| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Bob LeChevalier" |
| Date: |
25 May 2007 11:45:55 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
There are two topics for this post. 1. The claim that religion must
be kept out of schools of easily influenced children.
The Constitution requires that only of public schools. You can do
whatever you want in Sunday school.
2. The claim
that Christianity is a religion of the naive (easily influence).
That claim is made by people who think that ALL religion is only for
the naive (easily influenced). Christianity just happens to be to one
that is here, and the particular obnoxious brand of it practiced by
most evangelicals makes it more likely to be criticized.
1. On the first topic, there are many people that say it is EXTRA
important to protect children from religious influence in public
schools, since they are more easily influence.
Which people. Please provide cites. Let those people speak for
themselves as to their motivation. God knows that YOU won't speak
their motivation honestly.
Aside from the fact that this establishes state-sponsored atheism,
Nope. Non-teaching of religion is secularism, not atheism. Learn the
difference, clueless.
is this what you see in kids, today? How many kids that you know will willingly accept what
an adult tells them as being fact?
Young kids? Most of them. Rebellion against parents comes naturally
with puberty.
Is it not true that kids routinely
challenge EVERYTHING you tell them with a "why" or more?
"Why?" is only a challenge to those who are clueless. To others it is
a request for explanation, which is one kind of knowledge. Learning
to ask "why" is essential to developing the ability to reason. But
only fanatical religionists don't want their kids to learn to reason.
In fact, my officially banning religion, our society may have just made it the
most attractive thing for youth to follow.
Our society doesn't ban religion. If it did, then your assertion
might indeed be true; but since in fact our youth DON'T turn to
religion in rebellion, apparently you are lying.
So, thanks AU for inspiring new converts.
If that is the only thing that can inspire new converts, then
Christianity has no chance for survival.
2. The second topic is very similar to the first, only dealing with
adults. Many that don't want to accept Christ will claim (to
themselves and others) that Christianity is for the weak-minded and
naive...that those that follow Christ will fall for anything.
If one looks at you, one might be inclined to think so. But of course
you are misstating what they say, either because you are a habitual
liar, or because you are habitually clueless.
My response to that is for everyone to just look around. Does it LOOK
like Christians are falling for evolution, atheism, liberalism,
abortion, homosexual rights, Mohammed, Budda, or other philosophies
out there; or, is one of the main condemnations of Christians in our
society that they WON'T go along with what others believe (out of
personal, fundamenalist conviction).
No one else cares what Christians believe. It is their attempt to
convert (i.e. "give the good news to") others that makes Christians
seem so obnoxious to others.
lojbab
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| User: "Balanced View" |
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| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
25 May 2007 10:05:06 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
No one else cares what Christians believe. It is their attempt to
convert (i.e. "give the good news to") others that makes Christians
seem so obnoxious to others.
lojbab
They know that any religion, their's included, is just one generation
away from extinction at any time.
If you don't get a child indoctrinated by about 12 chances are very good
they never will be, and this
scares the ***** out of the church.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 01:58:19 AM |
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Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
No one else cares what Christians believe. It is their attempt to
convert (i.e. "give the good news to") others that makes Christians
seem so obnoxious to others.
lojbab
They know that any religion, their's included, is just one generation
away from extinction at any time.
If you don't get a child indoctrinated by about 12 chances are very good
they never will be, and this
scares the ***** out of the church.
I became a Christian at 18, and I wasn't indoctrinated in any
religion. Of course, I am not the sort of Christian Kennie approves
of, since I actually think about what I believe and why.
lojbab
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| User: "Balanced View" |
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| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 01:57:34 PM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
No one else cares what Christians believe. It is their attempt to
convert (i.e. "give the good news to") others that makes Christians
seem so obnoxious to others.
lojbab
They know that any religion, their's included, is just one generation
away from extinction at any time.
If you don't get a child indoctrinated by about 12 chances are very good
they never will be, and this
scares the ***** out of the church.
I became a Christian at 18, and I wasn't indoctrinated in any
religion. Of course, I am not the sort of Christian Kennie approves
of, since I actually think about what I believe and why.
lojbab
Then you are in the minority, if you are a thinking Christian do tell
why the bible is full of myths
from other cultures that predate the old testament.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 06:08:08 PM |
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Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I became a Christian at 18, and I wasn't indoctrinated in any
religion. Of course, I am not the sort of Christian Kennie approves
of, since I actually think about what I believe and why.
Then you are in the minority, if you are a thinking Christian do tell
why the bible is full of myths
from other cultures that predate the old testament.
All religious sacred texts are full of myths. There is nothing wrong
with myths. They have fictional elements, but they contain cultural
and spiritual truths. Jesus Christ was especially known for teaching
in parables. Myths are just parables writ large, containing concepts
fundamental to a culture. Since the Israelites of Abraham were an
offshoot of earlier cultures, then to the extent that they took those
cultural myths with them, they retained those aspects of the prior
culture. Likewise, to the extent they adopted Egyptian and later
Persian and Greek cultures, their myths also came to adopt elements of
the myths of those cultures.
None of this makes the religion false.
The flaw of the fundies is that they think that scripture is handed
down from God, when instead it is the reflections of God within a
culture - the ideas of the people about God. Just as "true" in its
own way, and quite important as a source of values for those who wish
to adopt the culture that is described, but not pretending to be a
history textbook or a science textbook either.
lojbab
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Weak Minded Christians and Schools |
26 May 2007 11:06:22 PM |
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On May 26, 2007, Bob LeChevalier wrote
(in article <enbh531qih3a4tb8r5n5mobiffrpnrrcjn@4ax.com>):
Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I became a Christian at 18, and I wasn't indoctrinated in any
religion. Of course, I am not the sort of Christian Kennie approves
of, since I actually think about what I believe and why.
Then you are in the minority, if you are a thinking Christian do tell
why the bible is full of myths
from other cultures that predate the old testament.
All religious sacred texts are full of myths. There is nothing wrong
with myths. They have fictional elements, but they contain cultural
and spiritual truths. Jesus Christ was especially known for teaching
in parables. Myths are just parables writ large, containing concepts
fundamental to a culture. Since the Israelites of Abraham were an
offshoot of earlier cultures, then to the extent that they took those
cultural myths with them, they retained those aspects of the prior
culture. Likewise, to the extent they adopted Egyptian and later
Persian and Greek cultures, their myths also came to adopt elements of
the myths of those cultures.
None of this makes the religion false.
The flaw of the fundies is that they think that scripture is handed
down from God, when instead it is the reflections of God within a
culture - the ideas of the people about God. Just as "true" in its
own way, and quite important as a source of values for those who wish
to adopt the culture that is described, but not pretending to be a
history textbook or a science textbook either.
lojbab
An idea I've always remembered from Walter Kaufmann (pretty sure in
_The Faith of a Heretic_) was not that "God chose the Jews" but that
"the Jews chose God".
Gray / "For What It's Worth"
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