| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Jor-elŠ" |
| Date: |
22 Jul 2006 10:18:10 AM |
| Object: |
Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR:
Neoconservatives, who successfully lobbied Bush to attack Iraq, are now
urging the Bush administration to expand the current conflict into a
full-scale regional war. Former CIA Director James Woolsey said the United
States should use the opportunity to attack Syria. (Woolsey added, "The last
thing we ought to do now is to start talking about cease-fires and the
rest.")
The one-dimensional foreign policy that continues to be advocated by
neoconservatives has consequences. According to the overwhelming majority
(84 percent) of top foreign policy experts surveyed by Foreign Policy
magazine and the Center for American Progress, we are losing the war on
terrorism.
http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=156817216&url_num=45&url=http://web0.foreignpolicy.com/issue_julyaug_2006/TI-index/index.html
The solution? Draft all Bush supporting neocons and ship them to Iraq.
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| User: "VRWC30" |
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| Title: Re: Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
24 Jul 2006 01:45:35 PM |
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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that
nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he
is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own
personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
himself." --John Stuart Mill
Let me guess: in your twisted world of liberal idealism, there is no
such thing as a just war?
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:18:10 GMT, "Jor-elŠ" <throwshit@bush.net>
wrote:
WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR:
Neoconservatives, who successfully lobbied Bush to attack Iraq, are now
urging the Bush administration to expand the current conflict into a
full-scale regional war. Former CIA Director James Woolsey said the United
States should use the opportunity to attack Syria. (Woolsey added, "The last
thing we ought to do now is to start talking about cease-fires and the
rest.")
The one-dimensional foreign policy that continues to be advocated by
neoconservatives has consequences. According to the overwhelming majority
(84 percent) of top foreign policy experts surveyed by Foreign Policy
magazine and the Center for American Progress, we are losing the war on
terrorism.
http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=156817216&url_num=45&url=http://web0.foreignpolicy.com/issue_julyaug_2006/TI-index/index.html
The solution? Draft all Bush supporting neocons and ship them to Iraq.
.
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| User: "Joseph Welch" |
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| Title: Re: Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
24 Jul 2006 01:55:30 PM |
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"VRWC30" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:v65ac2hijnammrb5pk09rr32ojijpep2ln@4ax.com...
Let me guess: in your twisted world of liberal idealism, there is no
such thing as a just war?
Just War - or a Just War?
by Jimmy Carter
ATLANTA - Profound changes have been taking place in American foreign
policy, reversing consistent bipartisan commitments that for more than two
centuries have earned our nation greatness. These commitments have been
predicated on basic religious principles, respect for international law, and
alliances that resulted in wise decisions and mutual restraint. Our apparent
determination to launch a war against Iraq, without international support,
is a violation of these premises.
As a Christian and as a president who was severely provoked by international
crises, I became thoroughly familiar with the principles of a just war, and
it is clear that a substantially unilateral attack on Iraq does not meet
these standards. This is an almost universal conviction of religious
leaders, with the most notable exception of a few spokesmen of the Southern
Baptist Convention who are greatly influenced by their commitment to Israel
based on eschatological, or final days, theology.
For a war to be just, it must meet several clearly defined criteria.
The war can be waged only as a last resort, with all nonviolent options
exhausted. In the case of Iraq, it is obvious that clear alternatives to war
exist. These options - previously proposed by our own leaders and approved
by the United Nations - were outlined again by the Security Council on
Friday. But now, with our own national security not directly threatened and
despite the overwhelming opposition of most people and governments in the
world, the United States seems determined to carry out military and
diplomatic action that is almost unprecedented in the history of civilized
nations. The first stage of our widely publicized war plan is to launch
3,000 bombs and missiles on a relatively defenseless Iraqi population within
the first few hours of an invasion, with the purpose of so damaging and
demoralizing the people that they will change their obnoxious leader, who
will most likely be hidden and safe during the bombardment.
The war's weapons must discriminate between combatants and noncombatants.
Extensive aerial bombardment, even with precise accuracy, inevitably results
in "collateral damage." Gen. Tommy R. Franks, commander of American forces
in the Persian Gulf, has expressed concern about many of the military
targets being near hospitals, schools, mosques and private homes.
Its violence must be proportional to the injury we have suffered. Despite
Saddam Hussein's other serious crimes, American efforts to tie Iraq to the
9/11 terrorist attacks have been unconvincing.
The attackers must have legitimate authority sanctioned by the society they
profess to represent. The unanimous vote of approval in the Security Council
to eliminate Iraq's weapons of mass destruction can still be honored, but
our announced goals are now to achieve regime change and to establish a Pax
Americana in the region, perhaps occupying the ethnically divided country
for as long as a decade. For these objectives, we do not have international
authority. Other members of the Security Council have so far resisted the
enormous economic and political influence that is being exerted from
Washington, and we are faced with the possibility of either a failure to get
the necessary votes or else a veto from Russia, France and China. Although
Turkey may still be enticed into helping us by enormous financial rewards
and partial future control of the Kurds and oil in northern Iraq, its
democratic Parliament has at least added its voice to the worldwide
expressions of concern.
The peace it establishes must be a clear improvement over what exists.
Although there are visions of peace and democracy in Iraq, it is quite
possible that the aftermath of a military invasion will destabilize the
region and prompt terrorists to further jeopardize our security at home.
Also, by defying overwhelming world opposition, the United States will
undermine the United Nations as a viable institution for world peace.
What about America's world standing if we don't go to war after such a great
deployment of military forces in the region? The heartfelt sympathy and
friendship offered to America after the 9/11 attacks, even from formerly
antagonistic regimes, has been largely dissipated; increasingly unilateral
and domineering policies have brought international trust in our country to
its lowest level in memory. American stature will surely decline further if
we launch a war in clear defiance of the United Nations. But to use the
presence and threat of our military power to force Iraq's compliance with
all United Nations resolutions - with war as a final option - will enhance
our status as a champion of peace and justice.
Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, is chairman of the
Carter Center in Atlanta and winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize.
--
George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by underminig American
freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
Supporting Bush is treason.
***************
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
24 Jul 2006 01:59:47 PM |
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Joseph Welch wrote:
Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, is chairman of the
Carter Center in Atlanta and winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize.
He is also still elegible for a second term as President. Just sayin'.
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| User: "Adam Albright" |
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| Title: Re: Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
24 Jul 2006 02:05:24 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:45:35 -0500, VRWC30 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that
nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he
is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own
personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
himself." --John Stuart Mill
Let me guess: in your twisted world of liberal idealism, there is no
such thing as a just war?
There haven't been any "just" wars in past 50 plus years, no!
The last just war was WWII. The Korean disaster, Vietnam, the Gulf War
and obviously the ongoing train wrecks in Lebanon, Iraq and
Afghanistan all were/are immoral, wrong and fought poorly resulting in
making the situtaiton after becoming worst then before they started.
Korea was a CIVIL war like Vietnam was and we had no business getting
involved, doing so only made things worse. Daddy Bush set up Saddam
and then once the conflict started failed to finish it making things
what they are now. Afghanistan is a huge blunder in that we haven't
completed the stated task;to caputure and bring bin Laden to justice.
Obviously only a fool now thinks invading Iraq was smart. Allowing
Israel to systematically destory a DEMOCRACY in Lebanon on some
***** premise is going to shortly be seen as a HUGE mistake that
will cost both Israel and the United States dearly in the long run.
Remember wars, all of them are a failure of diplomacy to resolve
disputes. Bush being a village idiot has a snowball's chance in hell
of doing anything diplomatic and as we can see is also a *****-***** poor
commander-in-chief that as head of the world's only super power in
over four years time can't even control a insurgeny in a 3rd rate
country and has left the war in Afghanistan go to hell allowing the
enemy to regroup.
There are literlally dozens of reasons why Bush could be impeached. He
is by far the greatest failure in all of American history.
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
24 Jul 2006 02:04:23 PM |
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VRWC30 wrote:
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that
nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he
is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own
personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
himself." --John Stuart Mill
Let me guess: in your twisted world of liberal idealism, there is no
such thing as a just war?
You quoted *John Stuart Mill* in order to bash *liberal idealism*?
John Stuart Mill, the great apostle of political liberalism in the 19th
century?
John Stuart Mill, the follower of Locke and Rousseau?
Are you certain that he is the person you want to quote when criticizing
someone's "twisted world of liberal idealism?"
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| User: "Thomas Lee Elifritz" |
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| Title: Re: Neoconservative's WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR |
24 Jul 2006 02:04:52 PM |
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jmcgill wrote:
VRWC30 wrote:
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that
nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he
is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own
personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being
free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
himself." --John Stuart Mill
Let me guess: in your twisted world of liberal idealism, there is no
such thing as a just war?
You quoted *John Stuart Mill* in order to bash *liberal idealism*?
John Stuart Mill, the great apostle of political liberalism in the 19th
century?
John Stuart Mill, the follower of Locke and Rousseau?
Are you certain that he is the person you want to quote when criticizing
someone's "twisted world of liberal idealism?"
.
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