| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Captain Compassion" |
| Date: |
02 Aug 2007 11:27:51 PM |
| Object: |
New Breed of Atheist |
New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson
8/2/2007
The Anti-Theist
Atheism has nearly always been with us in one form or another, but the
atheists we’ve been hearing the most from lately—chiefly Richard
Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris—are a new breed. Unlike
the old-school humanists, the new atheists—or anti-theists, as some of
them prefer to be called—don’t want to just deny the existence of God,
they want to wipe religion off the map.
Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with his new book,
belligerently titled God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything. In his first chapter, called “Putting It Mildly,” Hitchens
writes, “I will continue to [respect my friends’ religious traditions]
without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition—which is that
they in turn leave me alone.”
But this is something that religion is ultimately incapable of doing.
“People of faith,” Hitchens continues, “are in their different ways
planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all . . .
hard-won human attainments. . . . Religion poisons everything.”
The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all believers into one
category here is typical of his tone throughout the book, and typical
of anti-theists in general. They don’t argue; they yell. They’ve
decided that, simply because they dislike religion, there is no reason
to respect it. In their minds, it’s stupid, dangerous, and that’s all
that needs to be said.
That’s why I believe the anti-theist movement, as hot as it is right
now with books like Hitchens’s topping the bestseller lists, is doomed
to fail. The moment you take it seriously and start to study it, it
falls apart. There’s no substance, just anger and a lot of hot air.
Because anti-theists simply ignore evidence and arguments they don’t
like, they’re ill-equipped to deal with them rationally.
The old-guard secular humanists are questioning this new trend, and
rightly so. Most traditional atheists simply had their own belief
system, and if we wanted our belief system that was okay. The new
breed reflects the death of truth. They’re like the communists who
feared religion more than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have been scandalous to
every totalitarian leader.
Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to recognize the parallel
and feel uncomfortable about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, “The
New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the
mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody
who doesn’t join them is an ally of the Taliban.”
“Even those of us who sympathize intellectually,” he writes, “don’t
want the New Atheists to succeed.”
When you think about it this way, you have to wonder if the
anti-theists, in their heart of hearts, are a little uncomfortable
with their own beliefs. After all, if you really believe that truth
will win out—and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth is so
obvious that it cannot fail to win—you can let other people make their
own claims and live by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.
Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this, their polemics are
destined to lead not to the end of religion, but to the collapse of
their own movement. Not before, of course, they have gotten very rich.
It’s not irrelevant to the debate that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam
Harris sold one million copies of their angry diatribes last year. At
two dollars a book for royalties, that’s not bad.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
| User: "Roger" |
|
| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 12:48:52 AM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:f7b5b3dalvlvi9eeebufetfskor7a8mcor@4ax.com...
New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson
Even an idiot knows not to quote this guy.
What does that make you?
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Colson
Colson was known as President Nixon's hatchet man. Slate magazine writer
David Plotz described Colson as "Richard Nixon's hard man, the 'evil genius'
of an evil administration."[4] Colson has written that he was "valuable to
the President ... because I was willing ... to be ruthless in getting things
done".[5] This is perhaps complimentary when read in comparison to the
descriptions of Colson which pepper the work of Rolling Stone National
Affairs' Political Correspondent, Hunter S. Thompson during the period.
Colson authored the 1971 memo listing Nixon's major political opponents,
later known as Nixon's Enemies List. A quip that "Colson would walk over his
own grandmother if necessary" mutated into claims in news stories that
Colson had boasted that he would run over his own grandmother to re-elect
Nixon.[5] Plotz reports that Colson sought to hire Teamsters thugs to beat
up anti-war demonstrators.[4] John Dean maintains that Colson proposed
firebombing the Brookings Institution and stealing politically damaging
documents while firefighters put the fire out.[6][7]
Colson's voice, archives from April 1969, was heard in the 2004 movie Going
Upriver deprecating the anti-war efforts of John Kerry. Colson's orders were
to "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph
Nader."[8][9] In a phone conversation with President Nixon on April 28,
1971, Colson said, "This fellow Kerry that they had on last week...He turns
out to be really quite a phony."[8][9]
Colson also became involved in the Committee to Re-elect the President (CRP
or CREEP). At a CRP meeting on March 21, 1971, it was agreed to spend
US$250,000 on "intelligence gathering" on the Democratic Party. Colson and
John Ehrlichman appointed E. Howard Hunt to the White House Special
Operations Unit (the so-called "Plumbers") which had been organized to stop
leaks in the Nixon administration. Hunt headed up the Plumbers' burglary of
Pentagon Papers-leaker Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office in September
1971. The Pentagon Papers were military documents about the Vietnam War
which helped increase opposition to the war. Colson hoped that revelations
about Ellsberg could be used to discredit the anti-Vietnam War left. Colson
admitted to leaking information from Ellsberg's confidential FBI file to the
press, but denied organizing Hunt's burglary of Ellsberg's office.[5] He
expressed regret for attempting to cover up this incident in his 2005 book,
The Good Life.[citation needed]
As Colson was facing arrest, his close friend Tom Phillips gave him a copy
of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, which led Colson to become an
evangelical Christian. Several U.S. newspapers, as well as Newsweek and
Time, ridiculed the conversion, claiming that it was a ploy to reduce his
sentence.[citation needed]
On March 10, 1973, Colson resigned from the White House to return to the
private practice of law, as Senior Partner at the law firm of Colson and
Shapiro, Washington, D.C.[10]
On March 1, 1974, Colson was indicted for conspiring to cover up the
Watergate burglary.[3]
In 1974, Colson pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in the Ellsberg
case. On June 21, 1974, he was given a one-to-three year sentence, fined
$5,000, and disbarred.[3] He served seven months in Maxwell Correctional
Facility in Alabama,[11] and was released early, on January 31, 1975, by the
sentencing judge because of family problems.
8/2/2007
The Anti-Theist
Atheism has nearly always been with us in one form or another, but the
atheists we've been hearing the most from lately-chiefly Richard
Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris-are a new breed. Unlike
the old-school humanists, the new atheists-or anti-theists, as some of
them prefer to be called-don't want to just deny the existence of God,
they want to wipe religion off the map.
Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with his new book,
belligerently titled God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything. In his first chapter, called "Putting It Mildly," Hitchens
writes, "I will continue to [respect my friends' religious traditions]
without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition-which is that
they in turn leave me alone."
But this is something that religion is ultimately incapable of doing.
"People of faith," Hitchens continues, "are in their different ways
planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all . . .
hard-won human attainments. . . . Religion poisons everything."
The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all believers into one
category here is typical of his tone throughout the book, and typical
of anti-theists in general. They don't argue; they yell. They've
decided that, simply because they dislike religion, there is no reason
to respect it. In their minds, it's stupid, dangerous, and that's all
that needs to be said.
That's why I believe the anti-theist movement, as hot as it is right
now with books like Hitchens's topping the bestseller lists, is doomed
to fail. The moment you take it seriously and start to study it, it
falls apart. There's no substance, just anger and a lot of hot air.
Because anti-theists simply ignore evidence and arguments they don't
like, they're ill-equipped to deal with them rationally.
The old-guard secular humanists are questioning this new trend, and
rightly so. Most traditional atheists simply had their own belief
system, and if we wanted our belief system that was okay. The new
breed reflects the death of truth. They're like the communists who
feared religion more than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have been scandalous to
every totalitarian leader.
Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to recognize the parallel
and feel uncomfortable about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, "The
New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the
mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody
who doesn't join them is an ally of the Taliban."
"Even those of us who sympathize intellectually," he writes, "don't
want the New Atheists to succeed."
When you think about it this way, you have to wonder if the
anti-theists, in their heart of hearts, are a little uncomfortable
with their own beliefs. After all, if you really believe that truth
will win out-and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth is so
obvious that it cannot fail to win-you can let other people make their
own claims and live by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.
Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this, their polemics are
destined to lead not to the end of religion, but to the collapse of
their own movement. Not before, of course, they have gotten very rich.
It's not irrelevant to the debate that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam
Harris sold one million copies of their angry diatribes last year. At
two dollars a book for royalties, that's not bad.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 05:59:08 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:48:52 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:f7b5b3dalvlvi9eeebufetfskor7a8mcor@4ax.com...
New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson
Even an idiot knows not to quote this guy.
What does that make you?
The point is made. Atheism has evolved from free thinkers to anti
religious bigotry. From a reason to hate. Colson is indeed a clown but
a clown that is right in this matter.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Colson
Colson was known as President Nixon's hatchet man. Slate magazine writer
David Plotz described Colson as "Richard Nixon's hard man, the 'evil genius'
of an evil administration."[4] Colson has written that he was "valuable to
the President ... because I was willing ... to be ruthless in getting things
done".[5] This is perhaps complimentary when read in comparison to the
descriptions of Colson which pepper the work of Rolling Stone National
Affairs' Political Correspondent, Hunter S. Thompson during the period.
Colson authored the 1971 memo listing Nixon's major political opponents,
later known as Nixon's Enemies List. A quip that "Colson would walk over his
own grandmother if necessary" mutated into claims in news stories that
Colson had boasted that he would run over his own grandmother to re-elect
Nixon.[5] Plotz reports that Colson sought to hire Teamsters thugs to beat
up anti-war demonstrators.[4] John Dean maintains that Colson proposed
firebombing the Brookings Institution and stealing politically damaging
documents while firefighters put the fire out.[6][7]
Colson's voice, archives from April 1969, was heard in the 2004 movie Going
Upriver deprecating the anti-war efforts of John Kerry. Colson's orders were
to "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph
Nader."[8][9] In a phone conversation with President Nixon on April 28,
1971, Colson said, "This fellow Kerry that they had on last week...He turns
out to be really quite a phony."[8][9]
Colson also became involved in the Committee to Re-elect the President (CRP
or CREEP). At a CRP meeting on March 21, 1971, it was agreed to spend
US$250,000 on "intelligence gathering" on the Democratic Party. Colson and
John Ehrlichman appointed E. Howard Hunt to the White House Special
Operations Unit (the so-called "Plumbers") which had been organized to stop
leaks in the Nixon administration. Hunt headed up the Plumbers' burglary of
Pentagon Papers-leaker Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office in September
1971. The Pentagon Papers were military documents about the Vietnam War
which helped increase opposition to the war. Colson hoped that revelations
about Ellsberg could be used to discredit the anti-Vietnam War left. Colson
admitted to leaking information from Ellsberg's confidential FBI file to the
press, but denied organizing Hunt's burglary of Ellsberg's office.[5] He
expressed regret for attempting to cover up this incident in his 2005 book,
The Good Life.[citation needed]
As Colson was facing arrest, his close friend Tom Phillips gave him a copy
of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, which led Colson to become an
evangelical Christian. Several U.S. newspapers, as well as Newsweek and
Time, ridiculed the conversion, claiming that it was a ploy to reduce his
sentence.[citation needed]
On March 10, 1973, Colson resigned from the White House to return to the
private practice of law, as Senior Partner at the law firm of Colson and
Shapiro, Washington, D.C.[10]
On March 1, 1974, Colson was indicted for conspiring to cover up the
Watergate burglary.[3]
In 1974, Colson pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in the Ellsberg
case. On June 21, 1974, he was given a one-to-three year sentence, fined
$5,000, and disbarred.[3] He served seven months in Maxwell Correctional
Facility in Alabama,[11] and was released early, on January 31, 1975, by the
sentencing judge because of family problems.
8/2/2007
The Anti-Theist
Atheism has nearly always been with us in one form or another, but the
atheists we've been hearing the most from lately-chiefly Richard
Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris-are a new breed. Unlike
the old-school humanists, the new atheists-or anti-theists, as some of
them prefer to be called-don't want to just deny the existence of God,
they want to wipe religion off the map.
Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with his new book,
belligerently titled God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything. In his first chapter, called "Putting It Mildly," Hitchens
writes, "I will continue to [respect my friends' religious traditions]
without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition-which is that
they in turn leave me alone."
But this is something that religion is ultimately incapable of doing.
"People of faith," Hitchens continues, "are in their different ways
planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all . . .
hard-won human attainments. . . . Religion poisons everything."
The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all believers into one
category here is typical of his tone throughout the book, and typical
of anti-theists in general. They don't argue; they yell. They've
decided that, simply because they dislike religion, there is no reason
to respect it. In their minds, it's stupid, dangerous, and that's all
that needs to be said.
That's why I believe the anti-theist movement, as hot as it is right
now with books like Hitchens's topping the bestseller lists, is doomed
to fail. The moment you take it seriously and start to study it, it
falls apart. There's no substance, just anger and a lot of hot air.
Because anti-theists simply ignore evidence and arguments they don't
like, they're ill-equipped to deal with them rationally.
The old-guard secular humanists are questioning this new trend, and
rightly so. Most traditional atheists simply had their own belief
system, and if we wanted our belief system that was okay. The new
breed reflects the death of truth. They're like the communists who
feared religion more than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have been scandalous to
every totalitarian leader.
Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to recognize the parallel
and feel uncomfortable about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, "The
New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the
mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody
who doesn't join them is an ally of the Taliban."
"Even those of us who sympathize intellectually," he writes, "don't
want the New Atheists to succeed."
When you think about it this way, you have to wonder if the
anti-theists, in their heart of hearts, are a little uncomfortable
with their own beliefs. After all, if you really believe that truth
will win out-and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth is so
obvious that it cannot fail to win-you can let other people make their
own claims and live by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.
Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this, their polemics are
destined to lead not to the end of religion, but to the collapse of
their own movement. Not before, of course, they have gotten very rich.
It's not irrelevant to the debate that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam
Harris sold one million copies of their angry diatribes last year. At
two dollars a book for royalties, that's not bad.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roger" |
|
| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 06:09:55 AM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:hb26b3lq2c3o5e457ve1u1aeh3fr67afj5@4ax.com...
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:48:52 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:f7b5b3dalvlvi9eeebufetfskor7a8mcor@4ax.com...
New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson
Even an idiot knows not to quote this guy.
What does that make you?
The point is made. Atheism has evolved from free thinkers to anti
religious bigotry. From a reason to hate. Colson is indeed a clown but
a clown that is right in this matter.
You are the clown for basing your opinions on a clown.
And for stealing another poster's identity.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Colson
Colson was known as President Nixon's hatchet man. Slate magazine writer
David Plotz described Colson as "Richard Nixon's hard man, the 'evil
genius'
of an evil administration."[4] Colson has written that he was "valuable to
the President ... because I was willing ... to be ruthless in getting
things
done".[5] This is perhaps complimentary when read in comparison to the
descriptions of Colson which pepper the work of Rolling Stone National
Affairs' Political Correspondent, Hunter S. Thompson during the period.
Colson authored the 1971 memo listing Nixon's major political opponents,
later known as Nixon's Enemies List. A quip that "Colson would walk over
his
own grandmother if necessary" mutated into claims in news stories that
Colson had boasted that he would run over his own grandmother to re-elect
Nixon.[5] Plotz reports that Colson sought to hire Teamsters thugs to beat
up anti-war demonstrators.[4] John Dean maintains that Colson proposed
firebombing the Brookings Institution and stealing politically damaging
documents while firefighters put the fire out.[6][7]
Colson's voice, archives from April 1969, was heard in the 2004 movie
Going
Upriver deprecating the anti-war efforts of John Kerry. Colson's orders
were
to "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph
Nader."[8][9] In a phone conversation with President Nixon on April 28,
1971, Colson said, "This fellow Kerry that they had on last week...He
turns
out to be really quite a phony."[8][9]
Colson also became involved in the Committee to Re-elect the President
(CRP
or CREEP). At a CRP meeting on March 21, 1971, it was agreed to spend
US$250,000 on "intelligence gathering" on the Democratic Party. Colson and
John Ehrlichman appointed E. Howard Hunt to the White House Special
Operations Unit (the so-called "Plumbers") which had been organized to
stop
leaks in the Nixon administration. Hunt headed up the Plumbers' burglary
of
Pentagon Papers-leaker Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office in
September
1971. The Pentagon Papers were military documents about the Vietnam War
which helped increase opposition to the war. Colson hoped that revelations
about Ellsberg could be used to discredit the anti-Vietnam War left.
Colson
admitted to leaking information from Ellsberg's confidential FBI file to
the
press, but denied organizing Hunt's burglary of Ellsberg's office.[5] He
expressed regret for attempting to cover up this incident in his 2005
book,
The Good Life.[citation needed]
As Colson was facing arrest, his close friend Tom Phillips gave him a copy
of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, which led Colson to become an
evangelical Christian. Several U.S. newspapers, as well as Newsweek and
Time, ridiculed the conversion, claiming that it was a ploy to reduce his
sentence.[citation needed]
On March 10, 1973, Colson resigned from the White House to return to the
private practice of law, as Senior Partner at the law firm of Colson and
Shapiro, Washington, D.C.[10]
On March 1, 1974, Colson was indicted for conspiring to cover up the
Watergate burglary.[3]
In 1974, Colson pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in the Ellsberg
case. On June 21, 1974, he was given a one-to-three year sentence, fined
$5,000, and disbarred.[3] He served seven months in Maxwell Correctional
Facility in Alabama,[11] and was released early, on January 31, 1975, by
the
sentencing judge because of family problems.
8/2/2007
The Anti-Theist
Atheism has nearly always been with us in one form or another, but the
atheists we've been hearing the most from lately-chiefly Richard
Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris-are a new breed. Unlike
the old-school humanists, the new atheists-or anti-theists, as some of
them prefer to be called-don't want to just deny the existence of God,
they want to wipe religion off the map.
Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with his new book,
belligerently titled God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything. In his first chapter, called "Putting It Mildly," Hitchens
writes, "I will continue to [respect my friends' religious traditions]
without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition-which is that
they in turn leave me alone."
But this is something that religion is ultimately incapable of doing.
"People of faith," Hitchens continues, "are in their different ways
planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all . . .
hard-won human attainments. . . . Religion poisons everything."
The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all believers into one
category here is typical of his tone throughout the book, and typical
of anti-theists in general. They don't argue; they yell. They've
decided that, simply because they dislike religion, there is no reason
to respect it. In their minds, it's stupid, dangerous, and that's all
that needs to be said.
That's why I believe the anti-theist movement, as hot as it is right
now with books like Hitchens's topping the bestseller lists, is doomed
to fail. The moment you take it seriously and start to study it, it
falls apart. There's no substance, just anger and a lot of hot air.
Because anti-theists simply ignore evidence and arguments they don't
like, they're ill-equipped to deal with them rationally.
The old-guard secular humanists are questioning this new trend, and
rightly so. Most traditional atheists simply had their own belief
system, and if we wanted our belief system that was okay. The new
breed reflects the death of truth. They're like the communists who
feared religion more than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have been scandalous to
every totalitarian leader.
Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to recognize the parallel
and feel uncomfortable about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, "The
New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the
mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody
who doesn't join them is an ally of the Taliban."
"Even those of us who sympathize intellectually," he writes, "don't
want the New Atheists to succeed."
When you think about it this way, you have to wonder if the
anti-theists, in their heart of hearts, are a little uncomfortable
with their own beliefs. After all, if you really believe that truth
will win out-and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth is so
obvious that it cannot fail to win-you can let other people make their
own claims and live by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.
Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this, their polemics are
destined to lead not to the end of religion, but to the collapse of
their own movement. Not before, of course, they have gotten very rich.
It's not irrelevant to the debate that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam
Harris sold one million copies of their angry diatribes last year. At
two dollars a book for royalties, that's not bad.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 09:13:27 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 04:09:55 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:hb26b3lq2c3o5e457ve1u1aeh3fr67afj5@4ax.com...
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:48:52 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:f7b5b3dalvlvi9eeebufetfskor7a8mcor@4ax.com...
New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson
Even an idiot knows not to quote this guy.
What does that make you?
The point is made. Atheism has evolved from free thinkers to anti
religious bigotry. From a reason to hate. Colson is indeed a clown but
a clown that is right in this matter.
You are the clown for basing your opinions on a clown.
Go over to alt.atheism and take a peek. The Captain, who is a strong
agnostic, has held this opinion for years.
The Atheist will tell us of all the horror that religion has visited
on Mankind and there is truth to what they say. However they fail to
tell us that for each atrocity committed in the name of religion there
are a million lives given meaning for existence and comfort in times
of trouble. Atheism seeks to affirm the negative and offers little
towards enlightenment or comfort for the common masses of man. Atheism
is Nihilism. -- Captain Compassion.
And for stealing another poster's identity.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Colson
Colson was known as President Nixon's hatchet man. Slate magazine writer
David Plotz described Colson as "Richard Nixon's hard man, the 'evil
genius'
of an evil administration."[4] Colson has written that he was "valuable to
the President ... because I was willing ... to be ruthless in getting
things
done".[5] This is perhaps complimentary when read in comparison to the
descriptions of Colson which pepper the work of Rolling Stone National
Affairs' Political Correspondent, Hunter S. Thompson during the period.
Colson authored the 1971 memo listing Nixon's major political opponents,
later known as Nixon's Enemies List. A quip that "Colson would walk over
his
own grandmother if necessary" mutated into claims in news stories that
Colson had boasted that he would run over his own grandmother to re-elect
Nixon.[5] Plotz reports that Colson sought to hire Teamsters thugs to beat
up anti-war demonstrators.[4] John Dean maintains that Colson proposed
firebombing the Brookings Institution and stealing politically damaging
documents while firefighters put the fire out.[6][7]
Colson's voice, archives from April 1969, was heard in the 2004 movie
Going
Upriver deprecating the anti-war efforts of John Kerry. Colson's orders
were
to "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph
Nader."[8][9] In a phone conversation with President Nixon on April 28,
1971, Colson said, "This fellow Kerry that they had on last week...He
turns
out to be really quite a phony."[8][9]
Colson also became involved in the Committee to Re-elect the President
(CRP
or CREEP). At a CRP meeting on March 21, 1971, it was agreed to spend
US$250,000 on "intelligence gathering" on the Democratic Party. Colson and
John Ehrlichman appointed E. Howard Hunt to the White House Special
Operations Unit (the so-called "Plumbers") which had been organized to
stop
leaks in the Nixon administration. Hunt headed up the Plumbers' burglary
of
Pentagon Papers-leaker Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office in
September
1971. The Pentagon Papers were military documents about the Vietnam War
which helped increase opposition to the war. Colson hoped that revelations
about Ellsberg could be used to discredit the anti-Vietnam War left.
Colson
admitted to leaking information from Ellsberg's confidential FBI file to
the
press, but denied organizing Hunt's burglary of Ellsberg's office.[5] He
expressed regret for attempting to cover up this incident in his 2005
book,
The Good Life.[citation needed]
As Colson was facing arrest, his close friend Tom Phillips gave him a copy
of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, which led Colson to become an
evangelical Christian. Several U.S. newspapers, as well as Newsweek and
Time, ridiculed the conversion, claiming that it was a ploy to reduce his
sentence.[citation needed]
On March 10, 1973, Colson resigned from the White House to return to the
private practice of law, as Senior Partner at the law firm of Colson and
Shapiro, Washington, D.C.[10]
On March 1, 1974, Colson was indicted for conspiring to cover up the
Watergate burglary.[3]
In 1974, Colson pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in the Ellsberg
case. On June 21, 1974, he was given a one-to-three year sentence, fined
$5,000, and disbarred.[3] He served seven months in Maxwell Correctional
Facility in Alabama,[11] and was released early, on January 31, 1975, by
the
sentencing judge because of family problems.
8/2/2007
The Anti-Theist
Atheism has nearly always been with us in one form or another, but the
atheists we've been hearing the most from lately-chiefly Richard
Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris-are a new breed. Unlike
the old-school humanists, the new atheists-or anti-theists, as some of
them prefer to be called-don't want to just deny the existence of God,
they want to wipe religion off the map.
Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with his new book,
belligerently titled God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything. In his first chapter, called "Putting It Mildly," Hitchens
writes, "I will continue to [respect my friends' religious traditions]
without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition-which is that
they in turn leave me alone."
But this is something that religion is ultimately incapable of doing.
"People of faith," Hitchens continues, "are in their different ways
planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all . . .
hard-won human attainments. . . . Religion poisons everything."
The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all believers into one
category here is typical of his tone throughout the book, and typical
of anti-theists in general. They don't argue; they yell. They've
decided that, simply because they dislike religion, there is no reason
to respect it. In their minds, it's stupid, dangerous, and that's all
that needs to be said.
That's why I believe the anti-theist movement, as hot as it is right
now with books like Hitchens's topping the bestseller lists, is doomed
to fail. The moment you take it seriously and start to study it, it
falls apart. There's no substance, just anger and a lot of hot air.
Because anti-theists simply ignore evidence and arguments they don't
like, they're ill-equipped to deal with them rationally.
The old-guard secular humanists are questioning this new trend, and
rightly so. Most traditional atheists simply had their own belief
system, and if we wanted our belief system that was okay. The new
breed reflects the death of truth. They're like the communists who
feared religion more than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have been scandalous to
every totalitarian leader.
Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to recognize the parallel
and feel uncomfortable about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, "The
New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the
mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody
who doesn't join them is an ally of the Taliban."
"Even those of us who sympathize intellectually," he writes, "don't
want the New Atheists to succeed."
When you think about it this way, you have to wonder if the
anti-theists, in their heart of hearts, are a little uncomfortable
with their own beliefs. After all, if you really believe that truth
will win out-and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth is so
obvious that it cannot fail to win-you can let other people make their
own claims and live by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.
Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this, their polemics are
destined to lead not to the end of religion, but to the collapse of
their own movement. Not before, of course, they have gotten very rich.
It's not irrelevant to the debate that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam
Harris sold one million copies of their angry diatribes last year. At
two dollars a book for royalties, that's not bad.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
|
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
04 Aug 2007 12:33:00 AM |
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And for stealing another poster's identity.
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:crn7b39g8iptr19ej2basc54nnmd2bqu7r@4ax.com...
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 04:09:55 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:hb26b3lq2c3o5e457ve1u1aeh3fr67afj5@4ax.com...
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:48:52 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:f7b5b3dalvlvi9eeebufetfskor7a8mcor@4ax.com...
New Breed of Atheist
By Chuck Colson
Even an idiot knows not to quote this guy.
What does that make you?
The point is made. Atheism has evolved from free thinkers to anti
religious bigotry. From a reason to hate. Colson is indeed a clown but
a clown that is right in this matter.
You are the clown for basing your opinions on a clown.
Go over to alt.atheism and take a peek. The Captain, who is a strong
agnostic, has held this opinion for years.
The Atheist will tell us of all the horror that religion has visited
on Mankind and there is truth to what they say. However they fail to
tell us that for each atrocity committed in the name of religion there
are a million lives given meaning for existence and comfort in times
of trouble. Atheism seeks to affirm the negative and offers little
towards enlightenment or comfort for the common masses of man. Atheism
is Nihilism. -- Captain Compassion.
And for stealing another poster's identity.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Colson
Colson was known as President Nixon's hatchet man. Slate magazine writer
David Plotz described Colson as "Richard Nixon's hard man, the 'evil
genius'
of an evil administration."[4] Colson has written that he was "valuable
to
the President ... because I was willing ... to be ruthless in getting
things
done".[5] This is perhaps complimentary when read in comparison to the
descriptions of Colson which pepper the work of Rolling Stone National
Affairs' Political Correspondent, Hunter S. Thompson during the period.
Colson authored the 1971 memo listing Nixon's major political opponents,
later known as Nixon's Enemies List. A quip that "Colson would walk over
his
own grandmother if necessary" mutated into claims in news stories that
Colson had boasted that he would run over his own grandmother to
re-elect
Nixon.[5] Plotz reports that Colson sought to hire Teamsters thugs to
beat
up anti-war demonstrators.[4] John Dean maintains that Colson proposed
firebombing the Brookings Institution and stealing politically damaging
documents while firefighters put the fire out.[6][7]
Colson's voice, archives from April 1969, was heard in the 2004 movie
Going
Upriver deprecating the anti-war efforts of John Kerry. Colson's orders
were
to "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph
Nader."[8][9] In a phone conversation with President Nixon on April 28,
1971, Colson said, "This fellow Kerry that they had on last week...He
turns
out to be really quite a phony."[8][9]
Colson also became involved in the Committee to Re-elect the President
(CRP
or CREEP). At a CRP meeting on March 21, 1971, it was agreed to spend
US$250,000 on "intelligence gathering" on the Democratic Party. Colson
and
John Ehrlichman appointed E. Howard Hunt to the White House Special
Operations Unit (the so-called "Plumbers") which had been organized to
stop
leaks in the Nixon administration. Hunt headed up the Plumbers' burglary
of
Pentagon Papers-leaker Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office in
September
1971. The Pentagon Papers were military documents about the Vietnam War
which helped increase opposition to the war. Colson hoped that
revelations
about Ellsberg could be used to discredit the anti-Vietnam War left.
Colson
admitted to leaking information from Ellsberg's confidential FBI file to
the
press, but denied organizing Hunt's burglary of Ellsberg's office.[5] He
expressed regret for attempting to cover up this incident in his 2005
book,
The Good Life.[citation needed]
As Colson was facing arrest, his close friend Tom Phillips gave him a
copy
of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, which led Colson to become an
evangelical Christian. Several U.S. newspapers, as well as Newsweek and
Time, ridiculed the conversion, claiming that it was a ploy to reduce
his
sentence.[citation needed]
On March 10, 1973, Colson resigned from the White House to return to the
private practice of law, as Senior Partner at the law firm of Colson and
Shapiro, Washington, D.C.[10]
On March 1, 1974, Colson was indicted for conspiring to cover up the
Watergate burglary.[3]
In 1974, Colson pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in the Ellsberg
case. On June 21, 1974, he was given a one-to-three year sentence, fined
$5,000, and disbarred.[3] He served seven months in Maxwell Correctional
Facility in Alabama,[11] and was released early, on January 31, 1975, by
the
sentencing judge because of family problems.
8/2/2007
The Anti-Theist
Atheism has nearly always been with us in one form or another, but the
atheists we've been hearing the most from lately-chiefly Richard
Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris-are a new breed. Unlike
the old-school humanists, the new atheists-or anti-theists, as some of
them prefer to be called-don't want to just deny the existence of God,
they want to wipe religion off the map.
Christopher Hitchens follows this pattern with his new book,
belligerently titled God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons
Everything. In his first chapter, called "Putting It Mildly," Hitchens
writes, "I will continue to [respect my friends' religious traditions]
without insisting on the polite reciprocal condition-which is that
they in turn leave me alone."
But this is something that religion is ultimately incapable of doing.
"People of faith," Hitchens continues, "are in their different ways
planning your and my destruction, and the destruction of all . . .
hard-won human attainments. . . . Religion poisons everything."
The way Hitchens lumps all religions and all believers into one
category here is typical of his tone throughout the book, and typical
of anti-theists in general. They don't argue; they yell. They've
decided that, simply because they dislike religion, there is no reason
to respect it. In their minds, it's stupid, dangerous, and that's all
that needs to be said.
That's why I believe the anti-theist movement, as hot as it is right
now with books like Hitchens's topping the bestseller lists, is doomed
to fail. The moment you take it seriously and start to study it, it
falls apart. There's no substance, just anger and a lot of hot air.
Because anti-theists simply ignore evidence and arguments they don't
like, they're ill-equipped to deal with them rationally.
The old-guard secular humanists are questioning this new trend, and
rightly so. Most traditional atheists simply had their own belief
system, and if we wanted our belief system that was okay. The new
breed reflects the death of truth. They're like the communists who
feared religion more than anything else because it was a competing
truth claim. The Star of David and the cross have been scandalous to
every totalitarian leader.
Many traditional atheists and humanists seem to recognize the parallel
and feel uncomfortable about it. As Gary Wolf writes in Wired, "The
New Atheists have castigated fundamentalism and branded even the
mildest religious liberals as enablers of a vengeful mob. Everybody
who doesn't join them is an ally of the Taliban."
"Even those of us who sympathize intellectually," he writes, "don't
want the New Atheists to succeed."
When you think about it this way, you have to wonder if the
anti-theists, in their heart of hearts, are a little uncomfortable
with their own beliefs. After all, if you really believe that truth
will win out-and to Hitchens and company, their idea of truth is so
obvious that it cannot fail to win-you can let other people make their
own claims and live by their own beliefs without feeling the need to
destroy everything they stand for.
Because Hitchens and the others cannot do this, their polemics are
destined to lead not to the end of religion, but to the collapse of
their own movement. Not before, of course, they have gotten very rich.
It's not irrelevant to the debate that Dawkins, Hitchens, and Sam
Harris sold one million copies of their angry diatribes last year. At
two dollars a book for royalties, that's not bad.
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth
telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here,
not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they
alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them
suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
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| User: "Governor Swill" |
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| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 02:26:48 PM |
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On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:48:52 -0700, "Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com>
wrote:
As Colson was facing arrest, his close friend Tom Phillips gave him a copy
of Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, which led Colson to become an
evangelical Christian. Several U.S. newspapers, as well as Newsweek and
Time, ridiculed the conversion, claiming that it was a ploy to reduce his
sentence.[citation needed]
Here's on. I well remember the time and it was bandied about, though
not extensively, that that was exactly the case. In fact, as other
criminals did the same over the following years for various reasons,
'born again' became something of a cultural joke in this country. Not
unlike the current fashion of celebrities going into Rehab thanks to
Betty Ford's courageous admission.
Swill
--
Picture of the day
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 02:54:53 PM |
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The main substantive point of Colson's critique seems to be that the
"anti-theists" aren't nice, respectful debaters: they "yell," etc.
I'm all for nice, respectful debate myself. But for many centuries
nows, a significant number of adherents of various religions have been
proclaiming that atheists will burn in hell; such claims can be heard
regularly by some (certainly not all) religious types today. Being
nice and respectful is a two-way street, and I'm not sure religious
folks, as a group, can claim the high ground here.--Joe
.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: New Breed of Atheist |
03 Aug 2007 09:18:13 PM |
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On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 12:54:53 -0700, wrote:
The main substantive point of Colson's critique seems to be that the
"anti-theists" aren't nice, respectful debaters: they "yell," etc.
I'm all for nice, respectful debate myself. But for many centuries
nows, a significant number of adherents of various religions have been
proclaiming that atheists will burn in hell; such claims can be heard
regularly by some (certainly not all) religious types today. Being
nice and respectful is a two-way street, and I'm not sure religious
folks, as a group, can claim the high ground here.--Joe
So if some the religious are zealots than that justifies bigotry
against all the religious?
Does this constitute free thought?
--
There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling
the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their
cook fires. -- Captain Compassion.
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net
.
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