New look at Bush's `16 words'



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 11 Jul 2004 03:13:12 PM
Object: New look at Bush's `16 words'
New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004
LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.
"The British government has learned," Bush had said in his State of
the Union address in January, "that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
A furor erupted over that statement when a CIA consultant and
ex-diplomat named Joseph Wilson, who had gone to Niger in 2002 to look
into the matter, publicly claimed that the charge wasn't true. The
White House agreed that the line shouldn't have been in Bush's speech,
but far from quelling the uproar, that admission only intensified it.
Within days, Howard Dean was making comparisons to Watergate, a group
of left-leaning former intelligence officers were calling for the
resignation of Vice President ***** Cheney (who had taken a close
interest in the uranium evidence), and the Bush-is-a-liar shrieking
reached fever pitch. The Democratic National Committee cut an ad
accusing Bush of deliberately lying to the American people. And the
press embarked on a classic feeding frenzy, turning loose a tidal wave
of coverage on what had been, by any sober estimate, only a very small
piece of the administration's case against Saddam.
Upshot: Bush's credibility took a blow, support for the war in Iraq
was undermined, and the idea that Saddam's regime had tried to acquire
refined uranium in Africa for use in nuclear weapons was dismissed as
false.
But what if it was true?
Late last month, the Financial Times reported that, according to
European intelligence agencies, Iraq was one of five countries
negotiating with smugglers in Niger for the illegal purchase of
uranium yellowcake. "These claims support the assertion made in the
British government dossier . . . that Iraq sought to buy uranium from
an African country," the Financial Times reported in a front-page
story on June 27. For some reason, though, the US media showed
virtually no interest in that revelation. (One exception: columnist
William Safire in The New York Times.)
A few days ago, the Financial Times was back with more news: An
independent British commission investigating the government's use of
intelligence during the runup to the war in Iraq, the paper reported
on Wednesday, "is expected to conclude that Britain's spies were
correct to say that Saddam Hussein's regime sought to buy uranium from
Niger."
But this, too, has been largely ignored by the American press.
Curious, no? Journalists couldn't get enough of this topic when the
story line was that Bush and the British had lied. Shouldn't they find
it just as riveting when facts point in the other direction?
Here's another fact, this one from a recent book by a one-time US
ambassador: In 1999, Saddam's information minister, Mohammed Saeed
al-Sahhaf approached an official of Niger to talk about expanding
trade, an approach the official interpreted as a possible attempt to
buy uranium. The author of the book? None other than Joseph Wilson --
the man who accused the Bush administration last year of making up an
Iraqi interest in uranium from Africa. Now, it seems, he comes close
to confirming that interest. Yet except for a single story in The
Washington Post, the media have had virtually nothing to say about
Wilson's new account. To be sure, none of this proves that Saddam's
agents sought uranium for use in nuclear weapons. What it proves is
that reasonable people had good reason to believe that that's what
Saddam's agents were doing. Just as reasonable people had good reason
to believe that Iraq was armed with biological or chemical weapons.
Remember: That was the deeply held consensus of the US intelligence
community. It was affirmed by Republicans and Democrats, by Americans
and Europeans, by the Bush administration and the Clinton
administration, and by a unanimous UN Security Council.
Only in the wake of Iraq's liberation has it become fashionable to
assert not just that there were no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction,
but that only a liar would have said there were. And only now have the
media, in their eagerness to discredit Bush, been reluctant to cover
stories that prove otherwise.
Intelligence failures are not the same thing as lies. And intelligence
failures about Iraqi WMD did not begin with the Bush administration.
It is worth recalling that the CIA was way off the mark in its
estimates of Saddam's chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons
programs before the first Iraq war, too. It turned out then that
Saddam was a much more dangerous WMD menace than the experts had
realized. This time around, the experts may have overestimated the
threat.
But if intelligence mistakes are inevitable, is it better to worry too
much about potential threats or to worry too little? Worrying too much
-- if that's what happened -- resulted in the toppling of one of the
planet's most murderous tyrants. Worrying too little resulted in 9/11.
Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Only one ambition is worthy of Islam, to save the world from the
curse of democracy: to teach men that they cannot rule themselves
on the basis of man-made laws. Mankind has strayed from the path of
God, we must return to that path or face certain annihilation."
-- Sheikh Muhammad bin Ibrahim al-Jubair
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.

User: "Randy Cox"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 04:26:31 PM
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

But if intelligence mistakes are inevitable, is it better to worry too
much about potential threats or to worry too little? Worrying too much
-- if that's what happened -- resulted in the toppling of one of the
planet's most murderous tyrants. Worrying too little resulted in 9/11.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.


Worry? What me Worry? (Bush does look like Alfred E. Newman) Anyway what
does worry have to do with anything.
Misleading question. It wasn't worry that people were concerned about it
was a war that killed up to 100,000 Iraqis. We don't know how many because
Bush doesn't value Iraqi human life enough to keep count.
Randy R. Cox
.

User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 04:30:59 PM
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.

1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer than 6
months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the Yellowcake story
was *****
Jacoby = Right Wing liar
.
User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 04:38:16 PM
abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer than 6
months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the Yellowcake story
was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong. The specific papers some wanted to
use to discredit those claims were forgeries.
--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.
User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 06:34:04 PM
"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F1B348.4EB9ED13@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer than 6
months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the Yellowcake

story

was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong.

We knew the yellowcake story was dubious at best.
.
User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 07:32:14 PM
abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F1B348.4EB9ED13@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer than 6
months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the Yellowcake

story

was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong.


We knew the yellowcake story was dubious at best.

The story was true.
--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.
User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 09:38:15 PM
"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F1DC0E.8AD84BA1@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"

<stderr2@backpacker.com>

wrote in message news:40F1B348.4EB9ED13@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over

16

words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer than

6

months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the

Yellowcake

story

was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong.


We knew the yellowcake story was dubious at best.

The story was true.

What story?
.
User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 10:21:19 PM
abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F1DC0E.8AD84BA1@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"

<stderr2@backpacker.com>

wrote in message news:40F1B348.4EB9ED13@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over

16

words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer than

6

months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the

Yellowcake

story

was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong.


We knew the yellowcake story was dubious at best.

The story was true.


What story?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?
--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.
User: "abracadabra"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 11:08:34 PM
"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F203AF.779D8200@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"

<stderr2@backpacker.com>

wrote in message news:40F1DC0E.8AD84BA1@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"

<stderr2@backpacker.com>

wrote in message news:40F1B348.4EB9ED13@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in

message

news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode

over

16

words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months

earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer

than

6

months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the

Yellowcake

story

was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong.


We knew the yellowcake story was dubious at best.

The story was true.


What story?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Is that a story?
.
User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 12 Jul 2004 12:28:41 AM
abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F203AF.779D8200@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"

<stderr2@backpacker.com>

wrote in message news:40F1DC0E.8AD84BA1@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"

<stderr2@backpacker.com>

wrote in message news:40F1B348.4EB9ED13@backpacker.com...



abracadabra wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in

message

news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode

over

16

words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months

earlier.


1) That's a lie - the uproar over the 16 words was a lot closer

than

6

months of when Bush spoke them
2) The WH had been warned months before the speech that the

Yellowcake

story

was *****

The claims in the SOTU weren't wrong.


We knew the yellowcake story was dubious at best.

The story was true.


What story?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

Is that a story?

Is it an anti-novel?
--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.








User: "p_j"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 13 Jul 2004 06:22:53 AM
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
<stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:

The FT article has been covered to death.

For some reason your article doesn't discuss the clumsy forgeries, or
the evidence.

Who did the forgeries? The suggestion is now that at least some of them
were created by those involved in the scam to get the uranium, the
Iraqis.

Where oh where did you hear that one?



Moreover, what would Saddam do with this ore?

He would need to enrich it. This would require something like the
centrifuges that Pakistan (and now North Korea) have been selling the
tech to all over the world.

lol... LOTS of centrifuges. And that is just one part of the process.
Considering he has none of this stuff, what would happen to this ore
sitting in a warehouse?

A uranium bomb is significantly more
difficult for the world community to police and prevent from
proliferating.

Than what?
.

User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 04:08:10 PM
Captain Compassion wrote:


New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.

"The British government has learned," Bush had said in his State of
the Union address in January, "that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

A furor erupted over that statement when a CIA consultant and
ex-diplomat named Joseph Wilson, who had gone to Niger in 2002 to look
into the matter, publicly claimed that the charge wasn't true. The
White House agreed that the line shouldn't have been in Bush's speech,
but far from quelling the uproar, that admission only intensified it.

Within days, Howard Dean was making comparisons to Watergate, a group
of left-leaning former intelligence officers were calling for the
resignation of Vice President ***** Cheney (who had taken a close
interest in the uranium evidence), and the Bush-is-a-liar shrieking
reached fever pitch. The Democratic National Committee cut an ad
accusing Bush of deliberately lying to the American people. And the
press embarked on a classic feeding frenzy, turning loose a tidal wave
of coverage on what had been, by any sober estimate, only a very small
piece of the administration's case against Saddam.

Upshot: Bush's credibility took a blow, support for the war in Iraq
was undermined, and the idea that Saddam's regime had tried to acquire
refined uranium in Africa for use in nuclear weapons was dismissed as
false.

But what if it was true?

They don't care if it is true or not. They just want to use it to attack
Bush.

Late last month, the Financial Times reported that, according to
European intelligence agencies, Iraq was one of five countries
negotiating with smugglers in Niger for the illegal purchase of
uranium yellowcake. "These claims support the assertion made in the
British government dossier . . . that Iraq sought to buy uranium from
an African country," the Financial Times reported in a front-page
story on June 27. For some reason, though, the US media showed
virtually no interest in that revelation. (One exception: columnist
William Safire in The New York Times.)

A few days ago, the Financial Times was back with more news: An
independent British commission investigating the government's use of
intelligence during the runup to the war in Iraq, the paper reported
on Wednesday, "is expected to conclude that Britain's spies were
correct to say that Saddam Hussein's regime sought to buy uranium from
Niger."

But this, too, has been largely ignored by the American press.
Curious, no? Journalists couldn't get enough of this topic when the
story line was that Bush and the British had lied. Shouldn't they find
it just as riveting when facts point in the other direction?

Here's another fact, this one from a recent book by a one-time US
ambassador: In 1999, Saddam's information minister, Mohammed Saeed
al-Sahhaf approached an official of Niger to talk about expanding
trade, an approach the official interpreted as a possible attempt to
buy uranium. The author of the book? None other than Joseph Wilson --
the man who accused the Bush administration last year of making up an
Iraqi interest in uranium from Africa. Now, it seems, he comes close
to confirming that interest. Yet except for a single story in The
Washington Post, the media have had virtually nothing to say about
Wilson's new account. To be sure, none of this proves that Saddam's
agents sought uranium for use in nuclear weapons. What it proves is
that reasonable people had good reason to believe that that's what
Saddam's agents were doing. Just as reasonable people had good reason
to believe that Iraq was armed with biological or chemical weapons.
Remember: That was the deeply held consensus of the US intelligence
community. It was affirmed by Republicans and Democrats, by Americans
and Europeans, by the Bush administration and the Clinton
administration, and by a unanimous UN Security Council.

Only in the wake of Iraq's liberation has it become fashionable to
assert not just that there were no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction,
but that only a liar would have said there were. And only now have the
media, in their eagerness to discredit Bush, been reluctant to cover
stories that prove otherwise.

Intelligence failures are not the same thing as lies. And intelligence
failures about Iraqi WMD did not begin with the Bush administration.
It is worth recalling that the CIA was way off the mark in its
estimates of Saddam's chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons
programs before the first Iraq war, too. It turned out then that
Saddam was a much more dangerous WMD menace than the experts had
realized. This time around, the experts may have overestimated the
threat.

But if intelligence mistakes are inevitable, is it better to worry too
much about potential threats or to worry too little? Worrying too much
-- if that's what happened -- resulted in the toppling of one of the
planet's most murderous tyrants. Worrying too little resulted in 9/11.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Only one ambition is worthy of Islam, to save the world from the
curse of democracy: to teach men that they cannot rule themselves
on the basis of man-made laws. Mankind has strayed from the path of
God, we must return to that path or face certain annihilation."
-- Sheikh Muhammad bin Ibrahim al-Jubair

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net

--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.

User: "Jeffrey Turner"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 04:39:11 PM
Captain Compassion wrote:

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.

"The British government has learned," Bush had said in his State of
the Union address in January, "that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

A furor erupted over that statement when a CIA consultant and
ex-diplomat named Joseph Wilson, who had gone to Niger in 2002 to look
into the matter, publicly claimed that the charge wasn't true. The
White House agreed that the line shouldn't have been in Bush's speech,
but far from quelling the uproar, that admission only intensified it.

Within days, Howard Dean was making comparisons to Watergate, a group
of left-leaning former intelligence officers were calling for the
resignation of Vice President ***** Cheney (who had taken a close
interest in the uranium evidence), and the Bush-is-a-liar shrieking
reached fever pitch. The Democratic National Committee cut an ad
accusing Bush of deliberately lying to the American people. And the
press embarked on a classic feeding frenzy, turning loose a tidal wave
of coverage on what had been, by any sober estimate, only a very small
piece of the administration's case against Saddam.

A very small piece? ROFL. And none of the other pieces have held
water either.

Upshot: Bush's credibility took a blow, support for the war in Iraq
was undermined, and the idea that Saddam's regime had tried to acquire
refined uranium in Africa for use in nuclear weapons was dismissed as
false.

But what if it was true?

Late last month, the Financial Times reported that, according to
European intelligence agencies, Iraq was one of five countries
negotiating with smugglers in Niger for the illegal purchase of
uranium yellowcake. "These claims support the assertion made in the
British government dossier . . . that Iraq sought to buy uranium from
an African country," the Financial Times reported in a front-page
story on June 27. For some reason, though, the US media showed
virtually no interest in that revelation. (One exception: columnist
William Safire in The New York Times.)

Are those "Old Europe"'s intelligence agencies? Considering there was
no evidence found of any kind of active nuclear program in Iraq and
that all the weapons had been destroyed in the wake of the first Gulf
War and that Saddam had no delivery system and no working relationship
with al Qaeda, these allegations aren't all that credible.

A few days ago, the Financial Times was back with more news: An
independent British commission investigating the government's use of
intelligence during the runup to the war in Iraq, the paper reported
on Wednesday, "is expected to conclude that Britain's spies were
correct to say that Saddam Hussein's regime sought to buy uranium from
Niger."

But this, too, has been largely ignored by the American press.
Curious, no? Journalists couldn't get enough of this topic when the
story line was that Bush and the British had lied. Shouldn't they find
it just as riveting when facts point in the other direction?

Here's another fact, this one from a recent book by a one-time US
ambassador: In 1999, Saddam's information minister, Mohammed Saeed
al-Sahhaf approached an official of Niger to talk about expanding
trade, an approach the official interpreted as a possible attempt to
buy uranium. The author of the book? None other than Joseph Wilson --
the man who accused the Bush administration last year of making up an
Iraqi interest in uranium from Africa. Now, it seems, he comes close
to confirming that interest. Yet except for a single story in The
Washington Post, the media have had virtually nothing to say about
Wilson's new account. To be sure, none of this proves that Saddam's
agents sought uranium for use in nuclear weapons. What it proves is
that reasonable people had good reason to believe that that's what
Saddam's agents were doing. Just as reasonable people had good reason
to believe that Iraq was armed with biological or chemical weapons.
Remember: That was the deeply held consensus of the US intelligence
community. It was affirmed by Republicans and Democrats, by Americans
and Europeans, by the Bush administration and the Clinton
administration, and by a unanimous UN Security Council.

But nothing was being found by the inspectors, so all the consensus in
the world isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. You don't go to war on
pure conjecture and "intelligence" all collected from Chalabi's INC.

Only in the wake of Iraq's liberation has it become fashionable to
assert not just that there were no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction,
but that only a liar would have said there were. And only now have the
media, in their eagerness to discredit Bush, been reluctant to cover
stories that prove otherwise.

Intelligence failures are not the same thing as lies. And intelligence
failures about Iraqi WMD did not begin with the Bush administration.

But waging war, "preemptive" war, based on lousy intelligence did
begin with the Bush administration.

It is worth recalling that the CIA was way off the mark in its
estimates of Saddam's chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons
programs before the first Iraq war, too. It turned out then that
Saddam was a much more dangerous WMD menace than the experts had
realized. This time around, the experts may have overestimated the
threat.

But if intelligence mistakes are inevitable, is it better to worry too
much about potential threats or to worry too little? Worrying too much
-- if that's what happened -- resulted in the toppling of one of the
planet's most murderous tyrants. Worrying too little resulted in 9/11.

Oh, gee, Jacoby has to conflate Iraq with 9/11. As if his usual
disinformation isn't sufficient.
--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill
Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
.

User: "Roger"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 12 Jul 2004 05:10:56 AM
Keep picking at the wound.
It's bleeding again.
Good plan.
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.

<snip>
.

User: ""

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 04:56:26 PM
Worrying too little, versus too much. ?????
You are conveniently omitting the fact the US acted unilaterly inspite of
the Worlds suggestion time was needed to assure the cause was just.
You are conveniently omitting after the initial justification "SALE" of the
war was abandoned to then say no this is now about liberation.
You are leaving out all the evidence suggesting there were indeed NO ties
between Iraq and 9/11 yet 9/11 was always used as a factor to SELL the War
on Iraq.
What do you conclude when the facts them selves sugges masive incompedence,
and conflict of interest at every turn ?
I want better for my tax dollars. In fact I DEMAND it. I don't want the
leader of the free world to have a lesser grasp of the English Language than
most ESL students.
Sorry, I just think pointing out incompetence is at LEAST as newsworthy as
where our former presidents cigar was.
Some lie in attempt to save their relationship with their family. Others
lie to sustain a dynasty and maintain power.
I just don't appreciate America's #1 fortunate Son as much as you do.
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:cm73f0l5leime8u0l7mne8hd9dnus0gqvg@4ax.com...

New look at Bush's `16 words'
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | July 11, 2004

LAST YEAR at this time, the media were in full scandal mode over 16
words that President Bush had spoken nearly six months earlier.

"The British government has learned," Bush had said in his State of
the Union address in January, "that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

A furor erupted over that statement when a CIA consultant and
ex-diplomat named Joseph Wilson, who had gone to Niger in 2002 to look
into the matter, publicly claimed that the charge wasn't true. The
White House agreed that the line shouldn't have been in Bush's speech,
but far from quelling the uproar, that admission only intensified it.

Within days, Howard Dean was making comparisons to Watergate, a group
of left-leaning former intelligence officers were calling for the
resignation of Vice President ***** Cheney (who had taken a close
interest in the uranium evidence), and the Bush-is-a-liar shrieking
reached fever pitch. The Democratic National Committee cut an ad
accusing Bush of deliberately lying to the American people. And the
press embarked on a classic feeding frenzy, turning loose a tidal wave
of coverage on what had been, by any sober estimate, only a very small
piece of the administration's case against Saddam.

Upshot: Bush's credibility took a blow, support for the war in Iraq
was undermined, and the idea that Saddam's regime had tried to acquire
refined uranium in Africa for use in nuclear weapons was dismissed as
false.

But what if it was true?

Late last month, the Financial Times reported that, according to
European intelligence agencies, Iraq was one of five countries
negotiating with smugglers in Niger for the illegal purchase of
uranium yellowcake. "These claims support the assertion made in the
British government dossier . . . that Iraq sought to buy uranium from
an African country," the Financial Times reported in a front-page
story on June 27. For some reason, though, the US media showed
virtually no interest in that revelation. (One exception: columnist
William Safire in The New York Times.)

A few days ago, the Financial Times was back with more news: An
independent British commission investigating the government's use of
intelligence during the runup to the war in Iraq, the paper reported
on Wednesday, "is expected to conclude that Britain's spies were
correct to say that Saddam Hussein's regime sought to buy uranium from
Niger."

But this, too, has been largely ignored by the American press.
Curious, no? Journalists couldn't get enough of this topic when the
story line was that Bush and the British had lied. Shouldn't they find
it just as riveting when facts point in the other direction?

Here's another fact, this one from a recent book by a one-time US
ambassador: In 1999, Saddam's information minister, Mohammed Saeed
al-Sahhaf approached an official of Niger to talk about expanding
trade, an approach the official interpreted as a possible attempt to
buy uranium. The author of the book? None other than Joseph Wilson --
the man who accused the Bush administration last year of making up an
Iraqi interest in uranium from Africa. Now, it seems, he comes close
to confirming that interest. Yet except for a single story in The
Washington Post, the media have had virtually nothing to say about
Wilson's new account. To be sure, none of this proves that Saddam's
agents sought uranium for use in nuclear weapons. What it proves is
that reasonable people had good reason to believe that that's what
Saddam's agents were doing. Just as reasonable people had good reason
to believe that Iraq was armed with biological or chemical weapons.
Remember: That was the deeply held consensus of the US intelligence
community. It was affirmed by Republicans and Democrats, by Americans
and Europeans, by the Bush administration and the Clinton
administration, and by a unanimous UN Security Council.

Only in the wake of Iraq's liberation has it become fashionable to
assert not just that there were no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction,
but that only a liar would have said there were. And only now have the
media, in their eagerness to discredit Bush, been reluctant to cover
stories that prove otherwise.

Intelligence failures are not the same thing as lies. And intelligence
failures about Iraqi WMD did not begin with the Bush administration.
It is worth recalling that the CIA was way off the mark in its
estimates of Saddam's chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons
programs before the first Iraq war, too. It turned out then that
Saddam was a much more dangerous WMD menace than the experts had
realized. This time around, the experts may have overestimated the
threat.

But if intelligence mistakes are inevitable, is it better to worry too
much about potential threats or to worry too little? Worrying too much
-- if that's what happened -- resulted in the toppling of one of the
planet's most murderous tyrants. Worrying too little resulted in 9/11.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Only one ambition is worthy of Islam, to save the world from the
curse of democracy: to teach men that they cannot rule themselves
on the basis of man-made laws. Mankind has strayed from the path of
God, we must return to that path or face certain annihilation."
-- Sheikh Muhammad bin Ibrahim al-Jubair

"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion

"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net

.
User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 05:57:31 PM
wrote:


Worrying too little, versus too much. ?????
You are conveniently omitting the fact the US acted unilaterly inspite of
the Worlds suggestion time was needed to assure the cause was just.

"Unilaterally"? Do you know what that word means? How many decades
should Saddam get?
--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.
User: "Jeffrey Turner"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 08:14:33 PM
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' ) wrote:

owl_1971@hotmail.com wrote:

Worrying too little, versus too much. ?????
You are conveniently omitting the fact the US acted unilaterly inspite of
the Worlds suggestion time was needed to assure the cause was just.


"Unilaterally"? Do you know what that word means? How many decades
should Saddam get?

Until there's agreement that he poses a threat.
--Jeff
--
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill
Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
Rain on a tin roof sounds like a drum.
We're marching for freedom today-ay!
So turn on your headlights
and sound your horn,
if people get in the way. --Neil Innes
.
User: "Bill Bonde ``Theres sunshine in my stomach"

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 08:41:25 PM
Jeffrey Turner wrote:


Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' ) wrote:

owl_1971@hotmail.com wrote:

Worrying too little, versus too much. ?????
You are conveniently omitting the fact the US acted unilaterly inspite of
the Worlds suggestion time was needed to assure the cause was just.


"Unilaterally"? Do you know what that word means? How many decades
should Saddam get?


Until there's agreement that he poses a threat.

Between whom?
--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world’s
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that’s what you’re going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"
.


User: ""

Title: Re: New look at Bush's `16 words' 11 Jul 2004 08:25:33 PM
You are characterizing the bigest smoke screen of all.
War was sold to the world based upon WMD's, imenent threat to the US, ties
to Osama.
None of that turned out to be true BUT
because Sadam is a bad dictator all mistakes are justified.....
Please.
I don't think our soldiers appreciate that. None of the reasons for going
to war pan out.
But some political spin to distract Americans from the facts.
WMD's were not found.
There were NO ties to Osama.
Intelegence was either faulty or even "cooked".
I wouldn't kill or die for that.
Hell I don't like even seeing my taxes going to that.
Especialy when a large benefactor of the war is a rich, Wyoming man's former
company.
"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40F1C5DB.8814EBB8@backpacker.com...



owl_1971@hotmail.com wrote:


Worrying too little, versus too much. ?????
You are conveniently omitting the fact the US acted unilaterly inspite

of

the Worlds suggestion time was needed to assure the cause was just.

"Unilaterally"? Do you know what that word means? How many decades
should Saddam get?




--
"It has to be big", Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world's
tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke
rolling out of the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street.
A real opera of death, that's what you're going to get." -+Chuck
Palahniuk, "Fight Club"

.




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