"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
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"Michael Legel" <mjlegel@verizon.net> wrote in message
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"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:T2xMe.22085$rp.4960@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

I now understand why you need the
protection provided by a union.

I suppose you could call it protection ... I prefer to think of it as job
security. The union provided a means for me (and many thousands of others)
to work a regular schedule and live very well without having to kiss
anybody's *****. Never took my work home or had a beeper or cell phone to
yank me back to work at all hours. Paid overtime for anything over the
regular schedule that I volunteered for. Paid holidays, vacation, personal
time, etc. Very good benefits and now retired after 30 years of work with
a good pension. I guess I can't understand why anyone would want to have
to bow to some manager to get a decent job when they don't have to. I
never had any qualms about speaking my mind at work because my livelihood
was not at the whim of some tyrant but determined by my skills and
seniority. The simple fact is that unions provide better pay, benefits and
working conditions than the same job in a non-union environment. And it
also provided better job security than any company job because the contract
provided there had to be cause to be fired. And refusing to laugh at the
boss's jokes would not be considered cause. I realize there are some
willing to sell themselves differently and are quite happy to do so. I have
no problem with that at all. I just don't care to hear all the union
put-downs from those who are not happy with having sold their souls to the
company.

I was a union member for many years and I am
quite aware of the benefits and the drawbacks.

However, that is not relevant to the question
I asked.

Perhaps not. I can't imagine a way to make your question relevant. It is
very difficult to relate different jobs and their pay scales. Do you believe
a garbage collector should receive more pay than a Registered Nurse?

How much is a school teacher "worth"? Personally I found most of the office > staff where I worked to be highly overpaid. I worked with several so-called
engineers who couldn't do basic trig problems or volume equations yet they
made significantly more money than others. I don't begrudge them their pay,
but at the same time I don't think they provide any production value to
warrant it. I figured they must have required higher pay to put up with the
daily boring meetings and weird flavor-of-the-month moral building concepts,
etc. Six-Sigma was taking Caterpillar by storm when I left and it will take a
while to top that particular ***** storm.

<rc022586@reinhardt.edu> wrote in message
news:1124294986.327715.124540@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Michael Legel wrote:

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:T2xMe.22085$rp.4960@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

I now understand why you need the
protection provided by a union.

I suppose you could call it protection ... I prefer to think of it as job
security.

Sounds more like favortism to me.

I suppose it would considering your obvious lack of understanding.

The union provided a means for me (and many thousands of others) to
work a regular schedule and live very well without having to kiss anybody's
*****. Never took my work home or had a beeper or cell phone to yank me back
to
work at all hours.

So you weren't made to do as much work as you would have without the
union. Nice dedication you got going there. Instead of you having to do
that, though, a scab would have to do it in your place and not get paid
more for it. Tell me how that's fair.

More ignorant *****. Another idiot who thinks employers are stupid enough
to allow workers to slack off just because they belong to a union. Fact is
the union busting scabs were rewarded with do-nothing jobs for selling their
souls to the company. Most of them were let go after a couple years ... once
they couldn't justify keeping the inexperienced boat anchors.

Paid overtime for anything over the regular schedule that I volunteered
for. > Paid holidays, vacation, personal time, etc. Very good benefits
and now

And why did you deserve all that? You obviously weren't as dedicated or
did as much work as a scab.

Again your stupidity shines. I wasn't the least dedicated, but I was the
fourth generation to work there and make Caterpillar one of the moste
profitable companies on the planet. I earned every penney of what I received.
The scabs simply filled spots on the floor until they were let go.

retired after 30 years of work with a good pension. I guess I can't
understand > why anyone would want to have to bow to some manager to get a
decent job when

You can't understand why someone would want to really earn the benefits
that you get for doing little.

You couldn't stand in my shadow for a day so don't tell me about "doing
little". I handled steel and iron construction equip. parts 8 hours a day,
every working day for 30 years. I doubt you would last a week.

they don't have to. I never had any qualms about speaking my mind at work

because my livelihood was not at the whim of some tyrant but determined

by my > skills and seniority.

What seniority? You mentioned all these benfits and extra pay you got
from being a unionite, but never said anything about being promoted.
Considering your lack of work ethic, I'd be hard pressed to believe you
were ever promoted.

Actually I turned down every promotion to the office because I couldn't be a
hypocrite and swallow the crap. I have a habit of speaking my mind. I was at
the top pay scale for union wages for 25 of those 30 years as a skilled
machinist, tool and die maker. You confuse work ethic with blind obedience.
I did my work well ... as good or better than anyone. I simply didn't take a
lot of ***** while doing it. Caterpillar provided me a job, they did not own
me. I defined my work ... it did not define me.

The simple fact is that unions provide better pay,benefits and working

conditions than the same job in a non-union environment. And it also

provided > better job security than any company job because the contract
provided there > had to be cause to be fired. And refusing to laugh at
the boss's jokes would > not be considered cause.

In otherwords, you got extra rewards that you didn't deserve because
you weren't willing to work hard for several years and work your way up
the ladder much less show your boss the respect he deserves for doing
just that.

As I have said before, I don't use "other words" ... I speak English and said
exactly what I meant to say. You, on the other hand, have no idea what you
are talking about so you resort to "other words." I worked hard for 30 years
at the top levels of research machining. I have handled more complex machine
parts and exotic metals than you can even dream about so save your sarcasm.

I gave every boss the respect he earned. If he treated me like you are acting > I simply ignored him until a real one came along ... and they always did. I > met very few bosses in the past 20 years who "earned" their job. They simply
showed up from college expecting instant respect. Forget it.

I realize there are some willing to sell themselves differently and are
quite > happy to do so. I have no problem with that at all. I just don't
care to hear > all the union put-downs from those who are not happy with
having sold their > souls to the company.

That has nothing to do with it. We complain about unions because all
the rhetoric they give about looking out for the little guy is a total
crock. Unions provide lazy bums with undeserved rewards as a means of
telling business owners and CEO's how to run their businesses and do
their jobs because they think that guys in those positions have a
certain amount of clout or power and they want that clout and power for
themselves. And if the business guys don't comply with their demands,
the unions threaten to go on strike (which nothing other than flat-out
extortion).

Unions are crooks. That's all they are. That's why they're all run by
the mafia. They steal from businesses.

You are welcome to your opinion ... but I will tell you it is only an
unsubstantiated opinion. If you spent some time in a union factory and then a
non-union one I think you might learn something. I suspect you would prefer
to shoot off you ignorant mouth instead.