| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Harry Hope" |
| Date: |
28 Aug 2004 05:14:49 PM |
| Object: |
National tickets - Military service |
The News and Observer
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1576662p-7770255c.html
Saturday, August 28, 2004
National tickets - Military service
REPUBLICANS
GEORGE W. BUSH:
Bush entered the Texas Air National Guard in May 1968.
After a year of training, he was obligated to report one weekend a
month at Houston's Ellington Air Force Base.
Bush flew part time with the Guard for two years until May 1972, when
he left for Alabama to work on a political campaign.
He applied for "equivalent service" with the Alabama National Guard,
but there is no official record of his service in Alabama.
Bush returned to Texas in November 1972, but there is no official
record that he performed required Guard drills during the next six
months.
He then returned for 36 days of active duty, fulfilling Guard demands.
In October 1973, Bush applied for and received an honorable discharge,
nearly eight months early, so he could attend Harvard Business School.
***** CHENEY:
Cheney requested and received five draft deferments during the Vietnam
War (between March 1963 and January 1966) and did not serve in the
military.
DEMOCRATS
JOHN KERRY :
Kerry enlisted in the Navy in 1966.
In 1967, he trained in San Francisco and reported for duty on the USS
Gridley, which spent time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam.
In 1968, Kerry requested duty in Vietnam.
He reported for duty in South Vietnam in November 1968 as officer in
charge of swift boat PCF-44. Kerry was involved in incursions into
enemy strongholds along rivers and canals and also transported troops
on reconnaissance missions.
In December 1968, Kerry was wounded in action and received a Purple
Heart.
He was wounded again in February 1969 and a week later was involved in
the incident that won him a Silver Star.
During a firefight the next month, Kerry pulled Army Lt. Jim Rassman
from a river and was again wounded, receiving his third Purple Heart
and a Bronze Star.
Kerry then requested reassignment and was sent to the U.S. Atlantic
Fleet in New York.
In January 1970, Kerry requested and received an early discharge.
JOHN EDWARDS:
John Edwards, who turned 18 in 1971, did not serve in the military.
_____________________________________________________
Harry
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| User: "InsuranceBroker" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
28 Aug 2004 06:34:11 PM |
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Subject: National tickets - Military service
From: Harry Hope
Date: 8/28/2004 6:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <eu02j01g0jpss1pj5u5qqtqbt4c6tm2d4i@4ax.com>
GEORGE W. BUSH:
Bush entered the Texas Air National Guard in May 1968.
After a year of training, he was obligated to report one weekend a
month at Houston's Ellington Air Force Base.
Bush flew part time with the Guard for two years until May 1972, when
he left for Alabama to work on a political campaign.
I do not believe that you were correct. Bush has not flight record and
apparently refused to take a physical upon completion of the flight school.
This means that Bush probably never solo flew a plane.
He applied for "equivalent service" with the Alabama National Guard,
but there is no official record of his service in Alabama.
The question has to be why would alabama take a grounded pilot? What what
would Bush do for Alabama. Now other unit would take a person unqualifed for
his mos.
Bush returned to Texas in November 1972, but there is no official
record that he performed required Guard drills during the next six
months.
***** CHENEY:
Cheney requested and received five draft deferments during the Vietnam
War (between March 1963 and January 1966) and did not serve in the
military.
BTW cheney has over $50,000,000 in his bank accounts. How did cheney save so
much money on a public servants salary?
Cheney only worked 4 years for halliburton at 1.2 million a year.
Doing Insurance business in the Garden State
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| User: "Docky Wocky" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
28 Aug 2004 07:40:46 PM |
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insurance broker sez:
"BTW cheney has over $50,000,000 in his bank accounts. How did cheney save
so
much money on a public servants salary?..."
_______________________________________
Ask McAuliffe.
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| User: "Bill Levinson" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
28 Aug 2004 05:26:30 PM |
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Harry Hope wrote:
The News and Observer
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1576662p-7770255c.html
Saturday, August 28, 2004
National tickets - Military service
DEMOCRATS
JOHN KERRY :
Kerry enlisted in the Navy in 1966.
In 1967, he trained in San Francisco and reported for duty on the USS
Gridley, which spent time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam.
In 1968, Kerry requested duty in Vietnam.
He reported for duty in South Vietnam in November 1968 as officer in
charge of swift boat PCF-44. Kerry
"committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers
have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I
conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine
guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only
weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in
the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare,
all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions..."
(http://www.stentorian.com/politics/genghis.html for free leaflet)
Upon returning home, Kerry gave the NVA for free what dozens of POWs
endured torture to avoid providing: confessions to war crimes (as
described above). http://www.stentorian.com/politics/vietcong.html for
another leaflet.
Hope this helps,
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/#china BREAKING SCANDAL. Sen.
Judicial Watch alleges, "John Kerry accepted laundered contributions for
his 1996 re-election campaign from the Communist Chinese government"
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| User: "General Urko" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
28 Aug 2004 06:46:21 PM |
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"Bill Levinson" <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in
Hope this helps,
--Bill
http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/4morewars.asp
hope this helps...
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| User: "Gary Forbis" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
28 Aug 2004 10:43:31 PM |
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Bill Levinson <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message news:<qE7Yc.2530$JT3.2460@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Harry Hope wrote:
The News and Observer
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1576662p-7770255c.html
Saturday, August 28, 2004
National tickets - Military service
DEMOCRATS
JOHN KERRY :
Kerry enlisted in the Navy in 1966.
In 1967, he trained in San Francisco and reported for duty on the USS
Gridley, which spent time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam.
In 1968, Kerry requested duty in Vietnam.
He reported for duty in South Vietnam in November 1968 as officer in
charge of swift boat PCF-44. Kerry
"committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers
have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I
conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine
guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only
weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in
the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare,
all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions..."
(http://www.stentorian.com/politics/genghis.html for free leaflet)
Upon returning home, Kerry gave the NVA for free what dozens of POWs
endured torture to avoid providing: confessions to war crimes (as
described above). http://www.stentorian.com/politics/vietcong.html for
another leaflet.
Hope this helps,
Yes, Free Fire Zones are contrary to the Geneva Conventions. It was
wrong for his command structure to require him to do what was against
the Geneva Convention and not give him the training to know it. It's
as if one's boss asks one to retrieve his coat from the closet only to
find out later it wasn't the boss's coat at all and one has engated
in theft.
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| User: "Bill Levinson" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
29 Aug 2004 09:43:57 AM |
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Gary Forbis wrote:
Bill Levinson <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message news:<qE7Yc.2530$JT3.2460@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Harry Hope wrote:
The News and Observer
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1576662p-7770255c.html
Saturday, August 28, 2004
National tickets - Military service
DEMOCRATS
JOHN KERRY :
Kerry enlisted in the Navy in 1966.
In 1967, he trained in San Francisco and reported for duty on the USS
Gridley, which spent time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam.
In 1968, Kerry requested duty in Vietnam.
He reported for duty in South Vietnam in November 1968 as officer in
charge of swift boat PCF-44. Kerry
"committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers
have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I
conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine
guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only
weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in
the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare,
all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions..."
(http://www.stentorian.com/politics/genghis.html for free leaflet)
Upon returning home, Kerry gave the NVA for free what dozens of POWs
endured torture to avoid providing: confessions to war crimes (as
described above). http://www.stentorian.com/politics/vietcong.html for
another leaflet.
Hope this helps,
Yes, Free Fire Zones are contrary to the Geneva Conventions. It was
wrong for his command structure to require him to do what was against
the Geneva Convention and not give him the training to know it. It's
as if one's boss asks one to retrieve his coat from the closet only to
find out later it wasn't the boss's coat at all and one has engated
in theft.
Big difference. One would expect a Navy LIEUTENANT to know which orders
are legal and which are not.
An NCO at Abu Ghraib was able to figure out that what was going on was
illegal, and he reported it to his chain of command.
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/#china BREAKING SCANDAL. Sen.
Judicial Watch alleges, "John Kerry accepted laundered contributions for
his 1996 re-election campaign from the Communist Chinese government"
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| User: "Gary Forbis" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
29 Aug 2004 06:45:03 PM |
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Bill Levinson <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message news:<NYlYc.3415$JT3.1051@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Gary Forbis wrote:
Free Fire Zones are contrary to the Geneva Conventions. It was
wrong for his command structure to require him to do what was against
the Geneva Convention and not give him the training to know it. It's
as if one's boss asks one to retrieve his coat from the closet only to
find out later it wasn't the boss's coat at all and one has engated
in theft.
Big difference. One would expect a Navy LIEUTENANT to know which orders
are legal and which are not.
Kerry wasn't the only Lieutenant particiapting in free fire zones.
Many who particiapted still don't accept they were breaking international
law. They consider themselves moral individuals and resent Kerry for
pointing out in 1971 what is now obvious to any who will but look.
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| User: "InsuranceBroker" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
29 Aug 2004 07:31:27 PM |
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Subject: Re: National tickets - Military service
From: (Gary Forbis)
Date: 8/29/2004 7:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <5a1238fe.0408291545.1b30b61f@posting.google.com>
Bill Levinson <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message
news:<NYlYc.3415$JT3.1051@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Gary Forbis wrote:
Free Fire Zones are contrary to the Geneva Conventions. It was
wrong for his command structure to require him to do what was against
the Geneva Convention and not give him the training to know it. It's
as if one's boss asks one to retrieve his coat from the closet only to
find out later it wasn't the boss's coat at all and one has engated
in theft.
Big difference. One would expect a Navy LIEUTENANT to know which orders
are legal and which are not.
Kerry wasn't the only Lieutenant particiapting in free fire zones.
Many who particiapted still don't accept they were breaking international
law. They consider themselves moral individuals and resent Kerry for
pointing out in 1971 what is now obvious to any who will but look.
I doubt that anyone really accepts the free fire zone rules. I think that free
fire zones were needed if one wanted to go home.
Doing Insurance business in the Garden State
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| User: "Gary Forbis" |
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| Title: Re: National tickets - Military service |
30 Aug 2004 07:11:06 AM |
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(InsuranceBroker) wrote in message news:<20040829203127.24672.00000024@mb-m01.aol.com>...
Subject: Re: National tickets - Military service
From: (Gary Forbis)
Date: 8/29/2004 7:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <5a1238fe.0408291545.1b30b61f@posting.google.com>
Bill Levinson <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message
news:<NYlYc.3415$JT3.1051@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Gary Forbis wrote:
Free Fire Zones are contrary to the Geneva Conventions. It was
wrong for his command structure to require him to do what was against
the Geneva Convention and not give him the training to know it. It's
as if one's boss asks one to retrieve his coat from the closet only to
find out later it wasn't the boss's coat at all and one has engated
in theft.
Big difference. One would expect a Navy LIEUTENANT to know which orders
are legal and which are not.
Kerry wasn't the only Lieutenant particiapting in free fire zones.
Many who particiapted still don't accept they were breaking international
law. They consider themselves moral individuals and resent Kerry for
pointing out in 1971 what is now obvious to any who will but look.
I doubt that anyone really accepts the free fire zone rules. I think
that freefire zones were needed if one wanted to go home.
So you believe it is OK to break the rules of war if expedient? If one
is allowed to break the rules then where does it stop? The victor
shouldn't be able to say which rules apply and which don't.
I heard a guy on NPR espousing the notion that those accused of being
illegal combatants shouldn't have the same legal rights as legal
combatants who shouldn't have the same legal rights as citizens.
This notion is all mixed up even though this administration supports it.
The legal system is there to protect the innocent among the accused
not the guilty.
Rules must apply everywhere and always if they are to mean anything.
That one's enemies break the rules is no excuse.
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| User: "sam fisher" |
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| Title: Both Kerry and Bush are rich boys,who had special treatment during Vietnam |
28 Aug 2004 06:42:12 PM |
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but at least Kerry has a shred of decency left in him.
Every power ever involved in a war abroad was involved in war crimes: the
greeks in the middle east, the romans in Germania, the ottomans in armenia,
the British in Messopotamia, the gremans in russia, the russians in eastern
europe and afghanistan and the US in the carrebian and latin america. To
deny that a foreign war is a ***** is missing the point of this type of war:
it's about who's better at hurting indigenous populations to the point where
they accept your rule and don't rebel too much.
Rebelions are expensive for the ruling class, they result in decreased rate
of production and lost profits for those who loot the natural resources. So
the goal of "stability" requires unusually cruel treatment of mostly
civilian populations, ow you might have "problems" down the road simply
because people would like to live in SELF DETERMINATION.
"Shock and Awe" means dropping firebombs on Dresden, nukes on Hiroshima and
in general it translates into gored, charred bodies of children and women
with heads and limbs blown off, the stench of decomposing flesh, and dogs
eating out of human remains on abandoned streets. It has nothing to do
with "smart bombs", technology and "smart strategy", as blissfully ignorant
US civilians are brainwashed to think.
Once everyday people get off their fat asses and go to fight one of these
wars in the 1st line they usually come home outraged at their government
that is if they have a shred of humanity left in them. That's part of the
reason I don't think we'll have the draft: the neocons rather bankrupt this
country than allow average Joe to see the crimes they are involved in his
name, but I might be wrong...usually you have a couple years before that
happens.
http://www.npr.org/features/columns/column.php?columnId=3874942&wfId=3874969
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/25/1410215
AMY GOODMAN: Well, one of the things that he is being most attacked for, and
I mean, it's along two.in two areas, one is his own record, and the other is
these allegations of atrocities. Can you talk about what you yourself
found--your team of reporters--at The Toledo Blade after this.what.two-year
investigation?
MICHAEL SALLAH: Right. What we found, essentially was that there was a unit,
very small, mobile platoon known as Tiger Force that was unleashed into the
central highlands in Vietnam in 1967. They dangerously and very violently
lost control. This wasn't fog of war stuff. This was where they went into
villages and premeditatedly executed--murdered men, women and children at
random. They cut of off their ears. There was body mutilation. They cut off
the head of an infant. They routinely saw women and children hide in bunkers
and they threw in grenades. This went on and on unabated for seven months
from May through November of 1967. The Army launched a four-and-a-half year
investigation between '71 and '75, substantiated, that is, they developed
probable cause in about 20 war crimes involving 18 soldiers, multiple
victims. Untold hundreds. Then, quickly and then very systematically shut
the case down and concealed it. It was buried in the archives of the Army
for the last 36 years until we were able to get rare classified documents
about this case and we continued to press for more records, the Army said
no, we were able to get them, regardless. And in addition, we interviewed
more than 100 members off and on who rotated in and out of Tiger Force
during that period. The atrocities are well documented. They're well known.
They're not in dispute.
"Bill Levinson" <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message
news:qE7Yc.2530$JT3.2460@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Harry Hope wrote:
The News and Observer
http://newsobserver.com/news/story/1576662p-7770255c.html
Saturday, August 28, 2004
National tickets - Military service
DEMOCRATS
JOHN KERRY :
Kerry enlisted in the Navy in 1966.
In 1967, he trained in San Francisco and reported for duty on the USS
Gridley, which spent time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam.
In 1968, Kerry requested duty in Vietnam.
He reported for duty in South Vietnam in November 1968 as officer in
charge of swift boat PCF-44. Kerry
"committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers
have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I
conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine
guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only
weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in
the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare,
all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions..."
(http://www.stentorian.com/politics/genghis.html for free leaflet)
Upon returning home, Kerry gave the NVA for free what dozens of POWs
endured torture to avoid providing: confessions to war crimes (as
described above). http://www.stentorian.com/politics/vietcong.html for
another leaflet.
Hope this helps,
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/#china BREAKING SCANDAL. Sen.
Judicial Watch alleges, "John Kerry accepted laundered contributions for
his 1996 re-election campaign from the Communist Chinese government"
.
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