| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
08 Sep 2006 01:02:10 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
On one hand, the companies that sponsor La Raza are openly known:
http://nclr.org/section/about/funding/
They have nothing to be ashamed of -quite the contrary- and they are
not hiding from anybody.
Actually, many of these "companies" are front organizations for
communist/socialist organizations. A few are front organizations for
Mexico and/or the Catholic church, and the rest are corporations who
are making fortunes by hiring illegals, thus avoiding having to pay the
fair wages commanded by legal, American workers. Since these illegals,
are illiterate, come from a culture that tolerates and encourages
unfairness, nepotisim, and corruption, these corporate thugs can count
on the fact that this type of worker can be counted on to put up with
the same while they are working in this country illegally.
On the other hand, I have been looking around to see who is the La
Raza's counterpart, and found this:
http://www.saveourstate.org
Your research skills are pathetic. SOS is one of many groups opposed to
the invasion from Mexico. They cannot be considered La Raza's
"counterpart" .
However, I can't find any names of companies.
That's because they are a "grassroots" organization. A grassroots
organization is one that is supported mostly by individual citizens.
What are they afraid of?
Just because they don't post a list of contributors doesn't mean they
are "afraid". As usual, you people draw conclusions from the weakest of
premises.
Why do they have to be in the dark?
They are not, you are.
A respectable US corporation would never sponsor a racist group. That
would be suicidal, right?
Wrong. La Raza is openly racist--the name even means "the race" in
English, and they have openly stated that it is thier goal to invade
the United States and take it over. Furthermore, they have stated that
they want to rid the country of European people, despite the fact that
they built it. This is about as racist as it gets, yet the corporations
on the list that you provided support La Raza, so some US corporations
do support racist groups, right?
I hereby challenge the anti-undocumented-immigrants
They are not undocumented immigrants. They entered this country
illegally, therefore, in the legal terminology of this country, they
are officially refered to as illegal aliens. Only people like you, who
try to hide the fact that they break the law to sneak in here, try to
cloak the meaning of the terms used to describe them.
to produce a list
of companies that sponsor their cause.
And we hereby challange you to go back to Mexico, and fix your own
problems. How dare you sneak in here, then criticize the country whose
resources you have stolen, and whose people you have officially
declared war on? Mexico has one of the worst human rights records of
any country on earth, refuses to tax it's millionaires so that services
can be provided to it's poor, degrades women, destroys its environment,
devalues education for all except for the wealthy, etc., etc., etc. And
you want us to let millions of you in here, without so much as knowing
your names?
One? Anyone?
-Ramon F Herrera
Ramon, you have no argument here. All you do is accuse those brave
enough to defend thier own country of racisim, using only the fact that
one group among the many, of these brave, patriotic individuals dont
provide a list of contributors that mental midgets like youself can
easily get to as "evidence" to support your invalid claim. You assert
that La Raza, an organization which is avidly racist isn't, simply
because they provide a list of contributors--something every non-profit
org in this US is required to do by law if they make over a certain
amount. Since you have so much time to criticize US citizens for
defending thier country, why not try criticising your own? instead of
protesting here, why not hop on a bus and protest how corrupt your own
government is, in Mexico? in my opinion, you Mexicans who come here and
whine are gutless wimps, afraid to take on your own problems in your
own country. It's really easy to come here and accuse us of racisim,
knowing that our people are too kind and generous to imprision
trecherous cowards like yourself. Ramon, if you are a man at all you
will return home and stand up to your own government and corrupt
society, and stop hiding in the USA. Have the balls to return home and
make your own country a better place, so millions of wimps like
yourself won't have to sneak over here and hide like frightened little
mice.
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
08 Sep 2006 02:51:08 PM |
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wrote:
That's because they are a "grassroots" organization. A grassroots
organization is one that is supported mostly by individual citizens.
Not forever. Nobody said that grassroots have to remain at the
individual level forever. Take for instance "Doctors without Borders",
"Greenpeace" and so many others. In fact, those which remain
grassroots can only be qualified as a failure.
Let's see which was that organization which started grassroots and is
growing by leaps and bounds, with plenty of individual and corporate
sponsors? Hmm, which was it? Oh, yes: The Council of La Raza (whose
name admitedly sucks and lacking a better argument are attacked for
it).
-Ramon
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| User: "Jim" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 06:45:32 PM |
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"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:1157745068.152031.282360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
That's because they are a "grassroots" organization. A grassroots
organization is one that is supported mostly by individual citizens.
Not forever. Nobody said that grassroots have to remain at the
individual level forever. Take for instance "Doctors without Borders",
"Greenpeace" and so many others. In fact, those which remain
grassroots can only be qualified as a failure.
Let's see which was that organization which started grassroots and is
growing by leaps and bounds, with plenty of individual and corporate
sponsors? Hmm, which was it? Oh, yes: The Council of La Raza (whose
name admitedly sucks and lacking a better argument are attacked for
it).
-Ramon
A grass roots org. does not need to have corporate sponsors to grow.
Besides most of the large corporations are to at least some extent in favor
of illegals as they are a cheap source of labor and a great union buster.
They , and apparently you, don't care that these people are brought here
under horrific conditions and often kept that way as well.
Many die coming here and more once they get here.
I'm very concerned that you don't seem to care about that. if you did you'd
be helping to stop the abuse instead of running around defending those who
perpetrate it.
Jim C.
P.S. Do you think illegal immigrants should be allowed to continue to come
here as they have been?
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| User: "H. Reader" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 11:54:39 AM |
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"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:1157745068.152031.282360@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
That's because they are a "grassroots" organization. A grassroots
organization is one that is supported mostly by individual citizens.
Not forever. Nobody said that grassroots have to remain at the
individual level forever. Take for instance "Doctors without Borders",
"Greenpeace" and so many others. In fact, those which remain
grassroots can only be qualified as a failure.
What nonsense.
Let's see which was that organization which started grassroots and is
growing by leaps and bounds, with plenty of individual and corporate
sponsors? Hmm, which was it? Oh, yes: The Council of La Raza (whose
name admitedly sucks and lacking a better argument are attacked for
it).
Growing by leaps and bounds? Only because of continued
massive immigration from your shithole nations...
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
08 Sep 2006 01:36:19 PM |
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wrote:
Your research skills are pathetic. SOS is one of many groups opposed to
the invasion from Mexico. They cannot be considered La Raza's "counterpart" .
My reseach includes this posting with the challenge. You claim that
SOS is not on the opposite side, so what organization is? And again:
where are the sponsoring corporations?
-Ramon
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 04:27:08 PM |
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Ramon F Herrera wrote:
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
Your research skills are pathetic. SOS is one of many groups opposed to
the invasion from Mexico. They cannot be considered La Raza's "counterpart" .
My reseach includes this posting with the challenge. You claim that
SOS is not on the opposite side, so what organization is? And again:
where are the sponsoring corporations?
-Ramon
A: You were informed in my original post that there are many, so no one
in particular speaks for the whole pro-national security side.
B: You were informed in my original post that individual contributors
are probably the majority of SOS's funders, and no public record of
them exists if they contribute $250 or less. Got it? I can't make it
any more simple or clear. You really need to pay attention to what
people post before asking the same question, which has already been
awnsered, over and over again.
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
08 Sep 2006 01:24:38 PM |
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wrote:
[a lot of stuff]
....and the companies are???
-Ramon
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| User: "Jim" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 06:23:32 PM |
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"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:1157739878.094314.89560@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
[a lot of stuff]
...and the companies are???
-Ramon
Now your being obstinate.
Your also being deflective, as we have already stated the facts to you.
The thing, and thank you for showing it to the new guys.
Is that you won't answer our questions. At all
And as far as the companies you speak of, I'd like you to show one credible
source that say's they support ILLEGAL immigrants.... I'm waiting.
Jim C.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 04:16:44 PM |
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Ramon F Herrera wrote:
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
[a lot of stuff]
...and the companies are???
-Ramon
How would I know? I'm not a member. You need to do your own research,
and not try to get us to do it for you.
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
08 Sep 2006 02:12:48 PM |
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wrote:
[a lot of stuff]
New Dragoon:
FYI, I am an American Citizen. Have been one for the last quarter of a
century. The only difference between me and a native is that I cannot
run for president (and that's your loss).
I am successful professional and businessman, I was at MIT and Harvard
during the time the Internet was being developed and you are using this
network thanks in part to people like me. My services are in very high
demand and thank to my skills I could live in almost any country in the
planet. I chose to be an American, but I still keep my Venezuelan
citizenship.
I create jobs, I employ people, both gringo and latino, and travel
frequently overseas for contracts which bring more dollars to the US
than the paltry expenses I make over there.
Once again, the Usenet hard disks must be overflowing with the things
written about me. Let's concentrate on the challenge at hand.
Where are those companies????
-Ramon F Herrera
(my actual and real name, as I have never hidden under a pseudonym)
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| User: "Jim" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 06:40:26 PM |
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"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:1157742768.538597.116350@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
[a lot of stuff]
New Dragoon:
FYI, I am an American Citizen. Have been one for the last quarter of a
century. The only difference between me and a native is that I cannot
run for president (and that's your loss).
And did you come here leagally at first? if so why don't you think others
should be required to do the same ?
I am successful professional and businessman, I was at MIT and Harvard
during the time the Internet was being developed and you are using this
network thanks in part to people like me. My services are in very high
demand and thank to my skills I could live in almost any country in the
planet. I chose to be an American, but I still keep my Venezuelan
citizenship.
Good for you, really
I create jobs, I employ people, both gringo and latino, and travel
frequently overseas for contracts which bring more dollars to the US
than the paltry expenses I make over there.
How many of them mare here legally? how many not ?
Once again, the Usenet hard disks must be overflowing with the things
written about me. Let's concentrate on the challenge at hand.
Where are those companies????
No list, we answered that question.
Now, are you for against illegal immagrents? and why ?
-Ramon F Herrera
(my actual and real name, as I have never hidden under a pseudonym)
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| User: "H. Reader" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 11:53:14 AM |
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"Ramon F Herrera" <goposter@jonjay.com> wrote in message
news:1157742768.538597.116350@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
[a lot of stuff]
New Dragoon:
FYI, I am an American Citizen. Have been one for the last quarter of a
century. The only difference between me and a native is that I cannot
run for president (and that's your loss).
Obviously there are many differences between you and a native.
You, for example, are merely an opportunist and are apparently
devoted to the destruction of this country through continued
massive immigration, legal and illegal. You want to fill the
place with more La Raza scum. You might be an American
citizen, but you aren't an American.
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 10:51:22 PM |
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H. Reader wrote:
You might be an American
citizen, but you aren't an American.
So when and where can people show up at your place where you will
surely be dispensing this "Certificate of Americanship" of yours?.
Even if I could get one of those, I would use it in lieu of toilet
paper.
Repeat with me people, for the hundreth time:
You cannot deport a citizen or stripe him of the US citizenship becuase
you disagree with their Usenet postings! Is is a very simple
principle. Is that hard to understand or what?
-Ramon
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| User: "Don Gabacho" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
10 Sep 2006 12:22:33 AM |
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Ramon F Herrera wrote:
You cannot deport a citizen or stripe him of the US citizenship becuase
you disagree with their Usenet postings!
Your postings can strip you of U.S. citizenship, any immigration status
granted and have you deported.
It has nothing to do with what others agree to or not in a Usenet forum.
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
10 Sep 2006 12:00:01 PM |
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Don Gabacho wrote:
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
You cannot deport a citizen or strip him of the US citizenship because
you disagree with their Usenet postings!
Your postings can strip you of U.S. citizenship, any immigration status
granted and have you deported.
Oh yeah? Can you provide ONE case?
Noam Chomsky is still around, isn't he? When I first arrived at MIT I
was very surprised to see across the street in Cambridge's Mass. Avenue
a sign that read:
"Headquarters of the Socialist Party of America"
This is my favorite web page, Don:
http://www.rnha.org/
BTW: My position on immigration is pretty much exactly than the one of:
- The President of the United States
- A significant majority of the US Senate
- The Democatic party
- Half the Repulican Party
- The US Chamber of Commerce
- All these companies:
http://nclr.org/section/about/funding/
So when are you and your API compatriots going to start proceedings to
deport them?
-Ramon
ps: still waiting for the list of companies that support your side,
folks...
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| User: "Alphonso Mbuto Chaing" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
10 Sep 2006 11:00:06 PM |
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In article <1157907601.546036.228760@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
goposter@jonjay.com says...
Don Gabacho wrote:
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
You cannot deport a citizen or strip him of the US citizenship because
you disagree with their Usenet postings!
Your postings can strip you of U.S. citizenship, any immigration status
granted and have you deported.
Oh yeah? Can you provide ONE case?
Noam Chomsky is still around, isn't he? When I first arrived at MIT I
was very surprised to see across the street in Cambridge's Mass. Avenue
a sign that read:
"Headquarters of the Socialist Party of America"
This is my favorite web page, Don:
http://www.rnha.org/
BTW: My position on immigration is pretty much exactly than the one of:
- The President of the United States
- A significant majority of the US Senate
- The Democatic party
- Half the Repulican Party
- The US Chamber of Commerce
- All these companies:
Fallacy: Appeal to Authority
Also Known as: Fallacious Appeal to Authority, Misuse of Authority, Irrelevant
Authority, Questionable Authority, Inappropriate Authority, Ad Verecundiam
An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:
Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
Person A makes claim C about subject S.
Therefore, C is true.
This sort of reasoning is fallacious when the person in question is not an
expert. In such cases the reasoning is flawed because the fact that an
unqualified person makes a claim does not provide any justification for the
claim. The claim could be true, but the fact that an unqualified person made
the claim does not provide any rational reason to accept the claim as true.
When a person falls prey to this fallacy, they are accepting a claim as true
without there being adequate evidence to do so. More specifically, the person
is accepting the claim because they erroneously believe that the person making
the claim is a legitimate expert and hence that the claim is reasonable to
accept. Since people have a tendency to believe authorities (and there are, in
fact, good reasons to accept some claims made by authorities) this fallacy is
a fairly common one.
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| User: "Don Gabacho" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
10 Sep 2006 02:25:40 PM |
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Ramon F Herrera wrote:
Don Gabacho wrote:
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
You cannot deport a citizen or strip him of the US citizenship because
you disagree with their Usenet postings!
Your postings can strip you of U.S. citizenship, any immigration status
granted and have you deported.
Oh yeah? Can you provide ONE case?
Noam Chomsky is still around, isn't he?
You compare yourself with Noam Chomsky? As I've been saying, you are
one deluded meglo.
BTW: My position on immigration is pretty much exactly than the one of:
- The President of the United States
- A significant majority of the US Senate
- The Democatic party
- Half the Repulican Party
- The US Chamber of Commerce
- All these companies:
Which does not make you an American anymore than it makes you the
President of the United States.
Your only position is kissing your own turdblosom.
So when are you and your API compatriots going to start proceedings to
deport them?
"Them"? Hanh!
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| User: "Ramon F Herrera" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
10 Sep 2006 03:58:38 PM |
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No offense, Don Gaba, but your arguments are getting lamer every day.
Don Gabacho wrote:
You compare yourself with Noam Chomsky? As I've been saying, you are
one deluded meglo.
Well, I have 2 legs, 2 arms, one head, live on planet earth and am
carbon based. Just like Noam Chomsky.
Your point was that I can/should be deported because of my opinions.
My point is that they will have to deport Chomsky first because his
opinions are much more radical than mine, and he has a much wider
audience. In other words, rather than trying to be similar to him, I
am trying to contrast him with me, because he is much more a threat to
the conventional US ideology than this humble Usenet poster.
How and why you managed to convert my modest words into some ego
boosting, baffle me.
-Ramon
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| User: "Liansky" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
08 Sep 2006 01:14:59 PM |
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Europeans didn't build America. They destroyed it for their own benefit
and in the process, murdered and oppressed the original inhabitants who
had been living in relative prosperity.
newdragoon@hushmail.com wrote:
Ramon F Herrera wrote:
On one hand, the companies that sponsor La Raza are openly known:
http://nclr.org/section/about/funding/
They have nothing to be ashamed of -quite the contrary- and they are
not hiding from anybody.
Actually, many of these "companies" are front organizations for
communist/socialist organizations. A few are front organizations for
Mexico and/or the Catholic church, and the rest are corporations who
are making fortunes by hiring illegals, thus avoiding having to pay the
fair wages commanded by legal, American workers. Since these illegals,
are illiterate, come from a culture that tolerates and encourages
unfairness, nepotisim, and corruption, these corporate thugs can count
on the fact that this type of worker can be counted on to put up with
the same while they are working in this country illegally.
On the other hand, I have been looking around to see who is the La
Raza's counterpart, and found this:
http://www.saveourstate.org
Your research skills are pathetic. SOS is one of many groups opposed to
the invasion from Mexico. They cannot be considered La Raza's
"counterpart" .
However, I can't find any names of companies.
That's because they are a "grassroots" organization. A grassroots
organization is one that is supported mostly by individual citizens.
What are they afraid of?
Just because they don't post a list of contributors doesn't mean they
are "afraid". As usual, you people draw conclusions from the weakest of
premises.
Why do they have to be in the dark?
They are not, you are.
A respectable US corporation would never sponsor a racist group. That
would be suicidal, right?
Wrong. La Raza is openly racist--the name even means "the race" in
English, and they have openly stated that it is thier goal to invade
the United States and take it over. Furthermore, they have stated that
they want to rid the country of European people, despite the fact that
they built it. This is about as racist as it gets, yet the corporations
on the list that you provided support La Raza, so some US corporations
do support racist groups, right?
I hereby challenge the anti-undocumented-immigrants
They are not undocumented immigrants. They entered this country
illegally, therefore, in the legal terminology of this country, they
are officially refered to as illegal aliens. Only people like you, who
try to hide the fact that they break the law to sneak in here, try to
cloak the meaning of the terms used to describe them.
to produce a list
of companies that sponsor their cause.
And we hereby challange you to go back to Mexico, and fix your own
problems. How dare you sneak in here, then criticize the country whose
resources you have stolen, and whose people you have officially
declared war on? Mexico has one of the worst human rights records of
any country on earth, refuses to tax it's millionaires so that services
can be provided to it's poor, degrades women, destroys its environment,
devalues education for all except for the wealthy, etc., etc., etc. And
you want us to let millions of you in here, without so much as knowing
your names?
One? Anyone?
-Ramon F Herrera
Ramon, you have no argument here. All you do is accuse those brave
enough to defend thier own country of racisim, using only the fact that
one group among the many, of these brave, patriotic individuals dont
provide a list of contributors that mental midgets like youself can
easily get to as "evidence" to support your invalid claim. You assert
that La Raza, an organization which is avidly racist isn't, simply
because they provide a list of contributors--something every non-profit
org in this US is required to do by law if they make over a certain
amount. Since you have so much time to criticize US citizens for
defending thier country, why not try criticising your own? instead of
protesting here, why not hop on a bus and protest how corrupt your own
government is, in Mexico? in my opinion, you Mexicans who come here and
whine are gutless wimps, afraid to take on your own problems in your
own country. It's really easy to come here and accuse us of racisim,
knowing that our people are too kind and generous to imprision
trecherous cowards like yourself. Ramon, if you are a man at all you
will return home and stand up to your own government and corrupt
society, and stop hiding in the USA. Have the balls to return home and
make your own country a better place, so millions of wimps like
yourself won't have to sneak over here and hide like frightened little
mice.
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| User: "Jim" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
16 Sep 2006 01:06:02 AM |
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"Liansky" <lnino31@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157739299.681803.156400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Europeans didn't build America. They destroyed it for their own benefit
and in the process, murdered and oppressed the original inhabitants who
had been living in relative prosperity.
Cool, Do us favor and convince the illegals of that so they'll stop coming
to this 'destroyed' country will ya.
Jim C.
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
11 Sep 2006 11:54:31 AM |
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"Liansky" <lnino31@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157739299.681803.156400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Europeans didn't build America. They destroyed it for their own benefit
and in the process, murdered and oppressed the original inhabitants who
had been living in relative prosperity.
Sorry to burst your little PC bubble, but the "original inhabitants" were
busy murdering and oppressing each other long before those evil nasty white
folks came over. Learn something about Mesoamerican history and the
background of such wonderful peace-loving peoples such as the Aztecs before
you start babbling about things you know nothing about.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who's the racist: La Raza or its opposition? |
09 Sep 2006 04:48:04 PM |
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Liansky wrote:
Europeans didn't build America. They destroyed it for their own benefit
and in the process, murdered and oppressed the original inhabitants who
had been living in relative prosperity.
In the first place, France and Spain were here, and likely would have
colonized if we hadn't. Colonization was a worldwide fact at the time,
and even if Europeans hadn't colonized this country, someone else would
have, at some time or another. I agree that Native Americans were, and
some still are, treated horribly. Though America has a dark side to
it's history, it's also the greatest nation on earth. We have a
democratic government, which, for the most part works. Our founders
were brilliant, progressive men, and because of them we have a society
that works. If you can think of a country that has no dark side in it's
past, and works as well as this one, why don't you name it--or better
yet move there. And no, Fantasy Island doesn't count. Oh, and by the
way, though people like you love to make Native Americans out to be
saints, the truth was that they manipulated the environment, fought
rival tribes constantly, could be cruel, barbaric, illogical, jealous,
criminal, etc., etc., etc., just like the rest of us. I really get sick
of the tierd, worn out 1960's style rhetoric spewed out by airheads
like you. Go hit the bong, moron.
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