| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Harry Hope" |
| Date: |
06 Jan 2006 06:08:12 PM |
| Object: |
New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
From The New York Times, 1/6/06:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?hp&ex=1136610000&en=cba30b2ab5b558f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows
By MICHAEL MOSS
A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the
marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body
could have survived if they had extra body armor.
That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the
Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls
from the field for additional protection, according to military
officials.
The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military
personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back.
In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the
Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets
and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the
torso where the plates do not reach.
Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to
the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had
the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study,
which was obtained by The New York Times.
For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows
the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon
continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops.
Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as
quickly as possible.
At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield
forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices
used by insurgents.
Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of
bullets.
The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since
the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have
surrounded the protection of American troops.
Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to
cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered
28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.
The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what
to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the
Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000
soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.
Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's
unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American
troops have died solely from torso wounds.
Military officials said they had originally decided against using the
extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to
the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers.
Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused
field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater
protection.
"As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that
in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried
about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on
their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with
Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.
The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the
beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body
armor.
The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military
panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published."
But it would take nearly two years.
The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004;
but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data
analyzed.
Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work
not starting until December 2004.
It finally began receiving the information by June 2005.
The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems
the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches
the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of
the military procurement system.
The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which
military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack,
has fallen three months behind schedule.
The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of
production and legal problems.
Meanwhile, the Pentagon is still relying on another small factory in
Ohio to armor all of the military's principal transport truck, the
Humvee, and it remains backlogged with orders.
The facility, owned by Armor Holdings, increased production in
December after reports in The Times about delays drew criticism from
Congress.
But the Marine Corps said it is still waiting for about 2,000 of these
vehicles to replace other Humvees in Iraq that are more lightly
armored, and does not expect final delivery until June.
An initiative begun by the Pentagon nearly two years ago to speed up
production by having additional firms armor new Humvees remains
incomplete, Army officials said.
Body armor has gone through a succession of problems in Iraq.
First, there were prolonged shortages of the plates that make the
vests bulletproof.
This year, the Pentagon began replacing the plates with a stronger
model that is more resistant to certain insurgent attacks.
Almost from the beginning, some soldiers asked for additional
protection to stop bullets from slicing through their sides.
In the fall of 2003, when troops began hanging their crotch protectors
under their arms, the Army's Rapid Equipping Force shipped several
hundred plates to protect their sides and shoulders.
Individual soldiers and units continued to buy their own sets.
The Army's former acting secretary, Les Brownlee, said in a recent
interview that he was shown numerous designs for expanded body armor
back in 2003, and instructed his staff to weigh their benefits against
the perceived threat without losing sight of the main task:
eliminating the shortages of plates for the chest and back.
Army procurement officials said that their efforts to purchase side
ceramic plates have been encumbered by their much larger force, and
that they wanted to provide manufacturers with detailed
specifications.
Also, they said their plates will be made to resist the stronger
insurgent attacks.
The Marines said they opted to take the older version of ceramic to
speed delivery.
As of early last month, officials said marines in Iraq had received
2,200 of the more than 28,000 sets of plates that are being bought at
a cost of about $260 each.
Marine officials said they have supplied troops with soft shoulder
protection that can repel some shrapnel, but remain concerned that
ceramic shoulder plates would be too restrictive.
Similarly, they said they believe the chest and back plates are as
large as they can be without unduly limiting the movement of troops.
The Times obtained the 3-page Pentagon report after a military
advocacy group, Soldiers for the Truth, learned of its existence.
The group posted an article about the report on its website earlier
this week.
The Times delayed publication of this article for more than a week
until the Pentagon confirmed the veracity of its report.
Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the wound data,
saying it would aid the enemy.
"Our preliminary research suggests that as many as 42 percent of the
Marine casualties who died from isolated torso injuries could have
been prevented with improved protection in the areas surrounding the
plated areas of the vest," the study concludes.
Another 23 percent might have been saved with side plates that extend
below the arms, while 15 percent more could have benefited from
shoulder plates, the report says. In all, 526 marines have been killed
in combat in Iraq.
A total of 1,706 American troops have died in combat.
The findings and other research by military pathologists suggests that
an analysis of all combat deaths in Iraq, including those of Army
personnel, would show that 300 or more lives might have been saved
with improved body armor.
Military officials and defense contractors said the Pentagon's
procurement troubles have stemmed in part from miscalculations that
underestimated the strength of the insurgency, and from years of
cost-cutting that left some armoring firms on the brink of collapse as
they waited for new orders.
To help defeat roadside ambushes, the military in May 2005 contracted
to buy 122 Cougars whose special V-shaped hull helps deflect roadside
bombs, military officials said.
But the Pentagon gave the job to a small firm in South Carolina, Force
Protection, that had never mass-produced vehicles.
Company officials said a string of blunders has pushed the completion
date to June.
A dozen prototypes shipped to Iraq have been recalled from the field
to replace a failing transmission.
Steel was cut to the wrong size before the truck's design drawings
were perfected.
Several managers have left the firm.
Company officials said they also lost time in an inter-service
skirmish.
The Army, which is buying the bulk of the vehicles, asked for its
trucks to be delivered before the Marine vehicles, and company
officials said that move upended their production process until the
Army agreed to get back in line behind the marines.
"It is what it is, and we're running as fast as we can to change it,"
Gordon McGilton, the company's chief executive, said in an interview
at its plant in Ladson, S.C.
On July 5, two former employees brought a federal false claims case
that accuses Force Protection of falsifying records to cover up
defective workmanship.
They allege that the actions "compromise the immediate and long term
integrity of the vehicles and result in a deficient product,"
according to legal documents filed under seal in the United States
District Court in Charleston and obtained by The Times.
The legal claim also accuses the company of falsifying records to
deceive the military into believing the firm could meet the production
deadlines.
The United States Attorney's office in South Carolina declined to
comment on the case.
The Marine Corps says the Justice Department did not notify it about
the case until December.
Force Protection officials said they had not been made aware of the
legal case.
They acknowledged making mistakes in rushing to fill the order, but
said there were multiple systems in place to monitor the quality of
the trucks, and that they were not aware of any deficiencies that
would jeopardize the troops.
__________________________________________________________
D'ya we can get anyone in the Chickenhawk Bush Crime Family to respond
to this?
Harry
.
|
|
| User: "Frank Pittel" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
06 Jan 2006 10:44:31 PM |
|
|
More leftwing lies from the liars of the nyts.
In alt.politics.usa.republican Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: From The New York Times, 1/6/06:
: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?hp&ex=1136610000&en=cba30b2ab5b558f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
: Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows
: By MICHAEL MOSS
: A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the
: marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body
: could have survived if they had extra body armor.
: That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the
: Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls
: from the field for additional protection, according to military
: officials.
: The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military
: personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back.
: In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the
: Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets
: and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the
: torso where the plates do not reach.
: Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to
: the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had
: the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study,
: which was obtained by The New York Times.
: For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows
: the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon
: continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops.
: Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as
: quickly as possible.
: At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield
: forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices
: used by insurgents.
: Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of
: bullets.
: The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since
: the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have
: surrounded the protection of American troops.
: Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to
: cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered
: 28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.
: The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what
: to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the
: Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000
: soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.
: Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's
: unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American
: troops have died solely from torso wounds.
: Military officials said they had originally decided against using the
: extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to
: the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers.
: Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused
: field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater
: protection.
: "As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that
: in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried
: about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on
: their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with
: Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.
: The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the
: beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body
: armor.
: The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military
: panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published."
: But it would take nearly two years.
: The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004;
: but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data
: analyzed.
: Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work
: not starting until December 2004.
: It finally began receiving the information by June 2005.
: The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems
: the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches
: the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of
: the military procurement system.
: The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which
: military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack,
: has fallen three months behind schedule.
: The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of
: production and legal problems.
: Meanwhile, the Pentagon is still relying on another small factory in
: Ohio to armor all of the military's principal transport truck, the
: Humvee, and it remains backlogged with orders.
: The facility, owned by Armor Holdings, increased production in
: December after reports in The Times about delays drew criticism from
: Congress.
: But the Marine Corps said it is still waiting for about 2,000 of these
: vehicles to replace other Humvees in Iraq that are more lightly
: armored, and does not expect final delivery until June.
: An initiative begun by the Pentagon nearly two years ago to speed up
: production by having additional firms armor new Humvees remains
: incomplete, Army officials said.
: Body armor has gone through a succession of problems in Iraq.
: First, there were prolonged shortages of the plates that make the
: vests bulletproof.
: This year, the Pentagon began replacing the plates with a stronger
: model that is more resistant to certain insurgent attacks.
: Almost from the beginning, some soldiers asked for additional
: protection to stop bullets from slicing through their sides.
: In the fall of 2003, when troops began hanging their crotch protectors
: under their arms, the Army's Rapid Equipping Force shipped several
: hundred plates to protect their sides and shoulders.
: Individual soldiers and units continued to buy their own sets.
: The Army's former acting secretary, Les Brownlee, said in a recent
: interview that he was shown numerous designs for expanded body armor
: back in 2003, and instructed his staff to weigh their benefits against
: the perceived threat without losing sight of the main task:
: eliminating the shortages of plates for the chest and back.
: Army procurement officials said that their efforts to purchase side
: ceramic plates have been encumbered by their much larger force, and
: that they wanted to provide manufacturers with detailed
: specifications.
: Also, they said their plates will be made to resist the stronger
: insurgent attacks.
: The Marines said they opted to take the older version of ceramic to
: speed delivery.
: As of early last month, officials said marines in Iraq had received
: 2,200 of the more than 28,000 sets of plates that are being bought at
: a cost of about $260 each.
: Marine officials said they have supplied troops with soft shoulder
: protection that can repel some shrapnel, but remain concerned that
: ceramic shoulder plates would be too restrictive.
: Similarly, they said they believe the chest and back plates are as
: large as they can be without unduly limiting the movement of troops.
: The Times obtained the 3-page Pentagon report after a military
: advocacy group, Soldiers for the Truth, learned of its existence.
: The group posted an article about the report on its website earlier
: this week.
: The Times delayed publication of this article for more than a week
: until the Pentagon confirmed the veracity of its report.
: Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the wound data,
: saying it would aid the enemy.
: "Our preliminary research suggests that as many as 42 percent of the
: Marine casualties who died from isolated torso injuries could have
: been prevented with improved protection in the areas surrounding the
: plated areas of the vest," the study concludes.
: Another 23 percent might have been saved with side plates that extend
: below the arms, while 15 percent more could have benefited from
: shoulder plates, the report says. In all, 526 marines have been killed
: in combat in Iraq.
: A total of 1,706 American troops have died in combat.
: The findings and other research by military pathologists suggests that
: an analysis of all combat deaths in Iraq, including those of Army
: personnel, would show that 300 or more lives might have been saved
: with improved body armor.
: Military officials and defense contractors said the Pentagon's
: procurement troubles have stemmed in part from miscalculations that
: underestimated the strength of the insurgency, and from years of
: cost-cutting that left some armoring firms on the brink of collapse as
: they waited for new orders.
: To help defeat roadside ambushes, the military in May 2005 contracted
: to buy 122 Cougars whose special V-shaped hull helps deflect roadside
: bombs, military officials said.
: But the Pentagon gave the job to a small firm in South Carolina, Force
: Protection, that had never mass-produced vehicles.
: Company officials said a string of blunders has pushed the completion
: date to June.
: A dozen prototypes shipped to Iraq have been recalled from the field
: to replace a failing transmission.
: Steel was cut to the wrong size before the truck's design drawings
: were perfected.
: Several managers have left the firm.
: Company officials said they also lost time in an inter-service
: skirmish.
: The Army, which is buying the bulk of the vehicles, asked for its
: trucks to be delivered before the Marine vehicles, and company
: officials said that move upended their production process until the
: Army agreed to get back in line behind the marines.
: "It is what it is, and we're running as fast as we can to change it,"
: Gordon McGilton, the company's chief executive, said in an interview
: at its plant in Ladson, S.C.
: On July 5, two former employees brought a federal false claims case
: that accuses Force Protection of falsifying records to cover up
: defective workmanship.
: They allege that the actions "compromise the immediate and long term
: integrity of the vehicles and result in a deficient product,"
: according to legal documents filed under seal in the United States
: District Court in Charleston and obtained by The Times.
: The legal claim also accuses the company of falsifying records to
: deceive the military into believing the firm could meet the production
: deadlines.
: The United States Attorney's office in South Carolina declined to
: comment on the case.
: The Marine Corps says the Justice Department did not notify it about
: the case until December.
: Force Protection officials said they had not been made aware of the
: legal case.
: They acknowledged making mistakes in rushing to fill the order, but
: said there were multiple systems in place to monitor the quality of
: the trucks, and that they were not aware of any deficiencies that
: would jeopardize the troops.
: __________________________________________________________
: D'ya we can get anyone in the Chickenhawk Bush Crime Family to respond
: to this?
: Harry
--
-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kevin Cunningham" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
07 Jan 2006 10:45:09 AM |
|
|
"Frank Pittel" <fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message
news:nqOdnbw0jqWy2iLenZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
More leftwing lies from the liars of the nyts.
Frank, Frank, Frank, Why not answer the question. Were's the body armor?
In alt.politics.usa.republican Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: From The New York Times, 1/6/06:
:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?hp&ex=1136610000&en=cba30b2ab5b558f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
: Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows
: By MICHAEL MOSS
: A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the
: marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body
: could have survived if they had extra body armor.
: That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the
: Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls
: from the field for additional protection, according to military
: officials.
: The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military
: personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back.
: In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the
: Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets
: and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the
: torso where the plates do not reach.
: Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to
: the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had
: the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study,
: which was obtained by The New York Times.
: For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows
: the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon
: continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops.
: Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as
: quickly as possible.
: At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield
: forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices
: used by insurgents.
: Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of
: bullets.
: The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since
: the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have
: surrounded the protection of American troops.
: Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to
: cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered
: 28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.
: The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what
: to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the
: Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000
: soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.
: Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's
: unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American
: troops have died solely from torso wounds.
: Military officials said they had originally decided against using the
: extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to
: the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers.
: Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused
: field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater
: protection.
: "As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that
: in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried
: about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on
: their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with
: Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.
: The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the
: beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body
: armor.
: The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military
: panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published."
: But it would take nearly two years.
: The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004;
: but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data
: analyzed.
: Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work
: not starting until December 2004.
: It finally began receiving the information by June 2005.
: The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems
: the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches
: the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of
: the military procurement system.
: The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which
: military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack,
: has fallen three months behind schedule.
: The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of
: production and legal problems.
: Meanwhile, the Pentagon is still relying on another small factory in
: Ohio to armor all of the military's principal transport truck, the
: Humvee, and it remains backlogged with orders.
: The facility, owned by Armor Holdings, increased production in
: December after reports in The Times about delays drew criticism from
: Congress.
: But the Marine Corps said it is still waiting for about 2,000 of these
: vehicles to replace other Humvees in Iraq that are more lightly
: armored, and does not expect final delivery until June.
: An initiative begun by the Pentagon nearly two years ago to speed up
: production by having additional firms armor new Humvees remains
: incomplete, Army officials said.
: Body armor has gone through a succession of problems in Iraq.
: First, there were prolonged shortages of the plates that make the
: vests bulletproof.
: This year, the Pentagon began replacing the plates with a stronger
: model that is more resistant to certain insurgent attacks.
: Almost from the beginning, some soldiers asked for additional
: protection to stop bullets from slicing through their sides.
: In the fall of 2003, when troops began hanging their crotch protectors
: under their arms, the Army's Rapid Equipping Force shipped several
: hundred plates to protect their sides and shoulders.
: Individual soldiers and units continued to buy their own sets.
: The Army's former acting secretary, Les Brownlee, said in a recent
: interview that he was shown numerous designs for expanded body armor
: back in 2003, and instructed his staff to weigh their benefits against
: the perceived threat without losing sight of the main task:
: eliminating the shortages of plates for the chest and back.
: Army procurement officials said that their efforts to purchase side
: ceramic plates have been encumbered by their much larger force, and
: that they wanted to provide manufacturers with detailed
: specifications.
: Also, they said their plates will be made to resist the stronger
: insurgent attacks.
: The Marines said they opted to take the older version of ceramic to
: speed delivery.
: As of early last month, officials said marines in Iraq had received
: 2,200 of the more than 28,000 sets of plates that are being bought at
: a cost of about $260 each.
: Marine officials said they have supplied troops with soft shoulder
: protection that can repel some shrapnel, but remain concerned that
: ceramic shoulder plates would be too restrictive.
: Similarly, they said they believe the chest and back plates are as
: large as they can be without unduly limiting the movement of troops.
: The Times obtained the 3-page Pentagon report after a military
: advocacy group, Soldiers for the Truth, learned of its existence.
: The group posted an article about the report on its website earlier
: this week.
: The Times delayed publication of this article for more than a week
: until the Pentagon confirmed the veracity of its report.
: Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the wound data,
: saying it would aid the enemy.
: "Our preliminary research suggests that as many as 42 percent of the
: Marine casualties who died from isolated torso injuries could have
: been prevented with improved protection in the areas surrounding the
: plated areas of the vest," the study concludes.
: Another 23 percent might have been saved with side plates that extend
: below the arms, while 15 percent more could have benefited from
: shoulder plates, the report says. In all, 526 marines have been killed
: in combat in Iraq.
: A total of 1,706 American troops have died in combat.
: The findings and other research by military pathologists suggests that
: an analysis of all combat deaths in Iraq, including those of Army
: personnel, would show that 300 or more lives might have been saved
: with improved body armor.
: Military officials and defense contractors said the Pentagon's
: procurement troubles have stemmed in part from miscalculations that
: underestimated the strength of the insurgency, and from years of
: cost-cutting that left some armoring firms on the brink of collapse as
: they waited for new orders.
: To help defeat roadside ambushes, the military in May 2005 contracted
: to buy 122 Cougars whose special V-shaped hull helps deflect roadside
: bombs, military officials said.
: But the Pentagon gave the job to a small firm in South Carolina, Force
: Protection, that had never mass-produced vehicles.
: Company officials said a string of blunders has pushed the completion
: date to June.
: A dozen prototypes shipped to Iraq have been recalled from the field
: to replace a failing transmission.
: Steel was cut to the wrong size before the truck's design drawings
: were perfected.
: Several managers have left the firm.
: Company officials said they also lost time in an inter-service
: skirmish.
: The Army, which is buying the bulk of the vehicles, asked for its
: trucks to be delivered before the Marine vehicles, and company
: officials said that move upended their production process until the
: Army agreed to get back in line behind the marines.
: "It is what it is, and we're running as fast as we can to change it,"
: Gordon McGilton, the company's chief executive, said in an interview
: at its plant in Ladson, S.C.
: On July 5, two former employees brought a federal false claims case
: that accuses Force Protection of falsifying records to cover up
: defective workmanship.
: They allege that the actions "compromise the immediate and long term
: integrity of the vehicles and result in a deficient product,"
: according to legal documents filed under seal in the United States
: District Court in Charleston and obtained by The Times.
: The legal claim also accuses the company of falsifying records to
: deceive the military into believing the firm could meet the production
: deadlines.
: The United States Attorney's office in South Carolina declined to
: comment on the case.
: The Marine Corps says the Justice Department did not notify it about
: the case until December.
: Force Protection officials said they had not been made aware of the
: legal case.
: They acknowledged making mistakes in rushing to fill the order, but
: said there were multiple systems in place to monitor the quality of
: the trucks, and that they were not aware of any deficiencies that
: would jeopardize the troops.
: __________________________________________________________
: D'ya we can get anyone in the Chickenhawk Bush Crime Family to respond
: to this?
: Harry
--
-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
.
|
|
|
| User: "Frank Pittel" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
08 Jan 2006 10:14:58 AM |
|
|
In alt.politics.usa.republican Kevin Cunningham <smskjd@mindspring.com> wrote:
: "Frank Pittel" <fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message
: news:nqOdnbw0jqWy2iLenZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
: > More leftwing lies from the liars of the nyts.
: >
: >
: Frank, Frank, Frank, Why not answer the question. Were's the body armor?
On the soldiers.
--
-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
.
|
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|
| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
08 Jan 2006 05:46:26 PM |
|
|
Frank Pittel <fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote:
More leftwing lies from the liars of the nyts.
Quite true. The armor could only have saved lives of the _VICTIMS_
were using it, not the baby killing American butchers.
In alt.politics.usa.republican Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: From The New York Times, 1/6/06:
: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?hp&ex=1136610000&en=cba30b2ab5b558f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
: Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows
: By MICHAEL MOSS
: A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the
: marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body
: could have survived if they had extra body armor.
: That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the
: Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls
: from the field for additional protection, according to military
: officials.
: The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military
: personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back.
: In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the
: Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets
: and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the
: torso where the plates do not reach.
: Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to
: the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had
: the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study,
: which was obtained by The New York Times.
: For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows
: the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon
: continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops.
: Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as
: quickly as possible.
: At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield
: forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices
: used by insurgents.
: Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of
: bullets.
: The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since
: the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have
: surrounded the protection of American troops.
: Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to
: cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered
: 28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.
: The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what
: to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the
: Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000
: soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.
: Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's
: unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American
: troops have died solely from torso wounds.
: Military officials said they had originally decided against using the
: extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to
: the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers.
: Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused
: field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater
: protection.
: "As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that
: in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried
: about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on
: their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with
: Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.
: The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the
: beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body
: armor.
: The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military
: panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published."
: But it would take nearly two years.
: The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004;
: but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data
: analyzed.
: Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work
: not starting until December 2004.
: It finally began receiving the information by June 2005.
: The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems
: the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches
: the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of
: the military procurement system.
: The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which
: military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack,
: has fallen three months behind schedule.
: The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of
: production and legal problems.
: Meanwhile, the Pentagon is still relying on another small factory in
: Ohio to armor all of the military's principal transport truck, the
: Humvee, and it remains backlogged with orders.
: The facility, owned by Armor Holdings, increased production in
: December after reports in The Times about delays drew criticism from
: Congress.
: But the Marine Corps said it is still waiting for about 2,000 of these
: vehicles to replace other Humvees in Iraq that are more lightly
: armored, and does not expect final delivery until June.
: An initiative begun by the Pentagon nearly two years ago to speed up
: production by having additional firms armor new Humvees remains
: incomplete, Army officials said.
: Body armor has gone through a succession of problems in Iraq.
: First, there were prolonged shortages of the plates that make the
: vests bulletproof.
: This year, the Pentagon began replacing the plates with a stronger
: model that is more resistant to certain insurgent attacks.
: Almost from the beginning, some soldiers asked for additional
: protection to stop bullets from slicing through their sides.
: In the fall of 2003, when troops began hanging their crotch protectors
: under their arms, the Army's Rapid Equipping Force shipped several
: hundred plates to protect their sides and shoulders.
: Individual soldiers and units continued to buy their own sets.
: The Army's former acting secretary, Les Brownlee, said in a recent
: interview that he was shown numerous designs for expanded body armor
: back in 2003, and instructed his staff to weigh their benefits against
: the perceived threat without losing sight of the main task:
: eliminating the shortages of plates for the chest and back.
: Army procurement officials said that their efforts to purchase side
: ceramic plates have been encumbered by their much larger force, and
: that they wanted to provide manufacturers with detailed
: specifications.
: Also, they said their plates will be made to resist the stronger
: insurgent attacks.
: The Marines said they opted to take the older version of ceramic to
: speed delivery.
: As of early last month, officials said marines in Iraq had received
: 2,200 of the more than 28,000 sets of plates that are being bought at
: a cost of about $260 each.
: Marine officials said they have supplied troops with soft shoulder
: protection that can repel some shrapnel, but remain concerned that
: ceramic shoulder plates would be too restrictive.
: Similarly, they said they believe the chest and back plates are as
: large as they can be without unduly limiting the movement of troops.
: The Times obtained the 3-page Pentagon report after a military
: advocacy group, Soldiers for the Truth, learned of its existence.
: The group posted an article about the report on its website earlier
: this week.
: The Times delayed publication of this article for more than a week
: until the Pentagon confirmed the veracity of its report.
: Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the wound data,
: saying it would aid the enemy.
: "Our preliminary research suggests that as many as 42 percent of the
: Marine casualties who died from isolated torso injuries could have
: been prevented with improved protection in the areas surrounding the
: plated areas of the vest," the study concludes.
: Another 23 percent might have been saved with side plates that extend
: below the arms, while 15 percent more could have benefited from
: shoulder plates, the report says. In all, 526 marines have been killed
: in combat in Iraq.
: A total of 1,706 American troops have died in combat.
: The findings and other research by military pathologists suggests that
: an analysis of all combat deaths in Iraq, including those of Army
: personnel, would show that 300 or more lives might have been saved
: with improved body armor.
: Military officials and defense contractors said the Pentagon's
: procurement troubles have stemmed in part from miscalculations that
: underestimated the strength of the insurgency, and from years of
: cost-cutting that left some armoring firms on the brink of collapse as
: they waited for new orders.
: To help defeat roadside ambushes, the military in May 2005 contracted
: to buy 122 Cougars whose special V-shaped hull helps deflect roadside
: bombs, military officials said.
: But the Pentagon gave the job to a small firm in South Carolina, Force
: Protection, that had never mass-produced vehicles.
: Company officials said a string of blunders has pushed the completion
: date to June.
: A dozen prototypes shipped to Iraq have been recalled from the field
: to replace a failing transmission.
: Steel was cut to the wrong size before the truck's design drawings
: were perfected.
: Several managers have left the firm.
: Company officials said they also lost time in an inter-service
: skirmish.
: The Army, which is buying the bulk of the vehicles, asked for its
: trucks to be delivered before the Marine vehicles, and company
: officials said that move upended their production process until the
: Army agreed to get back in line behind the marines.
: "It is what it is, and we're running as fast as we can to change it,"
: Gordon McGilton, the company's chief executive, said in an interview
: at its plant in Ladson, S.C.
: On July 5, two former employees brought a federal false claims case
: that accuses Force Protection of falsifying records to cover up
: defective workmanship.
: They allege that the actions "compromise the immediate and long term
: integrity of the vehicles and result in a deficient product,"
: according to legal documents filed under seal in the United States
: District Court in Charleston and obtained by The Times.
: The legal claim also accuses the company of falsifying records to
: deceive the military into believing the firm could meet the production
: deadlines.
: The United States Attorney's office in South Carolina declined to
: comment on the case.
: The Marine Corps says the Justice Department did not notify it about
: the case until December.
: Force Protection officials said they had not been made aware of the
: legal case.
: They acknowledged making mistakes in rushing to fill the order, but
: said there were multiple systems in place to monitor the quality of
: the trucks, and that they were not aware of any deficiencies that
: would jeopardize the troops.
: __________________________________________________________
: D'ya we can get anyone in the Chickenhawk Bush Crime Family to respond
: to this?
: Harry
--
-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"Someone give bush a ***** so we can finally impeach him" -- AVet4Peace
"Frankly, I do not give her the time of day (18:20 MST)" -- Quaoar
"How do you evolutionists explain the Caribbean Explosion?" -- Anonymous
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rich Travsky" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
11 Jan 2006 02:23:24 PM |
|
|
Frank Pittel wrote:
More leftwing lies from the liars of the nyts.
Why do you hate our troops?
In alt.politics.usa.republican Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: From The New York Times, 1/6/06:
: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?hp&ex=1136610000&en=cba30b2ab5b558f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
: Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows
: By MICHAEL MOSS
: A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the
: marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body
: could have survived if they had extra body armor.
: That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the
: Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls
: from the field for additional protection, according to military
: officials.
: The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military
: personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back.
: In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the
: Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets
: and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the
: torso where the plates do not reach.
: Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to
: the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had
: the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study,
: which was obtained by The New York Times.
: For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows
: the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon
: continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops.
: Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as
: quickly as possible.
: At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield
: forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices
: used by insurgents.
: Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of
: bullets.
: The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since
: the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have
: surrounded the protection of American troops.
: Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to
: cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered
: 28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.
: The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what
: to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the
: Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000
: soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.
: Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's
: unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American
: troops have died solely from torso wounds.
: Military officials said they had originally decided against using the
: extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to
: the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers.
: Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused
: field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater
: protection.
: "As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that
: in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried
: about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on
: their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with
: Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.
: The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the
: beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body
: armor.
: The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military
: panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published."
: But it would take nearly two years.
: The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004;
: but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data
: analyzed.
: Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work
: not starting until December 2004.
: It finally began receiving the information by June 2005.
: The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems
: the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches
: the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of
: the military procurement system.
: The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which
: military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack,
: has fallen three months behind schedule.
: The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of
: production and legal problems.
: Meanwhile, the Pentagon is still relying on another small factory in
: Ohio to armor all of the military's principal transport truck, the
: Humvee, and it remains backlogged with orders.
: The facility, owned by Armor Holdings, increased production in
: December after reports in The Times about delays drew criticism from
: Congress.
: But the Marine Corps said it is still waiting for about 2,000 of these
: vehicles to replace other Humvees in Iraq that are more lightly
: armored, and does not expect final delivery until June.
: An initiative begun by the Pentagon nearly two years ago to speed up
: production by having additional firms armor new Humvees remains
: incomplete, Army officials said.
: Body armor has gone through a succession of problems in Iraq.
: First, there were prolonged shortages of the plates that make the
: vests bulletproof.
: This year, the Pentagon began replacing the plates with a stronger
: model that is more resistant to certain insurgent attacks.
: Almost from the beginning, some soldiers asked for additional
: protection to stop bullets from slicing through their sides.
: In the fall of 2003, when troops began hanging their crotch protectors
: under their arms, the Army's Rapid Equipping Force shipped several
: hundred plates to protect their sides and shoulders.
: Individual soldiers and units continued to buy their own sets.
: The Army's former acting secretary, Les Brownlee, said in a recent
: interview that he was shown numerous designs for expanded body armor
: back in 2003, and instructed his staff to weigh their benefits against
: the perceived threat without losing sight of the main task:
: eliminating the shortages of plates for the chest and back.
: Army procurement officials said that their efforts to purchase side
: ceramic plates have been encumbered by their much larger force, and
: that they wanted to provide manufacturers with detailed
: specifications.
: Also, they said their plates will be made to resist the stronger
: insurgent attacks.
: The Marines said they opted to take the older version of ceramic to
: speed delivery.
: As of early last month, officials said marines in Iraq had received
: 2,200 of the more than 28,000 sets of plates that are being bought at
: a cost of about $260 each.
: Marine officials said they have supplied troops with soft shoulder
: protection that can repel some shrapnel, but remain concerned that
: ceramic shoulder plates would be too restrictive.
: Similarly, they said they believe the chest and back plates are as
: large as they can be without unduly limiting the movement of troops.
: The Times obtained the 3-page Pentagon report after a military
: advocacy group, Soldiers for the Truth, learned of its existence.
: The group posted an article about the report on its website earlier
: this week.
: The Times delayed publication of this article for more than a week
: until the Pentagon confirmed the veracity of its report.
: Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the wound data,
: saying it would aid the enemy.
: "Our preliminary research suggests that as many as 42 percent of the
: Marine casualties who died from isolated torso injuries could have
: been prevented with improved protection in the areas surrounding the
: plated areas of the vest," the study concludes.
: Another 23 percent might have been saved with side plates that extend
: below the arms, while 15 percent more could have benefited from
: shoulder plates, the report says. In all, 526 marines have been killed
: in combat in Iraq.
: A total of 1,706 American troops have died in combat.
: The findings and other research by military pathologists suggests that
: an analysis of all combat deaths in Iraq, including those of Army
: personnel, would show that 300 or more lives might have been saved
: with improved body armor.
: Military officials and defense contractors said the Pentagon's
: procurement troubles have stemmed in part from miscalculations that
: underestimated the strength of the insurgency, and from years of
: cost-cutting that left some armoring firms on the brink of collapse as
: they waited for new orders.
: To help defeat roadside ambushes, the military in May 2005 contracted
: to buy 122 Cougars whose special V-shaped hull helps deflect roadside
: bombs, military officials said.
: But the Pentagon gave the job to a small firm in South Carolina, Force
: Protection, that had never mass-produced vehicles.
: Company officials said a string of blunders has pushed the completion
: date to June.
: A dozen prototypes shipped to Iraq have been recalled from the field
: to replace a failing transmission.
: Steel was cut to the wrong size before the truck's design drawings
: were perfected.
: Several managers have left the firm.
: Company officials said they also lost time in an inter-service
: skirmish.
: The Army, which is buying the bulk of the vehicles, asked for its
: trucks to be delivered before the Marine vehicles, and company
: officials said that move upended their production process until the
: Army agreed to get back in line behind the marines.
: "It is what it is, and we're running as fast as we can to change it,"
: Gordon McGilton, the company's chief executive, said in an interview
: at its plant in Ladson, S.C.
: On July 5, two former employees brought a federal false claims case
: that accuses Force Protection of falsifying records to cover up
: defective workmanship.
: They allege that the actions "compromise the immediate and long term
: integrity of the vehicles and result in a deficient product,"
: according to legal documents filed under seal in the United States
: District Court in Charleston and obtained by The Times.
: The legal claim also accuses the company of falsifying records to
: deceive the military into believing the firm could meet the production
: deadlines.
: The United States Attorney's office in South Carolina declined to
: comment on the case.
: The Marine Corps says the Justice Department did not notify it about
: the case until December.
: Force Protection officials said they had not been made aware of the
: legal case.
: They acknowledged making mistakes in rushing to fill the order, but
: said there were multiple systems in place to monitor the quality of
: the trucks, and that they were not aware of any deficiencies that
: would jeopardize the troops.
: __________________________________________________________
: D'ya we can get anyone in the Chickenhawk Bush Crime Family to respond
: to this?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "boo-radley" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
08 Jan 2006 03:00:13 PM |
|
|
No *****, its' from the Pentagon, those you worship.
.
|
|
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| User: "Tag Heuer" |
|
| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
06 Jan 2006 10:58:53 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:44:31 -0600, Frank Pittel
<fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote:
More leftwing lies from the liars of the nyts.
Hey, Bushite. You callin' SFTT liars? . . . Check this out:
http://www.sftt.org/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=cmpAbout
We know who the Chickenhawks are who caused this *****, and to continue
to support these lies of this Bush administration is not pathetic -
It's treasonous, and an affront to each and every service man and
woman serving in this war in Iraq, which of course was built on false
pretenses.
"It's probably a little early for me to go to Tikrit." --- George W.
Bush, staged video conference w/troops in Iraq, October 13, 2005
In alt.politics.usa.republican Harry Hope <rivrvu@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: From The New York Times, 1/6/06:
: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/politics/06cnd-armor.html?hp&ex=1136610000&en=cba30b2ab5b558f5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
: Extra Armor Could Have Saved Many Lives, Study Shows
: By MICHAEL MOSS
: A secret Pentagon study has found that at least 80 percent of the
: marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body
: could have survived if they had extra body armor.
: That armor has been available since 2003 but until recently the
: Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls
: from the field for additional protection, according to military
: officials.
: The ceramic plates in vests currently worn by the majority of military
: personnel in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back.
: In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the
: Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets
: and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the
: torso where the plates do not reach.
: Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to
: the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had
: the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study,
: which was obtained by The New York Times.
: For the first time, the study by the military's medical examiner shows
: the cost in lost lives from inadequate armor, even as the Pentagon
: continues to publicly defend its protection of the troops.
: Officials have said they are shipping the best armor to Iraq as
: quickly as possible.
: At the same time, they have maintained that it is impossible to shield
: forces from the increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices
: used by insurgents.
: Yet the Pentagon's own study reveals the equally lethal threat of
: bullets.
: The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since
: the start of the war, and is part of a series of problems that have
: surrounded the protection of American troops.
: Still, the Marine Corps did not begin buying additional plates to
: cover the sides of their troops until this September, when it ordered
: 28,800 sets, Marine Corps officials acknowledge.
: The Army, which has the largest force in Iraq, is still deciding what
: to purchase, according to Army procurement officials. They said the
: Army is deciding between various sizes of plates to give its 130,000
: soldiers; the officials said they hope to issue contracts this month.
: Additional forensic studies by the Armed Forces Medical Examiner's
: unit that were obtained by The Times indicate that about 340 American
: troops have died solely from torso wounds.
: Military officials said they had originally decided against using the
: extra plates because they were concerned they added too much weight to
: the vests or constricted the movement of soldiers.
: Marine Corps officials said the findings of the Pentagon study caused
: field commanders to override those concerns in the interest of greater
: protection.
: "As the information became more prevalent and aware to everybody that
: in fact these were casualty sites that they needed to be worried
: about, then people were much more willing to accept that weight on
: their body," said Major Wendell Leimbach, a body armor specialist with
: Marine Corps Systems Command, the marine procurement unit.
: The Pentagon has been collecting the data on wounds since the
: beginning of the war in part to determine the effectiveness of body
: armor.
: The military's medical examiner, Craig T. Mallak, told a military
: panel in 2003 that the information "screams to be published."
: But it would take nearly two years.
: The Marine Corps said it asked for the data in August 2004;
: but it needed to pay the medical examiner $107,000 to have the data
: analyzed.
: Marine officials said funding and other delays resulted in the work
: not starting until December 2004.
: It finally began receiving the information by June 2005.
: The shortfalls in bulletproof vests are just one of the armor problems
: the Pentagon continues to struggle with as the war in Iraq approaches
: the three-year mark, The Times has found in an ongoing examination of
: the military procurement system.
: The production of a new armored truck called the Cougar, which
: military officials said has thus far withstood every insurgent attack,
: has fallen three months behind schedule.
: The small company making the truck has been beset by a host of
: production and legal problems.
: Meanwhile, the Pentagon is still relying on another small factory in
: Ohio to armor all of the military's principal transport truck, the
: Humvee, and it remains backlogged with orders.
: The facility, owned by Armor Holdings, increased production in
: December after reports in The Times about delays drew criticism from
: Congress.
: But the Marine Corps said it is still waiting for about 2,000 of these
: vehicles to replace other Humvees in Iraq that are more lightly
: armored, and does not expect final delivery until June.
: An initiative begun by the Pentagon nearly two years ago to speed up
: production by having additional firms armor new Humvees remains
: incomplete, Army officials said.
: Body armor has gone through a succession of problems in Iraq.
: First, there were prolonged shortages of the plates that make the
: vests bulletproof.
: This year, the Pentagon began replacing the plates with a stronger
: model that is more resistant to certain insurgent attacks.
: Almost from the beginning, some soldiers asked for additional
: protection to stop bullets from slicing through their sides.
: In the fall of 2003, when troops began hanging their crotch protectors
: under their arms, the Army's Rapid Equipping Force shipped several
: hundred plates to protect their sides and shoulders.
: Individual soldiers and units continued to buy their own sets.
: The Army's former acting secretary, Les Brownlee, said in a recent
: interview that he was shown numerous designs for expanded body armor
: back in 2003, and instructed his staff to weigh their benefits against
: the perceived threat without losing sight of the main task:
: eliminating the shortages of plates for the chest and back.
: Army procurement officials said that their efforts to purchase side
: ceramic plates have been encumbered by their much larger force, and
: that they wanted to provide manufacturers with detailed
: specifications.
: Also, they said their plates will be made to resist the stronger
: insurgent attacks.
: The Marines said they opted to take the older version of ceramic to
: speed delivery.
: As of early last month, officials said marines in Iraq had received
: 2,200 of the more than 28,000 sets of plates that are being bought at
: a cost of about $260 each.
: Marine officials said they have supplied troops with soft shoulder
: protection that can repel some shrapnel, but remain concerned that
: ceramic shoulder plates would be too restrictive.
: Similarly, they said they believe the chest and back plates are as
: large as they can be without unduly limiting the movement of troops.
: The Times obtained the 3-page Pentagon report after a military
: advocacy group, Soldiers for the Truth, learned of its existence.
: The group posted an article about the report on its website earlier
: this week.
: The Times delayed publication of this article for more than a week
: until the Pentagon confirmed the veracity of its report.
: Pentagon officials declined to discuss details of the wound data,
: saying it would aid the enemy.
: "Our preliminary research suggests that as many as 42 percent of the
: Marine casualties who died from isolated torso injuries could have
: been prevented with improved protection in the areas surrounding the
: plated areas of the vest," the study concludes.
: Another 23 percent might have been saved with side plates that extend
: below the arms, while 15 percent more could have benefited from
: shoulder plates, the report says. In all, 526 marines have been killed
: in combat in Iraq.
: A total of 1,706 American troops have died in combat.
: The findings and other research by military pathologists suggests that
: an analysis of all combat deaths in Iraq, including those of Army
: personnel, would show that 300 or more lives might have been saved
: with improved body armor.
: Military officials and defense contractors said the Pentagon's
: procurement troubles have stemmed in part from miscalculations that
: underestimated the strength of the insurgency, and from years of
: cost-cutting that left some armoring firms on the brink of collapse as
: they waited for new orders.
: To help defeat roadside ambushes, the military in May 2005 contracted
: to buy 122 Cougars whose special V-shaped hull helps deflect roadside
: bombs, military officials said.
: But the Pentagon gave the job to a small firm in South Carolina, Force
: Protection, that had never mass-produced vehicles.
: Company officials said a string of blunders has pushed the completion
: date to June.
: A dozen prototypes shipped to Iraq have been recalled from the field
: to replace a failing transmission.
: Steel was cut to the wrong size before the truck's design drawings
: were perfected.
: Several managers have left the firm.
: Company officials said they also lost time in an inter-service
: skirmish.
: The Army, which is buying the bulk of the vehicles, asked for its
: trucks to be delivered before the Marine vehicles, and company
: officials said that move upended their production process until the
: Army agreed to get back in line behind the marines.
: "It is what it is, and we're running as fast as we can to change it,"
: Gordon McGilton, the company's chief executive, said in an interview
: at its plant in Ladson, S.C.
: On July 5, two former employees brought a federal false claims case
: that accuses Force Protection of falsifying records to cover up
: defective workmanship.
: They allege that the actions "compromise the immediate and long term
: integrity of the vehicles and result in a deficient product,"
: according to legal documents filed under seal in the United States
: District Court in Charleston and obtained by The Times.
: The legal claim also accuses the company of falsifying records to
: deceive the military into believing the firm could meet the production
: deadlines.
: The United States Attorney's office in South Carolina declined to
: comment on the case.
: The Marine Corps says the Justice Department did not notify it about
: the case until December.
: Force Protection officials said they had not been made aware of the
: legal case.
: They acknowledged making mistakes in rushing to fill the order, but
: said there were multiple systems in place to monitor the quality of
: the trucks, and that they were not aware of any deficiencies that
: would jeopardize the troops.
: __________________________________________________________
: D'ya we can get anyone in the Chickenhawk Bush Crime Family to respond
: to this?
: Harry
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/atom.xml
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: New York Times Report: Extra armor could have saved many lives. |
06 Jan 2006 06:35:05 PM |
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Wool socks would have saved many amputated toes and feet of thousands
of soldiers who were in the Battle of the Bulge.
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| User: "Tag Heuer" |
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| Title: Thank You Harry Hope! |
06 Jan 2006 10:32:09 PM |
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You lyin' stinkin' socialist weasel. Keep up the great work!
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/atom.xml
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Thank You Harry Hope! |
06 Jan 2006 10:51:07 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 04:32:09 GMT, Tag Heuer <tag@you.are.it.com>
wrote:
You lyin' stinkin' socialist weasel. Keep up the great work!
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/atom.xml
Add me to the list of people who admire you tremendous work here and
thank you very much.
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| User: "Tom Quarlous" |
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| Title: Re: Thank You Harry Hope! |
07 Jan 2006 04:25:18 AM |
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On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:51:07 -0800, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 04:32:09 GMT, Tag Heuer <tag@you.are.it.com>
wrote:
You lyin' stinkin' socialist weasel. Keep up the great work!
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/atom.xml
Add me to the list of people who admire you tremendous work here and
thank you very much.
Me, too.
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| User: "r" |
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| Title: Re: Thank You Harry Hope! |
07 Jan 2006 12:09:02 PM |
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Thanks Harry, you are a patriot.
Thanks again
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:51:07 -0800, wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 04:32:09 GMT, Tag Heuer <tag@you.are.it.com>
wrote:
You lyin' stinkin' socialist weasel. Keep up the great work!
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com/atom.xml
Add me to the list of people who admire you tremendous work here and
thank you very much.
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| User: "Political Pagan" |
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| Title: Re: Thank You Harry Hope! |
07 Jan 2006 12:11:51 AM |
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Tag Heuer <tag@you.are.it.com> wrote in
news:1pgur1phbontcknedfed85qn6jg2rlmmrd@4ax.com:
http://tagheuerblog.blogspot.com
Wow, creative blog you have there
This is a paragraph of text that could go in the sidebar. -->
Tag's Blog
Copyright © 2005 - All Rights Reserved
--
"It's interesting. I see all these political ads and all these
commentators say it's our job as Americans to vote. Let me tell
you something, with Bush in charge of the economy, this might
be the only job you have all year." -Jay Leno
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Thank You Harry Hope! |
08 Jan 2006 05:45:26 PM |
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Tag Heuer <tag@you.are.it.com> wrote:
You lyin' stinkin' socialist weasel. Keep up the great work!
Translation: The rightard got his rightard fascist neck stepped on
by the Harry Hope Boot of Truth. Die, Nazi rightard mother fucker.
<smile>
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
"Someone give bush a ***** so we can finally impeach him" -- AVet4Peace
"Frankly, I do not give her the time of day (18:20 MST)" -- Quaoar
"How do you evolutionists explain the Caribbean Explosion?" -- Anonymous
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