NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Harry Hope"
Date: 25 Apr 2007 06:23:28 PM
Object: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal
In favor of a troop deadline
The poll — which was taken of 1,004 adults from April 20-23, and which
has an overall margin of error of 3.1 percentage points — comes as
Congress considers an supplemental spending bill that would begin
withdrawing troops from Iraq no later than Oct. 1, with the goal of
having all combat troops leave by March 2008.
The legislation hits the House floor on Wednesday, and heads to the
Senate on Thursday.
Bush opposes the bill and has threatened to veto it.
"They know I'm going to veto a bill containing these provisions, and
they know that my veto will be sustained," the president said on
Tuesday.
"But instead of fashioning a bill I could sign, the Democratic leaders
chose to further delay funding our troops, and they chose to make a
political statement. That's their right. But it is wrong for our
troops and it's wrong for our country."
Yet the poll shows that 56 percent say they agree more with the
Democrats in Congress who want to set a deadline for troop withdrawal,
versus the 37 percent who say they agree with Bush that there
shouldn't be a deadline.
What's more, 55 percent believe that victory in Iraq isn't possible.
And 49 percent say the situation in Iraq has gotten worse in the last
three months since Bush announced his so-called troop surge.
Thirty-seven percent say the situation has stayed about the same, and
just 12 percent think it has improved.
...........................................................................................................
The pessimism about the war has also likely contributed to the
country's overall sour mood.
According to the poll, only 22 percent believe the country is on the
right track.
That's the lowest number on this question since October 1992, when
Bush father's was running for a second term -- and lost.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18312789
Americans siding with Dems against Bush
NBC/WSJ poll: Skepticism on Iraq policies reflected in 2008 candidates

Mark Murray
Deputy Political Director
WASHINGTON -
As the Democrat-controlled Congress and the White House clash over an
Iraq spending bill, with President Bush vowing to veto it because it
contains withdrawal deadlines, the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal
poll finds that a solid majority of Americans side with the Democrats.
In addition, a nearly equal number believe that victory in Iraq isn't
possible, and about only one in eight think the war has improved in
the three months since Bush called for a troop increase there.
"They don't see the surge working," says Democratic pollster Peter D.
Hart, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Neil Newhouse.
Instead, they are saying "we need to get out."
____________________________________________________
So what's the question?
Harry
.

User: "XTS"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 25 Apr 2007 09:48:59 PM
"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:fnov23tgkqs0oif8cpmco4gd4h9jc806c4@4ax.com...


In favor of a troop deadline

The poll - which was taken of 1,004 adults from April 20-23, and which
has an overall margin of error of 3.1 percentage points - comes as
Congress considers an supplemental spending bill that would begin
withdrawing troops from Iraq no later than Oct. 1, with the goal of
having all combat troops leave by March 2008.

The legislation hits the House floor on Wednesday, and heads to the
Senate on Thursday.

Bush opposes the bill and has threatened to veto it.

"They know I'm going to veto a bill containing these provisions, and
they know that my veto will be sustained," the president said on
Tuesday.

"But instead of fashioning a bill I could sign, the Democratic leaders
chose to further delay funding our troops, and they chose to make a
political statement. That's their right. But it is wrong for our
troops and it's wrong for our country."

Yet the poll shows that 56 percent say they agree more with the
Democrats in Congress who want to set a deadline for troop withdrawal,
versus the 37 percent who say they agree with Bush that there
shouldn't be a deadline.

What's more, 55 percent believe that victory in Iraq isn't possible.

And 49 percent say the situation in Iraq has gotten worse in the last
three months since Bush announced his so-called troop surge.

Thirty-seven percent say the situation has stayed about the same, and
just 12 percent think it has improved.


.............................................................................
...............................


The pessimism about the war has also likely contributed to the
country's overall sour mood.

According to the poll, only 22 percent believe the country is on the
right track.

That's the lowest number on this question since October 1992, when
Bush father's was running for a second term -- and lost.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18312789

Americans siding with Dems against Bush

NBC/WSJ poll: Skepticism on Iraq policies reflected in 2008 candidates

Mark Murray
Deputy Political Director

WASHINGTON -

As the Democrat-controlled Congress and the White House clash over an
Iraq spending bill, with President Bush vowing to veto it because it
contains withdrawal deadlines, the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal
poll finds that a solid majority of Americans side with the Democrats.

In addition, a nearly equal number believe that victory in Iraq isn't
possible, and about only one in eight think the war has improved in
the three months since Bush called for a troop increase there.

"They don't see the surge working," says Democratic pollster Peter D.
Hart, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Neil Newhouse.
Instead, they are saying "we need to get out."

____________________________________________________

So what's the question?

Harry

The American people know persuing bush's mis-adventure in Iraq is a costly
effort in futility. To many lives, to much destruction, too much world
hatred towards America for it's continuation, and way too much in taxpayer
money. The American people also know the war is only going on now to try
and preserve a legacy for bush who doesn't want to lose a war, or 2 wars,
that he started. They know he wants it to drive into the next presidency.
And we all know, that is no reason for war.
One man's ego, one man's greed, or one man's legacy is not worth the life or
limb of even one other man. Bush can go to Iraq, don a uniform like he did
on the Carrier Lincoln, and go out on a combat million, and give his life
for his cause, and then end the war, and that would be his finest legacy,
that he gave his life for his cause, and did not risk the life of anyone
else.
That would give him his place in history as the war hero he has up to now
had to fake, since his life has been that of just small, rich little mommy's
boy with the heart of a Coward.
.
User: "Tag Heuer"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 10:42:57 PM
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:48:59 -0400, "XTS" <xts@woh.rr.com> wrote:

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:fnov23tgkqs0oif8cpmco4gd4h9jc806c4@4ax.com...
In favor of a troop deadline
The poll - which was taken of 1,004 adults from April 20-23, and which
has an overall margin of error of 3.1 percentage points - comes as
Congress considers an supplemental spending bill that would begin
withdrawing troops from Iraq no later than Oct. 1, with the goal of
having all combat troops leave by March 2008.
The legislation hits the House floor on Wednesday, and heads to the
Senate on Thursday.
Bush opposes the bill and has threatened to veto it.
"They know I'm going to veto a bill containing these provisions, and
they know that my veto will be sustained," the president said on
Tuesday.
"But instead of fashioning a bill I could sign, the Democratic leaders
chose to further delay funding our troops, and they chose to make a
political statement. That's their right. But it is wrong for our
troops and it's wrong for our country."
Yet the poll shows that 56 percent say they agree more with the
Democrats in Congress who want to set a deadline for troop withdrawal,
versus the 37 percent who say they agree with Bush that there
shouldn't be a deadline.
What's more, 55 percent believe that victory in Iraq isn't possible.
And 49 percent say the situation in Iraq has gotten worse in the last
three months since Bush announced his so-called troop surge.
Thirty-seven percent say the situation has stayed about the same, and
just 12 percent think it has improved.

............................................................................
..............................

The pessimism about the war has also likely contributed to the
country's overall sour mood.
According to the poll, only 22 percent believe the country is on the
right track.
That's the lowest number on this question since October 1992, when
Bush father's was running for a second term -- and lost.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18312789
Americans siding with Dems against Bush
NBC/WSJ poll: Skepticism on Iraq policies reflected in 2008 candidates
Mark Murray
Deputy Political Director
WASHINGTON -
As the Democrat-controlled Congress and the White House clash over an
Iraq spending bill, with President Bush vowing to veto it because it
contains withdrawal deadlines, the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal
poll finds that a solid majority of Americans side with the Democrats.
In addition, a nearly equal number believe that victory in Iraq isn't
possible, and about only one in eight think the war has improved in
the three months since Bush called for a troop increase there.
"They don't see the surge working," says Democratic pollster Peter D.
Hart, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Neil Newhouse.
Instead, they are saying "we need to get out."
____________________________________________________
So what's the question?
Harry

The American people know persuing bush's mis-adventure in Iraq is a costly
effort in futility. To many lives, to much destruction, too much world
hatred towards America for it's continuation, and way too much in taxpayer
money. The American people also know the war is only going on now to try
and preserve a legacy for bush who doesn't want to lose a war, or 2 wars,
that he started. They know he wants it to drive into the next presidency.

But . . . but, the Dow hit the 13 grand point yesterday ;-)

And we all know, that is no reason for war.

Objectively speaking, "war" is an integral part of this civilization
and those of the past . . . Please consider Sun-Tzu.

One man's ego, one man's greed, or one man's legacy is not worth the life or
limb of even one other man. Bush can go to Iraq, don a uniform like he did
on the Carrier Lincoln, and go out on a combat million, and give his life
for his cause, and then end the war, and that would be his finest legacy,
that he gave his life for his cause, and did not risk the life of anyone
else.

It's great to pass thread with you again Mr. X . . . Specifically, I
just re-read a chapter or two from Woodward's 'State of Denial,' and
that involving the selection of the Chairman of the JCS just before
9/11. Disaster was frought from the very beginnings of this
Administration, however and again, objectively speaking 'hindsight is
indeed 20/20.' Nevertheless, speaking from experience and having
honorably served, it was a ***** shame (by Woodward's account) how
the Aegis of this nation's defense came to pass in the selection of a
leader of substance, over a leader of appearance.
This whole war in Iraq was based on "appearance" with a whole lot of
propaganda, lies, etc. and the UN/US effort in Afghanistan an
atonement for this Administration's failure with specific regard to
Tora Bora. Yet, and to this point, and with our troops and civilian
Iraqis dying en masse in a clear religious sectarian civil war, there
are no black-and-white, yes and no answers nor solutions as the Bush
Administration would delusionally like to believe and especially in
the context of Bush's anticipated bigoted "veto" in the coming hours,
if not day or two.
My whole take to this point, as I watch the Da Vinci Code for the nth
time, what the world (if not America) is now in the grip of is the
battle of of not so much a civilization struggling to move forward,
but humankind which is at a "turning point" involving will and those
who are attempting desperately to find some degree of consensus, or
even understanding of the confusion, if not insanity that has gripped
the most powerful nation in this epoch. And the 'will' of the
American people shall IMO pervail. Not so much in the legislative
halls of Congress, nor before some international court of justice . .
.. But that involving karma. For I believe that things in life happen
for good reason . . . And Bush, for all his fault(s) was all for the
good and which we ALL will benefit from.

That would give him his place in history as the war hero he has up to now
had to fake, since his life has been that of just small, rich little mommy's
boy with the heart of a Coward.

Objectively speaking, and in a word he is / was certainly, "unfit," as
I am keenly following his selection for "War Czar."
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/
.
User: "XTS"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 27 Apr 2007 01:16:34 AM
"Tag Heuer" <tagheuerblog@gmail.dot.com> wrote in message
news:47s233l12gkptg92o2inubn9f1gt77aucc@4ax.com...

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:48:59 -0400, "XTS" <xts@woh.rr.com> wrote:

"Harry Hope" <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message

news:fnov23tgkqs0oif8cpmco4gd4h9jc806c4@4ax.com...


In favor of a troop deadline


The poll - which was taken of 1,004 adults from April 20-23, and which
has an overall margin of error of 3.1 percentage points - comes as
Congress considers an supplemental spending bill that would begin
withdrawing troops from Iraq no later than Oct. 1, with the goal of
having all combat troops leave by March 2008.


The legislation hits the House floor on Wednesday, and heads to the
Senate on Thursday.


Bush opposes the bill and has threatened to veto it.


"They know I'm going to veto a bill containing these provisions, and
they know that my veto will be sustained," the president said on
Tuesday.


"But instead of fashioning a bill I could sign, the Democratic leaders
chose to further delay funding our troops, and they chose to make a
political statement. That's their right. But it is wrong for our
troops and it's wrong for our country."


Yet the poll shows that 56 percent say they agree more with the
Democrats in Congress who want to set a deadline for troop withdrawal,
versus the 37 percent who say they agree with Bush that there
shouldn't be a deadline.


What's more, 55 percent believe that victory in Iraq isn't possible.


And 49 percent say the situation in Iraq has gotten worse in the last
three months since Bush announced his so-called troop surge.


Thirty-seven percent say the situation has stayed about the same, and
just 12 percent think it has improved.




...........................................................................

..

..............................


The pessimism about the war has also likely contributed to the
country's overall sour mood.


According to the poll, only 22 percent believe the country is on the
right track.


That's the lowest number on this question since October 1992, when
Bush father's was running for a second term -- and lost.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18312789


Americans siding with Dems against Bush


NBC/WSJ poll: Skepticism on Iraq policies reflected in 2008 candidates


Mark Murray
Deputy Political Director
WASHINGTON -


As the Democrat-controlled Congress and the White House clash over an
Iraq spending bill, with President Bush vowing to veto it because it
contains withdrawal deadlines, the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal
poll finds that a solid majority of Americans side with the Democrats.


In addition, a nearly equal number believe that victory in Iraq isn't
possible, and about only one in eight think the war has improved in
the three months since Bush called for a troop increase there.


"They don't see the surge working," says Democratic pollster Peter D.
Hart, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Neil Newhouse.
Instead, they are saying "we need to get out."


____________________________________________________


So what's the question?


Harry


The American people know persuing bush's mis-adventure in Iraq is a

costly

effort in futility. To many lives, to much destruction, too much world
hatred towards America for it's continuation, and way too much in

taxpayer

money. The American people also know the war is only going on now to try
and preserve a legacy for bush who doesn't want to lose a war, or 2 wars,
that he started. They know he wants it to drive into the next presidency.


But . . . but, the Dow hit the 13 grand point yesterday ;-)

That's a good one tag! LMAO!


And we all know, that is no reason for war.


Objectively speaking, "war" is an integral part of this civilization
and those of the past . . . Please consider Sun-Tzu.

I'm familiar with Sun-Tzu, but I am also familiar withe the Analects Of
Confucious, and the wisdom of Siddhartha.
Bush had no reason for war, therefore his war can be nothing but futile, and
he cannot win somthing built on lies, deception, or simply without good
intent.


One man's ego, one man's greed, or one man's legacy is not worth the life

or

limb of even one other man. Bush can go to Iraq, don a uniform like he

did

on the Carrier Lincoln, and go out on a combat million, and give his

life

for his cause, and then end the war, and that would be his finest legacy,
that he gave his life for his cause, and did not risk the life of anyone
else.


It's great to pass thread with you again Mr. X . . .

--Same eher Tag, I was hoping you would show up.
Specifically, I

just re-read a chapter or two from Woodward's 'State of Denial,' and
that involving the selection of the Chairman of the JCS just before
9/11. Disaster was frought from the very beginnings of this
Administration, however and again, objectively speaking 'hindsight is
indeed 20/20.' Nevertheless, speaking from experience and having
honorably served, it was a ***** shame (by Woodward's account) how
the Aegis of this nation's defense came to pass in the selection of a
leader of substance, over a leader of appearance.

This nation should have known bush had ulterior motive to any battle plan he
may concoct. He had Colin Powell at his disposal, and he put him at the
State dept, and placed the senile, crazy old man he plucked out of Serl
Phar. Rummy for the Defense Dept. I mean for God's sake, why didn't that
capture more attention than it did. I swear Tag, when he announced that I
brought it up to people and they did not think it was anything to worry
about. If you have Colin Powell and don't put him in the Penatgon over
rummy, the fish are already stinking up the joint! The DoD was in corrupt
hands from day one.


This whole war in Iraq was based on "appearance" with a whole lot of
propaganda, lies, etc. and the UN/US effort in Afghanistan an
atonement for this Administration's failure with specific regard to
Tora Bora.

Agreed.
Yet, and to this point, and with our troops and civilian

Iraqis dying en masse in a clear religious sectarian civil war, there
are no black-and-white, yes and no answers nor solutions as the Bush
Administration would delusionally like to believe and especially in
the context of Bush's anticipated bigoted "veto" in the coming hours,
if not day or two.

--Bush's veto is a veto against the will of We The People Tag. He crossed
the line from president to Dictator the other morning when he told America
what we voted for. That is not his right. It is not his job to re-interpret
our election results to fit his twisted plans in Iraq. When we vote vote in
democrats with a clear message, it is not his job to cloud that message
with his madness. However, he did get smacked down when he sent Patreaus to
both chambers and he got no results. OUR CONGRESS did not go off message
even for the general. I was proud.


My whole take to this point, as I watch the Da Vinci Code for the nth
time, what the world (if not America) is now in the grip of is the
battle of of not so much a civilization struggling to move forward,
but humankind which is at a "turning point" involving will and those
who are attempting desperately to find some degree of consensus, or
even understanding of the confusion, if not insanity that has gripped
the most powerful nation in this epoch. And the 'will' of the
American people shall IMO pervail. Not so much in the legislative
halls of Congress, nor before some international court of justice . .
. But that involving karma. For I believe that things in life happen
for good reason . . . And Bush, for all his fault(s) was all for the
good and which we ALL will benefit from.

Now Tag, you are getting to the real root of the situation, and I'm glad
someone is.
You see bush cannot be succesful. Not now, not at this time. He should know
it by now. He has had nothing but one thing after another blow up in his
face since his re-election. His sub standard intellect and his groomed staff
of ***** kissers will not allow him to see or understand why. One man in his
administration knows why, and thats ***** Cheney, but he still insists on
trying to pound the square peg in the round hole, because he, at this point
has no choice. But, that old codger has personally manipulated our Goverment
for a long time, and is the father of the Military Indiustrial complex, so
he knows why it's all going bad, but he still wants to take the money and
run. Cheney is the quintessential Manchurian Candidate. He is the man,
owned by private corpoartions to turn the US into what we are on the verge
of now. What you said about Bush for all of his faults is true. This
nations, and the world at large will be a better place when he and cheney
are gone.
There is something from Homer I like to think about when I think of the gang
of 4, Bush. Cheney, Rice and Rummy...
"Their glory walks hand in hand with their doom." They are to busy with
their glory to see their impending doom.


That would give him his place in history as the war hero he has up to now
had to fake, since his life has been that of just small, rich little

mommy's

boy with the heart of a Coward.


Objectively speaking, and in a word he is / was certainly, "unfit," as
I am keenly following his selection for "War Czar."

The war Czar is very pecurliar move thing for a man like to bush to advance.
He's so consumed with his role as commander, that a Czar could actually be
nothing more than a weird bush alter-ego of some sort. I think he just needs
a fall guy to trot in front of Senate Commitees since American is back to
oversight. He just needs someone to tie to the whipping post, because he's
sure it wont be him.



http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/

.
User: "Tag Heuer"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 27 Apr 2007 10:09:21 AM
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:16:34 -0400, "XTS" <xts@woh.rr.com> wrote:

I'm familiar with Sun-Tzu, but I am also familiar withe the Analects Of
Confucious, and the wisdom of Siddhartha. Bush had no reason for war,
therefore his war can be nothing but futile, and he cannot win somthing built
on lies, deception, or simply without good intent.

Bush did indeed have his own personal if not contrived reasons for
attacking invading and occupying Iraq. Accounts well before 9/11 show
that he was hell-bent on not only removing Hussein and executing
regime change, but he had the Neo-con PNAC blueprint for the region in
terms of a Western military presence in the region. And of course
that is history, and of course and the saying, 'that the road to
disaster is paved with good intentions,' most certainly applies.

This nation should have known bush had ulterior motive to any battle plan he
may concoct. He had Colin Powell at his disposal, and he put him at the
State dept, and placed the senile, crazy old man he plucked out of Serl
Phar. Rummy for the Defense Dept. I mean for God's sake, why didn't that
capture more attention than it did. I swear Tag, when he announced that I
brought it up to people and they did not think it was anything to worry
about. If you have Colin Powell and don't put him in the Penatgon over
rummy, the fish are already stinking up the joint! The DoD was in corrupt
hands from day one.

Bush 41 did everything he could to help his boy early on by dredging
up political dinosaurs such as Rumsfeld. And it comes with little to
no wonder why he is in the political quagmire he is in now - I refer
back to my earlier citation involving how former JCS Chairman Myers
was selected over Admiral Clark and that alone showed just how narrow
Rumsfeld's scope and understanding of the military was, even though
served, yet not in an combat, or operational sense of the service. In
fact, his stint in the service resembles the Chimp's time in the
reserves and Guard, but didn't go AWOL and was in fact rated and an
instructor. Needless to say, the DoD is a dynamic political organism
and when managed correctly may be effective in addressing the
threat(s) now confronting the nation - However, and to this point with
Gates is a wait-and-see, and I'm wondering why he hasn't been handed
the baton of "War Czar," and renaming the Dept. of Defense to the
"Department of War" - http://tinyurl.com/ysvvpo and to cut through the
rhetoric and semantic B.S.

--Bush's veto is a veto against the will of We The People Tag. He crossed
the line from president to Dictator the other morning when he told America
what we voted for. That is not his right. It is not his job to re-interpret
our election results to fit his twisted plans in Iraq. When we vote vote in
democrats with a clear message, it is not his job to cloud that message
with his madness. However, he did get smacked down when he sent Patreaus to
both chambers and he got no results. OUR CONGRESS did not go off message
even for the general. I was proud.

Gen. Petraeus, IMO is a pragmatist - He knows that he is being drawn
into this political mudslinging of which direction to go in Iraq and
doesn't like it one bit - In fact, most senior officers in the
military who are worth their salt would rather do without such
politicking and to simply do the job that they are charged with - He
knows that Bush and this Administration is using him as a tool, and
what he does and says from her on with become history, and a history
that he would prefer not to be associated with if in fact this
completely blows up in this Adminstration's face. Furthermore, it
doesn't help when the Commander-in-Chief looks upon himself as the
King of the country and what 'he says goes,' and feels that he can
scapegoat anyone, at anytime.

Now Tag, you are getting to the real root of the situation, and I'm glad
someone is.

Likewise.

You see bush cannot be succesful. Not now, not at this time. He should know
it by now. He has had nothing but one thing after another blow up in his
face since his re-election. His sub standard intellect and his groomed staff
of ***** kissers will not allow him to see or understand why. One man in his
administration knows why, and thats ***** Cheney, but he still insists on
trying to pound the square peg in the round hole, because he, at this point
has no choice. But, that old codger has personally manipulated our Goverment
for a long time, and is the father of the Military Indiustrial complex, so
he knows why it's all going bad, but he still wants to take the money and
run. Cheney is the quintessential Manchurian Candidate. He is the man,
owned by private corpoartions to turn the US into what we are on the verge
of now. What you said about Bush for all of his faults is true. This
nations, and the world at large will be a better place when he and cheney
are gone.

Absolutely. Cheney is Oz. He's that creepy old unassuming
personfication of all things bad that is happening to this
Administration, if not the country. For Christsakes, he shoots a man
in the face during some fake-***** drunken hunting party and the victim
goes on national television and basically declares, "Thank you, sir.
May I have another?" . . . That is 'power.' And a very evil one at
that.

There is something from Homer I like to think about when I think of the gang
of 4, Bush. Cheney, Rice and Rummy... "Their glory walks hand in hand with
their doom." They are to busy with their glory to see their impending doom.

You certainly know your history, and that which I applaud, but I think
Gandhi put it best . . ." What difference does it make to the dead,
the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought
under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and
democracy?"

The war Czar is very pecurliar move thing for a man like to bush to advance.
He's so consumed with his role as commander, that a Czar could actually be
nothing more than a weird bush alter-ego of some sort. I think he just needs
a fall guy to trot in front of Senate Commitees since American is back to
oversight. He just needs someone to tie to the whipping post, because he's
sure it wont be him.

Bingo. Have a great weekend.
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/
.
User: "XTS"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 27 Apr 2007 06:07:16 PM
"Tag Heuer" <tagheuerblog@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tb44335t9fe6087c4gtjn1uui0h2is907k@4ax.com...

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:16:34 -0400, "XTS" <xts@woh.rr.com> wrote:

I'm familiar with Sun-Tzu, but I am also familiar withe the Analects Of
Confucious, and the wisdom of Siddhartha. Bush had no reason for war,
therefore his war can be nothing but futile, and he cannot win somthing

built

on lies, deception, or simply without good intent.


Bush did indeed have his own personal if not contrived reasons for
attacking invading and occupying Iraq.

I should have legitimate reasons. ie: reasons that were beneficial for the
heath, well being, and saftey of the US.
He had nothing like that.
Accounts well before 9/11 show

that he was hell-bent on not only removing Hussein and executing
regime change, but he had the Neo-con PNAC blueprint for the region in
terms of a Western military presence in the region. And of course
that is history, and of course and the saying, 'that the road to
disaster is paved with good intentions,' most certainly applies.

This nation should have known bush had ulterior motive to any battle plan

he

may concoct. He had Colin Powell at his disposal, and he put him at the
State dept, and placed the senile, crazy old man he plucked out of Serl
Phar. Rummy for the Defense Dept. I mean for God's sake, why didn't that
capture more attention than it did. I swear Tag, when he announced that I
brought it up to people and they did not think it was anything to worry
about. If you have Colin Powell and don't put him in the Penatgon over
rummy, the fish are already stinking up the joint! The DoD was in

corrupt

hands from day one.


Bush 41 did everything he could to help his boy early on by dredging
up political dinosaurs such as Rumsfeld. And it comes with little to
no wonder why he is in the political quagmire he is in now - I refer
back to my earlier citation involving how former JCS Chairman Myers
was selected over Admiral Clark and that alone showed just how narrow
Rumsfeld's scope and understanding of the military was, even though
served, yet not in an combat, or operational sense of the service. In
fact, his stint in the service resembles the Chimp's time in the
reserves and Guard, but didn't go AWOL and was in fact rated and an
instructor. Needless to say, the DoD is a dynamic political organism
and when managed correctly may be effective in addressing the
threat(s) now confronting the nation - However, and to this point with
Gates is a wait-and-see, and I'm wondering why he hasn't been handed
the baton of "War Czar," and renaming the Dept. of Defense to the
"Department of War" - http://tinyurl.com/ysvvpo and to cut through the
rhetoric and semantic B.S.

--Bush's veto is a veto against the will of We The People Tag. He crossed
the line from president to Dictator the other morning when he told

America

what we voted for. That is not his right. It is not his job to

re-interpret

our election results to fit his twisted plans in Iraq. When we vote vote

in

democrats with a clear message, it is not his job to cloud that message
with his madness. However, he did get smacked down when he sent Patreaus

to

both chambers and he got no results. OUR CONGRESS did not go off message
even for the general. I was proud.


Gen. Petraeus, IMO is a pragmatist - He knows that he is being drawn
into this political mudslinging of which direction to go in Iraq and
doesn't like it one bit - In fact, most senior officers in the
military who are worth their salt would rather do without such
politicking and to simply do the job that they are charged with - He
knows that Bush and this Administration is using him as a tool, and
what he does and says from her on with become history, and a history
that he would prefer not to be associated with if in fact this
completely blows up in this Adminstration's face. Furthermore, it
doesn't help when the Commander-in-Chief looks upon himself as the
King of the country and what 'he says goes,' and feels that he can
scapegoat anyone, at anytime.

Now Tag, you are getting to the real root of the situation, and I'm glad
someone is.


Likewise.

You see bush cannot be succesful. Not now, not at this time. He should

know

it by now. He has had nothing but one thing after another blow up in his
face since his re-election. His sub standard intellect and his groomed

staff

of ***** kissers will not allow him to see or understand why. One man in

his

administration knows why, and thats ***** Cheney, but he still insists on
trying to pound the square peg in the round hole, because he, at this

point

has no choice. But, that old codger has personally manipulated our

Goverment

for a long time, and is the father of the Military Indiustrial complex,

so

he knows why it's all going bad, but he still wants to take the money and
run. Cheney is the quintessential Manchurian Candidate. He is the man,
owned by private corpoartions to turn the US into what we are on the

verge

of now. What you said about Bush for all of his faults is true. This
nations, and the world at large will be a better place when he and cheney
are gone.


Absolutely. Cheney is Oz. He's that creepy old unassuming
personfication of all things bad that is happening to this
Administration, if not the country. For Christsakes, he shoots a man
in the face during some fake-***** drunken hunting party and the victim
goes on national television and basically declares, "Thank you, sir.
May I have another?" . . . That is 'power.' And a very evil one at
that.

There is something from Homer I like to think about when I think of the

gang

of 4, Bush. Cheney, Rice and Rummy... "Their glory walks hand in hand

with

their doom." They are to busy with their glory to see their impending

doom.


You certainly know your history, and that which I applaud, but I think
Gandhi put it best . . ." What difference does it make to the dead,
the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought
under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and
democracy?"

The war Czar is very pecurliar move thing for a man like to bush to

advance.

He's so consumed with his role as commander, that a Czar could actually

be

nothing more than a weird bush alter-ego of some sort. I think he just

needs

a fall guy to trot in front of Senate Commitees since American is back to
oversight. He just needs someone to tie to the whipping post, because

he's

sure it wont be him.


Bingo. Have a great weekend.


http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/

.

User: "XTS"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 27 Apr 2007 06:13:26 PM
"Tag Heuer" <tagheuerblog@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tb44335t9fe6087c4gtjn1uui0h2is907k@4ax.com...

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:16:34 -0400, "XTS" <xts@woh.rr.com> wrote:

I'm familiar with Sun-Tzu, but I am also familiar withe the Analects Of
Confucious, and the wisdom of Siddhartha. Bush had no reason for war,
therefore his war can be nothing but futile, and he cannot win somthing

built

on lies, deception, or simply without good intent.


Bush did indeed have his own personal if not contrived reasons for
attacking invading and occupying Iraq. Accounts well before 9/11 show
that he was hell-bent on not only removing Hussein and executing
regime change, but he had the Neo-con PNAC blueprint for the region in
terms of a Western military presence in the region. And of course
that is history, and of course and the saying, 'that the road to
disaster is paved with good intentions,' most certainly applies.

This nation should have known bush had ulterior motive to any battle plan

he

may concoct. He had Colin Powell at his disposal, and he put him at the
State dept, and placed the senile, crazy old man he plucked out of Serl
Phar. Rummy for the Defense Dept. I mean for God's sake, why didn't that
capture more attention than it did. I swear Tag, when he announced that I
brought it up to people and they did not think it was anything to worry
about. If you have Colin Powell and don't put him in the Penatgon over
rummy, the fish are already stinking up the joint! The DoD was in

corrupt

hands from day one.


Bush 41 did everything he could to help his boy early on by dredging
up political dinosaurs such as Rumsfeld. And it comes with little to
no wonder why he is in the political quagmire he is in now - I refer
back to my earlier citation involving how former JCS Chairman Myers
was selected over Admiral Clark and that alone showed just how narrow
Rumsfeld's scope and understanding of the military was, even though
served, yet not in an combat, or operational sense of the service. In
fact, his stint in the service resembles the Chimp's time in the
reserves and Guard, but didn't go AWOL and was in fact rated and an
instructor. Needless to say, the DoD is a dynamic political organism
and when managed correctly may be effective in addressing the
threat(s) now confronting the nation - However, and to this point with
Gates is a wait-and-see, and I'm wondering why he hasn't been handed
the baton of "War Czar," and renaming the Dept. of Defense to the
"Department of War" - http://tinyurl.com/ysvvpo and to cut through the
rhetoric and semantic B.S.

--Bush's veto is a veto against the will of We The People Tag. He crossed
the line from president to Dictator the other morning when he told

America

what we voted for. That is not his right. It is not his job to

re-interpret

our election results to fit his twisted plans in Iraq. When we vote vote

in

democrats with a clear message, it is not his job to cloud that message
with his madness. However, he did get smacked down when he sent Patreaus

to

both chambers and he got no results. OUR CONGRESS did not go off message
even for the general. I was proud.


Gen. Petraeus, IMO is a pragmatist - He knows that he is being drawn
into this political mudslinging of which direction to go in Iraq and
doesn't like it one bit - In fact, most senior officers in the
military who are worth their salt would rather do without such
politicking and to simply do the job that they are charged with - He
knows that Bush and this Administration is using him as a tool, and
what he does and says from her on with become history, and a history
that he would prefer not to be associated with if in fact this
completely blows up in this Adminstration's face. Furthermore, it
doesn't help when the Commander-in-Chief looks upon himself as the
King of the country and what 'he says goes,' and feels that he can
scapegoat anyone, at anytime.

Now Tag, you are getting to the real root of the situation, and I'm glad
someone is.


Likewise.

You see bush cannot be succesful. Not now, not at this time. He should

know

it by now. He has had nothing but one thing after another blow up in his
face since his re-election. His sub standard intellect and his groomed

staff

of ***** kissers will not allow him to see or understand why. One man in

his

administration knows why, and thats ***** Cheney, but he still insists on
trying to pound the square peg in the round hole, because he, at this

point

has no choice. But, that old codger has personally manipulated our

Goverment

for a long time, and is the father of the Military Indiustrial complex,

so

he knows why it's all going bad, but he still wants to take the money and
run. Cheney is the quintessential Manchurian Candidate. He is the man,
owned by private corpoartions to turn the US into what we are on the

verge

of now. What you said about Bush for all of his faults is true. This
nations, and the world at large will be a better place when he and cheney
are gone.


Absolutely. Cheney is Oz. He's that creepy old unassuming
personfication of all things bad that is happening to this
Administration, if not the country. For Christsakes, he shoots a man
in the face during some fake-***** drunken hunting party and the victim
goes on national television and basically declares, "Thank you, sir.
May I have another?" . . . That is 'power.' And a very evil one at
that.

That was a display of raw, naked power, of which Americans have not
witnessed in a long time. He shot that man and did not notify the police
until the next day. And like you say, a very evil power, the kind this
country does not need, it will destroy this country of not contained.

There is something from Homer I like to think about when I think of the

gang

of 4, Bush. Cheney, Rice and Rummy... "Their glory walks hand in hand

with

their doom." They are to busy with their glory to see their impending

doom.


You certainly know your history, and that which I applaud, but I think
Gandhi put it best . . ." What difference does it make to the dead,
the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought
under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and
democracy?"

On that Gandhi pretty much trumped them all didn't he?

The war Czar is very pecurliar move thing for a man like to bush to

advance.

He's so consumed with his role as commander, that a Czar could actually

be

nothing more than a weird bush alter-ego of some sort. I think he just

needs

a fall guy to trot in front of Senate Commitees since American is back to
oversight. He just needs someone to tie to the whipping post, because

he's

sure it wont be him.


Bingo. Have a great weekend.

You too Tag...Peace.



http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/

.





User: "djw"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 05:52:39 PM
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:23:28 GMT, Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

In favor of a troop deadline

That's because people in general don't think very well.
As soon as someone points out that advertising the deadline is no
different than explaining to the enemy how long they need to hold out
until that number will change.
Why don't the Dems just call for cut & run if that's what they want to
do?
At least Harry Reid was honest that he thinks we've lost and we need
to surrender and leave.
.
User: "Lars Eighner"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 06:03:04 PM
In our last episode, <83b233l6u33t5ohs6cebvvrfrdt5j20q6i@4ax.com>, the
lovely and talented djw broadcast on alt.politics:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:23:28 GMT, Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

In favor of a troop deadline

That's because people in general don't think very well.
As soon as someone points out that advertising the deadline is no
different than explaining to the enemy how long they need to hold out
until that number will change.

There is no "enemy" in Iraq. It is a civil war. There is no way America
can win an Iraqi civil war: the only possible winners of an Iraqi civil war
is one or another of the Iraqi factions.

Why don't the Dems just call for cut & run if that's what they want to
do?

"Cut & run" is just a right-wing nutcase slogan. We don't say "he cut & run
from alcohol and went into AA." We don't say "he cut & run from lying on
the sofa and finally got a job." When you stop doing something stupid, that
isn't cutting & running.

At least Harry Reid was honest that he thinks we've lost and we need
to surrender and leave.

He was wrong because there is nothing in Iraq for America to win or lose.
You are wrong because there is nothing there for America to surrender.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 634 days to go.
I live in a concealed-carry state which just passed a shoot-whenever-you're-
nervous-in-public law. Iran is the last thing I worry about.
.
User: "djw"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 07:19:07 PM
On 26 Apr 2007 23:03:04 GMT, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>
wrote:

In our last episode, <83b233l6u33t5ohs6cebvvrfrdt5j20q6i@4ax.com>, the
lovely and talented djw broadcast on alt.politics:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:23:28 GMT, Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:


In favor of a troop deadline


That's because people in general don't think very well.


As soon as someone points out that advertising the deadline is no
different than explaining to the enemy how long they need to hold out
until that number will change.



There is no "enemy" in Iraq. It is a civil war. There is no way America
can win an Iraqi civil war: the only possible winners of an Iraqi civil war
is one or another of the Iraqi factions.

Are you nuts? We want a legitimate democratic government there. Not
Shia puppets of Iran and al Qaeda operatives.
Those people are murdering civilians daily. You think they'll stop
when we leave? They will butcher anyone who cooperated in the
democratic process and they will rule with a reign of terror.
The same thing happened when we pulled unceremoniously out of Vietnam
BTW.

Why don't the Dems just call for cut & run if that's what they want to
do?


"Cut & run" is just a right-wing nutcase slogan. We don't say "he cut & run
from alcohol and went into AA."

Addiction to achohol is a pretty moronic comparison. Cutting and
running refers to cutting our losses and running from the conflict as
fast as possible.
THis appears to be what the Dems are calling for but they, like you,
don't like the way it sounds when someone else says it.

We don't say "he cut & run from lying on
the sofa and finally got a job." When you stop doing something stupid, that
isn't cutting & running.

Calling the Iraq conflict some stupid thing we did and comparing it to
lying on the sofa with no job is a pathetic and clueless attempt at an
analogy.
Regardless of pathetic left-wing narratives about lying us into war
and other loony memes there was very much and seemingly reliable
intelligence backing up that decision. No one here can point to any
evidence that was fabricated.
The very best you have is that Bush accentuated the most dire
intelligence and deaccentuated the least.
My friend, that is not an impeachable offense regardless what your
rabid pals here say. That is an executive decision.

At least Harry Reid was honest that he thinks we've lost and we need
to surrender and leave.


He was wrong because there is nothing in Iraq for America to win or lose.

Yes there is. We don't want Iran running Iraq. We don't want al
Qaeda and Sunni remnants running amok in Iraq and creating a new rogue
state that will permanently destablilize the region.
Because we will be drawn back in again in the future when THEY are
stronger.

You are wrong because there is nothing there for America to surrender.

Grow up man. There are more important things than 'getting' Bush and
Cheney.
.
User: "XTS"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 09:10:31 PM
"djw" <wells.family@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:dmf2335hj4omvq1hc6191vnnkdc13h2ev3@4ax.com...

On 26 Apr 2007 23:03:04 GMT, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>
wrote:

In our last episode, <83b233l6u33t5ohs6cebvvrfrdt5j20q6i@4ax.com>, the
lovely and talented djw broadcast on alt.politics:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:23:28 GMT, Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:


In favor of a troop deadline


That's because people in general don't think very well.


As soon as someone points out that advertising the deadline is no
different than explaining to the enemy how long they need to hold out
until that number will change.



There is no "enemy" in Iraq. It is a civil war. There is no way America
can win an Iraqi civil war: the only possible winners of an Iraqi civil

war

is one or another of the Iraqi factions.

Are you nuts? We want a legitimate democratic government there.

Dream on kid. Thats the heart of Islam. They dont care what you want. Why
should they? Do you want them to tell you how to govern your land? You kids
don't even realize how stupid you sound when you say things like that. You
will never force them into anything. Haven't you seen what the last 4 years
of trying to give them what they dont want brings? They want Islamic
Theocracy, and since they live there, that's their business. Your arrogant
attitute about making them live the way you think they should live has cost
the lives of over 3 thousand Americans and a half trillion dollars and you
are not close to you goal. I simply can't believe that people as stupid and
ignorant as you can exist in a country like America where education os free.
The Iraqis don't share your dream *****, get used to it.
Not

Shia puppets of Iran and al Qaeda operatives.

Those people are murdering civilians daily. You think they'll stop
when we leave? They will butcher anyone who cooperated in the
democratic process and they will rule with a reign of terror.

The same thing happened when we pulled unceremoniously out of Vietnam
BTW.

Why don't the Dems just call for cut & run if that's what they want to
do?


"Cut & run" is just a right-wing nutcase slogan. We don't say "he cut &

run

from alcohol and went into AA."

Addiction to achohol is a pretty moronic comparison. Cutting and
running refers to cutting our losses and running from the conflict as
fast as possible.

THis appears to be what the Dems are calling for but they, like you,
don't like the way it sounds when someone else says it.

We don't say "he cut & run from lying on
the sofa and finally got a job." When you stop doing something stupid,

that

isn't cutting & running.

Calling the Iraq conflict some stupid thing we did and comparing it to
lying on the sofa with no job is a pathetic and clueless attempt at an
analogy.

Regardless of pathetic left-wing narratives about lying us into war
and other loony memes there was very much and seemingly reliable
intelligence backing up that decision. No one here can point to any
evidence that was fabricated.

The very best you have is that Bush accentuated the most dire
intelligence and deaccentuated the least.

My friend, that is not an impeachable offense regardless what your
rabid pals here say. That is an executive decision.

At least Harry Reid was honest that he thinks we've lost and we need
to surrender and leave.


He was wrong because there is nothing in Iraq for America to win or lose.


Yes there is. We don't want Iran running Iraq. We don't want al
Qaeda and Sunni remnants running amok in Iraq and creating a new rogue
state that will permanently destablilize the region.

Because we will be drawn back in again in the future when THEY are
stronger.

You are wrong because there is nothing there for America to surrender.


Grow up man. There are more important things than 'getting' Bush and
Cheney.

.

User: "Bokonon"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 27 Apr 2007 01:05:44 AM
"djw" <wells.family@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:dmf2335hj4omvq1hc6191vnnkdc13h2ev3@4ax.com...

Are you nuts? We want a legitimate democratic government there. Not
Shia puppets of Iran and al Qaeda operatives.

Why do you think that the same Iraqi people that we "liberated" from Saddam
would allow that to happen?
Why do you think that Iraqis are weak little mindless children?
--
"History! Read it and weep!"
-Bokonon
_______________________________________________
When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
.

User: "Lars Eighner"

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 07:46:10 PM
In our last episode,
<dmf2335hj4omvq1hc6191vnnkdc13h2ev3@4ax.com>,
the lovely and talented djw
broadcast on alt.politics:

On 26 Apr 2007 23:03:04 GMT, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>
wrote:

We don't say "he cut & run from lying on
the sofa and finally got a job." When you stop doing something stupid, that
isn't cutting & running.

Calling the Iraq conflict some stupid thing we did and comparing it to
lying on the sofa with no job is a pathetic and clueless attempt at an
analogy.

The War to Enrich Halliburton was stupid. Continuing to do it is stupid.
When you stop doing something stupid, that isn't "cut & run." It's wising
up.

Regardless of pathetic left-wing narratives about lying us into war
and other loony memes there was very much and seemingly reliable
intelligence backing up that decision. No one here can point to any
evidence that was fabricated.

I knew the aluminum tubes could not be used for enriching uranium, and I
posted as much here before the invasion. I knew the trucks could not
possibly be "mobile biology weapons" labs, and I posted as much right here
before the invasion. I knew the Nigerian yellowcake documents were crude
forgeries, and I posted as much right here before the invasion. I knew
there was no connection between Saddam's government and Al Qaeda and Al
Qaeda attacks of 9/11, and I posted as much right here before the invasion.
Bush was lying. Cheney was lying --- and he continues to lie even though it
has been revealed that he was told long before the invasion that Saddam had
no connection with Al Qaeda. Rice was lying. Powell was lying.
I knew better than to believe them. Howcome you still do?

The very best you have is that Bush accentuated the most dire
intelligence and deaccentuated the least.
My friend, that is not an impeachable offense regardless what your
rabid pals here say. That is an executive decision.

And impeachable offense is whatever the House of Representatives says it is.

At least Harry Reid was honest that he thinks we've lost and we need
to surrender and leave.


He was wrong because there is nothing in Iraq for America to win or lose.

Yes there is. We don't want Iran running Iraq. We don't want al
Qaeda and Sunni remnants running amok in Iraq and creating a new rogue
state that will permanently destablilize the region.

You should have thought about it before. Now it doesn't matter whether the
war last 10 more years or America gets out in October. The end result will
be the same. Whether by ballot box or by bombs and bullets, the Shia
majority will eventually prevail in most of the country and it will be
aligned with Iran, and parts of the country will be ungovernable. The only
issue is how many American soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians will die
in the meantime.

Because we will be drawn back in again in the future when THEY are
stronger.

Why? Why not get out and stay out?

You are wrong because there is nothing there for America to surrender.

Grow up man. There are more important things than 'getting' Bush and
Cheney.

So in fact, the lives of American troops mean nothing to you. To you it all
about preserving your political heros.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 634 days to go.
I live in a concealed-carry state which just passed a shoot-whenever-you're-
nervous-in-public law. Iran is the last thing I worry about.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 08:09:09 PM
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:19:07 -0400, djw
<wells.family@insightbb.com> wrote:

On 26 Apr 2007 23:03:04 GMT, Lars Eighner <usenet@larseighner.com>
wrote:

There is no "enemy" in Iraq. It is a civil war. There is no way America
can win an Iraqi civil war: the only possible winners of an Iraqi civil war
is one or another of the Iraqi factions.

Are you nuts? We want a legitimate democratic government there. Not
Shia puppets of Iran and al Qaeda operatives.

You simply don't get it.
Saddam, like Tito in Yugoslavia, held that shithole
together by force.
What the people didn't like was the indescriminate
murder by crazy relatives----but the entire nation ran
sufficiently able to provide that society with
stability
Your idiot-in-charge listened to a bunch of righwing
neocons that had learned NO lesson from Vietnam---about
the futility of beating ideas out of people with tanks,
planes, bombs and destruction
Those people in Iraq, like those in Vietnam have
unifying goals of ridding themselves of the US, and
acquiring power ANY WAY they can
That is an UN-WINNABLE situation--For US
But most people KNEW that before the attack----except
those that get tears in their eyes at the mention of
"liberty", "freedom", "democracy".
We started this war for ***** reason,
un-thought-out, and now are trying to salvage "honor"
What a ***** situation.
.



User: ""

Title: Re: NBC/WSJ poll: Americans siding with Dems against Bush on troop withdrawal 26 Apr 2007 08:02:58 PM
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:52:39 -0400, djw
<wells.family@insightbb.com> wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:23:28 GMT, Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

In favor of a troop deadline


That's because people in general don't think very well.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
'
OTOH, if "people in general" were supporting your lying
sack of *****'s policies you'd say they were the most
erudite, rational, educated, people on earth.

==================================================================
President Reagan created the conditions which made possible the crimes
committed by others by his secret deviations from announced national
policy as to Iran and hostages and by his open determination to keep
the contras together ``body and soul'' despite a statutory ban on
contra aid.1

1 McFarlane, North Trial Testimony, 3/10/89, p. 3946

.



  Page 1 of 1

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$55 million lawsuit filed against DSHS: Carole Ann DeLeon sits injail, charged with killing her adopted son by depriving him of water....
Howard Stern is having an impact with his crusade against Bush.
Appeals court sides with environmentalists against Republican administration.
Dumb Republicans side with bigoted PM John Howard against Obama--thanksguys!
Hey Democrats - RON PAUL is still voting AGAINST WAR with IRAN
FUX News lawsuit against Al Franken is peppered with boasts and insults.
Backlash Against Bush Immigration Proposal Confuses Fear With Security
Dumb Republicans side with bigoted PM John Howard against Obama--thanksguys!
Bush Tries To Sabotage Fight Against Global Warming With His *****
Judge Allows Ex-CIA Employee to Proceed With Lawsuit Against Bush Administration
Re: Howard Stern is having an impact with his crusade against Bush.
A Battle Against Illegal Workers, With an Unlikely Driving Force
Don't lift sanctions against Castro WHILE HIS REGIME EXPORTS ALL KINDS OF GOOD AND LEAVE CUBANS WITH RATIONS.
Clinton: "Either You Are With Us, or Against Us"
 

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