Politics > Politics-USA > Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing elections. Real bummer.
| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"JoettaB" |
| Date: |
09 Nov 2003 06:53:29 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing elections. Real bummer. |
"JoettaB" <joetta_l_bragg@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:...
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:Lpkrb.149189$HS4.1225103@attbi_s01...
JoettaB wrote:
<snip>
I don't recall saying anything about changing the past
or
arguing with the decision. I simply stated that the
facts
were the facts and there isn't much we can do about
anything
that has already occurred. However, I have, for quite
some
time, been pushing for electoral college and campaign
reform, if that's what you mean. I think the electoral
college has outlived its initial purpose and I believe
that
campaign monies could be spent more productively
elsewhere.
Why do you believe the electoral system is "outlived"?
Sorry, I hit the send button inadvertently.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm
"The Founders intended electoral votes to be cast by
electors who would be more knowledgeable than the general
public, rather than by popular mandate, and the Founders
envisioned that in most cases the final decision would be
made by the House of Representatives rather than the
electors anyway."
The general public no longer needs someone to tell them who
to vote for. With the onslaught of both media and education
available to everyone, people have both the education and
ability to determine who should become or not become
president.
.
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| User: "Bryan" |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
09 Nov 2003 10:41:30 PM |
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JoettaB wrote:
"JoettaB" <joetta_l_bragg@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:...
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:Lpkrb.149189$HS4.1225103@attbi_s01...
JoettaB wrote:
<snip>
I don't recall saying anything about changing the past
or
arguing with the decision. I simply stated that the
facts
were the facts and there isn't much we can do about
anything
that has already occurred. However, I have, for quite
some
time, been pushing for electoral college and campaign
reform, if that's what you mean. I think the electoral
college has outlived its initial purpose and I believe
that
campaign monies could be spent more productively
elsewhere.
Why do you believe the electoral system is "outlived"?
Sorry, I hit the send button inadvertently.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm
"The Founders intended electoral votes to be cast by
electors who would be more knowledgeable than the general
public, rather than by popular mandate, and the Founders
envisioned that in most cases the final decision would be
made by the House of Representatives rather than the
electors anyway."
The general public no longer needs someone to tell them who
to vote for. With the onslaught of both media and education
available to everyone, people have both the education and
ability to determine who should become or not become
president.
It is still representative. It has worked well for centuries. Votes in
a given pecinct serve to indirectly elect the candidate of your choice.
.
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| User: "JoettaB" |
|
| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing elections. Real bummer. |
09 Nov 2003 11:11:37 PM |
|
|
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:_FErb.114173$mZ5.769206@attbi_s54...
<snip>
It is still representative. It has worked well for
centuries.
So did slavery. Just because something has been and even
worked doesn't mean it's just or not subject to change.
Votes in
a given pecinct serve to indirectly elect the candidate of
your choice.
It's an opinion, of course, but when we begin putting
presidents in office that don't represent the popular vote,
I do not believe it is working. Much debate is going on
about election reform (not just in the US, either). I am
hopeful that as the US moved away from the original
presidential appointments to the electoral college and as
the electoral college reformed over the years, new reforms
will continue to occur. Nothing in life should be
stagnant--especially not something as not this important.
.
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| User: "BW" |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing elections. Real bummer. |
10 Nov 2003 06:07:05 AM |
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"JoettaB" <joetta_l_bragg@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TrydndH-F9mUgzKi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com...
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:_FErb.114173$mZ5.769206@attbi_s54...
<snip>
It is still representative. It has worked well for
centuries.
So did slavery. Just because something has been and even
worked doesn't mean it's just or not subject to change.
Democrats felt our election process was working well UNTIL the Democrat
Party began going down the tubes....
.
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| User: "loaferboss" |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
10 Nov 2003 08:05:45 AM |
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From: "BW" <bw4@verizon.net>
Organization: Comcast Online
Newsgroups: alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:07:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing
elections. Real bummer.
"JoettaB" <joetta_l_bragg@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TrydndH-F9mUgzKi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com...
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:_FErb.114173$mZ5.769206@attbi_s54...
<snip>
It is still representative. It has worked well for
centuries.
So did slavery. Just because something has been and even
worked doesn't mean it's just or not subject to change.
Democrats felt our election process was working well UNTIL the Democrat
Party began going down the tubes....
And, of course, until Republican state governors and legislatures starting
buying computerized electronic voting machinery from Republican operatives
hiding behind supposedly non-partisan companies - i.e, Diebold.
And until Republican governors started instructing state officials to remove
convicted felons, or supposedly convicted felons, or just plain people who
might share the same name as a convicted felon, from the voting lists and
then, in spite of rulings from courts of its illegality, refused to
reinstate those names ...
Yeah, until then it was going pretty good - <g>
.
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| User: "JoettaB" |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
10 Nov 2003 09:41:27 AM |
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"loaferboss" <loaferboss@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BBD51379.871D%loaferboss@comcast.net...
From: "BW" <bw4@verizon.net>
Organization: Comcast Online
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics
..usa
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:07:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves
neato-jet, but keep losing
elections. Real bummer.
"JoettaB" <joetta_l_bragg@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:TrydndH-F9mUgzKi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com...
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:_FErb.114173$mZ5.769206@attbi_s54...
<snip>
It is still representative. It has worked well for
centuries.
So did slavery. Just because something has been and
even
worked doesn't mean it's just or not subject to change.
Democrats felt our election process was working well
UNTIL the Democrat
Party began going down the tubes....
And, of course, until Republican state governors and
legislatures starting
buying computerized electronic voting machinery from
Republican operatives
hiding behind supposedly non-partisan companies - i.e,
Diebold.
And until Republican governors started instructing state
officials to remove
convicted felons, or supposedly convicted felons, or just
plain people who
might share the same name as a convicted felon, from the
voting lists and
then, in spite of rulings from courts of its illegality,
refused to
reinstate those names ...
Yeah, until then it was going pretty good - <g>
Exactly.
.
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| User: "Bryan" |
|
| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
10 Nov 2003 06:29:54 PM |
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loaferboss wrote:
From: "BW" <bw4@verizon.net>
Organization: Comcast Online
Newsgroups: alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:07:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing
elections. Real bummer.
"JoettaB" <joetta_l_bragg@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TrydndH-F9mUgzKi4p2dnA@wideopenwest.com...
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:_FErb.114173$mZ5.769206@attbi_s54...
<snip>
It is still representative. It has worked well for
centuries.
So did slavery. Just because something has been and even
worked doesn't mean it's just or not subject to change.
Democrats felt our election process was working well UNTIL the Democrat
Party began going down the tubes....
And, of course, until Republican state governors and legislatures starting
buying computerized electronic voting machinery from Republican operatives
hiding behind supposedly non-partisan companies - i.e, Diebold.
And until Republican governors started instructing state officials to remove
convicted felons, or supposedly convicted felons, or just plain people who
might share the same name as a convicted felon, from the voting lists and
then, in spite of rulings from courts of its illegality, refused to
reinstate those names ...
Yeah, until then it was going pretty good - <g>
Well, it's good to see you have a vivid imagination. Forget the
intrigue.... if a law has been broken, then we should be aware of the
subsequent prosecution.
.
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| User: "Bryan" |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
10 Nov 2003 05:58:39 PM |
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JoettaB wrote:
"Bryan" <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:_FErb.114173$mZ5.769206@attbi_s54...
<snip>
It is still representative. It has worked well for
centuries.
So did slavery. Just because something has been and even
worked doesn't mean it's just or not subject to change.
Votes in
a given pecinct serve to indirectly elect the candidate of
your choice.
It's an opinion, of course, but when we begin putting
presidents in office that don't represent the popular vote,
I do not believe it is working. Much debate is going on
about election reform (not just in the US, either). I am
hopeful that as the US moved away from the original
presidential appointments to the electoral college and as
the electoral college reformed over the years, new reforms
will continue to occur. Nothing in life should be
stagnant--especially not something as not this important.
Interesting concept.... so a State with a few huge cities decides the
outcome of the election? In reference to the 2000 election, the fact
that Bush carried more States in the Union, is less important than the
outcome of the millions to be found in some cities.
Consider that the needs of America are broader than a few highly
populated cities.
.
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| User: "Marie A." |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing elections. Real bummer. |
10 Nov 2003 10:04:19 PM |
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Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message news:<PCVrb.165994$Fm2.144337@attbi_s04>...
Interesting concept.... so a State with a few huge cities decides the
outcome of the election? In reference to the 2000 election, the fact
that Bush carried more States in the Union, is less important than the
outcome of the millions to be found in some cities.
Consider that the needs of America are broader than a few highly
populated cities.
You'd better believe that's what they'd like to see happen, Bryan.
Just ask yourself the ethnic makeup of all these large cities, how
they're gerrymandered and their voting patterns and PRESTO! - you have
your answer. If New York and California had their way, the other 49
states would have a 10 percent state sales tax, sky high car
registration fees, unlimited illegal immigration and driver's licenses
for same, property taxes through the roof, welfare for all comers and
jail time for anyone who looked cross-eyed at a homosexual.
Cordially, Marie
.
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| User: "loaferboss" |
|
| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
11 Nov 2003 08:03:50 AM |
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From: (Marie A.)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa
Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:04:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing
elections. Real bummer.
Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:<PCVrb.165994$Fm2.144337@attbi_s04>...
Interesting concept.... so a State with a few huge cities decides the
outcome of the election? In reference to the 2000 election, the fact
that Bush carried more States in the Union, is less important than the
outcome of the millions to be found in some cities.
Consider that the needs of America are broader than a few highly
populated cities.
You'd better believe that's what they'd like to see happen, Bryan.
Just ask yourself the ethnic makeup of all these large cities, how
they're gerrymandered and their voting patterns and PRESTO! - you have
your answer. If New York and California had their way, the other 49
states would have a 10 percent state sales tax, sky high car
registration fees, unlimited illegal immigration and driver's licenses
for same, property taxes through the roof, welfare for all comers and
jail time for anyone who looked cross-eyed at a homosexual.
Now, of course, this is - again - intellectually dishonest. If elections are
truly *the will of the people* then people are entitled to vote where they
live - now that's pretty basic.
What Marie and her boy toy here would have us believe is that, because
people prefer - totally of their own choice - to live in big cities and such
states as California and New York, somehow their votes are *lesser* than
those who prefer to live in Montana, or Alabama, or another less populated
state.
Now, of course, that's poppycock - but she THEN goes on from that to somehow
figure that California and New York in some way determine the sales tax, car
registration and property tax fees. Now how they do that she doesn't say -
just that it is some secret goal the people of the state, or the leaders -
not sure, for she only says cryptically that *New York and California*
somehow desire this, as if the physical entities themselves have risen as a
land mass and decided this.
But still she screeds on - not content to assume these land masses have
secret tax leveraging power, she goes on - these huge tracts of land also
want welfare for all comers (is this another Clinton reference, not sure)
and *jail time for anyone who looked cross-eyed at a homosexual.*
Wow - it is staggering, isn't it? Apparently, although last I checked
counties and state houses determined taxes, Marie knows better. Of course,
since local municipalities have had to do with far less since the big cowboy
with the word of God hit town, somehow it's the largely-populated states,
gerrymandered to allow the special interests (which of course mean the 'N'
word) to get more votes than the real people, who make the laws and raise
the property taxes on the poor corporate farmer in Idaho with several
hundred thousand acres to till by hand ...
Amazing - hard to imagine, but it's all above ... "just ask yourself the
ethnic makeup of these large cities, Bryan," she writes. Proving once again
that when it comes right down to it, for little Miss Marie at least, it's
all about groups - and her distasteful view of those she deems unworthy.
Perhaps she hears the sound of distant goosesteps - perhaps the sound of her
own voice rising powerfully over the masses of inferiors - but whatever the
case, Angelica has always said it better, and often with better syntax.
Oh wait, syntax - another *demmie* plot, no doubt, caused by some great land
mass - Pennsylvania, perhaps?
.
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| User: "Bryan" |
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| Title: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losingelections. Real bummer. |
11 Nov 2003 10:46:10 PM |
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loaferboss wrote:
From: (Marie A.)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.democrats,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa
Date: 10 Nov 2003 20:04:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Libs frustrated. Think themselves neato-jet, but keep losing
elections. Real bummer.
Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:<PCVrb.165994$Fm2.144337@attbi_s04>...
Interesting concept.... so a State with a few huge cities decides the
outcome of the election? In reference to the 2000 election, the fact
that Bush carried more States in the Union, is less important than the
outcome of the millions to be found in some cities.
Consider that the needs of America are broader than a few highly
populated cities.
You'd better believe that's what they'd like to see happen, Bryan.
Just ask yourself the ethnic makeup of all these large cities, how
they're gerrymandered and their voting patterns and PRESTO! - you have
your answer. If New York and California had their way, the other 49
states would have a 10 percent state sales tax, sky high car
registration fees, unlimited illegal immigration and driver's licenses
for same, property taxes through the roof, welfare for all comers and
jail time for anyone who looked cross-eyed at a homosexual.
Now, of course, this is - again - intellectually dishonest. If elections are
truly *the will of the people* then people are entitled to vote where they
live - now that's pretty basic.
What Marie and her boy toy here would have us believe is that, because
people prefer - totally of their own choice - to live in big cities and such
states as California and New York, somehow their votes are *lesser* than
those who prefer to live in Montana, or Alabama, or another less populated
state.
Now, of course, that's poppycock - but she THEN goes on from that to somehow
figure that California and New York in some way determine the sales tax, car
registration and property tax fees. Now how they do that she doesn't say -
just that it is some secret goal the people of the state, or the leaders -
not sure, for she only says cryptically that *New York and California*
somehow desire this, as if the physical entities themselves have risen as a
land mass and decided this.
Not sure about your urinating contest with Marie, but let me set you
straight on what I think you are misunderstanding....
States do set State taxes. This does include property tax, sales tax,
auto registration, etc. These are all certainly State income vehicles.
So if you were implying otherwise, then you are wrong.
Yes, political parties have been playing the gerrymandering game as a
function of districting and zoning for decades. It is a non-starter for
you or anyone to throw the first stone here... all are guilty. None of
this however changes the fact that you simply just can't go to a
majority vote and throw away the electoral system, as it may not reflect
the interest of the nation.
But still she screeds on - not content to assume these land masses have
secret tax leveraging power, she goes on - these huge tracts of land also
want welfare for all comers (is this another Clinton reference, not sure)
and *jail time for anyone who looked cross-eyed at a homosexual.*
Wow - it is staggering, isn't it? Apparently, although last I checked
counties and state houses determined taxes, Marie knows better. Of course,
since local municipalities have had to do with far less since the big cowboy
with the word of God hit town, somehow it's the largely-populated states,
gerrymandered to allow the special interests (which of course mean the 'N'
word) to get more votes than the real people, who make the laws and raise
the property taxes on the poor corporate farmer in Idaho with several
hundred thousand acres to till by hand ...
Amazing - hard to imagine, but it's all above ... "just ask yourself the
ethnic makeup of these large cities, Bryan," she writes. Proving once again
that when it comes right down to it, for little Miss Marie at least, it's
all about groups - and her distasteful view of those she deems unworthy.
Perhaps she hears the sound of distant goosesteps - perhaps the sound of her
own voice rising powerfully over the masses of inferiors - but whatever the
case, Angelica has always said it better, and often with better syntax.
You are certainly free to hypothesize whatever intrigue you like.... but
to go there with the ethnic argument.... the needs of blacks in New York
or LA, are quite different from the needs of black people in rural
Mississippi. They pay taxes too, and deserve representation for their
taxes. Ditto for Hispanics in South Florida and South LA, than that of
Hispanics in Arkansas or Arizona. Meaning in a voting system, States
needs have to be protected also..... otherwise the entire election could
be decided before California ever gets to vote. Consider that a simple
majority vote could completely dis-enfranchise all voters in
California. Hawaii.... sorry, you have no vote!
All I am suggesting here is that to dump the electoral system that has
served us for hundreds of years can create other problems. I am not
arguing for or against the electoral system.... just suggesting that
this should not be a cavalier decision.
Oh wait, syntax - another *demmie* plot, no doubt, caused by some great land
mass - Pennsylvania, perhaps?
.
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