| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Vosotros" |
| Date: |
25 May 2007 11:58:47 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that is
promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such authority as
an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god does
not exist by remaining neutral?
is this what you see in
kids, today? How many kids that you know will willingly accept what
an adult tells them as being fact?
You obviously don't have kids, or don't know any teachers. Aside from the
ignorance, it is hypocritical for you, as a christian nationalist, to feign
powerlessness on this matter when you actively promote obediance to
authority, conformity, and submission in children.
Is it not true that kids routinely
challenge EVERYTHING you tell them with a "why" or more? In fact, my
officially banning religion, our society may have just made it the
most attractive thing for youth to follow. So, thanks AU for
inspiring new converts.
False premise number two.
Let's see some examples of religion being officially banned.
2. The second topic is very similar to the first, only dealing with
adults. Many that don't want to accept Christ will claim (to
themselves and others) that Christianity is for the weak-minded and
naive...that those that follow Christ will fall for anything.
And many Christian say that those that are not Christians are weak of mind
and flesh as well.
My
response to that is for everyone to just look around. Does it LOOK
like Christians are falling for evolution, atheism, liberalism,
abortion, homosexual rights, Mohammed, Budda, or other philosophies
out there; or, is one of the main condemnations of Christians in our
society that they WON'T go along with what others believe (out of
personal, fundamenalist conviction).
What?
There are Christians do understand science, are liberals, do believe in
reproductive rights, and accept gays.
What is this crap about Christians accepting Buddha and Mohammed?
That doesn't sound like they are
weak-willed or that they buy into everything to me.
But people like you count on it when spreading this type of disinformation,
admit it.
.
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 02:51:47 PM |
|
|
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil Liberties
Union.
.
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|
| User: "Vosotros" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 04:50:09 PM |
|
|
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:n7H5i.25$zN5.5@trndny05...
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it
demands that religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
It has never done either one.
The Supreme Court ruled that jewelry is not a violation of the establishment
clause. Kids may also pray when not in class on school grounds and may pray
silently in class. They may also meet after class in clubs at the school.
So your claim is utter nonsense.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to trying
to make us pretend that religion does not exist.
Are you fucking crazy? tell me, chicken little, how is government trying to
make us do this?
A while ago we had National Prayer Day.
Bush is giving millions away to faith based charities. Even homeland
security has a provision where churches get funds to repair their
infrastructure. There are military and congressional Chaplains, all
Christian.
Pious politicians are constantly telling us how christian they are.
More nonsense.
Government is a far cry from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil Liberties
Union.
I'll bet you an internet beer you can't find even one case backed by the
ACLU that infringes on your rights even one little bit. And I'll bet you
that I can find cases where the ACLU protected the very rights above that
you said government schools were violating.
Care to take me up on it?
.
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 05:27:02 PM |
|
|
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135emgiaotjnn3e@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:n7H5i.25$zN5.5@trndny05...
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it
demands that religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
It has never done either one.
The Supreme Court ruled that jewelry is not a violation of the
establishment clause. Kids may also pray when not in class on school
grounds and may pray silently in class. They may also meet after class in
clubs at the school.
So your claim is utter nonsense.
Tell us then, why can't a teacher take part in the club meetings after
school? Why can't teachers participate in the Meet at the Flag Pole prayers
held once a year by students?
I'm not blaming the school itself for the violations of free expression of
teachers, and perhaps of students themselves. The school, more accurately
the school district(s), are being sued left and right by the ACLU, and are
then being told by the court to halt the religious expression that might
take place on a school campus.
You know this is true because it is precisely why we are even having the
discussion.
.
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| User: "Vosotros" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 12:07:48 PM |
|
|
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WoJ5i.39$Au6.1@trndny04...
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135emgiaotjnn3e@corp.supernews.com...
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:n7H5i.25$zN5.5@trndny05...
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government
that is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it
demands that religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
It has never done either one.
The Supreme Court ruled that jewelry is not a violation of the
establishment clause. Kids may also pray when not in class on school
grounds and may pray silently in class. They may also meet after class in
clubs at the school.
So your claim is utter nonsense.
Tell us then, why can't a teacher take part in the club meetings after
school?
They can, and do, but only at schools other than their own.
A school district may not limit a teacher's free speech while off duty, and
may not make a distinction between religious and non religious participation
in an activity off school grounds. However, if the activity on school
grounds creates the appearance of a connection between the school and that
activity, the teacher cannot participate on his or her own school.
Why can't teachers participate in the Meet at the Flag Pole prayers
held once a year by students?
Because they are on duty and it is a clear violation of the establishment
clause. Somehow I think this has been explained to you before and you refuse
to understand it.
Besides, the group that sponsers the flag prayers, CEF, organizes daily
prayer at schools, not once a year as you suggest.
I'm not blaming the school itself for the violations of free expression of
teachers, and perhaps of students themselves.
Well, you should, because the schools and the school districts are the ones
to blame for bad policy, not the ACLU. There is no government or ACLU
sponsored conspiracy to remove god and religion from the public realm. Just
to protect the rights of us all without favoring one religion over another,
or religion over unbelief.
The school, more accurately the school district(s), are being sued left and
right by the ACLU, and are then being told by the court to halt the
religious expression that might take place on a school campus.
So let me get this straight, you blame the ACLU for pointing out the
violation and giving support to parents and teachers whose rights have been
violated, and the courts for upholding the law?
What kind of backwards-***** world do you live in?
You know this is true because it is precisely why we are even having the
discussion.
Larf!
What I know is true is that this keeps getting explained to you, and you
keep pretending to not hear.
I also know that you have refused to offer up any actual example of the ACLU
taking a case that restricted your rights even a little bit, as I asked for.
Now, you can keep flapping your lips about how the horrible old ACLU is
ruining it for your religion, but that won't change the fact that you can't
give me one example or a case the ACLU has advocated that backs you up.
You might try, but each one is on behalf of someone (usually a Christian of
some type) who is getting their rights violated by pushy evangelicals who
believe they have the right to subject everyone to proselytization through
the government.
.
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| User: "neoconis_ignoramus" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 02:58:20 PM |
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|
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
.
|
|
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| User: "Jeff Strickland" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 03:18:40 PM |
|
|
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180123100.304918.159870@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government
that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to trying
to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry
from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil
Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
I never said anything about a focus on the denial. The denial is vast and
constant, and when a teacher comes along that actually has religion in his
or her heart, that teacher is not allowed to let anybody know. The result
is, school (where children spend the vast majority of their awake hours) is
a religion free zone.
The problem isn't what the schools may or may not do as a matter of course.
The problem is that schools are taking an avoidance manuver -- they are
avoiding a lawsuit by the ACLU if they allow any religious presence on the
school yard.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly, twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher comes
along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the parking lot. I
accept they ought not make their classroom into a religious shrine, but I
think kids need to know that Mr/Ms/Mrs/Ms Jones has faith, if in fact they
do. Kids will learn from the experience that people of different faiths
might have different standards that the children have to live up to. When
the kids leave the environment of said teacher, they will return to whatever
behavior that may be acceptable, but when in the presence of such a teacher,
they will know that some other level of behavior is required. Or, maybe
there is no difference in behavior, but there is a discernable difference in
the teacher, if this difference is based in religion, then the kids should
know. They learn diversity in such an environment.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vosotros" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 04:52:34 PM |
|
|
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AwH5i.26$eO5.15@trndny08...
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180123100.304918.159870@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government
that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands
that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to
trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry
from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil
Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
I never said anything about a focus on the denial. The denial is vast and
constant, and when a teacher comes along that actually has religion in his
or her heart, that teacher is not allowed to let anybody know. The result
is, school (where children spend the vast majority of their awake hours)
is a religion free zone.
That is a lie.
Beyond the occaissional rare incedent there is no government sponsored
agenda to stop teachers from wearing religious jewelry.
The problem isn't what the schools may or may not do as a matter of
course. The problem is that schools are taking an avoidance manuver --
they are avoiding a lawsuit by the ACLU if they allow any religious
presence on the school yard.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly, twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher
comes along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the parking
lot. I accept they ought not make their classroom into a religious shrine,
but I think kids need to know that Mr/Ms/Mrs/Ms Jones has faith, if in
fact they do. Kids will learn from the experience that people of different
faiths might have different standards that the children have to live up
to. When the kids leave the environment of said teacher, they will return
to whatever behavior that may be acceptable, but when in the presence of
such a teacher, they will know that some other level of behavior is
required. Or, maybe there is no difference in behavior, but there is a
discernable difference in the teacher, if this difference is based in
religion, then the kids should know. They learn diversity in such an
environment.
.
|
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|
| User: "patriot care2.com" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 03:38:44 PM |
|
|
Okey,so no teaching religion in schools. Instead let them learn from street
gangs and other misfits.
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AwH5i.26$eO5.15@trndny08...
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180123100.304918.159870@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government
that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands
that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to
trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry
from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil
Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
I never said anything about a focus on the denial. The denial is vast and
constant, and when a teacher comes along that actually has religion in his
or her heart, that teacher is not allowed to let anybody know. The result
is, school (where children spend the vast majority of their awake hours)
is a religion free zone.
The problem isn't what the schools may or may not do as a matter of
course. The problem is that schools are taking an avoidance manuver --
they are avoiding a lawsuit by the ACLU if they allow any religious
presence on the school yard.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly, twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher
comes along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the parking
lot. I accept they ought not make their classroom into a religious shrine,
but I think kids need to know that Mr/Ms/Mrs/Ms Jones has faith, if in
fact they do. Kids will learn from the experience that people of different
faiths might have different standards that the children have to live up
to. When the kids leave the environment of said teacher, they will return
to whatever behavior that may be acceptable, but when in the presence of
such a teacher, they will know that some other level of behavior is
required. Or, maybe there is no difference in behavior, but there is a
discernable difference in the teacher, if this difference is based in
religion, then the kids should know. They learn diversity in such an
environment.
.
|
|
|
| User: "neoconis_ignoramus" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 03:41:36 PM |
|
|
On May 25, 1:38 pm, "patriot" <care2.com> wrote:
Okey,so no teaching religion in schools. Instead let them learn from street
gangs and other misfits."Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AwH5i.26$eO5.15@trndny08...
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamac...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180123100.304918.159870@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government
that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands
that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to
trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry
from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil
Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
I never said anything about a focus on the denial. The denial is vast and
constant, and when a teacher comes along that actually has religion in his
or her heart, that teacher is not allowed to let anybody know. The result
is, school (where children spend the vast majority of their awake hours)
is a religion free zone.
The problem isn't what the schools may or may not do as a matter of
course. The problem is that schools are taking an avoidance manuver --
they are avoiding a lawsuit by the ACLU if they allow any religious
presence on the school yard.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly, twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher
comes along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the parking
lot. I accept they ought not make their classroom into a religious shrine,
but I think kids need to know that Mr/Ms/Mrs/Ms Jones has faith, if in
fact they do. Kids will learn from the experience that people of different
faiths might have different standards that the children have to live up
to. When the kids leave the environment of said teacher, they will return
to whatever behavior that may be acceptable, but when in the presence of
such a teacher, they will know that some other level of behavior is
required. Or, maybe there is no difference in behavior, but there is a
discernable difference in the teacher, if this difference is based in
religion, then the kids should know. They learn diversity in such an
environment.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You learn religion from street gangs? I think you've been watching
West Side Story a bit too much.
.
|
|
|
| User: "patriot care2.com" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 03:56:03 PM |
|
|
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180125696.864214.55260@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 1:38 pm, "patriot" <care2.com> wrote:
Okey,so no teaching religion in schools. Instead let them learn from
street
gangs and other misfits."Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote in
message
news:AwH5i.26$eO5.15@trndny08...
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamac...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180123100.304918.159870@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion
must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The
claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government
that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that
god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands
that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to
trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry
from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil
Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
I never said anything about a focus on the denial. The denial is vast
and
constant, and when a teacher comes along that actually has religion in
his
or her heart, that teacher is not allowed to let anybody know. The
result
is, school (where children spend the vast majority of their awake
hours)
is a religion free zone.
The problem isn't what the schools may or may not do as a matter of
course. The problem is that schools are taking an avoidance manuver --
they are avoiding a lawsuit by the ACLU if they allow any religious
presence on the school yard.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly, twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher
comes along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the
parking
lot. I accept they ought not make their classroom into a religious
shrine,
but I think kids need to know that Mr/Ms/Mrs/Ms Jones has faith, if in
fact they do. Kids will learn from the experience that people of
different
faiths might have different standards that the children have to live up
to. When the kids leave the environment of said teacher, they will
return
to whatever behavior that may be acceptable, but when in the presence
of
such a teacher, they will know that some other level of behavior is
required. Or, maybe there is no difference in behavior, but there is a
discernable difference in the teacher, if this difference is based in
religion, then the kids should know. They learn diversity in such an
environment.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You learn religion from street gangs? I think you've been watching
West Side Story a bit too much.
I can see you misread my remark.The idea is teaching morals in school is
better than being influenced on the street. A vote would be in favor of
that by far.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vosotros" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 04:54:02 PM |
|
|
"patriot" <care2.com> wrote in message
news:RICdnabpIJ_50MrbnZ2dnUVZ_r-onZ2d@comcast.com...
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamacina@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180125696.864214.55260@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 1:38 pm, "patriot" <care2.com> wrote:
Okey,so no teaching religion in schools. Instead let them learn from
street
gangs and other misfits."Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote in
message
news:AwH5i.26$eO5.15@trndny08...
"neoconis_ignoramus" <bellamac...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1180123100.304918.159870@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 12:51 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <c...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Vosotros" <Vosot...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion
must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The
claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is
EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or
government
that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such
authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that
god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a
teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands
that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to
trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far
cry
from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil
Liberties
Union.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Um, let me know where you find some k-12 classes focusing on whether
god exists. You mean you can't find any? So goes your idiotic
theory.
I never said anything about a focus on the denial. The denial is vast
and
constant, and when a teacher comes along that actually has religion in
his
or her heart, that teacher is not allowed to let anybody know. The
result
is, school (where children spend the vast majority of their awake
hours)
is a religion free zone.
The problem isn't what the schools may or may not do as a matter of
course. The problem is that schools are taking an avoidance manuver --
they are avoiding a lawsuit by the ACLU if they allow any religious
presence on the school yard.
The real issue is that rather than allow the silly, twisted, fear-
laden losers who characterize themselves as "religious people" try to
pontificate and proselytize in public schools, gov't sensibly came to
the conclusion that religion should be a private matter instead.
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly,
twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher
comes along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the
parking
lot. I accept they ought not make their classroom into a religious
shrine,
but I think kids need to know that Mr/Ms/Mrs/Ms Jones has faith, if in
fact they do. Kids will learn from the experience that people of
different
faiths might have different standards that the children have to live
up
to. When the kids leave the environment of said teacher, they will
return
to whatever behavior that may be acceptable, but when in the presence
of
such a teacher, they will know that some other level of behavior is
required. Or, maybe there is no difference in behavior, but there is a
discernable difference in the teacher, if this difference is based in
religion, then the kids should know. They learn diversity in such an
environment.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You learn religion from street gangs? I think you've been watching
West Side Story a bit too much.
I can see you misread my remark.The idea is teaching morals in school is
better than being influenced on the street. A vote would be in favor of
that by far.
Morals should be taught by the parents, not instituted church time for
gradeschool children.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 01:19:55 AM |
|
|
On May 25, 2007, Loser wrote:
I'm not asking the school to teach religion and foist a silly, twisted,
fear-laden doctrine on everybody. I'm only asking that when a teacher comes
along that has faith, they need not leave the faith in the parking lot.
Does it matter what religion it is?
Gray Shockley
---------------------------------------
President George W C Bush's business professor at
Harvard Business School, Professor Yoshi Tsurumi, recalls
our President as "not just as a terrible student but as
spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar".
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 01:18:01 AM |
|
|
On May 25, 2007, Jeff Strickland wrote
(in article <n7H5i.25$zN5.5@trndny05>):
"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that
is promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such authority
as an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god
does not exist by remaining neutral?
No. Government tells kids that God does not exist when it forbids a teacher
from wearing religious jewelry in the classroom, and when it demands that
religion be checked at the schoolyard gate.
You forgot your citations, religious-*****.
Religion exists, and government is doing everybody a disservice to trying to
make us pretend that religion does not exist. Government is a far cry from
neutral on this issue, thanks to the likes of the American Civil Liberties
Union.
Not all of us want to be enslaved with your Islamic religion nor your
desire for the death of all Americans and all American Military who
you would like to kill for your dead master, Sadddam.
May you and your anti-American puppet-masters die in the hail of
American Soldiers and Marines and their bullets and bayonets.
May your gutless cowardice be with you for all eternity.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 12:13:35 PM |
|
|
In article <135e5e8kg02ri0d@corp.supernews.com> "Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> writes:
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180103606.595561.318380@a35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children. 2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
When it is seen as the school, the teacher, pricipal, or government that is
promoting religion, a child would most certainly see any such authority as
an influence.
Aside from the fact
that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
It didn't take you long to get to your first false premise. How is
neutrality state-sponsored atheism? Do teachers tell children that god does
not exist by remaining neutral?
Damn straight, pal! By not telling America's children about
the Divine Bastet (may her fur be forever sleek), they're telling
them "Now listen up kiddies: God is dead".
This little bit of dishonesty -- not teaching god is teaching
there-is-no-god -- has become a standard gambit for those who, in
spite of the fact that three-quarters of the country shares their
beliefs, in spite of the fact that a declared atheist would
have only the smallest chance of ever beling elected -- those
who would have you believe that they are persecuted and abused.
In other words: just another standard-issue political lie.
-- cary
.
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