| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Captain Compassion" |
| Date: |
09 Mar 2005 01:11:32 AM |
| Object: |
No gain yet, but plenty of pain |
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Mary Ann Sieghart
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1071-1517140,00.html
AT A conference about Europe on Monday, a Dutch politician stood up
and expressed her Government’s fears. “We haven’t had a referendum in
Holland for 200 years. Our people have never been asked what they
thought of Europe. Now we’re finally giving them the chance to tell
us, and we might not like what they say.”
The Netherlands, like nine other EU countries, is holding a referendum
on the proposed new constitution. You might have thought that this
country, a founder member of the EU, would be bound to vote “yes”. In
fact, the contest looks set to be very close. And the result may have
little to do with the constitution itself.
What angers the Dutch about Europe is the possibility of Turkey
joining the EU, and the brazen breaching of the Stability and Growth
Pact by bigger countries such as Germany, France and Italy. Yesterday,
EU finance ministers failed to reach agreement on reform of the pact,
which restricts how much member states can borrow. The Dutch don’t see
why countries that have had to go through painful reforms to meet the
pact’s strict conditions should make allowances for other member
states who have not been brave enough to do so.
At the meeting, finance ministers came up with a huge list of possible
excuses for breaking the pact’s rules: the cost of shoring up pensions
or healthcare systems, any shrinkage in the economy, extra spending on
defence or research and development, the expense of German
reunification, foreign exchange fluctuations. The list of let-outs
became so long that, as a Barclays Bank research note put it: “The
latest proposals seem akin to giving children the key to the sweet
shop.”
The Stability and Growth Pact has caused nothing but trouble among
Europe’s voters. The countries that had difficulty meeting the
criteria have had to introduce unpopular spending cuts, tax rises or
welfare reforms. Voters, of course, blame Brussels for the ensuing
pain. And in those countries that have instead tried to fudge the
criteria, voters resent being lectured — and possibly, in the end,
fined — by the European Commission over what they see as a national
matter.
Yesterday Gordon Brown was furious about the prospect of the
Commission having more power over member states’ finances. “It is
vital,” he said, “that member states retain ownership of their own
fiscal policies. It’s not Britain that has been failing the stability
pact; it’s actually the stability pact that has been failing Britain.”
Luckily, as Britain is outside the eurozone, the Commission has no
power to fine us for any breach of the pact. But yesterday’s
shenanigans in Brussels reminded me of the cartoons drawn by Gus
O’Donnell, the Treasury official in charge of the assessment of
whether Britain should join the euro. To illustrate the drawbacks of
the euro, he drew one tandem with Sir Edward George, then Governor of
the Bank of England, happily steering in front and Mr Brown pedalling
behind. Desperately trying to steer a second tandem was Wim
Duisenberg, then Governor of the European Central Bank, with 12
eurozone finance ministers attempting to climb on the back.
One of his points was that, if a British chancellor takes the right
fiscal and structural decisions about the economy, then the Bank of
England will reward the measures with lower interest rates. In the
eurozone, by contrast, a member state can be as good as gold, but win
no recognition from the ECB because of the antics of less responsible
countries.
The same problem arises over the so-called Lisbon reforms, which were
supposed to make Europe “the most competitive and dynamic
knowledge-based economy in the world” by 2010. EU leaders meet this
month to assess their so far pretty dismal progress at the halfway
mark. Far from turning into a sleek, streamlined growth machine, the
EU has been watching with dismay as the US has streaked into the
distance and India and China have zoomed up on the inside lane.
According to Wim Kok, the former Dutch Prime Minister who wrote a
report on the Lisbon process last year, the plan risks becoming “a
synonym for missed objectives and failed promises”. And since the euro
was introduced, progress towards the Lisbon objectives in the eurozone
has stalled, not accelerated.
For what are the rewards of going through the electoral pain of
cutting social security, facing down trade unions and making hiring
and firing easier? In the long term, as Britain has discovered, such
policies increase growth and employment. But in the short to medium
term, they cause only misery and insecurity, without any bonus from
lower interest rates. As Jean-Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of
Luxembourg, put it: “We all know what we need to do, but we don’t know
how to win elections after we have done it.”
Margaret Thatcher successfully introduced these labour-market reforms.
But she had many more favourable factors on her side. She was able to
govern with a large parliamentary majority rather than a fractious
coalition — and Labour was then lamentably weak. The pain of her
reforms was cushioned by North Sea oil revenues. Her victory in the
Falklands war helped her to win the 1983 election, and by 1987 the
gains from her tough policies were already being felt. What is more,
her actions were a national solution to a national problem. They had
not been dictated by Brussels.
Many EU member states, with elections looming, will shy away from the
required reforms. Others will tell their voters that the European
Commission is to blame. And if those voters turn around and vote “no”
in their referendums, who can blame them? These days, the EU seems to
bring them nothing but pain.
ALSO IN THIS SECTION
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Keeping up with the Joneses can damage your happiness
Grey vote holds key to victory
Now come on, Blair Minor, keep up!
Spare me the war talk, boys, it's just testosterone talking
JOB FINDER
Search for appointments in:
The Times
The Sunday Times
.........................................
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have a simple four-word answer: Save Social Security first."
-- Bill Clinton (January 27, 1998 State of the Union Address)
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: No gain yet, but plenty of pain |
09 Mar 2005 07:37:54 AM |
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"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:0m7t219ggjblnr507fvejfgm8kggenqa77@4ax.com...
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Mary Ann Sieghart
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1071-1517140,00.html
AT A conference about Europe on Monday, a Dutch politician stood up
and expressed her Government's fears. "We haven't had a referendum in
Holland for 200 years. Our people have never been asked what they
thought of Europe. Now we're finally giving them the chance to tell
us, and we might not like what they say."
The Netherlands, like nine other EU countries, is holding a referendum
on the proposed new constitution. You might have thought that this
country, a founder member of the EU, would be bound to vote "yes". In
fact, the contest looks set to be very close. And the result may have
little to do with the constitution itself.
What angers the Dutch about Europe is the possibility of Turkey
joining the EU, and the brazen breaching of the Stability and Growth
Pact by bigger countries such as Germany, France and Italy. Yesterday,
EU finance ministers failed to reach agreement on reform of the pact,
which restricts how much member states can borrow. The Dutch don't see
why countries that have had to go through painful reforms to meet the
pact's strict conditions should make allowances for other member
states who have not been brave enough to do so.
This is what happens when sovereign
nations allow outside organizations
dictate internal policies.
.
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| User: "BlackWater" |
|
| Title: Re: No gain yet, but plenty of pain |
10 Mar 2005 06:16:30 AM |
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On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 07:37:54 -0600, "Bob" <no@email.address> wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:0m7t219ggjblnr507fvejfgm8kggenqa77@4ax.com...
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Mary Ann Sieghart
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1071-1517140,00.html
AT A conference about Europe on Monday, a Dutch politician stood up
and expressed her Government's fears. "We haven't had a referendum in
Holland for 200 years. Our people have never been asked what they
thought of Europe. Now we're finally giving them the chance to tell
us, and we might not like what they say."
The Netherlands, like nine other EU countries, is holding a referendum
on the proposed new constitution. You might have thought that this
country, a founder member of the EU, would be bound to vote "yes". In
fact, the contest looks set to be very close. And the result may have
little to do with the constitution itself.
What angers the Dutch about Europe is the possibility of Turkey
joining the EU, and the brazen breaching of the Stability and Growth
Pact by bigger countries such as Germany, France and Italy. Yesterday,
EU finance ministers failed to reach agreement on reform of the pact,
which restricts how much member states can borrow. The Dutch don't see
why countries that have had to go through painful reforms to meet the
pact's strict conditions should make allowances for other member
states who have not been brave enough to do so.
This is what happens when sovereign
nations allow outside organizations
dictate internal policies.
Yep.
How long do you figure ... before the EU can't
stand itself anymore and starts yet ANOTHER big
war in europe ?
THIS time, we let 'em ROT.
.
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| User: "BlackWater" |
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| Title: Re: No gain yet, but plenty of pain |
09 Mar 2005 07:16:46 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:11:32 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Mary Ann Sieghart
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1071-1517140,00.html
AT A conference about Europe on Monday, a Dutch politician stood up
and expressed her Government’s fears. “We haven’t had a referendum in
Holland for 200 years. Our people have never been asked what they
thought of Europe. Now we’re finally giving them the chance to tell
us, and we might not like what they say.”
The Netherlands, like nine other EU countries, is holding a referendum
on the proposed new constitution. You might have thought that this
country, a founder member of the EU, would be bound to vote “yes”. In
fact, the contest looks set to be very close. And the result may have
little to do with the constitution itself.
What angers the Dutch about Europe is the possibility of Turkey
joining the EU ...
Ah ... they don't want any smelly a-rabs dirtying-up
their nice white EU ! And for all these years we were
told how 'tolerant' the Dutch were. Just a lie ...
.
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| User: "usafguy99" |
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| Title: Re: No gain yet, but plenty of pain |
09 Mar 2005 08:07:21 AM |
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"BlackWater" <bw@barrk.net> wrote in message
news:422ef6d8.5503143@news.east.earthlink.net...
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:11:32 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Mary Ann Sieghart
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1071-1517140,00.html
AT A conference about Europe on Monday, a Dutch politician stood up
and expressed her Government's fears. "We haven't had a referendum in
Holland for 200 years. Our people have never been asked what they
thought of Europe. Now we're finally giving them the chance to tell
us, and we might not like what they say."
The Netherlands, like nine other EU countries, is holding a referendum
on the proposed new constitution. You might have thought that this
country, a founder member of the EU, would be bound to vote "yes". In
fact, the contest looks set to be very close. And the result may have
little to do with the constitution itself.
What angers the Dutch about Europe is the possibility of Turkey
joining the EU ...
Ah ... they don't want any smelly a-rabs dirtying-up
their nice white EU ! And for all these years we were
told how 'tolerant' the Dutch were. Just a lie ...
Did your brain shut down at this point or did you actually read the rest of
the article?
.
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| User: "BlackWater" |
|
| Title: Re: No gain yet, but plenty of pain |
09 Mar 2005 10:10:07 AM |
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On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 08:07:21 -0600, "usafguy99" <andrew@eqdogett.com>
wrote:
"BlackWater" <bw@barrk.net> wrote in message
news:422ef6d8.5503143@news.east.earthlink.net...
On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 07:11:32 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
No gain yet, but plenty of pain. No wonder Europeans are voting 'no'
Mary Ann Sieghart
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1071-1517140,00.html
AT A conference about Europe on Monday, a Dutch politician stood up
and expressed her Government's fears. "We haven't had a referendum in
Holland for 200 years. Our people have never been asked what they
thought of Europe. Now we're finally giving them the chance to tell
us, and we might not like what they say."
The Netherlands, like nine other EU countries, is holding a referendum
on the proposed new constitution. You might have thought that this
country, a founder member of the EU, would be bound to vote "yes". In
fact, the contest looks set to be very close. And the result may have
little to do with the constitution itself.
What angers the Dutch about Europe is the possibility of Turkey
joining the EU ...
Ah ... they don't want any smelly a-rabs dirtying-up
their nice white EU ! And for all these years we were
told how 'tolerant' the Dutch were. Just a lie ...
Did your brain shut down at this point or did you actually read the rest of
the article?
That was all I needed to make the desired comment.
Truthfully though, you've gotta wonder if this
attitude towards the Turks doesn't have some
kind of racist component ....
.
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