Negotiating With Our Murderers



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 27 Oct 2005 08:17:59 PM
Object: Negotiating With Our Murderers
Negotiating With Our Murderers
Written by Alan Caruba
Thursday, October 27, 2005
Making the rounds of the opinion editorial pages of various U.S.
dailies, Prof. Allen J. Zerkin, has been urging the United States to
begin opening channels to al Qaeda for the purpose of seeking “a
truce…no matter how much that galls us.”
Prof. Zerkin is a research fellow at New York University’s
Center for Catastrophic Preparedness and Response, and an adjunct
professor at its Wagner Graduate School of Public Service. These would
appear to be rather impressive credentials, but should we really
listen to someone who thinks al Qaeda has “limited and specific
goals”?
According to Osama bin Laden “The United States has been occupying the
lands of Islam in the holiest of places, plundering its riches,
dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its
neighbors.” That’s what he was saying back in 1998. It is useful to
keep in mind that bin Laden is worth millions thanks to his family
connections in Saudi Arabia where he grew up. His father, Muhammad
bin Laden, was a billionaire construction magnate in Saudi Arabia.
Osama bin Laden received an excellent education before experiencing
some kind of Wahabi epiphany when he put aside a life of wealth and
ease in favor of joining the war against the Soviet invasion of
Afghanistan. When that was over, he returned home to Saudi Arabia
expressing an antipathy for the royal family that earned him an
invitation to leave. He went to the Sudan and, in time, his Saudi
passport was revoked. The Saudis, who live by the strictest Islamic
codes of behavior, were not strict enough for Osama.
Prof. Zerkin, though, worries that al Qaeda will be able to attack the
United States with a biological or nuclear weapon. Who doesn’t worry
about this? And just as surely, who doesn’t know that there are
dozens of other Islamic terrorist organizations that dream of doing
it?
Prof. Zerkin found a grain of hope in a recent message by Ayman
al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda’s second in command. In that message, Zawahri
referred to bin Laden’s April 2004 offer of a truce to any European
country that made a commitment to stop ''attacking Muslims or
intervening in their affairs.'' This is a truce that sets in motion
the end of Europe as the birthplace of Western civilization and the
establishment of an Islamic caliphate there.
Anyone who has paid even the most casual attention to the news of late
knows that al Qaeda’s thugs have themselves been busy attacking
Muslims, indiscriminately killing them in Iraq to thwart the birth of
a democratic, modern nation. Afghanistan, which just held another
successful election, is still a battleground. And, of course, there
was the recent terrorist attack in London against “infidels” in its
subways and on its buses. There as since been another attack in Bali.
The bloodlust that distinguishes al Qaeda operations is hardly a
platform for back channel or any other negotiations. Prof. Zerkin
acknowledges this noting that terrorist attacks leave little to
discuss and the greater goal of destroying Western, i.e.,
Judeo-Christian civilization, is non-negotiable. He even concedes
that it is widely believed that “bin Laden and company will not act in
good faith.” If the professor would read the Koran, he would find
this supposition confirmed in the Islamic holy book.
History is replete with lessons that teach the futility of negotiating
with people who want to kill you. The English, the French, the
Soviets, and others discovered that no treaty with the Nazis was worth
the paper upon which it was written. Famously, Neville Chamberlain,
the then-prime minister of England, did not return from Berlin having
achieved “peace in our time.”
The dregs of Islam have been gathered together by bin Laden under the
banner of al Qaeda. They are led by men with an utterly bizarre view
of the world and the same casual indifference to human life with which
they recruit “youths who love death as you love life.”
In the end, Prof. Zerkin says, “I am not suggesting that we engage in
direct meetings with al Qaeda or that we stop pursuing those who
commit or support acts of terror. But, through back channels, we
should seek to determine if bin Laden would withdraw his ‘fatwa’
against Americans in exchange for certain policy changes, if al Qaeda
would settle for less than its maximum demands and if its far-flung
followers would honor a truce.”
Prof. Zerkin thinks there is “inconclusive” proof that bin Laden might
be willing to do a deal. So (1) why is he even suggesting
negotiations and (2) why is any daily newspaper actually printing his
recommendation as if it had a shred of merit?
He needs to visit the former Nazi concentration camps or any of the
camps of the former Soviet Union’s Ghulag Archipelago. He needs a
reminder of the prisons and mass graves that dot the landscape of
Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. He needs to gain a greater insight into the
Arab mind.
He needs to visit Ground Zero in lower Manhattan. When he does, he
will no longer be penning hopeful nonsense about negotiating with the
criminally and theologically insane. There is only one course of
action for the West. It must destroy its Islamist enemies or, failing
that, it must surrender.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.

User: "Figaro"

Title: Re: Negotiating With Our Murderers<===Shedding some light on Alan Caruba 27 Oct 2005 10:58:09 PM
Alan Caruba is dead set against any form of negotiation to end the Iraq war, as
you may have read in the original message posted by Captain Concussion.
What's Caruba's agenda?
Liars Figure
http://tinyurl.com/87o64
"I usually make a point of scanning the headlines at Science Daily at least once
per day. Today, I was annoyed to see that they've posted a thoroughly
unscientific article by the deranged PR flack Alan Caruba, whose intolerably
smug "debunking" of alternative energy relies primarily on unsubstantiated
claims by such like-minded fanatics as Ben Lieberman of the Competitive
Enterprise Institute.
Like most members of the anti-environmental goon squad, Caruba fancies himself a
formidable ironist...a modern-day Swift who wields a goosequill dipped in venom.
In other words, he relies on the sort of grueling, leaden sarcasm that most of
us grew out of (or had beaten out of us) by late adolescence.
That's by the by, though. His larger problem is that he's pathologically
dishonest..."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In addition to his pathologocal hatred of environmentalists, the UN, all things
Islamic and public education this war-mongering goofnut liberally (if you'll
excuse the term) spreads his manure on Fox News, Townhall, freerepublic.com and
a host of wingnut sites.
His article on the freeper site demanding that traitor Jonathan Pollard be freed
and allowed to immigrate to Israel is a pip.
http://tinyurl.com/dltsm
Figaro
.

User: "HollowWeen"

Title: Re: Negotiating With Our Murderers 27 Oct 2005 08:47:28 PM
Captain Compassion wrote:


Anyone who has paid even the most casual attention to the news of late
knows that al Qaeda’s thugs have themselves been busy attacking
Muslims, indiscriminately killing them in Iraq to thwart the birth of
a democratic, modern nation. Afghanistan, which just held another
successful election, is still a battleground. And, of course, there
was the recent terrorist attack in London against “infidels” in its
subways and on its buses. There as since been another attack in Bali.

Who are the thugs ? Soon you'll be paying multinational
corporations for the priviledge to have a job.

History is replete with lessons that teach the futility of negotiating
with people who want to kill you. The English, the French, the
Soviets

The Soviets went bankrupt the same way the U.S. will.
.

User: "Neocon Oil Cheerleaders"

Title: Re: Negotiating With Our Murderers 27 Oct 2005 08:57:53 PM
In article <ktu2m1d65gv07ofth0cdu3ubjg4mi6uchm@4ax.com>,
says...

Negotiating With Our Murderers
Written by Alan Caruba
Thursday, October 27, 2005

Making the rounds of the opinion editorial pages of various U.S.
dailies, Prof. Allen J. Zerkin, has been urging the United States to
begin opening channels to al Qaeda for the purpose of seeking ?a
truce?no matter how much that galls us.?

Prof. Zerkin is a research fellow at New York University?s
Center for Catastrophic Preparedness and Response, and an adjunct
professor at its Wagner Graduate School of Public Service. These would
appear to be rather impressive credentials, but should we really
listen to someone who thinks al Qaeda has ?limited and specific
goals??

According to Osama bin Laden ?The United States has been occupying the
lands of Islam in the holiest of places, plundering its riches,
dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its
neighbors.? That?s what he was saying back in 1998. It is useful to
keep in mind that bin Laden is worth millions thanks to his family
connections in Saudi Arabia where he grew up. His father, Muhammad
bin Laden, was a billionaire construction magnate in Saudi Arabia.

Osama bin Laden received an excellent education before experiencing
some kind of Wahabi epiphany when he put aside a life of wealth and
ease in favor of joining the war against the Soviet invasion of
Afghanistan. When that was over, he returned home to Saudi Arabia
expressing an antipathy for the royal family that earned him an
invitation to leave. He went to the Sudan and, in time, his Saudi
passport was revoked. The Saudis, who live by the strictest Islamic
codes of behavior, were not strict enough for Osama.

Prof. Zerkin, though, worries that al Qaeda will be able to attack the
United States with a biological or nuclear weapon. Who doesn?t worry
about this? And just as surely, who doesn?t know that there are
dozens of other Islamic terrorist organizations that dream of doing
it?

Prof. Zerkin found a grain of hope in a recent message by Ayman
al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda?s second in command. In that message, Zawahri
referred to bin Laden?s April 2004 offer of a truce to any European
country that made a commitment to stop ''attacking Muslims or
intervening in their affairs.'' This is a truce that sets in motion
the end of Europe as the birthplace of Western civilization and the
establishment of an Islamic caliphate there.

Anyone who has paid even the most casual attention to the news of late
knows that al Qaeda?s thugs have themselves been busy attacking
Muslims, indiscriminately killing them in Iraq to thwart the birth of
a democratic, modern nation. Afghanistan, which just held another
successful election, is still a battleground. And, of course, there
was the recent terrorist attack in London against ?infidels? in its
subways and on its buses. There as since been another attack in Bali.

The bloodlust that distinguishes al Qaeda operations is hardly a
platform for back channel or any other negotiations. Prof. Zerkin
acknowledges this noting that terrorist attacks leave little to
discuss and the greater goal of destroying Western, i.e.,
Judeo-Christian civilization, is non-negotiable. He even concedes
that it is widely believed that ?bin Laden and company will not act in
good faith.? If the professor would read the Koran, he would find
this supposition confirmed in the Islamic holy book.

History is replete with lessons that teach the futility of negotiating
with people who want to kill you. The English, the French, the
Soviets, and others discovered that no treaty with the Nazis was worth
the paper upon which it was written. Famously, Neville Chamberlain,
the then-prime minister of England, did not return from Berlin having
achieved ?peace in our time.?

The dregs of Islam have been gathered together by bin Laden under the
banner of al Qaeda. They are led by men with an utterly bizarre view
of the world and the same casual indifference to human life with which
they recruit ?youths who love death as you love life.?

In the end, Prof. Zerkin says, ?I am not suggesting that we engage in
direct meetings with al Qaeda or that we stop pursuing those who
commit or support acts of terror. But, through back channels, we
should seek to determine if bin Laden would withdraw his ?fatwa?
against Americans in exchange for certain policy changes, if al Qaeda
would settle for less than its maximum demands and if its far-flung
followers would honor a truce.?

Prof. Zerkin thinks there is ?inconclusive? proof that bin Laden might
be willing to do a deal. So (1) why is he even suggesting
negotiations and (2) why is any daily newspaper actually printing his
recommendation as if it had a shred of merit?

He needs to visit the former Nazi concentration camps or any of the
camps of the former Soviet Union?s Ghulag Archipelago. He needs a
reminder of the prisons and mass graves that dot the landscape of
Saddam Hussein?s Iraq. He needs to gain a greater insight into the
Arab mind.

He needs to visit Ground Zero in lower Manhattan. When he does, he
will no longer be penning hopeful nonsense about negotiating with the
criminally and theologically insane. There is only one course of
action for the West. It must destroy its Islamist enemies or, failing
that, it must surrender.


***** the terrorists! The US should act in
its own self-interest and withdraw unilaterally
from the Mid-East. We gain nothing from our
presence there. Zerkin ought to check another
professor, Robert Pape:
July 18, 2005 Issue
Copyright © 2005 The American Conservative
The Logic of Suicide Terrorism
It?s the occupation, not the fundamentalism
"...RP: I think it depends not exclusively, but
heavily, on how long our combat forces remain
in the Persian Gulf. The central motive for
anti-American terrorism, suicide terrorism, and
catastrophic terrorism is response to foreign
occupation, the presence of our troops. The
longer our forces stay on the ground in the
Arabian Peninsula, the greater the risk of the
next 9/11, whether that is a suicide attack, a
nuclear attack, or a biological attack."
http://amconmag.com/2005_07_18/article.html
.
User: "whofan"

Title: Re: Negotiating With Our Murderers 27 Oct 2005 10:51:44 PM
Neocon Oil Cheerleaders wrote:


F*CK the terrorists! The US should act in
its own self-interest and withdraw unilaterally
from the Mid-East. We gain nothing from our
presence there.

Then the terrorists get what they wanted.
Inevitably, the terrorists would want a nice bridge over a river
somewhere...or a new airport.....or zillions of dollars. Based on
previous examples of the US pulling out in an effort to please the
terrorists, the terrorists simply strike again and declare the
umpteenth "jihad" unless their new requirements are met.
Zerkin ought to check another

professor, Robert Pape:


July 18, 2005 Issue
Copyright © 2005 The American Conservative

The Logic of Suicide Terrorism

It?s the occupation, not the fundamentalism

"...RP: I think it depends not exclusively, but
heavily, on how long our combat forces remain
in the Persian Gulf. The central motive for
anti-American terrorism, suicide terrorism, and
catastrophic terrorism is response to foreign
occupation, the presence of our troops. The
longer our forces stay on the ground in the
Arabian Peninsula, the greater the risk of the
next 9/11, whether that is a suicide attack, a
nuclear attack, or a biological attack."

So Pape is suggesting that if US troops pull out of the entire
Persian Gulf....terrorists will never strike the US again?????
Sounds nice, but surely Professor Pape can't be *that* naive,
can he?????
.
User: "Neocon Oil Cheerleaders"

Title: Re: Negotiating With Our Murderers 27 Oct 2005 10:57:10 PM
In article <8vKdnejI0dzJPfzenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@rcn.net>,
says...

Neocon Oil Cheerleaders wrote:



F*CK the terrorists! The US should act in
its own self-interest and withdraw unilaterally
from the Mid-East. We gain nothing from our
presence there.


Then the terrorists get what they wanted.

So you want to be controlled by terrorists?
We should do want is in our interests instead
of the opposite of what the terrorists want.
.



User: "Figaro"

Title: Re: Negotiating With Our Murderers 27 Oct 2005 10:30:26 PM
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:17:59 -0700, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

Negotiating With Our Murderers
Written by Alan Caruba
Thursday, October 27, 2005

He needs to visit the former Nazi concentration camps or any of the
camps of the former Soviet Union’s Ghulag Archipelago. He needs a
reminder of the prisons and mass graves that dot the landscape of
Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. He needs to gain a greater insight into the
Arab mind.

On the way, can he make a stop at Abu Ghraib?


He needs to visit Ground Zero in lower Manhattan. When he does, he
will no longer be penning hopeful nonsense about negotiating with the
criminally and theologically insane. There is only one course of
action for the West. It must destroy its Islamist enemies or, failing
that, it must surrender.

Still working that repug gold mine, are we? There is no proof that
al Qaeda masterminded 9/11. And since when can the "insane" manage to keep an
American army pinned down and an American administration in a state of panic as
more and more Americans see the Iraqi quagmire for what it is, a bottomless pool
of quicksand. Not bad for a group of the criminally and theologically insane.
But we must not negotiate. That might end not only this insane war but the
profits, the power, and the oil that flow out of it. Besides, only girly men
negotiate. Real men, like Bush Cassidy, fight to the death. Not their death but
someone else's. Always someone else's.
And just who is Alan Caruba?
"Alan Caruba is a ( self proclaimed) public relations advisor and a vitriolic
critic of environmentalism. His website boasts that his clients have included or
currently include "chemical and pharmaceutical companies, think tanks, trade
associations, service providers, publishers, authors, and others. A staunch
conservative, he has also strongly supported the Bush administration's war with
Iraq and advocates similar military action against other countries in the Middle
East, including Syria."
http://tinyurl.com/8jzlf
Caruba, who operates out of an apartment in South Orange, NJ, is also a staunch
defender of Israel's interests in the Mid East. Surprise!
I wonder if Caruba is fit to enlist.
Figaro
.


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