There is no known cure for HIV/AIDS, does that
mean that defenseless children should be used as
guinea pigs?

The drugs that are being administered to them,
cause them to become very sick, and when those
drugs are stopped, the kids recover from the
symptoms caused by these drugs.

If and when Glaxo Kline discovers a cure for HIV/AIDS
or at least a way to slow it down, will these kids
get the drugs for free or will Glaxo Kline have a gold
mine on their hands?
Will Glaxo Kline stockholders be happy while
these kids are rotting in their graves?

Why subject these children to this type of Nazi Like
experiments?

Menegle was stopped, although far too late,
Glaxo Kline should be stopped from using kids as
guinea pigs as well.

Notice they are not using the kids of the elite for
these experiments, they dare not.


"LJ" <laremoDELETE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Vpjxd.682708$mD.560477@attbi_s02...

Ok, now that you've used the Nazi card and the race card and
copied/pasted other peoples' work, why don't you propose a better
solution rather than just lash out? Do you think these HIV+ kids be left
to their own devices? Should their loved ones be left to provide the care
they need? Should they just be left to die? My understanding is that
there is no know cure for HIV therefore any treatment is more-or-less
experimental. If Glaxo withheld these potentially useful medications
from these same kids, some other loudmouth just like you would acuse them
of being racially motivated. Until we beat HIV/AIDS and Cancer and Ataxia
and a myriad of other diseases people are going to suffer and people are
going to try to find cures.

"torresD" <torresd30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oyaxd.3876$yK.1687@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

"LJ" <laremoDELETE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AW7xd.260108$HA.138841@attbi_s01...

Aparently you know nothing about newsroups
A) It's rude to crosspost to a bunch of groups.
You may be interested in all
the subjects involved, but all of the subscribers of the groups may not
be interested in all of the responses your post may generate.
B) More importanly, you don't bring up Nazis until at least the third
or fourth iteration. The mere mention of Nazis signals that the post
has run its course and needs to be allowed to die

Are these kids just the wrong skin color, for you to care?
They aren't white enough, not blue eyed enough,
they are just poor, black and brown, so you look the other
way and get annoyed, cause since they are minorities,
that's okay?

Didn't the Nazi's conduct horrendous experiments
on human beings deemed to be society's rejects,
for the benefit of society's elite?


These children are going to be absolutely miserable.

They're going to have cramps, diarrhoea
and their joints are going to swell up.
They're going to roll around the ground
and you can't touch them."

He went on to describe some of the drugs -
supplied by major drug manufacturers
including Glaxo SmithKline - as "lethal".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/4038375.stm
HIV positive children and their
loved ones have few rights if
they choose to battle with social
work authorities in New York City.


Jacklyn Hoerger worked at
the Incarnation Children's
Center

Jacklyn Hoerger's job was to treat
children with HIV at a New York
children's home.

But nobody had told her that the
drugs she was administering were
experimental and highly toxic.

"We were told that if they were vomiting,
if they lost their ability to walk,
if they were having diarrhoea,
if they were dying,

then all of this was because
of their HIV infection."

In fact it was the drugs that
were making the children ill and
the children had been enrolled on
the secret trials without their
relatives' or guardians' knowledge.

As Jacklyn would later discover,
those who tried to take the children
off the drugs risked losing them into care.

The BBC asked the Alliance for
Human Research Protection about
their view on the drug trials.


Spokesperson Vera Sherav said:

"They tested these highly experimental drugs.
Why didn't they provide the children with
the current best treatment? That's the question we have.

"Why did they expose
them to risk and pain,
when they were helpless?

"Would they have done those
experiments with their own
children?

I doubt it."

Power and authority

When I first heard the story of the "guinea pig kids",

I instinctively refused to believe that it
could be happening in any civilised country,
particularly the United States,

where the propensity for legal
action normally ensures a high
level of protection.

But that, as I was to discover,
was central to the choice of
location and subjects,

because to be free in New York City,
you need money.


I've had many ACS case workers tell me:
'We're ACS, we can do whatever we want'

David Lansner, family lawyer

Over 23,000 of the city's children
are either in foster care or independent
homes run mostly by religious organisations
on behalf of the local authorities and almost
99% are black or hispanic.

Some of these kids come from "crack"
mothers and have been infected with
the HIV virus.

For over a decade,
this became the target group
for experimentation involving
cocktails of toxic drugs.

Central to this story is the
city's child welfare department,
the Administration for Children's
Services (ACS).

The ACS, as it is known,
was granted far-reaching powers
in the 1990s by then-Republican
Mayor Rudi Giuliani,

after a particularly horrific child killing.

Within the shortest of periods,
literally thousands of children
were being rounded up and placed
in foster care.

"They're essentially out of control,"
said family lawyer David Lansner.

"I've had many ACS case workers tell me:

'We're ACS, we can do whatever we want'
and they usually get away with it."

Having taken children into care,
the ACS was now, effectively,
their parent and could do just
about anything it wished with them.

'Serious side-effects'

One of the homes to which HIV positive
children were taken was the Incarnation
Children's Center, a large,

expensively refurbished
red-bricked building set
back from the sidewalk in
a busy Harlem street.

It is owned by the Catholic church and
when we attempted to talk to officials
at Incarnation we were referred to an
equally expensive Manhattan public
relations company,

which then refused to comment
on activities within the home.


Dr Rasnick is internationally renowned
for his work on numerous diseases,
including cancer

Hardly surprising,
when we already knew that highly
controversial and secretive drug
experiments had been conducted on
orphans and foster children as
young as three months old.

We asked Dr David Rasnick,
visiting scholar at the University of Berkeley,
for his opinion on some of the experiments.

He said:

"We're talking about serious,
serious side-effects.

These children are going to be absolutely miserable.

They're going to have cramps, diarrhoea
and their joints are going to swell up.
They're going to roll around the ground
and you can't touch them."

He went on to describe some of the drugs -
supplied by major drug manufacturers
including Glaxo SmithKline - as "lethal".

When approached by the BBC,
Glaxo SmithKline said such trials
must have stringent standards and
be conducted strictly in accordance
with local regulations.

Battle of wills

At Incarnation,
if a child refused to take the medicines offered,
he or she was force-fed through a peg-tube inserted
into the stomach.

Critics of the trials say children
should have been volunteered to test
drugs by their parents.


Regina Mousa's grandson (left)
is HIV positive and in a foster
home

When Jacklyn Hoerger later fostered two
children from the home where she used to
work with a view to adopting them,
she discovered just how powerful
the ACS was.

"It was a Saturday morning and they
had come a few times unannounced,"

she said.

"So when I opened the door I invited
them in and they said that this wasn't
a happy visit.

At that point they told me that
they were taking the children away.

I was in shock."

Jacklyn, a trained paediatric nurse,
had taken the fatal step of taking
the children off the drugs,

which had resulted in an immediate
boost to their health and happiness.

As a result she was branded
a child abuser in court.

She has not been allowed
to see the children since.

In the film Guinea Pig Kids,
we follow Jacklyn's story and that
of other parents or guardians who fear
for the lives of their loved ones.

We talk to a child who spent years
on drugs programmes which made them
and their friends ill,

and we discover that Incarnation
is not an isolated case.

The experiments continue to be
carried out on the poor children
of New York City.

Guinea Pig Kids was broadcast on Tuesday,
30 November, 2004, at 1930 GMT on BBC Two (UK).