"Liberty1st" <liberty1st_@email.com> wrote in message
news:9fSdnTc77d5plLvcRVn-sg@comcast.com...

"Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Hq8Vc.23885$Kf4.2840@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

"Liberty1st" <liberty1st_@email.com> wrote in message
news:AfidnRnBZaawmbjcRVn-pg@comcast.com...

Ya, records that were originated by....KERRY when he filed for his

paper

cut

purple heart.

I agree that this Swift Boat thing isn't all the pubs wish it was...

but

to

claim Kerry is crystal clear and clean on this is a fallacy.

Hmmmm... All this clambering around, trying to discredit John Kerry

disprove any part of his record is beginning to get real comical..

No, what's commical is that Kerry will appear on stage with Soros and

Moore,

who have claimed all sorts of vile and lame things about Bush.... and

Kerry turns around, despite the fact Bush has come out against the Vets

add,

and claim Bush is behind it and is playing dirty politics.

It's outright hypocrisy.... Kerry is seen with the likes of Soros and

Moore,

Bush has apeared nowhere with the swiftvets and yet you left wing nuts

give

Kerry a pass and cry that Bush is playing unfair. GET SERIOUS!! Most

us

see this for what it is.

Throw in the crap that Gore, Kennedy, and other Democrats have said

Bush and Cheney... like calling Cheney a coward the other day... and it

even

gets funnier when the likes of Kerry claims foul over this stuff.

And let's face it William, Kerry could clear all this up by simply

releasing

all his military records but he wont. Instead he plays hypocrite and

sends

attorneys out to try and crush the Swift Voat Vets freedom of speach

rights.

LMAO... I don't know who "William" is.. but while you are crying for Kerry
to release his military records, let's get all the military records

by both men who are running for president..

The DD214 cited by another
poster in another thread belongs to John Kerry .. That document is

at the time of discharge and shows a pretty accurate description of a
service duty.. George Bush has been unable or unwilling to produce such a
document..

FYI.. that document is handed to the serviceman after he is processed for
discharge.. Subject to clerical errors, it is accurate for duty stations

other pertinenet information pertaining to the man's records.. "Not
available" is no excuse and Bush doesn't have to give permission to

the document.. Since it is in his possession, he should willingly hand it
over to the first reporter that he comes in contact with... Why hasn't

done this..??

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

With his
crew members standing solidly behind the man, it is downright

..

The desperation is a riot..

His crew members? Out of 23 people who served with Kerry... 17 are on

side of the Swift Boat Vets on this. That leaves 6 and 3 of them refuse

to

get involved.

So let's deal with facts and not rhetoric if you please.

Meantime.. back at the "ranch".. Bush and his supporters have such a
difficult time .. Seems .. they are desperately trying to make

forget that Shrub opted out of the Viet Nam war..

A non issue when we look at Clinton and how the same Democrats who now
vilify Bush for being in the National Guard said Clinton being outright

draft dodger was no big thing.

The cowardly little
*****, chose.. instead to use his family influence.. enlist in the

National Guard..

That hardly makes him a coward. This type comment flushes what little
credibility you had left.

He cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars,
training him to contribute his services to the military, in a

fashion..

Nonsense.

Whoops.. seems Dubya couldn't even cut it in that cushy position and

taxpayers dollars were wasted, when he walked away and deserted.. by

going

AWOL...

An outright lie... and one Kerry even says is a lie. LIAR!!

Lest we forget.. Kerry volunteered for the military.. volunteered to

serve

in Viet Nam.. Volunteered for the "fast boat" duty..

So what. Those he served with in large numbers say he is unfit to serve

as

Commander and Chief.

Where was the Shrub during that time period.. Who knows? He wasn't at

his

designated duty station..

An outright lie. One you know is a lie...making your credibility even
lower.

Quite a contrast.. between the two men who are running for president..

huh

?

Yes... one man can remember what he says 17 days ago... and one

cannot.

"Why are we withdrawing (he actually said 'withdrawring') unilaterally
12,000 troops from the Korean peninsula at the very time that we are
negotiating with North Korea, a country that really has nuclear weapons.
This is clearly the wrong signal to send at the wrong time." John

August 18, 2004
"I will have significant, enormous reductions in the level of troops

the Korean peninsula perhaps, in Europe perhaps." John Kerry, August 1,

2004

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

"mobiledan" <dcreen@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:sV5Vc.2303$ck7.1129@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...

washingtonpost.com
Records Counter a Critic of Kerry
Fellow Skipper's Citation Refers To Enemy Fire

By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 19, 2004; Page A01


Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's

vocal

critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of

lying

about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version

of

events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow,

commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has

disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came

under

fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March

1969.

Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released

yesterday

to

The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain

several

references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire"

at

"all

units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star

that

day,

and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged

Swift

boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

As one of five Swift boat skippers who led the raid up the Bay Hap

River,

Thurlow was a direct participant in the disputed events. He is

a

leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy

group

of

Vietnam veterans dismayed by Kerry's subsequent antiwar

which

has aired a controversial television advertisement attacking his

record.

In interviews and written reminiscences, Kerry has described how

50-foot

patrol boat came under fire from the banks of the Bay Hap after a

mine

explosion disabled another U.S. patrol boat. According to Kerry

members

of his crew, the firing continued as an injured Kerry leaned over

the

bow

of

his ship to rescue a Special Forces officer who was blown

in

a

second explosion.

Last month, Thurlow swore in an affidavit that Kerry was "not

fire"

when he fished Lt. James Rassmann out of the water. He described

Kerry's

Bronze Star citation, which says that all units involved came

"small

arms and automatic weapons fire," as "totally fabricated."

"I never heard a shot," Thurlow said in his affidavit, which was

released

by

Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. The group claims the backing of

than

250 Vietnam veterans, including a majority of Kerry's fellow boat
commanders.

A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all

his

actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which

THURLOW

completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the

disabled

boat

and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the

flotilla

also

came under fire.

"It's like a Hollywood presentation here, which wasn't the case,"

Thurlow

said last night after being read the full text of his Bronze Star

citation.

"My personal feeling was always that I got the award for coming to

the

rescue of the boat that was mined. This casts doubt on anybody's

awards.

It

is sickening and disgusting."

Thurlow said he would consider his award "fraudulent" if coming

under

enemy

fire was the basis for it. "I am here to state that we weren't

fire,"

he said. He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at

least

some of the language used in the citation.

In a telephone interview Tuesday evening after he attended a Swift

Boat

Veterans strategy session in an Arlington hotel, Thurlow said he

lost

his

Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he was

unwilling

to

authorize release of his military records because he feared

by

the

Kerry campaign to discredit him and other anti-Kerry veterans.

The Post filed an independent request for the documents with the

National

Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, which is the central

repository

for

veterans' records. The documents were faxed to The Post by

at

the

records center yesterday.

Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that

Kerry

was

the author of an after-action report that described how his boat

came

under

enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and

there

is

no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the

senior

skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write

the

after-action report for March 13, but he said that Kerry routinely

"duked

the system" to present his version of events.

For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know

firsthand

what

was happening on Thurlow's boat, as Kerry's boat had sped down the

river

after the mine exploded under another boat. He later returned to

provide

assistance to the stricken boat.

Thurlow, an oil industry worker and former teacher in Kansas, said

he

was

angry with Kerry for his antiwar activities on his return to the

United

States and particularly Kerry's claim before the Senate Foreign

Relations

Committee that U.S. troops in Vietnam had committed war crimes

the

full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

" 'Upset' is too mild a word," said Thurlow, a registered

Republican,

of

his

reaction to Kerry then. "He did it strictly for his own personal

political

gain, and it directly affected every single one of us as we were

trying

to

put our lives together."

Two other Swift boat skippers who were direct participants in the

March

13,

1969, mine explosion on the Bay Hap, Jack Chenoweth and Richard

Pees,

have

said they do not remember coming under "enemy fire." A fourth

commander,

Don

Droz, who was one of Kerry's closest friends in Vietnam, was

in

action a month later.

The incident featured prominently in an anti-Kerry television ad

produced

by

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth earlier this month. "John Kerry lied

to

get

his Bronze Star," says Van Odell, a gunner on PCF-23, one of the

boats

that

came to the rescue of the stricken boat. "I know. I was there."

The Bronze Star controversy is also a major focus of an anti-Kerry

book

by

John E. O'Neill, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out

Against

John Kerry," which will hit No. 2 on The Post's bestseller list

weekend. The book accuses Kerry of "fleeing the scene" and lying

repeatedly

about his role.

Members of Kerry's crew have come to his defense, as has Rassmann,

the

Special Forces officer whom he fished from the river. Rassmann

he

has

vivid memories of being fired at from both banks after he fell

the

river and as Kerry came to his rescue. The two had an emotional

reunion

on

the eve of the Iowa Democratic caucuses in January, an event that

some

political analysts believe helped swing votes to Kerry at a

time.

The Bronze Star recommendations for both Kerry and Thurlow were

signed

by

Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott, who received reports on the incident

from

his

base in the Gulf of Thailand. Elliott is a supporter of Swift Boat

Veterans

for Truth and has questioned Kerry's actions in Vietnam. But he

refused

repeated requests for an interview after issuing conflicting

statements

to

the Boston Globe about whether Kerry deserved a Silver Star. He

unreachable last night.

Money has poured into Swift Boat Veterans for Truth since the

launched

its television advertisement attacking Kerry earlier this month.

According

to O'Neill, the group has received more than $450,000 over the

two

weeks, mainly in small contributions. The Dallas Morning News

reported

yesterday that the organization has also received two $100,000

checks

from

Houston home builder Bob Perry, who backed George W. Bush's

campaigns

for

Texas governor and for president.

Bush campaign officials have said they have no connection to Swift

Boat

Veterans for Truth, which is not permitted to coordinate its

activities

with

a presidential campaign under federal election law.




© 2004 The Washington Post Company





--
The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs

one's

means.
Napoleon Bonaparte