| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Ramon F Herrera" |
| Date: |
21 Dec 2006 11:18:19 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Economic growth driven by increased immigrant quotas |
Hoy Paloy wrote:
I'm serious, read the article below. It goes without saying that no
normal American with eyes and brain would write this. Quotas too low?
We have more legal immigration than the rest of the world combined.
Alcibiades/Hoy Paloy claims:
"We are the biggest consumer of electricity in the world, therefore the
government should make laws to make sure that we don't import a
megawatt of electricity from foreign countries".
"We are the biggest consumer of wine in the world, therefore the
government should make laws to make sure that we don't import a bottle
of wine from France and specially from Chile because we should not
consume wines touched by brown hands".
"We are the biggest consumer of cars in the world, therefore the
government should make laws to make sure that we don't import a single
car from foreign countries, specially from Mexico because I will not
put my ***** in a seat assembled with brown hands, as I could get e-coli
through my rectum".
....and so on, with every good or service, up to, and specially in the
labor marketplace
It is clear that you only had an education in computer science and
don't have the slightest clue about economics. There is something
called full employment which means that we need more workers. The
government solution so far has been to look the other way and allow the
invisible hand of markets to do its job. Now, we may have to be more
strict on border control BUT we will definitely (want to bet? so far I
have a perfect score in my predictions) have to compensate by allowing
more legal worker to enter and occupy the positions which will produce
economic GROWTH. Don't like growth with darker skinned immigrants? Move
to Japan.
If anybody bothers to Google your posts (previously posted under
Alcibiades when you were descendant of Greeks, and now under Hoy Paloy
now that you are of pure Nordic blood) they will realize that you are
an avowed racist, intolerant, xenophobic, hater. In addition to
hispanics, you hate democrats, but you hate business as well.
When are you and the rest of so-called "conservatives" going to start
your own party? We, the democratic party sympathizers do not want you
around, and we, the republican party sympathizers don't want around,
either.
-Ramon F Herrera
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| User: "Dersu Uzala" |
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| Title: Re: Economic growth driven by increased immigrant quotas |
22 Dec 2006 10:27:23 PM |
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In article <1166764699.796590.201890@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
ramon@conexus.net says...
Hoy Paloy wrote:
I'm serious, read the article below. It goes without saying that no
normal American with eyes and brain would write this. Quotas too low?
We have more legal immigration than the rest of the world combined.
Alcibiades/Hoy Paloy claims:
"We are the biggest consumer of electricity in the world, therefore the
government should make laws to make sure that we don't import a
megawatt of electricity from foreign countries".
"We are the biggest consumer of wine in the world, therefore the
government should make laws to make sure that we don't import a bottle
of wine from France and specially from Chile because we should not
consume wines touched by brown hands".
"We are the biggest consumer of cars in the world, therefore the
government should make laws to make sure that we don't import a single
car from foreign countries, specially from Mexico because I will not
put my ***** in a seat assembled with brown hands, as I could get e-coli
through my rectum".
...and so on, with every good or service, up to, and specially in the
labor marketplace
It is clear that you only had an education in computer science and
don't have the slightest clue about economics. There is something
called full employment which means that we need more workers. The
government solution so far has been to look the other way and allow the
invisible hand of markets to do its job. Now, we may have to be more
strict on border control BUT we will definitely (want to bet? so far I
have a perfect score in my predictions) have to compensate by allowing
more legal worker to enter and occupy the positions which will produce
economic GROWTH. Don't like growth with darker skinned immigrants? Move
to Japan.
If anybody bothers to Google your posts (previously posted under
Alcibiades when you were descendant of Greeks, and now under Hoy Paloy
now that you are of pure Nordic blood) they will realize that you are
an avowed racist, intolerant, xenophobic, hater. In addition to
hispanics, you hate democrats, but you hate business as well.
When are you and the rest of so-called "conservatives" going to start
your own party? We, the democratic party sympathizers do not want you
around, and we, the republican party sympathizers don't want around,
either.
-Ramon F Herrera
Your analogy sucks Ramon. When did a Toyota or a bottle of wine ever go to an
emergency room and got free care? I wasn't aware that Quebec electricity was
contributing to the housing shortage.
As to "full employment", many people are underemployed, that is, their job is
less skilled that their training. I am sure you have had a cabbie with a PhD
before, since you are a Cantabridgian. The invisible hand should rise wages if
it wants more workers. Then the discouraged, the idle, and others not in the
labor market will re-enter the ranks of the employed.
And I'm confused about the health of the economy. Is it booming, and therefore
needs more immigrants, due to labor shortages, or is it sluggish, and
therefore needs immigrants that "... will produce economic GROWTH."
Nice to have it both ways, huh?
-Dersu
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| User: "Enough Already" |
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| Title: Economic growth is just population growth (in developed nations) |
22 Dec 2006 01:15:14 PM |
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Ramon F Herrera wrote (in post: "Re: Economic growth driven by
increased immigrant quotas")
It is clear that you only had an education in computer science and
don't have the slightest clue about economics. There is something
called full employment which means that we need more workers.
But there never has been and never will be full employment. It's
unworkable in a growth-based economy. More labor is needed because it
feeds its own consumption. An analogy is a farm couple who never stops
having kids; for the sole purpose of expanding their land holdings.
Having more farmhands doesn't make their lives "better," just more
complicated and frantic. More details to manage and less time to relax
(sound familiar?) When you add labor, you also add costs and it quickly
becomes a zero sum game. Our whole economy functions like that farm,
with a certain segment profiting from growth but the rest becoming
enslaved to it.
The whole job-creation cycle is a chicken and egg feedback loop.
Population growth just thins out material wealth among more people.
We've already got plenty of manufacturing efficiency, so many hands
remain idle. The large size of the world tends to mask physical limits,
which some people won't consider until a wall is hit. The global
peaking of oil production is one wall we may not get past.
The credit/debt cycle and fancier gadgets create an illusion of wealth,
but growing pressure on nature tells the real story. We've got a
serious problem with depletion of ocean fisheries (more people eating
diminishing stocks). Forests are under daily assault, especially in the
tropics. Water shortages threaten most arid regions and growth keeps
adding to the thirst. Global warming is real and man-made, despite
ignorant ego-based protestations. CO2 levels are directly tied to
population size. Do none of these things register with you?
The government solution so far has been to look the other way and allow the
invisible hand of markets to do its job. Now, we may have to be more
strict on border control BUT we will definitely (want to bet? so far I
have a perfect score in my predictions) have to compensate by allowing
more legal worker to enter and occupy the positions which will produce
economic GROWTH. Don't like growth with darker skinned immigrants? Move
to Japan.
But growth ITSELF is the problem! You've been blinded by the status-quo
since birth. Try to step outside it as if you were studying an
overcrowded anthill. An economy that can't function without
cannibalizing more resources and land is not sustainable. That's
exactly how "economic growth" works in already-developed nations. It
reaches a plateau where it stops helping people, and it certainly
doesn't help wilderness remain intact.
In terms of improving the human condition, growth can be good during a
certain period when it raises standards of living. Beyond that it just
causes pointless crowding and ecological shrinkage. That's why we need
a steady-state system, not more people, traffic jams, crowded airports,
crowded schools, crowded prisons, long lines, paved farmland, vanishing
habitat, more noise, etc.. Growth-addicts ignore all of that as if it's
necessary for some higher purpose. There is much religious denial of
physical limits. Some think Jesus is coming and God will be angry if we
don't consume everything "He put here" for us.
Economic "refinement" is a good thing, but a constant increase in
numbers (i.e. scale) makes our energy, food and climate situation more
precarious. Once you drop cornucopian fantasies of infinite resources
it's apparent that growthism is a pyramid scheme. Think quality, not
quantity and you may get the point.
E.A.
http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
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