| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Jei" |
| Date: |
03 Jan 2004 07:55:36 AM |
| Object: |
No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
By Dafna Linzer
Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq - In nine months, not a single item has been found in Iraq
from a long and classified intelligence list of weapons of mass destruction
which guided the work of dozens of elite teams from Special Forces, the
military, the CIA and the Pentagon during the most secretive, expensive and
fruitless weapons hunt in history.
For U.S. allies, arms control experts and some involved in the hunt, the
lack of evidence in a war premised on the threat of proliferation will have
far reaching consequences in the coming year for the United States in its
efforts to curb Iran, North Korea, Syria and others.
While some argue the Iraq war helped push open the doors of closed regimes
such as Libya and Iran, others say it has only strengthened convictions that
negotiations, U.N. inspections and sanctions work.
A look at new details of Iraq's clandestine efforts and its behavior during
the 13 years when it was supposed to disarm could serve as a lesson for
future moves against any potential proliferator.
The American-led effort has shed new light on Iraqi expertise, some of which
was unknown to U.N. inspectors and hasn't been made public before.
In one case, Iraqis used front companies to import German and Russian-made
missile parts between 1999-2002, the period when they banned U.N. inspectors
from the country. They later lied to inspectors and said some of the parts
were acquired inside Iraq.
"We didn't accept the sanctions then," Dr. Modher Sadeq-Saba al-Tamimi, Iraq
's top missile designer, told The Associated Press. "From 1999-2002 we
bought German and Russian parts," for the al-Samoud missiles which were
later destroyed by returning U.N. inspectors because several tests flights
showed a capability to go beyond a 93-mile U.N. limit.
The purchases, often done through a web of middlemen and front companies,
were investigated by the U.N. but such Iraqi imports wouldn't be considered
a violation. American investigators are still sifting through documents.
Modher is free and has shared his work with British military personnel. Ever
ambitious and talented, he told AP in two separate interviews that he and
his teams dreamed up ingenious designs for long-range missiles that he hoped
to work on once sanctions were lifted.
That information, which also wouldn't be considered a violation by U.N.
inspectors, constitutes the bulk of what the America-led search has learned
in the missile area.
The teams have closed their chemical and nuclear files and David Kay, the
man currently leading the search, is considering stepping down, those
involved in the hunt told AP on condition of anonymity.
The remaining hope for the operation is in the biological area, a field U.N.
inspectors were all suspicious of. Kay's teams have found no evidence Iraq
had smallpox but has continued questioning Iraqi biologists and were
pursuing information about anthrax and aflatoxin.
Of the handful of Iraqi weapons scientists remaining in U.S. custody, two
are missile experts, and seven worked on past biological programs, according
to Iraqi officials now working for the American occupation.
All continue to claim that Iraq hasn't worked on weapons of mass destruction
for years.
Modher said he gave his word to Saddam that the al-Samoud missiles were
designed to conform with U.N. regulations and his staff signed official
letters forswearing proscribed activities.
On Feb. 20, one month before the U.S. attacked, Modher met with Saddam, his
sons and five other men responsible for Iraq's air defenses to discuss the
coming war. "We talked about the preparations." Modher had designed
anti-aircraft missiles "but they were never fired because nobody fought," he
said.
There was no mention in the meeting of other defense systems, such as
chemical or biological weapons, Modher recalled.
To date, Congress has approved $700 million for the weapons hunt, according
to Congressional staff, a figure higher than previously reported. The U.N.
effort during the 1990s cost an estimated $60 million a year, which was paid
by several countries and the United Nations.
The Bush administration began planning its own hunt six months before it
went to war, military officers said.
Working in secret, the Pentagon set up the first U.S. teams designed to
search for, identify and destroy chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
The mission, which military planners expected to be brief, was a failure and
in June the Pentagon announced a larger operation with investigative
capabilities to be led by Kay and Gen. Keith Dayton.
By August the operation, known as the Iraq Survey Group, was underway. Its
most notable determination to date has been that two mobile trailers found
in April and May were not biological laboratories as senior administration
officials had claimed. In a BBC interview Kay called the trailers "a
fiasco."
His first order of business was to throw out a U.S. intelligence list which
inaccurately identified locations of chemical weapons, stores of highly
enriched uranium and laboratories for anthrax and smallpox. He told team
members that working off lists had been a mistake.
Instead, he ran the hunt as an investigation, the way the United Nations had
done when he briefly worked for them in Iraq in 1991. Under Kay's direction,
hundreds of Iraqis were interviewed, some were detained, no one has been
charged. University science professors said ISG staff still come by once a
week to poke around and ask questions.
At first, some ISG members identified themselves as journalists or academics
interested in working on joint research projects, according to university
staff and administrators. Dr. Modher said the ISG team that interviewed him
in November said the meeting would be about privatizing his missile factory.
The CIA declined to comment on ISG activities or methods. It wouldn't
release spending figures for the operation and Kay turned down a request for
an interview. His interim report remains classified.
By contrast, the U.N. teams were required to file public reports every three
months. Their major findings and expenses, later by Iraqi oil proceeds, were
public as well.
Since the war was launched, American allies and U.N. Security Council
members have talked of bolstering the work of U.N. inspectors and have used
negotiations with Iran and North Korea as a way of reducing the threats
those countries could pose.
The United States tried a different route, pushing to rebuke both Iran and
North Korea's nuclear activities in the Security Council but found no
support for the moves.
"As long as the United States has a pre-emptive policy on the books, no one
will pass sanctions against Iran or North Korea," said Hans Blix, the former
chief U.N. inspector who will head a new nonproliferation center based in
Stockholm.
That may be true, said William Kristol, editor of the conservative Weekly
Standard magazine, but he said the sudden attention paid to the issue of
weapons of mass destruction is a tribute to the war.
"I don't believe the Iranians feel more confident that they can get away
with a nuclear program today than they did a year ago," Kristol said.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
.
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| User: "DemsHaveNoMinds" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 08:17:42 AM |
|
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"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
By Dafna Linzer
Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq - In nine months, not a single item has been found in Iraq
from a long and classified intelligence list of weapons of mass
destruction
which guided the work of dozens of elite teams from Special Forces, the
military, the CIA and the Pentagon during the most secretive, expensive
and
fruitless weapons hunt in history.
Well, ain't THAT a bummer! After both Clinton AND the United Nations told
us that Iraq had WMDs and (in Clinton's words) "wouldn't hesitate to use
them", you unbiased AP news writers mean to tell us that both Clinton AND
the United Nations were LYING to us??
Well, damn! Doesn't THAT just frost your socks!!!
The unbiased AP writers are AWESOME!!!
.
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| User: "DemsHaveNoFriends" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 12:25:39 PM |
|
|
"Thumper" <jaylsmithXYZ@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eftdvvstplk8o6t1tv61em0llkdnbc33gg@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:17:42 GMT, "DemsHaveNoMinds"
<DemsMindless@dnc.net> wrote:
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
By Dafna Linzer
Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq - In nine months, not a single item has been found in
Iraq
from a long and classified intelligence list of weapons of mass
destruction
which guided the work of dozens of elite teams from Special Forces, the
military, the CIA and the Pentagon during the most secretive, expensive
and
fruitless weapons hunt in history.
Well, ain't THAT a bummer! After both Clinton AND the United Nations
told
us that Iraq had WMDs and (in Clinton's words) "wouldn't hesitate to use
them", you unbiased AP news writers mean to tell us that both Clinton AND
the United Nations were LYING to us??
Trying to shift the blame away from the LIR-IN-CHIEF won't work.
Thumper
So were Clinton and the United Nations lying to us or not?? Remember, they
said Iraq had WMD's, just as President Bush said. Except they said it even
BEFORE Bush said it.
I guess the Democrats now regard both Bill Clinton AND the United Nations as
liars?? That would appear to be the conclusion we should draw from your
post, Thumper....
.
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| User: "David Schwartz" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
24 Jan 2004 10:47:20 AM |
|
|
"DemsHaveNoFriends" <DemsFriendless@dnc.net> wrote in message
news:DODJb.48776$I07.145827@attbi_s53...
So were Clinton and the United Nations lying to us or not?? Remember,
they
said Iraq had WMD's, just as President Bush said. Except they said it
even
BEFORE Bush said it.
I guess the Democrats now regard both Bill Clinton AND the United Nations
as
liars?? That would appear to be the conclusion we should draw from your
post, Thumper....
Yes, yes, yes, we are all victims of the United Nations and Bill Clinton, oh
we are all victims. Have pity on us Dear God.
Remember how Flip Wilson (in his Geraldine character) used to say, "The
devil made me do it!".
I guess Rene says, "Bill Clintonn and the United Nations made me do it!"
You are a JOKE Rene. I laugh in your general direction, "ha ha".
.
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| User: "George Leroy Tyrebiter Jr." |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 11:47:19 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:17:42 GMT, "DemsHaveNoMinds"
<DemsMindless@dnc.net> wrote:
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
By Dafna Linzer
Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq - In nine months, not a single item has been found in Iraq
from a long and classified intelligence list of weapons of mass
destruction
which guided the work of dozens of elite teams from Special Forces, the
military, the CIA and the Pentagon during the most secretive, expensive
and
fruitless weapons hunt in history.
Well, ain't THAT a bummer! After both Clinton AND the United Nations told
us that Iraq had WMDs and (in Clinton's words) "wouldn't hesitate to use
them",
It's better if you argue from the truth. It makes your argument more
persuasive.
Clinton said that Saddam, if left unchecked, would get weapons and
would use them.
He did not say Saddam had weapons.
So too the UN said that Iraq's proliferation (in the past) meant we
had to watch him, but they did not say Saddam had WMD.
Some UN inspectors thought he probably did have some weapons left.
Others did not.
The UN itself did not state whether Iraq had such weapons before the
US attacked Iraq.
Try being accurate.
It's more challenging.
you unbiased AP news writers mean to tell us that both Clinton AND
the United Nations were LYING to us??
No. Neither Clinton nor the UN said Saddam ham WMD before our attack
on Iraq.
You're hallucinating about that.
Well, damn! Doesn't THAT just frost your socks!!!
The unbiased AP writers are AWESOME!!!
.
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| User: "DDB" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 02:44:00 PM |
|
|
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
Here you go jihad johnny!
"...we have from the outset found ourselves up against a problem, an Iraq
which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction, which were in the
hands of an indisputably dangerous regime and consequently posed a definite
threat to the world. So it was essential to disarm that regime, that
country, to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
--M. JACQUES CHIRAC, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE March 10, 2003
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/France/MFA/france-mfa-chirac-031003.htm
It seems the US leadership was not th eonly one to believe that Saddam was
still armed but it was along with the coalition of the willing one of the
few member naitons willing to do something about it. Why didn't old Europe
live up to their obligations as member of the UN? Why did they help craft
the resolutions they failed to enforce? A world organization without the
will to enforce their own decrees is toothless and evidently Saddam thought
all of their member nations were toothless also. Congratulations France you
destroyed the UN all by your little ole self!
By Dafna Linzer
Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq - In nine months, not a single item has been found in Iraq
from a long and classified intelligence list of weapons of mass
destruction
which guided the work of dozens of elite teams from Special Forces, the
military, the CIA and the Pentagon during the most secretive, expensive
and
fruitless weapons hunt in history.
For U.S. allies, arms control experts and some involved in the hunt, the
lack of evidence in a war premised on the threat of proliferation will
have
far reaching consequences in the coming year for the United States in its
efforts to curb Iran, North Korea, Syria and others.
While some argue the Iraq war helped push open the doors of closed regimes
such as Libya and Iran, others say it has only strengthened convictions
that
negotiations, U.N. inspections and sanctions work.
A look at new details of Iraq's clandestine efforts and its behavior
during
the 13 years when it was supposed to disarm could serve as a lesson for
future moves against any potential proliferator.
The American-led effort has shed new light on Iraqi expertise, some of
which
was unknown to U.N. inspectors and hasn't been made public before.
In one case, Iraqis used front companies to import German and Russian-made
missile parts between 1999-2002, the period when they banned U.N.
inspectors
from the country. They later lied to inspectors and said some of the parts
were acquired inside Iraq.
"We didn't accept the sanctions then," Dr. Modher Sadeq-Saba al-Tamimi,
Iraq
's top missile designer, told The Associated Press. "From 1999-2002 we
bought German and Russian parts," for the al-Samoud missiles which were
later destroyed by returning U.N. inspectors because several tests flights
showed a capability to go beyond a 93-mile U.N. limit.
The purchases, often done through a web of middlemen and front companies,
were investigated by the U.N. but such Iraqi imports wouldn't be
considered
a violation. American investigators are still sifting through documents.
Modher is free and has shared his work with British military personnel.
Ever
ambitious and talented, he told AP in two separate interviews that he and
his teams dreamed up ingenious designs for long-range missiles that he
hoped
to work on once sanctions were lifted.
That information, which also wouldn't be considered a violation by U.N.
inspectors, constitutes the bulk of what the America-led search has
learned
in the missile area.
The teams have closed their chemical and nuclear files and David Kay, the
man currently leading the search, is considering stepping down, those
involved in the hunt told AP on condition of anonymity.
The remaining hope for the operation is in the biological area, a field
U.N.
inspectors were all suspicious of. Kay's teams have found no evidence Iraq
had smallpox but has continued questioning Iraqi biologists and were
pursuing information about anthrax and aflatoxin.
Of the handful of Iraqi weapons scientists remaining in U.S. custody, two
are missile experts, and seven worked on past biological programs,
according
to Iraqi officials now working for the American occupation.
All continue to claim that Iraq hasn't worked on weapons of mass
destruction
for years.
Modher said he gave his word to Saddam that the al-Samoud missiles were
designed to conform with U.N. regulations and his staff signed official
letters forswearing proscribed activities.
On Feb. 20, one month before the U.S. attacked, Modher met with Saddam,
his
sons and five other men responsible for Iraq's air defenses to discuss the
coming war. "We talked about the preparations." Modher had designed
anti-aircraft missiles "but they were never fired because nobody fought,"
he
said.
There was no mention in the meeting of other defense systems, such as
chemical or biological weapons, Modher recalled.
To date, Congress has approved $700 million for the weapons hunt,
according
to Congressional staff, a figure higher than previously reported. The U.N.
effort during the 1990s cost an estimated $60 million a year, which was
paid
by several countries and the United Nations.
The Bush administration began planning its own hunt six months before it
went to war, military officers said.
Working in secret, the Pentagon set up the first U.S. teams designed to
search for, identify and destroy chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.
The mission, which military planners expected to be brief, was a failure
and
in June the Pentagon announced a larger operation with investigative
capabilities to be led by Kay and Gen. Keith Dayton.
By August the operation, known as the Iraq Survey Group, was underway. Its
most notable determination to date has been that two mobile trailers found
in April and May were not biological laboratories as senior administration
officials had claimed. In a BBC interview Kay called the trailers "a
fiasco."
His first order of business was to throw out a U.S. intelligence list
which
inaccurately identified locations of chemical weapons, stores of highly
enriched uranium and laboratories for anthrax and smallpox. He told team
members that working off lists had been a mistake.
Instead, he ran the hunt as an investigation, the way the United Nations
had
done when he briefly worked for them in Iraq in 1991. Under Kay's
direction,
hundreds of Iraqis were interviewed, some were detained, no one has been
charged. University science professors said ISG staff still come by once a
week to poke around and ask questions.
At first, some ISG members identified themselves as journalists or
academics
interested in working on joint research projects, according to university
staff and administrators. Dr. Modher said the ISG team that interviewed
him
in November said the meeting would be about privatizing his missile
factory.
The CIA declined to comment on ISG activities or methods. It wouldn't
release spending figures for the operation and Kay turned down a request
for
an interview. His interim report remains classified.
By contrast, the U.N. teams were required to file public reports every
three
months. Their major findings and expenses, later by Iraqi oil proceeds,
were
public as well.
Since the war was launched, American allies and U.N. Security Council
members have talked of bolstering the work of U.N. inspectors and have
used
negotiations with Iran and North Korea as a way of reducing the threats
those countries could pose.
The United States tried a different route, pushing to rebuke both Iran and
North Korea's nuclear activities in the Security Council but found no
support for the moves.
"As long as the United States has a pre-emptive policy on the books, no
one
will pass sanctions against Iran or North Korea," said Hans Blix, the
former
chief U.N. inspector who will head a new nonproliferation center based in
Stockholm.
That may be true, said William Kristol, editor of the conservative Weekly
Standard magazine, but he said the sudden attention paid to the issue of
weapons of mass destruction is a tribute to the war.
"I don't believe the Iranians feel more confident that they can get away
with a nuclear program today than they did a year ago," Kristol said.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
.
|
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|
| User: "Gaza" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 03:52:18 PM |
|
|
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:_oGdnb_6QM8LtGqiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
Here you go jihad johnny!
"...we have from the outset found ourselves up against a problem, an Iraq
which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction, which were in the
hands of an indisputably dangerous regime and consequently posed a
definite
threat to the world. So it was essential to disarm that regime, that
country, to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
--M. JACQUES CHIRAC, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE March 10, 2003
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/France/MFA/france-mfa-chirac-031003.htm
It seems the US leadership was not th eonly one to believe that Saddam was
still armed but it was along with the coalition of the willing one of the
few member naitons willing to do something about it. Why didn't old Europe
live up to their obligations as member of the UN? Why did they help craft
the resolutions they failed to enforce? A world organization without the
will to enforce their own decrees is toothless and evidently Saddam
thought
all of their member nations were toothless also. Congratulations France
you
destroyed the UN all by your little ole self!
One snippet from a whole article.
You have not even bothered to realise that Chirac was taking in the past
tense.
Iraq which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction.
We are all aware that Saddam HAD WMD, but 98% - 99% were destroyed, many of
them by the first gulf war.
Since you like to be selective, try this one.
There was an inspections regime which destroyed more weapons in Iraq than
were destroyed throughout the Gulf War and which, in particular, resulted in
the complete, almost complete eradication in all likelihood - at any rate
according to what the inspectors say - of Iraq's nuclear programme...
.
|
|
|
| User: "DDB" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 06:35:06 PM |
|
|
"Gaza" <gary.humble&@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7dii$42q0b$1@ID-25439.news.uni-berlin.de...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:_oGdnb_6QM8LtGqiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
Here you go jihad johnny!
"...we have from the outset found ourselves up against a problem, an
Iraq
which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction, which were in the
hands of an indisputably dangerous regime and consequently posed a
definite
threat to the world. So it was essential to disarm that regime, that
country, to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
--M. JACQUES CHIRAC, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE March 10, 2003
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/France/MFA/france-mfa-chirac-031003.htm
It seems the US leadership was not th eonly one to believe that Saddam
was
still armed but it was along with the coalition of the willing one of
the
few member naitons willing to do something about it. Why didn't old
Europe
live up to their obligations as member of the UN? Why did they help
craft
the resolutions they failed to enforce? A world organization without the
will to enforce their own decrees is toothless and evidently Saddam
thought
all of their member nations were toothless also. Congratulations France
you
destroyed the UN all by your little ole self!
One snippet from a whole article.
You have not even bothered to realise that Chirac was taking in the past
tense.
Iraq which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction.
We are all aware that Saddam HAD WMD, but 98% - 99% were destroyed, many
of
them by the first gulf war.
Since you like to be selective, try this one.
There was an inspections regime which destroyed more weapons in Iraq than
were destroyed throughout the Gulf War and which, in particular, resulted
in
the complete, almost complete eradication in all likelihood - at any rate
according to what the inspectors say - of Iraq's nuclear programme...
Perhaps the Nuclear program but what of all the Checmical and Bio weapons?
Q. - Weapons are still being found today...
THE PRESIDENT - There are some certainly. Missiles with a longer than
permitted range are being destroyed. There are probably other weapons.
here's another little tid bit fromt Chirac
Q. - Yet today it isn't 100%. (...) The inspectors are saying this.
THE PRESIDENT - No, the inspectors say that cooperation has improved and
that they are today in a position to pursue their work. And this is what is
of paramount importance. It's not for you or me to say whether the
inspections are effective, whether Iraq is sufficiently cooperative. In
fact, she isn't, I can tell you that straightaway.
On the one hand he says it is not for you or I questoin whether the
inspections are effective or even if Iraq was cooperating, qwell the who's
damn job is it? The the baffoon goes on to say out right that they were not
working but we were to jsut trust that Blind Blix was doing the job right.
.
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| User: "Gaza" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 07:02:44 PM |
|
|
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:yYadncQ20eBdwmqiRVn-hg@comcast.com...
"Gaza" <gary.humble&@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7dii$42q0b$1@ID-25439.news.uni-berlin.de...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:_oGdnb_6QM8LtGqiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
Here you go jihad johnny!
"...we have from the outset found ourselves up against a problem, an
Iraq
which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction, which were in
the
hands of an indisputably dangerous regime and consequently posed a
definite
threat to the world. So it was essential to disarm that regime, that
country, to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
--M. JACQUES CHIRAC, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE March 10, 2003
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/France/MFA/france-mfa-chirac-031003.htm
It seems the US leadership was not th eonly one to believe that Saddam
was
still armed but it was along with the coalition of the willing one of
the
few member naitons willing to do something about it. Why didn't old
Europe
live up to their obligations as member of the UN? Why did they help
craft
the resolutions they failed to enforce? A world organization without
the
will to enforce their own decrees is toothless and evidently Saddam
thought
all of their member nations were toothless also. Congratulations
France
you
destroyed the UN all by your little ole self!
One snippet from a whole article.
You have not even bothered to realise that Chirac was taking in the past
tense.
Iraq which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction.
We are all aware that Saddam HAD WMD, but 98% - 99% were destroyed, many
of
them by the first gulf war.
Since you like to be selective, try this one.
There was an inspections regime which destroyed more weapons in Iraq
than
were destroyed throughout the Gulf War and which, in particular,
resulted
in
the complete, almost complete eradication in all likelihood - at any
rate
according to what the inspectors say - of Iraq's nuclear programme...
Perhaps the Nuclear program but what of all the Checmical and Bio weapons?
Q. - Weapons are still being found today...
THE PRESIDENT - There are some certainly. Missiles with a longer than
permitted range are being destroyed. There are probably other weapons.
here's another little tid bit fromt Chirac
Q. - Yet today it isn't 100%. (...) The inspectors are saying this.
THE PRESIDENT - No, the inspectors say that cooperation has improved and
that they are today in a position to pursue their work. And this is what
is
of paramount importance. It's not for you or me to say whether the
inspections are effective, whether Iraq is sufficiently cooperative. In
fact, she isn't, I can tell you that straightaway.
On the one hand he says it is not for you or I questoin whether the
inspections are effective or even if Iraq was cooperating, qwell the who's
damn job is it? The the baffoon goes on to say out right that they were
not
working but we were to jsut trust that Blind Blix was doing the job right.
You are still missing the point here.
THERE ARE NO WMD IN IRAQ.
Even if Saddam had given 100% co-operation at whatever level, Blix would not
have found any WMD, just as Bush has not found any despite hundreds of U.S.
inspectors who have had total and unrestricted access to Iraq for months.
He has also had Iraqi scientists in custody and now has Saddam in custody,
and still NOTHING.
When are you finally going to admit that Bush undermined the U.N. to start a
fabricated war based on heresay evidence of Iraqi exiles who all has
ulterior motives, and some of which now serve on the Iraqi council.
The blood of American troops is on Bush's hands, as well as thousands of
Iraqi civilians and the destruction of the infrastructure of the country.
Are you proud of this evil *****.
Are you proud of the of the fact that Bush has made America the most hated
country on the planet.
How much longer do you think it will be before most of the other countries
get to the point when they realise that American imperialist power must be
curbed and cut America out from trade agreements
Signs of this were starting to show at the WTO talks when the poor African
countries clubbed together and the talks all but collapsed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DDB" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
03 Jan 2004 09:03:07 PM |
|
|
"Gaza" <gary.humble&@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7oni$48hoe$1@ID-25439.news.uni-berlin.de...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:yYadncQ20eBdwmqiRVn-hg@comcast.com...
"Gaza" <gary.humble&@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7dii$42q0b$1@ID-25439.news.uni-berlin.de...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:_oGdnb_6QM8LtGqiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
Here you go jihad johnny!
"...we have from the outset found ourselves up against a problem, an
Iraq
which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction, which were in
the
hands of an indisputably dangerous regime and consequently posed a
definite
threat to the world. So it was essential to disarm that regime, that
country, to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
--M. JACQUES CHIRAC, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE March 10, 2003
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/France/MFA/france-mfa-chirac-031003.htm
It seems the US leadership was not th eonly one to believe that
Saddam
was
still armed but it was along with the coalition of the willing one
of
the
few member naitons willing to do something about it. Why didn't old
Europe
live up to their obligations as member of the UN? Why did they help
craft
the resolutions they failed to enforce? A world organization without
the
will to enforce their own decrees is toothless and evidently Saddam
thought
all of their member nations were toothless also. Congratulations
France
you
destroyed the UN all by your little ole self!
One snippet from a whole article.
You have not even bothered to realise that Chirac was taking in the
past
tense.
Iraq which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction.
We are all aware that Saddam HAD WMD, but 98% - 99% were destroyed,
many
of
them by the first gulf war.
Since you like to be selective, try this one.
There was an inspections regime which destroyed more weapons in Iraq
than
were destroyed throughout the Gulf War and which, in particular,
resulted
in
the complete, almost complete eradication in all likelihood - at any
rate
according to what the inspectors say - of Iraq's nuclear programme...
Perhaps the Nuclear program but what of all the Checmical and Bio
weapons?
Q. - Weapons are still being found today...
THE PRESIDENT - There are some certainly. Missiles with a longer than
permitted range are being destroyed. There are probably other weapons.
here's another little tid bit fromt Chirac
Q. - Yet today it isn't 100%. (...) The inspectors are saying this.
THE PRESIDENT - No, the inspectors say that cooperation has improved and
that they are today in a position to pursue their work. And this is what
is
of paramount importance. It's not for you or me to say whether the
inspections are effective, whether Iraq is sufficiently cooperative. In
fact, she isn't, I can tell you that straightaway.
On the one hand he says it is not for you or I questoin whether the
inspections are effective or even if Iraq was cooperating, qwell the
who's
damn job is it? The the baffoon goes on to say out right that they were
not
working but we were to jsut trust that Blind Blix was doing the job
right.
You are still missing the point here.
THERE ARE NO WMD IN IRAQ.
Hindsight will never be forsight no matter how much you try to claim such a
thing.
Even if Saddam had given 100% co-operation at whatever level, Blix would
not
have found any WMD, just as Bush has not found any despite hundreds of
U.S.
inspectors who have had total and unrestricted access to Iraq for months.
He has also had Iraqi scientists in custody and now has Saddam in custody,
and still NOTHING.
And again Hindsight is not foresight.
When are you finally going to admit that Bush undermined the U.N. to start
a
fabricated war based on heresay evidence of Iraqi exiles who all has
ulterior motives, and some of which now serve on the Iraqi council.
I will admit that he did jsut as much as France to undermine the UN and only
when France admits the same because that is the only way we heal from here.
The blood of American troops is on Bush's hands, as well as thousands of
Iraqi civilians and the destruction of the infrastructure of the country.
That infrastructure was already destroyed from golf war 1 and since then
even though Saddam had the ability to make his peoples life beter he never
did and instead diverted the oil for food funds away from serving the people
of Iraq and into building palaces for himself allowing his people to suffer.
When will you admit that to be true?
Are you proud of this evil *****.
I sure am he knew what eh had to do and failed to do it.
Are you proud of the of the fact that Bush has made America the most hated
country on the planet.
I wouldn't say that I'd say the Middle East is the most hated area in the
world they're duplicitous and basically liars for the evil ***** some of
their people while hijacking their religion to do it. I might add that
Libya saw the outcome of the war in Iraq and volunteered to disarm so those
rogue states have one less ally they can count on as the wear out their
welcome in other nations as they have done repeatedly before. The only
reason the scum animals survived in Afghanistan is because they ruled it
with and iron fist killing anyone who didn't bend to their will but that has
melted away and even as we speak members of the outlying areas have
collected to write a new constitution, no doubt it will outlaw forever rogue
cults that claim religion as their authorization to do evil things to their
own people.
How much longer do you think it will be before most of the other countries
get to the point when they realise that American imperialist power must be
curbed and cut America out from trade agreements
well you and I won't be alive to see that day because the US even though
France has tried real hard to make it different, still remains the largest
economy in the world. When we prosper others prosper along with us, when
they abuse our open system sooner or later they feal the affects of their
manipulation
Signs of this were starting to show at the WTO talks when the poor African
countries clubbed together and the talks all but collapsed.
Who cares the US still has the number one economy that other nations want to
take advantage of. Ask the Indians they stand to make billions thru their
dealing with the US for that matter China will make a ton also. If the
Middle East could drag their tribal ***** out of the Middle Ages they also
could take advantage of the new worlds open economy. I fear that the Imams
of the Middle East are fighting something that is inevitable and are only
keeping their people from prospering, clearly that is true in Iran but their
people are figuring it out and their imams will soon fall from a leadership
roles as should be the case.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gaza" |
|
| Title: Re: No WMDs Found - War Based on Lies and Disinformation |
06 Jan 2004 05:25:33 PM |
|
|
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AumdnZ05CaTvH2qi4p2dnA@comcast.com...
"Gaza" <gary.humble&@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7oni$48hoe$1@ID-25439.news.uni-berlin.de...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:yYadncQ20eBdwmqiRVn-hg@comcast.com...
"Gaza" <gary.humble&@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bt7dii$42q0b$1@ID-25439.news.uni-berlin.de...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:_oGdnb_6QM8LtGqiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
"Jei" <jei@horus.hut.fi> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0401031553300.23135@horus.hut.fi...
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2519764.php
December 31, 2003
No WMDs could hurt efforts to curb Iran, Libya, others
Here you go jihad johnny!
"...we have from the outset found ourselves up against a problem,
an
Iraq
which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction, which were
in
the
hands of an indisputably dangerous regime and consequently posed a
definite
threat to the world. So it was essential to disarm that regime,
that
country, to eliminate its weapons of mass destruction."
--M. JACQUES CHIRAC, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE March 10, 2003
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/France/MFA/france-mfa-chirac-031003.htm
It seems the US leadership was not th eonly one to believe that
Saddam
was
still armed but it was along with the coalition of the willing one
of
the
few member naitons willing to do something about it. Why didn't
old
Europe
live up to their obligations as member of the UN? Why did they
help
craft
the resolutions they failed to enforce? A world organization
without
the
will to enforce their own decrees is toothless and evidently
Saddam
thought
all of their member nations were toothless also. Congratulations
France
you
destroyed the UN all by your little ole self!
One snippet from a whole article.
You have not even bothered to realise that Chirac was taking in the
past
tense.
Iraq which obviously possessed weapons of mass destruction.
We are all aware that Saddam HAD WMD, but 98% - 99% were destroyed,
many
of
them by the first gulf war.
Since you like to be selective, try this one.
There was an inspections regime which destroyed more weapons in Iraq
than
were destroyed throughout the Gulf War and which, in particular,
resulted
in
the complete, almost complete eradication in all likelihood - at any
rate
according to what the inspectors say - of Iraq's nuclear
programme...
Perhaps the Nuclear program but what of all the Checmical and Bio
weapons?
Q. - Weapons are still being found today...
THE PRESIDENT - There are some certainly. Missiles with a longer than
permitted range are being destroyed. There are probably other weapons.
here's another little tid bit fromt Chirac
Q. - Yet today it isn't 100%. (...) The inspectors are saying this.
THE PRESIDENT - No, the inspectors say that cooperation has improved
and
that they are today in a position to pursue their work. And this is
what
is
of paramount importance. It's not for you or me to say whether the
inspections are effective, whether Iraq is sufficiently cooperative.
In
fact, she isn't, I can tell you that straightaway.
On the one hand he says it is not for you or I questoin whether the
inspections are effective or even if Iraq was cooperating, qwell the
who's
damn job is it? The the baffoon goes on to say out right that they
were
not
working but we were to jsut trust that Blind Blix was doing the job
right.
You are still missing the point here.
THERE ARE NO WMD IN IRAQ.
Hindsight will never be forsight no matter how much you try to claim such
a
thing.
This is not about hindsight.
This was about starting a war against another U.N. member.
This was about Bush continually spouting to the world that not only did he
have proof of these WMD, but that he also knew exactly where they were
(Powell's rediculous evidence)
How can this possibly been true when not one single WMD has been found.
How could Bush have continually spouted this to the world when it is now
certain that there were no WMD.
And because of this, Bush has ended up killing hundreds of American troops.
And as of this moment we have yet to hear Bush say that he may have made a
mistake, or even apologise for making it.
Bush has now started to change his stance and lie agian by saying that WMD
are not important any more and that getting Saddam was the real aim of the
war.
This is patently untrue and was not the reason he gave to congress to obtain
permission to delcales war against Iraq.
Even if Saddam had given 100% co-operation at whatever level, Blix would
not
have found any WMD, just as Bush has not found any despite hundreds of
U.S.
inspectors who have had total and unrestricted access to Iraq for
months.
He has also had Iraqi scientists in custody and now has Saddam in
custody,
and still NOTHING.
And again Hindsight is not foresight.
Any real proof would have been enough, instead of the lies he spouted and
the rest of the world saw right through.
When are you finally going to admit that Bush undermined the U.N. to
start
a
fabricated war based on heresay evidence of Iraqi exiles who all has
ulterior motives, and some of which now serve on the Iraqi council.
I will admit that he did jsut as much as France to undermine the UN and
only
when France admits the same because that is the only way we heal from
here.
Yet another lie.
You speak as if France was the only country in the U.N. which opposed Bush.
Bush could not even get the required 9 votes on the U.N.S.C. which would
have given him a majority.
How soon you forget, that China and Russia both threatened to use their veto
too.
France was not the isolated country that Bush has tried to use as the scape
goat and target for him not getting the resolution he wanted to go to war
with Iraq.
France was merely the most outspoken, but it was definetely in a majority.
Bush would have been lucky to get any more than 5 votes including America
and Britain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2769839.stm
So lets not here any more of this crap about France being the only country
in the U.N. which opposed the Iraqi war, because this is simply another of
Bush's total fabrication.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2617783.stm
Here also is a cite from 31st December 2002, a few months before the
invasion in which Kofi Annan declares that there is no basis for the war in
Iraq, and that absolutely no proof has been found to justify the war.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2564271.stm
Here is one which shows that not only was Saddam cooperating with the U.N.
but that at the same time Bush was undermining it by bribing Ubine of
Columbia to obtain Saddam's 12000 page report and then censoring it to the
tune of 8000 pages before it went to the rest of the U.N.S.C.
We will never know the scope of Saddam's co-operation in this report. For
all we know, he could have supplied all kinds of evidence to prove he had
actually destroyed all of his remaining WMD.
We will never know, because Bush conspired to keep this information from the
rest of the world.
That infrastructure was already destroyed from gulf war 1 and since then
even though Saddam had the ability to make his peoples life beter he never
did and instead diverted the oil for food funds away from serving the
people
of Iraq and into building palaces for himself allowing his people to
suffer.
When will you admit that to be true?
The amount of money coming into the country has always been extremely
limited
The infrastucture was in an infinetely better state before Bush destroyed
maost of it with cluster bombs and perposely targeting the water, and power
supplies in his fabricated war (something that is strictly against the
Geneva convention)
Amazingly, The country WAS actually better off under Saddam's rule than it
is now, 9 months after Bush had it bombed to hell.
The only thing that has changed in Iraq for the people is the identity of
their dictator
Are you proud of this evil *****.
I sure am he knew what eh had to do and failed to do it.
Are you proud of the of the fact that Bush has made America the most
hated
country on the planet.
I wouldn't say that I'd say the Middle East is the most hated area in the
world they're duplicitous and basically liars for the evil ***** some of
their people while hijacking their religion to do it. I might add that
Libya saw the outcome of the war in Iraq and volunteered to disarm so
those
rogue states have one less ally they can count on as the wear out their
welcome in other nations as they have done repeatedly before. The only
reason the scum animals survived in Afghanistan is because they ruled it
with and iron fist killing anyone who didn't bend to their will but that
has
melted away and even as we speak members of the outlying areas have
collected to write a new constitution, no doubt it will outlaw forever
rogue
cults that claim religion as their authorization to do evil things to
their
own people.
This may have been true in the past, but they have gained a lot of sympathy
world wide where as Bush has now become the world's most hated man.
He has now made America in general, the most feared and hated country.
http://www.iht.com/articles/98398.html
http://www.aaiusa.org/news/aainews103102.htm
http://www.boston.com/news/world/latinamerica/articles/2003/10/28/poll_latin
_america_has_dismal_view_of_bush/
http://www.geocities.com/ericsquire/articles/ftaa/reuters031028b.htm
How much longer do you think it will be before most of the other
countries
get to the point when they realise that American imperialist power must
be
curbed and cut America out from trade agreements
well you and I won't be alive to see that day because the US even though
France has tried real hard to make it different, still remains the largest
economy in the world. When we prosper others prosper along with us, when
they abuse our open system sooner or later they feal the affects of their
manipulation
This is already in progress.
Bush has made America more reliant on debt than at any time in the history
of your country
The dollar is falling in value against every other currancy and as a
consequence is now falling short of foreign investment.
Your currency is now at the most unstable it has ever been at a time when
the Euro is being seen inreasingly seen as the future world currency because
it is backed up by a collection of countries.
The last nail in the coffin will be the major oil producing countries to
gain the courage to begin trading their oil in Euros instead of dollars and
the American economy will literally collapse over night.
Considering most of these countries are in the middle east and the war in
Iraq is increasingly being seen as a 'Crusade' (Bush's actual words, not
mine) against Muslims, I would estimate that this will happen well within my
lifelime, possibly within the next ten years.
Who cares the US still has the number one economy that other nations want
to
take advantage of. Ask the Indians they stand to make billions thru their
dealing with the US for that matter China will make a ton also. If the
Middle East could drag their tribal ***** out of the Middle Ages they also
could take advantage of the new worlds open economy. I fear that the Imams
of the Middle East are fighting something that is inevitable and are only
keeping their people from prospering, clearly that is true in Iran but
their
people are figuring it out and their imams will soon fall from a
leadership
roles as should be the case.
The U.S. economy no longer belongs to America.
It belongs to your creditors.
Creditors who will sooner or later cut their losses as they see the value of
their loans drop in value as the dollar continues it's slide into oblivion.
It also belongs to the big corporations who are now outsourcing your jobs to
India and Pakistan and your manufacturing to China and Japan.
If the major oil suppliers decide (and correctly so) that it will be in
their financial interests to change their trading currency, then you can
kiss goodbye to the American dollar's only prop, and you can look back at
this conversation and realise that it is all Bush's fault for creating your
hugh debt and fabricated wars.
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