10:10 PM
In article <s4j0m1l0j7q4nh57vfms138oghjprng2ok@4ax.com>,
Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On 26 Oct 2005 08:22:41 -0700, "Saggy" <nammalfmilf@aol.com> wrote:

Come to think of it, if every American had a rocket launcher and a
grenade launcher and was trained how to use them, we probably wouldn't
need to worry about invasions or totalitarian governments,


We don't need to worry about invasions now......US hasn't been attacked
in 200 years and the last to do it were the British. I'm not
anticipating anohter try.

Yet, the US military is constantly active. It is used to control the
world, and has nothing to with 'defending the US'..... that is 100%
scam.


In 1916 Mexican Revolutionary and Bandit Pancho Villa attacked
Columbus, New Mexico. During WWII the Japanese attacked and held the
Aleutian Islands.

Not to mention attacking Hawaii. But the attack on the Aleutians was
a diversion. Although it was hostile, this was in the context of an
ongoing war. The attack on Pearl Harbor was much more significant.
During the War of 1812-1814, the British invaded and burned Washington,
D.C. and occupied Maine. This was in response to the original American
invasion of Canada.
.
User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Myths about guns are truly deadly 27 Oct 2005 08:55:19 PM

..Not to mention attacking Hawaii.

Not to mention attacking Hawaii.

No territories. No bandits. No boxcutters.
But..............I'll confess I know almost nothing about
history...................but even I know that the Japanese objectives
didn't include invading and occupying the US.
What were their objecitves?
Knowing nothing as I do, I assume they were to get the US out of their
'backyard'... in particular, US military bases and the US navy?
Right? Wrong?
.







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