| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Captain Compassion" |
| Date: |
26 Oct 2004 01:19:08 AM |
| Object: |
Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives,
they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that
reportedly went missing, according to NBC.
The International Atomic Energy revealed Monday that it had been told
two weeks ago by the Iraqi government that 380 tons of HMX and RDX
disappeared from Al Qaqaa after Saddam Hussein's government fell.
In a letter to the IAEA dated October 10, Iraq's director of planning,
Mohammed Abbas, said the material disappeared sometime after Saddam's
regime fell in April 2003, which he attributed to "the theft and
looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."
Baghdad fell on April 9, 2003. According to NBC, troops from the 101st
Airborne arrived the next day to find that the material was already
gone.
Prior to the Iraq war, the high-grade explosives at Al Qaqaa had been
under the control of IAEA inspectors because the material could be
used as a component in a nuclear weapon, IAEA spokeswoman Melissa
Fleming said. IAEA and other U.N. inspectors left the country in March
2003 before the fighting began on March 19.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday that five days after
the IAEA received the letter from the Iraqi government, the agency
alerted U.S. officials in Vienna, who in turn told National Security
Director Condoleezza Rice. She then alerted Bush, McClellan said.
Once U.S. officials were alerted, the multinational force in Iraq and
the Iraq Survey Group, charged with hunting for weapons in Iraq, were
both ordered to investigate what was missing and the possible
circumstances, according to State Department spokesman Adam Ereli.
"We, from the very beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, did
everything we could to secure arms caches throughout the country,"
Ereli said. "But given the number of arms and the number of caches and
the extent of militarization of Iraq, it was impossible to provide 100
percent security for 100 percent of the sites, quite frankly."
The news of the missing explosives followed an IAEA report earlier
this month that said high-end, dual-use machinery that could be used
in a nuclear weapons program was missing from Iraq's nuclear
facilities. (Full story)
"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the
wrong hands, they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of
the bombings that we've seen," the IAEA's Fleming said.
She described Al Qaqaa as "massive" and said it is one of the most
well-known storage sites. Besides the explosives, it also held large
caches of artillery.
Fleming said the IAEA, which is based in Vienna, Austria, did not know
whether some of the explosives may have been used in past attacks.
The IAEA said that before the war it inspected the Al Qaqaa facility
multiple times and verified that the material was present in January
2003. The agency said the material was mentioned in reports to the
U.N. Security Council that were made public.
Ereli said coalition forces searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings
at the Al Qaqaa facility after the war for weapons of mass
destruction. The troops found none, but did see indications of
looting, he said. Bush declared an end to major combat operations in
Iraq on May 1, 2003.
"Some explosive material at the time was discovered, although none of
it carried IAEA seals, and this discovery was reported to coalition
forces for removal of the material," Ereli said.
Ereli said coalition forces have cleared 10,033 weapons caches and
destroyed 243,000 tons of munitions. Another 162,898 tons of munitions
are at secure locations and awaiting destruction, he said.
A senior administration official played down the importance of the
missing explosives, describing them as dangerous material but "stuff
you can buy anywhere."
The official noted that the administration did not see this
necessarily as a "proliferation risk."
"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of
tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted
for in Iraq," the official said.
"And like the Pentagon has said, there is really no way the U.S.
military could safeguard all of these weapons depots or find all of
these missing materials."
The official said the Iraq Survey Group concluded that Saddam had no
weapons of mass destruction and documented the scope of the problem.
Threat from terrorists
A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei,
director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the
potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.
"The immediate danger" of the lost stockpiles is its potential use by
insurgents to make small, but powerful, bombs, an expert told the
Times. The expert said the explosives could be transported easily
across the Middle East.
According to the Times, the stockpiles missing from Al Qaqaa are the
strongest and fastest in common use by militaries around the globe.
The Iraqi letter to the IAEA identified the vanished explosives as
containing 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or "high melting point
explosive," 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or "rapid detonation explosive,"
among other designations, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or
"pentaerythritol tetranitrate."
Fleming said the IAEA, whose mission is to keep track of everything
with potential nuclear weapons applications, had been monitoring about
100 sites in Iraq, but there were only a few of special concern,
including Al Qaqaa.
"This is a real massive quantity of explosives that could have reached
the hands of insurgents and could be used with deadly force and
consequences against people in Iraq," Fleming said.
"One would have to assume it's been stolen by someone who has some
sort of nefarious purpose for it."
Political fallout
With the U.S. presidential election eight days away, news of the
missing explosives quickly became campaign fodder.
Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry immediately seized on the
information to accuse President Bush of incompetence in failing to
secure the material, charging that "this is one of the great blunders
of Iraq and one of the great blunders of this administration."
But in the wake of the NBC report, the Bush campaign fired off a
statement saying that Kerry's criticism of the president over the
missing material has "been proven false before the day is over."
"John Kerry's attacks today were baseless," Bush campaign spokesman
Steve Schmidt said. "He said American troops did not secure the
explosives, when the explosives were already missing."
Schmidt also said that Kerry "neglects to mention the 400,000 tons of
weapons and explosives that are either destroyed or in the process of
being destroyed" in Iraq.
But Kerry senior adviser Joe Lockhart fired back with a statement of
his own, accusing the Bush campaign of "distorting" the NBC News
report.
"In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of
highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately
flailing in an effort to escape blame," Lockhart said. "It is the
latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a
mistake, no matter how disastrous."
Lockhart did not elaborate on how the Bush campaign was distorting the
NBC report.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in
North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." -- Paul
Galanti POW Jan. 1966 - Feb. 1973
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "MrPepper11" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 10:08:04 AM |
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Captain Compassion <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message news:<ppqrn0lb0e99jfr5nb59dmcq01kn4gpfho@4ax.com>...
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives,
they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that
reportedly went missing, according to NBC.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_24.php
Let's review some of the problems.
First, military and non-proliferation analysts say that a detachment
of soldiers not specifically trained in weapons inspections work and
certainly an NBC news crew simply wouldn't be in a position to make
such a determination. We're not talking about a storage unit with a
few boxes in it, but a massive weapons complex made up of almost a
hundred buildings and bunkers.
Former weapons inspector David Albright was asked about this on CNN
Monday evening and he said, "I would want to check it out. I mean it's
a big site. These bunkers are big and it could get lost in that
complex and it may be that they just didn't go to the right places and
didn't see it."
In any case, that visit wasn't the first time US troops went to the
facility. That happened a week earlier, on April 4th, as was reported
at the time. According to an AP account from the following day, the
troops made spot visits to some of the buildings and found chemical
warfare antidotes but no WMD.
The same report says they also found "thousands of five-centimetre by
12-centimetre boxes, each containing three vials of white powder"
which were initially believed to be chemical agents but were later
determined to be "explosives."
Like the visit on the 10th, this visit seems to have been far from
exhaustive and thus far from conclusive about what was there. Neither
visit seems to provide clear evidence that the explosives were gone --
and the first may point in the opposite direction. (Further details
about this first visit to al Qaqaa are contained in this April 5th
article by the Post's Barton Gellman.)
Next comes the question of whether this really could have been pulled
off at all under the circumstances.
As we noted earlier, there's a relatively brief window of time we're
talking about when this stuff could have been carted away --
specifically, from March 8th (when the IAEA last checked it) until
April 4th when the first US troops appear to have arrived on the
scene.
Certainly there would have been time enough to move the stuff. That's
almost a month. But this would be a massive and quite visible
undertaking. As the Times noted yesterday, moving this material would
have taken a fleet of about forty big trucks each moving about ten
tons of explosives. And this was at a time -- the week before and then
during the war -- when Iraq's skies were positively crawling with
American aerial and satellite reconnaissance.
Considering that al Qaqaa was a major munitions installation where the
US also suspected there might be WMD, it's difficult to believe that
we wouldn't have noticed a convoy of forty huge trucks carting stuff
away.
As the LA Times notes in Tuesday's paper, it's just not particularly
credible ...
"Given the size of the missing cache, it would have been difficult to
relocate undetected before the invasion, when U.S. spy satellites were
monitoring activity at sites suspected of concealing nuclear and
biological weapons.
"You don't just move this stuff in the middle of the night," said a
former U.S. intelligence official who worked in Baghdad."
If we had seen something like that happening, it's hard to figure we
wouldn't have bombed the convoy, since the US had complete air
superiority through the entire campaign. And if the thought that WMD
might be on those trucks had prevented such an attack, certainly there
would have been running surveillance of where the stuff was going and
where it ended up.
.
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| User: "Bush 285 - Kerry 247" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 10:26:42 AM |
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"MrPepper11" <MrPepper11@go.com> wrote in message
news:57cfd534.0410260708.4d1681e@posting.google.com...
Captain Compassion <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:<ppqrn0lb0e99jfr5nb59dmcq01kn4gpfho@4ax.com>...
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives,
they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that
reportedly went missing, according to NBC.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_24.php
Let's review some of the problems.
First, military and non-proliferation analysts say that a detachment
of soldiers not specifically trained in weapons inspections work and
certainly an NBC news crew simply wouldn't be in a position to make
such a determination.
LOL! And so begins the Demmies' DESPERATE attempt to spin John Kerry out
of the absolute ***** he has made of himself!
Keeerie ain't gonna be able to spin his way out of this latest lie of his,
Demmie boys and girls. His French-looking goose is cooked.
And right before the election too.....
Gee, what a shame.....
LOL!!
.
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| User: "Spartakus" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 09:41:53 PM |
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Captain Compassion <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote...
Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
Heh. That story is no longer operative. We've since learned that
American troops were at Al Qaqaa some six days earlier, and found the
cache of explosives intact. This was reported by the Associated Press
on April 5, 2003. As you stated, the 101st Airborne was there on
April 10,
but they did not perform any organized search.
In fact, all they did was look around and note that a lot of looting
seems to have taken place. It is not certain that they were in the
same part of the huge weapons complex as where the explosives were
stockpiled.
When Baghdad fell, we had enough troops to secure the Oil Ministry,
but not enough to secure Al Qaqaa. When you fail to plan, you plan to
fail.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410260007
.
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| User: "Polish Prince \Not Bobby Vinton" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 02:44:21 AM |
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It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
We can only depend upon the intelligence
of the American People, to see through
Lies, False Accusations and Nonsense.
Maybe some actually do some independent
research!
Our Future depends upon the intelligence
of the American People.
What is most Sad, I was a dedicated Democrat
at one time, as most blue-collar, Slavic people
were. Believe me, in the present time,
it is very hard to admit that.
The Democrat Party has been Hijacked by
the Extreme Left.
The Party of J.F.K. no longer exists.
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:ppqrn0lb0e99jfr5nb59dmcq01kn4gpfho@4ax.com...
Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives,
they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that
reportedly went missing, according to NBC.
The International Atomic Energy revealed Monday that it had been told
two weeks ago by the Iraqi government that 380 tons of HMX and RDX
disappeared from Al Qaqaa after Saddam Hussein's government fell.
In a letter to the IAEA dated October 10, Iraq's director of planning,
Mohammed Abbas, said the material disappeared sometime after Saddam's
regime fell in April 2003, which he attributed to "the theft and
looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."
Baghdad fell on April 9, 2003. According to NBC, troops from the 101st
Airborne arrived the next day to find that the material was already
gone.
Prior to the Iraq war, the high-grade explosives at Al Qaqaa had been
under the control of IAEA inspectors because the material could be
used as a component in a nuclear weapon, IAEA spokeswoman Melissa
Fleming said. IAEA and other U.N. inspectors left the country in March
2003 before the fighting began on March 19.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday that five days after
the IAEA received the letter from the Iraqi government, the agency
alerted U.S. officials in Vienna, who in turn told National Security
Director Condoleezza Rice. She then alerted Bush, McClellan said.
Once U.S. officials were alerted, the multinational force in Iraq and
the Iraq Survey Group, charged with hunting for weapons in Iraq, were
both ordered to investigate what was missing and the possible
circumstances, according to State Department spokesman Adam Ereli.
"We, from the very beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, did
everything we could to secure arms caches throughout the country,"
Ereli said. "But given the number of arms and the number of caches and
the extent of militarization of Iraq, it was impossible to provide 100
percent security for 100 percent of the sites, quite frankly."
The news of the missing explosives followed an IAEA report earlier
this month that said high-end, dual-use machinery that could be used
in a nuclear weapons program was missing from Iraq's nuclear
facilities. (Full story)
"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the
wrong hands, they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of
the bombings that we've seen," the IAEA's Fleming said.
She described Al Qaqaa as "massive" and said it is one of the most
well-known storage sites. Besides the explosives, it also held large
caches of artillery.
Fleming said the IAEA, which is based in Vienna, Austria, did not know
whether some of the explosives may have been used in past attacks.
The IAEA said that before the war it inspected the Al Qaqaa facility
multiple times and verified that the material was present in January
2003. The agency said the material was mentioned in reports to the
U.N. Security Council that were made public.
Ereli said coalition forces searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings
at the Al Qaqaa facility after the war for weapons of mass
destruction. The troops found none, but did see indications of
looting, he said. Bush declared an end to major combat operations in
Iraq on May 1, 2003.
"Some explosive material at the time was discovered, although none of
it carried IAEA seals, and this discovery was reported to coalition
forces for removal of the material," Ereli said.
Ereli said coalition forces have cleared 10,033 weapons caches and
destroyed 243,000 tons of munitions. Another 162,898 tons of munitions
are at secure locations and awaiting destruction, he said.
A senior administration official played down the importance of the
missing explosives, describing them as dangerous material but "stuff
you can buy anywhere."
The official noted that the administration did not see this
necessarily as a "proliferation risk."
"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of
tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted
for in Iraq," the official said.
"And like the Pentagon has said, there is really no way the U.S.
military could safeguard all of these weapons depots or find all of
these missing materials."
The official said the Iraq Survey Group concluded that Saddam had no
weapons of mass destruction and documented the scope of the problem.
Threat from terrorists
A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei,
director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the
potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.
"The immediate danger" of the lost stockpiles is its potential use by
insurgents to make small, but powerful, bombs, an expert told the
Times. The expert said the explosives could be transported easily
across the Middle East.
According to the Times, the stockpiles missing from Al Qaqaa are the
strongest and fastest in common use by militaries around the globe.
The Iraqi letter to the IAEA identified the vanished explosives as
containing 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or "high melting point
explosive," 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or "rapid detonation explosive,"
among other designations, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or
"pentaerythritol tetranitrate."
Fleming said the IAEA, whose mission is to keep track of everything
with potential nuclear weapons applications, had been monitoring about
100 sites in Iraq, but there were only a few of special concern,
including Al Qaqaa.
"This is a real massive quantity of explosives that could have reached
the hands of insurgents and could be used with deadly force and
consequences against people in Iraq," Fleming said.
"One would have to assume it's been stolen by someone who has some
sort of nefarious purpose for it."
Political fallout
With the U.S. presidential election eight days away, news of the
missing explosives quickly became campaign fodder.
Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry immediately seized on the
information to accuse President Bush of incompetence in failing to
secure the material, charging that "this is one of the great blunders
of Iraq and one of the great blunders of this administration."
But in the wake of the NBC report, the Bush campaign fired off a
statement saying that Kerry's criticism of the president over the
missing material has "been proven false before the day is over."
"John Kerry's attacks today were baseless," Bush campaign spokesman
Steve Schmidt said. "He said American troops did not secure the
explosives, when the explosives were already missing."
Schmidt also said that Kerry "neglects to mention the 400,000 tons of
weapons and explosives that are either destroyed or in the process of
being destroyed" in Iraq.
But Kerry senior adviser Joe Lockhart fired back with a statement of
his own, accusing the Bush campaign of "distorting" the NBC News
report.
"In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of
highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately
flailing in an effort to escape blame," Lockhart said. "It is the
latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a
mistake, no matter how disastrous."
Lockhart did not elaborate on how the Bush campaign was distorting the
NBC report.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in
North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." -- Paul
Galanti POW Jan. 1966 - Feb. 1973
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 03:30:08 AM |
|
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Polish Prince (Not Bobby Vinton) wrote:
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998. It
wasn't destroyed because it was classified as a dual use weapon - it
could be used for atom bombs, or for conventional weapons, just like
petri dishes can be used to grow penicilin or anthrax. The US knew it
was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the invasion, it
should have been secured. It wasn't secured. The Bush administration
is responsible for not securing it. Now, due to the Bush
Administration's incompetence, it is in the hands of terrorists who are
using it to kill Americans and others.
We can only depend upon the intelligence
of the American People, to see through
Lies, False Accusations and Nonsense.
Maybe some actually do some independent
research!
I don't believe that you are even understanding this issue at all,
Independent researcher. Forget the election for a moment. Bush has
again put us all at high risk through his bumblings.
Our Future depends upon the intelligence
of the American People.
Which is exactly why we will send Bush home to Crawdad, Texas, next week.
What is most Sad, I was a dedicated Democrat
at one time, as most blue-collar, Slavic people
were. Believe me, in the present time,
it is very hard to admit that.
Why do I see you blowing hot air out of your *****?
The Democrat Party has been Hijacked by
the Extreme Left.
The Party of J.F.K. no longer exists.
Yes it does. And it will be in the Oval Office shortly.
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:ppqrn0lb0e99jfr5nb59dmcq01kn4gpfho@4ax.com...
Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives,
they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that
reportedly went missing, according to NBC.
The International Atomic Energy revealed Monday that it had been told
two weeks ago by the Iraqi government that 380 tons of HMX and RDX
disappeared from Al Qaqaa after Saddam Hussein's government fell.
In a letter to the IAEA dated October 10, Iraq's director of planning,
Mohammed Abbas, said the material disappeared sometime after Saddam's
regime fell in April 2003, which he attributed to "the theft and
looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."
Baghdad fell on April 9, 2003. According to NBC, troops from the 101st
Airborne arrived the next day to find that the material was already
gone.
Prior to the Iraq war, the high-grade explosives at Al Qaqaa had been
under the control of IAEA inspectors because the material could be
used as a component in a nuclear weapon, IAEA spokeswoman Melissa
Fleming said. IAEA and other U.N. inspectors left the country in March
2003 before the fighting began on March 19.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday that five days after
the IAEA received the letter from the Iraqi government, the agency
alerted U.S. officials in Vienna, who in turn told National Security
Director Condoleezza Rice. She then alerted Bush, McClellan said.
Once U.S. officials were alerted, the multinational force in Iraq and
the Iraq Survey Group, charged with hunting for weapons in Iraq, were
both ordered to investigate what was missing and the possible
circumstances, according to State Department spokesman Adam Ereli.
"We, from the very beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, did
everything we could to secure arms caches throughout the country,"
Ereli said. "But given the number of arms and the number of caches and
the extent of militarization of Iraq, it was impossible to provide 100
percent security for 100 percent of the sites, quite frankly."
The news of the missing explosives followed an IAEA report earlier
this month that said high-end, dual-use machinery that could be used
in a nuclear weapons program was missing from Iraq's nuclear
facilities. (Full story)
"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the
wrong hands, they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of
the bombings that we've seen," the IAEA's Fleming said.
She described Al Qaqaa as "massive" and said it is one of the most
well-known storage sites. Besides the explosives, it also held large
caches of artillery.
Fleming said the IAEA, which is based in Vienna, Austria, did not know
whether some of the explosives may have been used in past attacks.
The IAEA said that before the war it inspected the Al Qaqaa facility
multiple times and verified that the material was present in January
2003. The agency said the material was mentioned in reports to the
U.N. Security Council that were made public.
Ereli said coalition forces searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings
at the Al Qaqaa facility after the war for weapons of mass
destruction. The troops found none, but did see indications of
looting, he said. Bush declared an end to major combat operations in
Iraq on May 1, 2003.
"Some explosive material at the time was discovered, although none of
it carried IAEA seals, and this discovery was reported to coalition
forces for removal of the material," Ereli said.
Ereli said coalition forces have cleared 10,033 weapons caches and
destroyed 243,000 tons of munitions. Another 162,898 tons of munitions
are at secure locations and awaiting destruction, he said.
A senior administration official played down the importance of the
missing explosives, describing them as dangerous material but "stuff
you can buy anywhere."
The official noted that the administration did not see this
necessarily as a "proliferation risk."
"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of
tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted
for in Iraq," the official said.
"And like the Pentagon has said, there is really no way the U.S.
military could safeguard all of these weapons depots or find all of
these missing materials."
The official said the Iraq Survey Group concluded that Saddam had no
weapons of mass destruction and documented the scope of the problem.
Threat from terrorists
A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei,
director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the
potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.
"The immediate danger" of the lost stockpiles is its potential use by
insurgents to make small, but powerful, bombs, an expert told the
Times. The expert said the explosives could be transported easily
across the Middle East.
According to the Times, the stockpiles missing from Al Qaqaa are the
strongest and fastest in common use by militaries around the globe.
The Iraqi letter to the IAEA identified the vanished explosives as
containing 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or "high melting point
explosive," 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or "rapid detonation explosive,"
among other designations, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or
"pentaerythritol tetranitrate."
Fleming said the IAEA, whose mission is to keep track of everything
with potential nuclear weapons applications, had been monitoring about
100 sites in Iraq, but there were only a few of special concern,
including Al Qaqaa.
"This is a real massive quantity of explosives that could have reached
the hands of insurgents and could be used with deadly force and
consequences against people in Iraq," Fleming said.
"One would have to assume it's been stolen by someone who has some
sort of nefarious purpose for it."
Political fallout
With the U.S. presidential election eight days away, news of the
missing explosives quickly became campaign fodder.
Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry immediately seized on the
information to accuse President Bush of incompetence in failing to
secure the material, charging that "this is one of the great blunders
of Iraq and one of the great blunders of this administration."
But in the wake of the NBC report, the Bush campaign fired off a
statement saying that Kerry's criticism of the president over the
missing material has "been proven false before the day is over."
"John Kerry's attacks today were baseless," Bush campaign spokesman
Steve Schmidt said. "He said American troops did not secure the
explosives, when the explosives were already missing."
Schmidt also said that Kerry "neglects to mention the 400,000 tons of
weapons and explosives that are either destroyed or in the process of
being destroyed" in Iraq.
But Kerry senior adviser Joe Lockhart fired back with a statement of
his own, accusing the Bush campaign of "distorting" the NBC News
report.
"In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of
highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately
flailing in an effort to escape blame," Lockhart said. "It is the
latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a
mistake, no matter how disastrous."
Lockhart did not elaborate on how the Bush campaign was distorting the
NBC report.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in
North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." -- Paul
Galanti POW Jan. 1966 - Feb. 1973
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "Jim" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 10:17:00 AM |
|
|
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
.
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| User: ".bot" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 12:10:04 PM |
|
|
"Jim" <somd_jim2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1a9cb195.0410260717.84c1ec@posting.google.com...
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
WELL SAID!
This is why Libs are dangerous.
.
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| User: "DsRt" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 12:14:16 PM |
|
|
http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/
".bot" <bot@bot.com> wrote in message
news:Mxvfd.23427$bz4.5073579@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
"Jim" <somd_jim2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1a9cb195.0410260717.84c1ec@posting.google.com...
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
WELL SAID!
This is why Libs are dangerous.
.
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 04:28:12 PM |
|
|
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
.
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| User: "Bush 285 - Kerry 247" |
|
| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 04:40:37 PM |
|
|
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EC16C.5050304@oco.net...
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged by
the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived.
Yes it was. The MSNBC imbedded reporter said so.
Go invent another scam, Mr. Demmie. Nobody believes you Demmies or your NYT
stooges any more, pal.
And Kerry is toast.
.
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
|
| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 06:31:58 PM |
|
|
Bush 285 - Kerry 247 wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EC16C.5050304@oco.net...
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged by
the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived.
Yes it was. The MSNBC imbedded reporter said so.
Go invent another scam, Mr. Demmie. Nobody believes you Demmies or your NYT
stooges any more, pal.
And Kerry is toast.
Well, then, how about Fox?
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,83252,00.html
.
|
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| User: "Bush 285 - Kerry 247" |
|
| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 06:51:54 PM |
|
|
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EDE6E.8020304@oco.net...
Bush 285 - Kerry 247 wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EC16C.5050304@oco.net...
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of
the invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived.
Yes it was. The MSNBC imbedded reporter said so.
Go invent another scam, Mr. Demmie. Nobody believes you Demmies or your
NYT stooges any more, pal.
And Kerry is toast.
Well, then, how about Fox?
They think Kerry is toast too. Why do you ask? Is Fox now your reference
standard??
.
|
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
|
| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 07:46:46 PM |
|
|
Bush 285 - Kerry 247 wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EDE6E.8020304@oco.net...
Bush 285 - Kerry 247 wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EC16C.5050304@oco.net...
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of
the invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived.
Yes it was. The MSNBC imbedded reporter said so.
Go invent another scam, Mr. Demmie. Nobody believes you Demmies or your
NYT stooges any more, pal.
And Kerry is toast.
Well, then, how about Fox?
They think Kerry is toast too. Why do you ask? Is Fox now your reference
standard??
How about Fox, then, Kiddo:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,83252,00.html
.
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| User: "Tom Betz" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 09:52:40 PM |
|
|
Quoth "Bush 285 - Kerry 247" <FaithHealerKerry@DNCsucks.com> in news:pvzfd.3297$kM.1820@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:417EC16C.5050304@oco.net...
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived.
Yes it was. The MSNBC imbedded reporter said so.
Why must you persist in lying when MSNBC says it ain't so?
From <http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/>:
No one disputes that the explosives are missing. The crucial
question is exactly when they disappeared. Iraq’s Ministry of
Science and Technology told the IAEA that the explosives were
looted sometime in the seven weeks after U.S. forces showed up
in Al-Qaqaa, when they presumably could have taken steps to
secure the materials.
Three-week window
U.S. defense officials said Tuesday that the materials could
have vanished during a period of about three weeks, between
March 15, 2003, when inspectors for the IAEA confirmed that at
least some of the materials were still stored under IAEA seal
at Al-Qaqaa, and April 4, when U.S. troops arrived.
On March 15, said Melissa Fleming, a spokeswoman for the
IAEA, “the seals on the doors on the bunkers were checked at
many of the bunkers to see if they were still there and hadn’t
been tampered with, and that was the case.”
The war in Iraq began March 20. Army officials told NBC News
on condition of anonymity that troops from the Army’s 3rd
Infantry did not arrive at Al-Qaqaa until April 4, finding
“looters everywhere” carrying what they could out on their
backs.
The troops searched bunkers and found conventional weapons
but no high explosives, the officials said. Six days later,
the 101st Airborne Division arrived. Neither group was
specifically searching for HMX or RDX, and the complex is so
large — with more than 1,000 buildings — that it is not clear
that the troops even saw the bunkers that might have held the
explosives.
The Iraq Survey Group discovered that the stockpiles of HMX
and RDX were missing on May 27, seven weeks after the last
visit by U.S. troops.
U.S. defense officials contended that the Iraqis were
dispersing many of their weapons before the war, but they had
no direct intelligence to prove it. These officials stressed
that, in any event, there was no evidence that the missing HMX
or RDX had been used against coalition forces in Iraq.
‘No move to secure the weapons’
Critics accused the U.S. military of being so intent on
finding weapons of mass destruction that it paid too little
attention to securing powerful conventional explosives like
HMX and RDX.
An NBC News crew that accompanied the U.S. soldiers who
seized the base three weeks into the war said troops saw no
sign of the missing HMX and RDX.
Reporter Lai Ling Jew, who was embedded with the Army’s 101st
Airborne, 2nd Brigade, said Tuesday on MSNBC TV that the news
team stayed at the base for about 24 hours.
“There wasn’t a search,” she said. “The mission that the
brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop
there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean, certainly
some of the soldiers headed off on their own, looked through
the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying
around.
“But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the
weapons, nothing to keep looters away.”
Lt. Col. Fred Wellman, the unit’s spokesman, appeared to
confirm NBC’s report in an e-mail message Tuesday to The
Associated Press, saying the brigade did not have orders to
search for the explosives that Iraqi officials say were
stolen.
The soldiers “secured the area they were in and looked in a
limited amount of bunkers to ensure chemical weapons were not
present in their area,” Wellman wrote. “Bombs were found but
not chemical weapons in that immediate area.
“Orders were not given from higher to search or to secure the
facility or to search for HE type munitions [high-explosive
weapons], as they were everywhere in Iraq,” he wrote.
--
George Bush's War of Choice on Iraq is a totally unnecessary war.
Every life lost, every limb lost, every disfigurement, every
disability caused there is more blood on George W. Bush's hands,
and on the hands of everyone who votes for George W. Bush.
For the facts on Iraq, see <http://optruth.org>.
Feeling a draft? <http://shorterlink.com/?930B5U>
The more you know, the less likely you are to vote for George Bush.
<http://shorterlink.com/?47TBP8>
.
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| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 05:44:47 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:12 -0700, "Erik A. Mattila"
<emattila@oco.net> wrote:
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
It was GONE. Even NBC who had imbeded reporters with the troops said
that it was gone before April 10, 2003 when the 101st arrived and
searched the facility.
Another bogus story by CBS and the NYT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in
North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." -- Paul
Galanti POW Jan. 1966 - Feb. 1973
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Lockhart" |
|
| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 05:58:59 PM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:icktn0db9ovaqs1q8dars4s9lhn9u9dt3g@4ax.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:12 -0700, "Erik A. Mattila"
<emattila@oco.net> wrote:
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
It was GONE. Even NBC who had imbeded reporters with the troops said
that it was gone before April 10, 2003 when the 101st arrived and
searched the facility.
Another bogus story by CBS and the NYT.
God, do you *ever* research things before saying them? They've interviewed
the reporter and she says there was no search. Tim Benz, I think, has
posted the link to the story many times. There was no search. Another lie
from Drudge, believed unquestioningly by you guys, which promptly
disappeared from his site.
The irony of all of you demanding an apology from Kerry for noting (quite
correctly) that those arms should have been secured escapes you.
Michael
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| User: "Bush 285 - Kerry 247" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 06:02:29 PM |
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"Michael Lockhart" <ml1000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1EAfd.41611$qH3.34058@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:icktn0db9ovaqs1q8dars4s9lhn9u9dt3g@4ax.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:12 -0700, "Erik A. Mattila"
<emattila@oco.net> wrote:
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of
the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
It was GONE. Even NBC who had imbeded reporters with the troops said
that it was gone before April 10, 2003 when the 101st arrived and
searched the facility.
Another bogus story by CBS and the NYT.
God, do you *ever* research things before saying them? They've
interviewed the reporter and she says there was no search.
Not even by Kerry's beloved UN Inspectors??? What the HELL is Kerry doing
then, claiming that we needed to give the UN "inspectors" more time???
Kerry sounds like a Total ***** now!
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 07:20:13 PM |
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Bush 285 - Kerry 247 wrote:
"Michael Lockhart" <ml1000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1EAfd.41611$qH3.34058@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:icktn0db9ovaqs1q8dars4s9lhn9u9dt3g@4ax.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:12 -0700, "Erik A. Mattila"
<emattila@oco.net> wrote:
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of
the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
It was GONE. Even NBC who had imbeded reporters with the troops said
that it was gone before April 10, 2003 when the 101st arrived and
searched the facility.
Another bogus story by CBS and the NYT.
God, do you *ever* research things before saying them? They've
interviewed the reporter and she says there was no search.
Not even by Kerry's beloved UN Inspectors??? What the HELL is Kerry doing
then, claiming that we needed to give the UN "inspectors" more time???
Kerry sounds like a Total ***** now!
Not at all. Kerry is saying the obvious, i.e. that securing al QaQaa
had a higher priority in the war on terror than securing the Iraqi
Ministry of Oil. It's that simple.
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 07:17:23 PM |
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Michael Lockhart wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:icktn0db9ovaqs1q8dars4s9lhn9u9dt3g@4ax.com...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:12 -0700, "Erik A. Mattila"
<emattila@oco.net> wrote:
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message
news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
It was GONE. Even NBC who had imbeded reporters with the troops said
that it was gone before April 10, 2003 when the 101st arrived and
searched the facility.
Another bogus story by CBS and the NYT.
God, do you *ever* research things before saying them? They've interviewed
the reporter and she says there was no search. Tim Benz, I think, has
posted the link to the story many times. There was no search. Another lie
from Drudge, believed unquestioningly by you guys, which promptly
disappeared from his site.
The irony of all of you demanding an apology from Kerry for noting (quite
correctly) that those arms should have been secured escapes you.
Michael
Michael, obviously these folks are desperately grasping at straws. This
is the "October Surprise" and it went wrong for Bush. The damage to
Bush on this one is likely to be gargantuan. I mean, not only does it
underscore the charge that Bush is not fit to lead the war on terror,
the White House has chosed to lie for damage control. It may very well
be that this Sunday's 60 Minute broadcast of this story will be Bush's
"coup de grace."
The irony...or should I say "tragedy" about all this is that the
terrorist are in possession of this ordinance. It is the "weapon of
choice" of International Terrorism. So here we are deliberating
politics over all this while this ordinance has had 18 months or so to
seep into every nook and cranny of the terrorist universe. *****.
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| User: "Erik A. Mattila" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 06:49:05 PM |
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Captain Compassion wrote:
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:12 -0700, "Erik A. Mattila"
<emattila@oco.net> wrote:
Jim wrote:
"Erik A. Mattila" <emattila@oco.net> wrote in message news:<417E0B10.4050705@oco.net>...
It is like the Left accepting that the Weapons
of Mass Destruction were removed, prior to
the arrival of the coalition. They are driven.
The Left has no individual thought process.
They are marching to a drum. They are lemmings.
They have only one agenda, to remove
President Bush from Office. They will do
anything humanly possible, to accomplish
their goal. Unfortunately, most of the
press and news media, is controlled by
the Left. Most Americans depend upon
these sources for their information.
That's a nonsensical argument. The specific ordinance had been tagged
by the IAEA (The nuclear arm of the UN Arms inspectors) before 1998.
And the same UN had a loooooooooong list of WMD that Saddam possessed
and could not show were destroyed. It is the same think. Can't find
a bunch of WMD that the whole world knew were there? They never
existed, Bush lied! Can't find a small fraction of a percentage of
the total Iraqi explosives? Bush failed!
The US knew it was there. The UN knew it was there. At the time of the
invasion, it should have been secured.
It was GONE when we got there. So, tell us oh mighty master of Risk
and other military strategy games, how do you secure it BEFORE you get
there?
Jim
You're blowing hot air out of your *****, Jim. The ordinance was not gone
when the US arrived. I think about twenty people here have posted the
appropriate links. Bush is lying, and you're biting. When are you
going to get yourself some of that there Moral Clarity, kid?
It was GONE. Even NBC who had imbeded reporters with the troops said
that it was gone before April 10, 2003 when the 101st arrived and
searched the facility.
Another bogus story by CBS and the NYT.
Well, how about Fox then:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,83252,00.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in
North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." -- Paul
Galanti POW Jan. 1966 - Feb. 1973
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
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| User: "William P.F" |
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| Title: Re: Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived |
26 Oct 2004 12:49:01 PM |
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The site was well known. It was monitored by the UN. Even if the NBC
story is true, which it is not, it still does not explain why Bush did
not have the site bombed to oblivion to prevent the explosives from
falling into the hands of terrorists???
Bottom line, the exposives fiasco is just another case of Bush's
incompetence causing Americans to lose their lives.
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:19:08 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
Report: Explosives already gone when U.S. troops arrived
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.explosives/
NBC News says its crew was embedded with soldiers at time
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 Posted: 0545 GMT (1345 HKT)
(CNN) -- The mystery surrounding the disappearance of 380 tons of
powerful explosives from a storage depot in Iraq has taken a new
twist, after a network embedded with the U.S. military during the
invasion of Iraq reported that the material had already vanished by
the time American troops arrived.
NBC News reported that on April 10, 2003, its crew was embedded with
the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division when troops arrived at the Al
Qaqaa storage facility south of Baghdad.
While the troops found large stockpiles of conventional explosives,
they did not find HMX or RDX, the types of powerful explosives that
reportedly went missing, according to NBC.
The International Atomic Energy revealed Monday that it had been told
two weeks ago by the Iraqi government that 380 tons of HMX and RDX
disappeared from Al Qaqaa after Saddam Hussein's government fell.
In a letter to the IAEA dated October 10, Iraq's director of planning,
Mohammed Abbas, said the material disappeared sometime after Saddam's
regime fell in April 2003, which he attributed to "the theft and
looting of the governmental installations due to lack of security."
Baghdad fell on April 9, 2003. According to NBC, troops from the 101st
Airborne arrived the next day to find that the material was already
gone.
Prior to the Iraq war, the high-grade explosives at Al Qaqaa had been
under the control of IAEA inspectors because the material could be
used as a component in a nuclear weapon, IAEA spokeswoman Melissa
Fleming said. IAEA and other U.N. inspectors left the country in March
2003 before the fighting began on March 19.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday that five days after
the IAEA received the letter from the Iraqi government, the agency
alerted U.S. officials in Vienna, who in turn told National Security
Director Condoleezza Rice. She then alerted Bush, McClellan said.
Once U.S. officials were alerted, the multinational force in Iraq and
the Iraq Survey Group, charged with hunting for weapons in Iraq, were
both ordered to investigate what was missing and the possible
circumstances, according to State Department spokesman Adam Ereli.
"We, from the very beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, did
everything we could to secure arms caches throughout the country,"
Ereli said. "But given the number of arms and the number of caches and
the extent of militarization of Iraq, it was impossible to provide 100
percent security for 100 percent of the sites, quite frankly."
The news of the missing explosives followed an IAEA report earlier
this month that said high-end, dual-use machinery that could be used
in a nuclear weapons program was missing from Iraq's nuclear
facilities. (Full story)
"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the
wrong hands, they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of
the bombings that we've seen," the IAEA's Fleming said.
She described Al Qaqaa as "massive" and said it is one of the most
well-known storage sites. Besides the explosives, it also held large
caches of artillery.
Fleming said the IAEA, which is based in Vienna, Austria, did not know
whether some of the explosives may have been used in past attacks.
The IAEA said that before the war it inspected the Al Qaqaa facility
multiple times and verified that the material was present in January
2003. The agency said the material was mentioned in reports to the
U.N. Security Council that were made public.
Ereli said coalition forces searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings
at the Al Qaqaa facility after the war for weapons of mass
destruction. The troops found none, but did see indications of
looting, he said. Bush declared an end to major combat operations in
Iraq on May 1, 2003.
"Some explosive material at the time was discovered, although none of
it carried IAEA seals, and this discovery was reported to coalition
forces for removal of the material," Ereli said.
Ereli said coalition forces have cleared 10,033 weapons caches and
destroyed 243,000 tons of munitions. Another 162,898 tons of munitions
are at secure locations and awaiting destruction, he said.
A senior administration official played down the importance of the
missing explosives, describing them as dangerous material but "stuff
you can buy anywhere."
The official noted that the administration did not see this
necessarily as a "proliferation risk."
"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of
tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted
for in Iraq," the official said.
"And like the Pentagon has said, there is really no way the U.S.
military could safeguard all of these weapons depots or find all of
these missing materials."
The official said the Iraq Survey Group concluded that Saddam had no
weapons of mass destruction and documented the scope of the problem.
Threat from terrorists
A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei,
director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the
potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.
"The immediate danger" of the lost stockpiles is its potential use by
insurgents to make small, but powerful, bombs, an expert told the
Times. The expert said the explosives could be transported easily
across the Middle East.
According to the Times, the stockpiles missing from Al Qaqaa are the
strongest and fastest in common use by militaries around the globe.
The Iraqi letter to the IAEA identified the vanished explosives as
containing 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or "high melting point
explosive," 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or "rapid detonation explosive,"
among other designations, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or
"pentaerythritol tetranitrate."
Fleming said the IAEA, whose mission is to keep track of everything
with potential nuclear weapons applications, had been monitoring about
100 sites in Iraq, but there were only a few of special concern,
including Al Qaqaa.
"This is a real massive quantity of explosives that could have reached
the hands of insurgents and could be used with deadly force and
consequences against people in Iraq," Fleming said.
"One would have to assume it's been stolen by someone who has some
sort of nefarious purpose for it."
Political fallout
With the U.S. presidential election eight days away, news of the
missing explosives quickly became campaign fodder.
Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry immediately seized on the
information to accuse President Bush of incompetence in failing to
secure the material, charging that "this is one of the great blunders
of Iraq and one of the great blunders of this administration."
But in the wake of the NBC report, the Bush campaign fired off a
statement saying that Kerry's criticism of the president over the
missing material has "been proven false before the day is over."
"John Kerry | |