Shock and Awe Iraqi style.



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Tom Jefferson"
Date: 27 Oct 2003 05:44:54 PM
Object: Shock and Awe Iraqi style.
Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad
By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST
BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent on
death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and three
police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more than
200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S. occupation.
From north to south in this city of 5 million, the explosions over a
45-minute period left streetscapes of broken bodies, twisted wreckage and
Iraqis unnerved by an escalating underground war. The dead included a U.S.
soldier, eight Iraqi policemen and at least 26 Iraqi civilians.
"We feel helpless when we see this," said an Iraqi doctor.
Iraqi and U.S. authorities in Baghdad blamed the coordinated quadruple
blasts on foreign fighters intent on targeting those they accuse of
collaborating with U.S. forces. One captive would-be bomber was said to
carry a Syrian passport.
But in Washington, Pentagon officials said they believed loyalists of ousted
President Saddam Hussein were responsible. President Bush said insurgents
had become more "desperate" because of what he said was progress in Iraq.
The tactics suggested a level of organization that U.S. officials had
doubted the resistance possessed. In past weeks, bombers have carried out
heavy suicide bombings but in single strikes.
Not only were Monday's attacks coordinated, they also involved disguise: the
use of an Iraqi ambulance in the Red Cross attack, a police car and uniform
in a police station explosion.
The blasts, which echoed the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters here,
left the Red Cross and other aid agencies examining whether they should
decrease their presence in Iraq. Paris-based Medecins Sans Frontieres said
it would reduce its seven-member expatriate team in Baghdad.
Secretary of State Colin Powell said he hoped nongovernment organizations,
contractors and the United Nations would stay in Iraq despite the dangers.
"They are needed. Their work is needed. And if they are driven out, then the
terrorists win," Powell said in Washington.
The differing theories about who was behind the bombings underscored the
confusion generated by two days of bold, stunning attacks, beginning with a
rocket barrage on a U.S. headquarters hotel Sunday that killed a U.S.
colonel, wounded 15 other people and sent Americans scurrying to safety,
including the visiting deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.
Later Sunday, three U.S. soldiers were killed in two attacks in the Baghdad
area.
Then, at 8:30 a.m. Monday, on a warm, clear morning beginning the Muslim
fasting month of Ramadan, the first of four thunderous explosions rocked the
city.
A police car, somehow commandeered for a suicide mission and driven by a man
in police uniform, blew up after entering the courtyard of the al-Baya'a
police station in southern Baghdad, said police Brig. Gen. Ahmed Ibrahim,
the deputy interior minister.
Officers said the blast killed 15 Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, and the U.S.
military said six other Americans were wounded. American troops have been
working with Iraqi police and guarding the stations.
Just five minutes later, a second blast struck the local headquarters of the
International Committee of the Red Cross, a small, three-story building on a
quiet street in central Baghdad. This bomber, too, used a subterfuge -- an
Iraqi ambulance that apparently was able to approach the ICRC offices
without suspicion.
"I saw this ambulance driving up toward the Red Cross, and then suddenly it
blew up," said cigarette vendor Ghani Khadim. The vehicle stopped 60 feet
from the front of the Red Cross building, at a protective line of
earth-filled barrels, and disintegrated as it blew a 15-foot-wide crater in
the road.
The blast knocked down a 40-foot section of the ICRC's sandbag-backed front
wall, demolished a dozen cars and apparently broke a water main, flooding
the streets. The building's interior was wrecked -- a scene of shattered
glass, doors blown off their hinges, toppled bookcases and collapsed
ceilings.
More than 100 staff members normally would have been inside, but starting
time had been changed to 9 a.m. because of Ramadan, and probably only
one-quarter of the normal staff was present. Red Cross headquarters in
Geneva said 12 people were killed, only two of them employees, believed to
be security guards, and the rest apparently passers-by.
The Red Cross and other aid organizations reduced their Baghdad staffs after
the car bombing at U.N. headquarters that killed 23 people.
"Of course we don't understand why somebody would attack the Red Cross,"
said Nada Doumani, Baghdad spokeswoman for the ICRC, an organization that
has long strived for political neutrality.
Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of a private
clinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, who had been planning to open it as a
full-fledged hospital next month. "We feel helpless when we see this," he
said of the ICRC bombing. He couldn't understand why the Red Cross was
targeted, he said, since "this only hurts guards and other Iraqis."
Twenty minutes after the ICRC attack, another car bomber detonated his
explosives-packed vehicle at a police station near a marketplace in north
Baghdad.
After another 20 minutes, the fourth suicide bomber struck in southwest
Baghdad, at the al-Khudra police station, destroying the front of the
building.
Besides the dead, at least 224 people were reported wounded in the four
attacks, including 65 policemen, Ibrahim said. The 34 dead he reported
apparently did not include the American soldier the U.S. command said was
killed at al-Baya'a, nor was it clear whether he was counting the four
suicide drivers.
At 10:15 a.m., yet another bombing was attempted, at a police station in the
eastern district of New Baghdad, where officers managed to spot and stop a
Land Cruiser driver from detonating his explosives. The man set off a
grenade that wounded an officer and himself, and when he was seized, "he was
shouting, `Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said police
Sgt. Ahmed Abdel Sattar.
Ibrahim said the man carried a Syrian passport and told officers he was
Syrian. "Some countries, unfortunately, are trying to send people to conduct
attacks," the deputy interior minister said, without naming those nations.
Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling, an assistant commander of the U.S. 1st Armored
Division, which occupies Baghdad, agreed that "foreign fighters" were prime
suspects in the bombings. "I think that's a reasonable supposition," he
said. "That's something we'll look closely at in the next few days."
Nevertheless, the latest attacks illustrated the disparate nature of the
resistance -- from hit-run guerrillas, perhaps Saddam loyalists, who are
staging an average of 26 low-profile attacks on U.S. forces daily, to
bombers, perhaps Islamic extremists, staging suicide terror strikes.
The resistance is believed also to include Iraqis who simply resent the U.S.
military occupation of their country or who have grievances over what they
see as U.S. brutality against friends and neighbors.
One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah, 40 miles west of
Baghdad, where witnesses said U.S. troops opened fire on bystanders, killing
at least four Iraqi civilians, after a roadside bomb exploded as a U.S.
military convoy passed. The U.S. command did not confirm the incident or
report any U.S. casualties.
In Washington, after the Baghdad bombings and after meeting with L. Paul
Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator for Iraq, Bush said he remains "even
more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace to this
troubled land.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq,1,230069.story?co
ll=chi-news-hed
--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory after the
war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would have been like the
dinosaur in the tar pit – we would still be there, and we, not the United
Nations, would be bearing the costs of the occupation. This is a burden I am
sure the beleaguered American taxpayer would not have been happy to take
on."
– Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't Take a Hero."
.

User: "RedPill"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 06:00:30 PM
Bummer.
--redpill.
"Tom Jefferson" <tom@returndemocracy.now> wrote in message
news:3f9dae01$0$91662$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent on
death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and three
police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more than
200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


From north to south in this city of 5 million, the explosions over a
45-minute period left streetscapes of broken bodies, twisted wreckage and
Iraqis unnerved by an escalating underground war. The dead included a U.S.
soldier, eight Iraqi policemen and at least 26 Iraqi civilians.

"We feel helpless when we see this," said an Iraqi doctor.

Iraqi and U.S. authorities in Baghdad blamed the coordinated quadruple
blasts on foreign fighters intent on targeting those they accuse of
collaborating with U.S. forces. One captive would-be bomber was said to
carry a Syrian passport.

But in Washington, Pentagon officials said they believed loyalists of

ousted

President Saddam Hussein were responsible. President Bush said insurgents
had become more "desperate" because of what he said was progress in Iraq.

The tactics suggested a level of organization that U.S. officials had
doubted the resistance possessed. In past weeks, bombers have carried out
heavy suicide bombings but in single strikes.

Not only were Monday's attacks coordinated, they also involved disguise:

the

use of an Iraqi ambulance in the Red Cross attack, a police car and

uniform

in a police station explosion.

The blasts, which echoed the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters

here,

left the Red Cross and other aid agencies examining whether they should
decrease their presence in Iraq. Paris-based Medecins Sans Frontieres said
it would reduce its seven-member expatriate team in Baghdad.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said he hoped nongovernment organizations,
contractors and the United Nations would stay in Iraq despite the dangers.

"They are needed. Their work is needed. And if they are driven out, then

the

terrorists win," Powell said in Washington.

The differing theories about who was behind the bombings underscored the
confusion generated by two days of bold, stunning attacks, beginning with

a

rocket barrage on a U.S. headquarters hotel Sunday that killed a U.S.
colonel, wounded 15 other people and sent Americans scurrying to safety,
including the visiting deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.

Later Sunday, three U.S. soldiers were killed in two attacks in the

Baghdad

area.

Then, at 8:30 a.m. Monday, on a warm, clear morning beginning the Muslim
fasting month of Ramadan, the first of four thunderous explosions rocked

the

city.

A police car, somehow commandeered for a suicide mission and driven by a

man

in police uniform, blew up after entering the courtyard of the al-Baya'a
police station in southern Baghdad, said police Brig. Gen. Ahmed Ibrahim,
the deputy interior minister.

Officers said the blast killed 15 Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, and the

U.S.

military said six other Americans were wounded. American troops have been
working with Iraqi police and guarding the stations.

Just five minutes later, a second blast struck the local headquarters of

the

International Committee of the Red Cross, a small, three-story building on

a

quiet street in central Baghdad. This bomber, too, used a subterfuge -- an
Iraqi ambulance that apparently was able to approach the ICRC offices
without suspicion.

"I saw this ambulance driving up toward the Red Cross, and then suddenly

it

blew up," said cigarette vendor Ghani Khadim. The vehicle stopped 60 feet
from the front of the Red Cross building, at a protective line of
earth-filled barrels, and disintegrated as it blew a 15-foot-wide crater

in

the road.

The blast knocked down a 40-foot section of the ICRC's sandbag-backed

front

wall, demolished a dozen cars and apparently broke a water main, flooding
the streets. The building's interior was wrecked -- a scene of shattered
glass, doors blown off their hinges, toppled bookcases and collapsed
ceilings.

More than 100 staff members normally would have been inside, but starting
time had been changed to 9 a.m. because of Ramadan, and probably only
one-quarter of the normal staff was present. Red Cross headquarters in
Geneva said 12 people were killed, only two of them employees, believed to
be security guards, and the rest apparently passers-by.

The Red Cross and other aid organizations reduced their Baghdad staffs

after

the car bombing at U.N. headquarters that killed 23 people.

"Of course we don't understand why somebody would attack the Red Cross,"
said Nada Doumani, Baghdad spokeswoman for the ICRC, an organization that
has long strived for political neutrality.

Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of a private
clinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, who had been planning to open it as

a

full-fledged hospital next month. "We feel helpless when we see this," he
said of the ICRC bombing. He couldn't understand why the Red Cross was
targeted, he said, since "this only hurts guards and other Iraqis."

Twenty minutes after the ICRC attack, another car bomber detonated his
explosives-packed vehicle at a police station near a marketplace in north
Baghdad.

After another 20 minutes, the fourth suicide bomber struck in southwest
Baghdad, at the al-Khudra police station, destroying the front of the
building.

Besides the dead, at least 224 people were reported wounded in the four
attacks, including 65 policemen, Ibrahim said. The 34 dead he reported
apparently did not include the American soldier the U.S. command said was
killed at al-Baya'a, nor was it clear whether he was counting the four
suicide drivers.

At 10:15 a.m., yet another bombing was attempted, at a police station in

the

eastern district of New Baghdad, where officers managed to spot and stop a
Land Cruiser driver from detonating his explosives. The man set off a
grenade that wounded an officer and himself, and when he was seized, "he

was

shouting, `Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said police
Sgt. Ahmed Abdel Sattar.

Ibrahim said the man carried a Syrian passport and told officers he was
Syrian. "Some countries, unfortunately, are trying to send people to

conduct

attacks," the deputy interior minister said, without naming those nations.

Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling, an assistant commander of the U.S. 1st Armored
Division, which occupies Baghdad, agreed that "foreign fighters" were

prime

suspects in the bombings. "I think that's a reasonable supposition," he
said. "That's something we'll look closely at in the next few days."

Nevertheless, the latest attacks illustrated the disparate nature of the
resistance -- from hit-run guerrillas, perhaps Saddam loyalists, who are
staging an average of 26 low-profile attacks on U.S. forces daily, to
bombers, perhaps Islamic extremists, staging suicide terror strikes.

The resistance is believed also to include Iraqis who simply resent the

U.S.

military occupation of their country or who have grievances over what they
see as U.S. brutality against friends and neighbors.

One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah, 40 miles west of
Baghdad, where witnesses said U.S. troops opened fire on bystanders,

killing

at least four Iraqi civilians, after a roadside bomb exploded as a U.S.
military convoy passed. The U.S. command did not confirm the incident or
report any U.S. casualties.

In Washington, after the Baghdad bombings and after meeting with L. Paul
Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator for Iraq, Bush said he remains

"even

more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace to this
troubled land.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq,1,230069.story?co

ll=chi-news-hed


--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory after the
war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would have been like

the

dinosaur in the tar pit - we would still be there, and we, not the United
Nations, would be bearing the costs of the occupation. This is a burden I

am

sure the beleaguered American taxpayer would not have been happy to take
on."

- Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't Take a

Hero."




.
User: "Tom Jefferson"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 06:57:06 PM
"RedPill" <Redpill@takeIt.com> wrote in message
news:vprcfrtf8cep5c@corp.supernews.com...

Bummer.

It's an absolute bummer. The Bush administration had to have its war with
Iraq even though they cooked the intel to do it and ignored the pleadings of
the international community to spare Iraqis the suffering of a brutal
invasion.
--
Search in Iraq Fails to Find Nuclear Threat
No Evidence Uncovered Of Reconstituted Program
By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003
[snip]
According to records made available to The Washington Post and interviews
with arms investigators from the United States, Britain and Australia, it
did not require a comprehensive survey to find the central assertions of the
Bush administration's prewar nuclear case to be insubstantial or untrue.
Although Hussein did not relinquish his nuclear ambitions or technical
records, investigators said, it is now clear he had no active program to
build a weapon, produce its key materials or obtain the technology he needed
for either.
[cont.]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17707-2003Oct25?language=printer


--redpill.


"Tom Jefferson" <tom@returndemocracy.now> wrote in message
news:3f9dae01$0$91662$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent

on

death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and

three

police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more

than

200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


From north to south in this city of 5 million, the explosions over a
45-minute period left streetscapes of broken bodies, twisted wreckage

and

Iraqis unnerved by an escalating underground war. The dead included a

U.S.

soldier, eight Iraqi policemen and at least 26 Iraqi civilians.

"We feel helpless when we see this," said an Iraqi doctor.

Iraqi and U.S. authorities in Baghdad blamed the coordinated quadruple
blasts on foreign fighters intent on targeting those they accuse of
collaborating with U.S. forces. One captive would-be bomber was said to
carry a Syrian passport.

But in Washington, Pentagon officials said they believed loyalists of

ousted

President Saddam Hussein were responsible. President Bush said

insurgents

had become more "desperate" because of what he said was progress in

Iraq.


The tactics suggested a level of organization that U.S. officials had
doubted the resistance possessed. In past weeks, bombers have carried

out

heavy suicide bombings but in single strikes.

Not only were Monday's attacks coordinated, they also involved disguise:

the

use of an Iraqi ambulance in the Red Cross attack, a police car and

uniform

in a police station explosion.

The blasts, which echoed the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters

here,

left the Red Cross and other aid agencies examining whether they should
decrease their presence in Iraq. Paris-based Medecins Sans Frontieres

said

it would reduce its seven-member expatriate team in Baghdad.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said he hoped nongovernment

organizations,

contractors and the United Nations would stay in Iraq despite the

dangers.


"They are needed. Their work is needed. And if they are driven out, then

the

terrorists win," Powell said in Washington.

The differing theories about who was behind the bombings underscored the
confusion generated by two days of bold, stunning attacks, beginning

with

a

rocket barrage on a U.S. headquarters hotel Sunday that killed a U.S.
colonel, wounded 15 other people and sent Americans scurrying to safety,
including the visiting deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.

Later Sunday, three U.S. soldiers were killed in two attacks in the

Baghdad

area.

Then, at 8:30 a.m. Monday, on a warm, clear morning beginning the Muslim
fasting month of Ramadan, the first of four thunderous explosions rocked

the

city.

A police car, somehow commandeered for a suicide mission and driven by a

man

in police uniform, blew up after entering the courtyard of the al-Baya'a
police station in southern Baghdad, said police Brig. Gen. Ahmed

Ibrahim,

the deputy interior minister.

Officers said the blast killed 15 Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, and the

U.S.

military said six other Americans were wounded. American troops have

been

working with Iraqi police and guarding the stations.

Just five minutes later, a second blast struck the local headquarters of

the

International Committee of the Red Cross, a small, three-story building

on

a

quiet street in central Baghdad. This bomber, too, used a subterfuge --

an

Iraqi ambulance that apparently was able to approach the ICRC offices
without suspicion.

"I saw this ambulance driving up toward the Red Cross, and then suddenly

it

blew up," said cigarette vendor Ghani Khadim. The vehicle stopped 60

feet

from the front of the Red Cross building, at a protective line of
earth-filled barrels, and disintegrated as it blew a 15-foot-wide crater

in

the road.

The blast knocked down a 40-foot section of the ICRC's sandbag-backed

front

wall, demolished a dozen cars and apparently broke a water main,

flooding

the streets. The building's interior was wrecked -- a scene of shattered
glass, doors blown off their hinges, toppled bookcases and collapsed
ceilings.

More than 100 staff members normally would have been inside, but

starting

time had been changed to 9 a.m. because of Ramadan, and probably only
one-quarter of the normal staff was present. Red Cross headquarters in
Geneva said 12 people were killed, only two of them employees, believed

to

be security guards, and the rest apparently passers-by.

The Red Cross and other aid organizations reduced their Baghdad staffs

after

the car bombing at U.N. headquarters that killed 23 people.

"Of course we don't understand why somebody would attack the Red Cross,"
said Nada Doumani, Baghdad spokeswoman for the ICRC, an organization

that

has long strived for political neutrality.

Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of a private
clinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, who had been planning to open it

as

a

full-fledged hospital next month. "We feel helpless when we see this,"

he

said of the ICRC bombing. He couldn't understand why the Red Cross was
targeted, he said, since "this only hurts guards and other Iraqis."

Twenty minutes after the ICRC attack, another car bomber detonated his
explosives-packed vehicle at a police station near a marketplace in

north

Baghdad.

After another 20 minutes, the fourth suicide bomber struck in southwest
Baghdad, at the al-Khudra police station, destroying the front of the
building.

Besides the dead, at least 224 people were reported wounded in the four
attacks, including 65 policemen, Ibrahim said. The 34 dead he reported
apparently did not include the American soldier the U.S. command said

was

killed at al-Baya'a, nor was it clear whether he was counting the four
suicide drivers.

At 10:15 a.m., yet another bombing was attempted, at a police station in

the

eastern district of New Baghdad, where officers managed to spot and stop

a

Land Cruiser driver from detonating his explosives. The man set off a
grenade that wounded an officer and himself, and when he was seized, "he

was

shouting, `Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said

police

Sgt. Ahmed Abdel Sattar.

Ibrahim said the man carried a Syrian passport and told officers he was
Syrian. "Some countries, unfortunately, are trying to send people to

conduct

attacks," the deputy interior minister said, without naming those

nations.


Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling, an assistant commander of the U.S. 1st Armored
Division, which occupies Baghdad, agreed that "foreign fighters" were

prime

suspects in the bombings. "I think that's a reasonable supposition," he
said. "That's something we'll look closely at in the next few days."

Nevertheless, the latest attacks illustrated the disparate nature of the
resistance -- from hit-run guerrillas, perhaps Saddam loyalists, who are
staging an average of 26 low-profile attacks on U.S. forces daily, to
bombers, perhaps Islamic extremists, staging suicide terror strikes.

The resistance is believed also to include Iraqis who simply resent the

U.S.

military occupation of their country or who have grievances over what

they

see as U.S. brutality against friends and neighbors.

One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah, 40 miles west of
Baghdad, where witnesses said U.S. troops opened fire on bystanders,

killing

at least four Iraqi civilians, after a roadside bomb exploded as a U.S.
military convoy passed. The U.S. command did not confirm the incident or
report any U.S. casualties.

In Washington, after the Baghdad bombings and after meeting with L. Paul
Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator for Iraq, Bush said he remains

"even

more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace to this
troubled land.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq,1,230069.story?co

ll=chi-news-hed


--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory after

the

war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would have been like

the

dinosaur in the tar pit - we would still be there, and we, not the

United

Nations, would be bearing the costs of the occupation. This is a burden

I

am

sure the beleaguered American taxpayer would not have been happy to take
on."

- Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't Take a

Hero."






.
User: "RedPill"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 07:18:19 PM
well, that's bush for ya'. and his blue blood oil buddies are behind him all
the way.
---redpill.
"Tom Jefferson" <tom@returndemocracy.now> wrote in message
news:3f9dbeee$0$91655$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...

"RedPill" <Redpill@takeIt.com> wrote in message
news:vprcfrtf8cep5c@corp.supernews.com...

Bummer.


It's an absolute bummer. The Bush administration had to have its war with
Iraq even though they cooked the intel to do it and ignored the pleadings

of

the international community to spare Iraqis the suffering of a brutal
invasion.


--
Search in Iraq Fails to Find Nuclear Threat
No Evidence Uncovered Of Reconstituted Program

By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003

[snip]

According to records made available to The Washington Post and interviews
with arms investigators from the United States, Britain and Australia, it
did not require a comprehensive survey to find the central assertions of

the

Bush administration's prewar nuclear case to be insubstantial or untrue.
Although Hussein did not relinquish his nuclear ambitions or technical
records, investigators said, it is now clear he had no active program to
build a weapon, produce its key materials or obtain the technology he

needed

for either.

[cont.]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17707-2003Oct25?language=printer



--redpill.


"Tom Jefferson" <tom@returndemocracy.now> wrote in message
news:3f9dae01$0$91662$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers

bent

on

death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and

three

police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more

than

200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


From north to south in this city of 5 million, the explosions over a
45-minute period left streetscapes of broken bodies, twisted wreckage

and

Iraqis unnerved by an escalating underground war. The dead included a

U.S.

soldier, eight Iraqi policemen and at least 26 Iraqi civilians.

"We feel helpless when we see this," said an Iraqi doctor.

Iraqi and U.S. authorities in Baghdad blamed the coordinated quadruple
blasts on foreign fighters intent on targeting those they accuse of
collaborating with U.S. forces. One captive would-be bomber was said

to

carry a Syrian passport.

But in Washington, Pentagon officials said they believed loyalists of

ousted

President Saddam Hussein were responsible. President Bush said

insurgents

had become more "desperate" because of what he said was progress in

Iraq.


The tactics suggested a level of organization that U.S. officials had
doubted the resistance possessed. In past weeks, bombers have carried

out

heavy suicide bombings but in single strikes.

Not only were Monday's attacks coordinated, they also involved

disguise:

the

use of an Iraqi ambulance in the Red Cross attack, a police car and

uniform

in a police station explosion.

The blasts, which echoed the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters

here,

left the Red Cross and other aid agencies examining whether they

should

decrease their presence in Iraq. Paris-based Medecins Sans Frontieres

said

it would reduce its seven-member expatriate team in Baghdad.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said he hoped nongovernment

organizations,

contractors and the United Nations would stay in Iraq despite the

dangers.


"They are needed. Their work is needed. And if they are driven out,

then

the

terrorists win," Powell said in Washington.

The differing theories about who was behind the bombings underscored

the

confusion generated by two days of bold, stunning attacks, beginning

with

a

rocket barrage on a U.S. headquarters hotel Sunday that killed a U.S.
colonel, wounded 15 other people and sent Americans scurrying to

safety,

including the visiting deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.

Later Sunday, three U.S. soldiers were killed in two attacks in the

Baghdad

area.

Then, at 8:30 a.m. Monday, on a warm, clear morning beginning the

Muslim

fasting month of Ramadan, the first of four thunderous explosions

rocked

the

city.

A police car, somehow commandeered for a suicide mission and driven by

a

man

in police uniform, blew up after entering the courtyard of the

al-Baya'a

police station in southern Baghdad, said police Brig. Gen. Ahmed

Ibrahim,

the deputy interior minister.

Officers said the blast killed 15 Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, and the

U.S.

military said six other Americans were wounded. American troops have

been

working with Iraqi police and guarding the stations.

Just five minutes later, a second blast struck the local headquarters

of

the

International Committee of the Red Cross, a small, three-story

building

on

a

quiet street in central Baghdad. This bomber, too, used a

subterfuge --

an

Iraqi ambulance that apparently was able to approach the ICRC offices
without suspicion.

"I saw this ambulance driving up toward the Red Cross, and then

suddenly

it

blew up," said cigarette vendor Ghani Khadim. The vehicle stopped 60

feet

from the front of the Red Cross building, at a protective line of
earth-filled barrels, and disintegrated as it blew a 15-foot-wide

crater

in

the road.

The blast knocked down a 40-foot section of the ICRC's sandbag-backed

front

wall, demolished a dozen cars and apparently broke a water main,

flooding

the streets. The building's interior was wrecked -- a scene of

shattered

glass, doors blown off their hinges, toppled bookcases and collapsed
ceilings.

More than 100 staff members normally would have been inside, but

starting

time had been changed to 9 a.m. because of Ramadan, and probably only
one-quarter of the normal staff was present. Red Cross headquarters in
Geneva said 12 people were killed, only two of them employees,

believed

to

be security guards, and the rest apparently passers-by.

The Red Cross and other aid organizations reduced their Baghdad staffs

after

the car bombing at U.N. headquarters that killed 23 people.

"Of course we don't understand why somebody would attack the Red

Cross,"

said Nada Doumani, Baghdad spokeswoman for the ICRC, an organization

that

has long strived for political neutrality.

Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of a private
clinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, who had been planning to open

it

as

a

full-fledged hospital next month. "We feel helpless when we see this,"

he

said of the ICRC bombing. He couldn't understand why the Red Cross was
targeted, he said, since "this only hurts guards and other Iraqis."

Twenty minutes after the ICRC attack, another car bomber detonated his
explosives-packed vehicle at a police station near a marketplace in

north

Baghdad.

After another 20 minutes, the fourth suicide bomber struck in

southwest

Baghdad, at the al-Khudra police station, destroying the front of the
building.

Besides the dead, at least 224 people were reported wounded in the

four

attacks, including 65 policemen, Ibrahim said. The 34 dead he reported
apparently did not include the American soldier the U.S. command said

was

killed at al-Baya'a, nor was it clear whether he was counting the four
suicide drivers.

At 10:15 a.m., yet another bombing was attempted, at a police station

in

the

eastern district of New Baghdad, where officers managed to spot and

stop

a

Land Cruiser driver from detonating his explosives. The man set off a
grenade that wounded an officer and himself, and when he was seized,

"he

was

shouting, `Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said

police

Sgt. Ahmed Abdel Sattar.

Ibrahim said the man carried a Syrian passport and told officers he

was

Syrian. "Some countries, unfortunately, are trying to send people to

conduct

attacks," the deputy interior minister said, without naming those

nations.


Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling, an assistant commander of the U.S. 1st

Armored

Division, which occupies Baghdad, agreed that "foreign fighters" were

prime

suspects in the bombings. "I think that's a reasonable supposition,"

he

said. "That's something we'll look closely at in the next few days."

Nevertheless, the latest attacks illustrated the disparate nature of

the

resistance -- from hit-run guerrillas, perhaps Saddam loyalists, who

are

staging an average of 26 low-profile attacks on U.S. forces daily, to
bombers, perhaps Islamic extremists, staging suicide terror strikes.

The resistance is believed also to include Iraqis who simply resent

the

U.S.

military occupation of their country or who have grievances over what

they

see as U.S. brutality against friends and neighbors.

One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah, 40 miles west

of

Baghdad, where witnesses said U.S. troops opened fire on bystanders,

killing

at least four Iraqi civilians, after a roadside bomb exploded as a

U.S.

military convoy passed. The U.S. command did not confirm the incident

or

report any U.S. casualties.

In Washington, after the Baghdad bombings and after meeting with L.

Paul

Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator for Iraq, Bush said he remains

"even

more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace to

this

troubled land.




http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq,1,230069.story?co

ll=chi-news-hed


--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory after

the

war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would have been

like

the

dinosaur in the tar pit - we would still be there, and we, not the

United

Nations, would be bearing the costs of the occupation. This is a

burden

I

am

sure the beleaguered American taxpayer would not have been happy to

take

on."

- Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't Take a

Hero."








.


User: "torresd"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 07:35:55 PM
Sad to see the leftists cheering on the bombing of the Red Cross.
"RedPill" <Redpill@takeIt.com> wrote in message
news:vprcfrtf8cep5c@corp.supernews.com...

Bummer.


--redpill.


"Tom Jefferson" <tom@returndemocracy.now> wrote in message
news:3f9dae01$0$91662$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent

on

death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and

three

police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more

than

200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


From north to south in this city of 5 million, the explosions over a
45-minute period left streetscapes of broken bodies, twisted wreckage

and

Iraqis unnerved by an escalating underground war. The dead included a

U.S.

soldier, eight Iraqi policemen and at least 26 Iraqi civilians.

"We feel helpless when we see this," said an Iraqi doctor.

Iraqi and U.S. authorities in Baghdad blamed the coordinated quadruple
blasts on foreign fighters intent on targeting those they accuse of
collaborating with U.S. forces. One captive would-be bomber was said to
carry a Syrian passport.

But in Washington, Pentagon officials said they believed loyalists of

ousted

President Saddam Hussein were responsible. President Bush said

insurgents

had become more "desperate" because of what he said was progress in

Iraq.


The tactics suggested a level of organization that U.S. officials had
doubted the resistance possessed. In past weeks, bombers have carried

out

heavy suicide bombings but in single strikes.

Not only were Monday's attacks coordinated, they also involved disguise:

the

use of an Iraqi ambulance in the Red Cross attack, a police car and

uniform

in a police station explosion.

The blasts, which echoed the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters

here,

left the Red Cross and other aid agencies examining whether they should
decrease their presence in Iraq. Paris-based Medecins Sans Frontieres

said

it would reduce its seven-member expatriate team in Baghdad.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said he hoped nongovernment

organizations,

contractors and the United Nations would stay in Iraq despite the

dangers.


"They are needed. Their work is needed. And if they are driven out, then

the

terrorists win," Powell said in Washington.

The differing theories about who was behind the bombings underscored the
confusion generated by two days of bold, stunning attacks, beginning

with

a

rocket barrage on a U.S. headquarters hotel Sunday that killed a U.S.
colonel, wounded 15 other people and sent Americans scurrying to safety,
including the visiting deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.

Later Sunday, three U.S. soldiers were killed in two attacks in the

Baghdad

area.

Then, at 8:30 a.m. Monday, on a warm, clear morning beginning the Muslim
fasting month of Ramadan, the first of four thunderous explosions rocked

the

city.

A police car, somehow commandeered for a suicide mission and driven by a

man

in police uniform, blew up after entering the courtyard of the al-Baya'a
police station in southern Baghdad, said police Brig. Gen. Ahmed

Ibrahim,

the deputy interior minister.

Officers said the blast killed 15 Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, and the

U.S.

military said six other Americans were wounded. American troops have

been

working with Iraqi police and guarding the stations.

Just five minutes later, a second blast struck the local headquarters of

the

International Committee of the Red Cross, a small, three-story building

on

a

quiet street in central Baghdad. This bomber, too, used a subterfuge --

an

Iraqi ambulance that apparently was able to approach the ICRC offices
without suspicion.

"I saw this ambulance driving up toward the Red Cross, and then suddenly

it

blew up," said cigarette vendor Ghani Khadim. The vehicle stopped 60

feet

from the front of the Red Cross building, at a protective line of
earth-filled barrels, and disintegrated as it blew a 15-foot-wide crater

in

the road.

The blast knocked down a 40-foot section of the ICRC's sandbag-backed

front

wall, demolished a dozen cars and apparently broke a water main,

flooding

the streets. The building's interior was wrecked -- a scene of shattered
glass, doors blown off their hinges, toppled bookcases and collapsed
ceilings.

More than 100 staff members normally would have been inside, but

starting

time had been changed to 9 a.m. because of Ramadan, and probably only
one-quarter of the normal staff was present. Red Cross headquarters in
Geneva said 12 people were killed, only two of them employees, believed

to

be security guards, and the rest apparently passers-by.

The Red Cross and other aid organizations reduced their Baghdad staffs

after

the car bombing at U.N. headquarters that killed 23 people.

"Of course we don't understand why somebody would attack the Red Cross,"
said Nada Doumani, Baghdad spokeswoman for the ICRC, an organization

that

has long strived for political neutrality.

Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of a private
clinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, who had been planning to open it

as

a

full-fledged hospital next month. "We feel helpless when we see this,"

he

said of the ICRC bombing. He couldn't understand why the Red Cross was
targeted, he said, since "this only hurts guards and other Iraqis."

Twenty minutes after the ICRC attack, another car bomber detonated his
explosives-packed vehicle at a police station near a marketplace in

north

Baghdad.

After another 20 minutes, the fourth suicide bomber struck in southwest
Baghdad, at the al-Khudra police station, destroying the front of the
building.

Besides the dead, at least 224 people were reported wounded in the four
attacks, including 65 policemen, Ibrahim said. The 34 dead he reported
apparently did not include the American soldier the U.S. command said

was

killed at al-Baya'a, nor was it clear whether he was counting the four
suicide drivers.

At 10:15 a.m., yet another bombing was attempted, at a police station in

the

eastern district of New Baghdad, where officers managed to spot and stop

a

Land Cruiser driver from detonating his explosives. The man set off a
grenade that wounded an officer and himself, and when he was seized, "he

was

shouting, `Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said

police

Sgt. Ahmed Abdel Sattar.

Ibrahim said the man carried a Syrian passport and told officers he was
Syrian. "Some countries, unfortunately, are trying to send people to

conduct

attacks," the deputy interior minister said, without naming those

nations.


Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling, an assistant commander of the U.S. 1st Armored
Division, which occupies Baghdad, agreed that "foreign fighters" were

prime

suspects in the bombings. "I think that's a reasonable supposition," he
said. "That's something we'll look closely at in the next few days."

Nevertheless, the latest attacks illustrated the disparate nature of the
resistance -- from hit-run guerrillas, perhaps Saddam loyalists, who are
staging an average of 26 low-profile attacks on U.S. forces daily, to
bombers, perhaps Islamic extremists, staging suicide terror strikes.

The resistance is believed also to include Iraqis who simply resent the

U.S.

military occupation of their country or who have grievances over what

they

see as U.S. brutality against friends and neighbors.

One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah, 40 miles west of
Baghdad, where witnesses said U.S. troops opened fire on bystanders,

killing

at least four Iraqi civilians, after a roadside bomb exploded as a U.S.
military convoy passed. The U.S. command did not confirm the incident or
report any U.S. casualties.

In Washington, after the Baghdad bombings and after meeting with L. Paul
Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator for Iraq, Bush said he remains

"even

more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace to this
troubled land.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq,1,230069.story?co

ll=chi-news-hed


--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory after

the

war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would have been like

the

dinosaur in the tar pit - we would still be there, and we, not the

United

Nations, would be bearing the costs of the occupation. This is a burden

I

am

sure the beleaguered American taxpayer would not have been happy to take
on."

- Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't Take a

Hero."






.
User: "Tom Jefferson"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 10:28:20 PM
"torresd" <iloveterrorists@arafat.com> wrote in message
news:%Jjnb.196797$0v4.15264488@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Sad to see the leftists cheering on the bombing of the Red Cross.

First let's set the record straight in that you're stealing someone else's
newsgroup nic.
Next:
No one on the left is cheering on the killing in Iraq. The fact is no matter
how you rightwingers try to package it, those of you who supported the
American Shock and Awe invasion are responsible for the killing of tens of
thousands and the wounding of many more.
The savagery now going on in Iraq was spawned by Bush's invasion and you
should accept the fruits of your actions before trying to blame liberals.
--
Search in Iraq Fails to Find Nuclear Threat
No Evidence Uncovered Of Reconstituted Program
By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003
[snip]
According to records made available to The Washington Post and interviews
with arms investigators from the United States, Britain and Australia, it
did not require a comprehensive survey to find the central assertions of the
Bush administration's prewar nuclear case to be insubstantial or untrue.
Although Hussein did not relinquish his nuclear ambitions or technical
records, investigators said, it is now clear he had no active program to
build a weapon, produce its key materials or obtain the technology he needed
for either.
[cont.]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17707-2003Oct25?language=printer



"RedPill" <Redpill@takeIt.com> wrote in message
news:vprcfrtf8cep5c@corp.supernews.com...

Bummer.


--redpill.


"Tom Jefferson" <tom@returndemocracy.now> wrote in message
news:3f9dae01$0$91662$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers

bent

on

death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and

three

police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more

than

200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


From north to south in this city of 5 million, the explosions over a
45-minute period left streetscapes of broken bodies, twisted wreckage

and

Iraqis unnerved by an escalating underground war. The dead included a

U.S.

soldier, eight Iraqi policemen and at least 26 Iraqi civilians.

"We feel helpless when we see this," said an Iraqi doctor.

Iraqi and U.S. authorities in Baghdad blamed the coordinated quadruple
blasts on foreign fighters intent on targeting those they accuse of
collaborating with U.S. forces. One captive would-be bomber was said

to

carry a Syrian passport.

But in Washington, Pentagon officials said they believed loyalists of

ousted

President Saddam Hussein were responsible. President Bush said

insurgents

had become more "desperate" because of what he said was progress in

Iraq.


The tactics suggested a level of organization that U.S. officials had
doubted the resistance possessed. In past weeks, bombers have carried

out

heavy suicide bombings but in single strikes.

Not only were Monday's attacks coordinated, they also involved

disguise:

the

use of an Iraqi ambulance in the Red Cross attack, a police car and

uniform

in a police station explosion.

The blasts, which echoed the Aug. 19 bombing of the U.N. headquarters

here,

left the Red Cross and other aid agencies examining whether they

should

decrease their presence in Iraq. Paris-based Medecins Sans Frontieres

said

it would reduce its seven-member expatriate team in Baghdad.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said he hoped nongovernment

organizations,

contractors and the United Nations would stay in Iraq despite the

dangers.


"They are needed. Their work is needed. And if they are driven out,

then

the

terrorists win," Powell said in Washington.

The differing theories about who was behind the bombings underscored

the

confusion generated by two days of bold, stunning attacks, beginning

with

a

rocket barrage on a U.S. headquarters hotel Sunday that killed a U.S.
colonel, wounded 15 other people and sent Americans scurrying to

safety,

including the visiting deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz.

Later Sunday, three U.S. soldiers were killed in two attacks in the

Baghdad

area.

Then, at 8:30 a.m. Monday, on a warm, clear morning beginning the

Muslim

fasting month of Ramadan, the first of four thunderous explosions

rocked

the

city.

A police car, somehow commandeered for a suicide mission and driven by

a

man

in police uniform, blew up after entering the courtyard of the

al-Baya'a

police station in southern Baghdad, said police Brig. Gen. Ahmed

Ibrahim,

the deputy interior minister.

Officers said the blast killed 15 Iraqis and one U.S. soldier, and the

U.S.

military said six other Americans were wounded. American troops have

been

working with Iraqi police and guarding the stations.

Just five minutes later, a second blast struck the local headquarters

of

the

International Committee of the Red Cross, a small, three-story

building

on

a

quiet street in central Baghdad. This bomber, too, used a

subterfuge --

an

Iraqi ambulance that apparently was able to approach the ICRC offices
without suspicion.

"I saw this ambulance driving up toward the Red Cross, and then

suddenly

it

blew up," said cigarette vendor Ghani Khadim. The vehicle stopped 60

feet

from the front of the Red Cross building, at a protective line of
earth-filled barrels, and disintegrated as it blew a 15-foot-wide

crater

in

the road.

The blast knocked down a 40-foot section of the ICRC's sandbag-backed

front

wall, demolished a dozen cars and apparently broke a water main,

flooding

the streets. The building's interior was wrecked -- a scene of

shattered

glass, doors blown off their hinges, toppled bookcases and collapsed
ceilings.

More than 100 staff members normally would have been inside, but

starting

time had been changed to 9 a.m. because of Ramadan, and probably only
one-quarter of the normal staff was present. Red Cross headquarters in
Geneva said 12 people were killed, only two of them employees,

believed

to

be security guards, and the rest apparently passers-by.

The Red Cross and other aid organizations reduced their Baghdad staffs

after

the car bombing at U.N. headquarters that killed 23 people.

"Of course we don't understand why somebody would attack the Red

Cross,"

said Nada Doumani, Baghdad spokeswoman for the ICRC, an organization

that

has long strived for political neutrality.

Two buildings away, the explosion devastated the interior of a private
clinic operated by Dr. Jamal F. Massa, who had been planning to open

it

as

a

full-fledged hospital next month. "We feel helpless when we see this,"

he

said of the ICRC bombing. He couldn't understand why the Red Cross was
targeted, he said, since "this only hurts guards and other Iraqis."

Twenty minutes after the ICRC attack, another car bomber detonated his
explosives-packed vehicle at a police station near a marketplace in

north

Baghdad.

After another 20 minutes, the fourth suicide bomber struck in

southwest

Baghdad, at the al-Khudra police station, destroying the front of the
building.

Besides the dead, at least 224 people were reported wounded in the

four

attacks, including 65 policemen, Ibrahim said. The 34 dead he reported
apparently did not include the American soldier the U.S. command said

was

killed at al-Baya'a, nor was it clear whether he was counting the four
suicide drivers.

At 10:15 a.m., yet another bombing was attempted, at a police station

in

the

eastern district of New Baghdad, where officers managed to spot and

stop

a

Land Cruiser driver from detonating his explosives. The man set off a
grenade that wounded an officer and himself, and when he was seized,

"he

was

shouting, `Death to the Iraqi police! You're collaborators!'" said

police

Sgt. Ahmed Abdel Sattar.

Ibrahim said the man carried a Syrian passport and told officers he

was

Syrian. "Some countries, unfortunately, are trying to send people to

conduct

attacks," the deputy interior minister said, without naming those

nations.


Brig. Gen. Mark Hertling, an assistant commander of the U.S. 1st

Armored

Division, which occupies Baghdad, agreed that "foreign fighters" were

prime

suspects in the bombings. "I think that's a reasonable supposition,"

he

said. "That's something we'll look closely at in the next few days."

Nevertheless, the latest attacks illustrated the disparate nature of

the

resistance -- from hit-run guerrillas, perhaps Saddam loyalists, who

are

staging an average of 26 low-profile attacks on U.S. forces daily, to
bombers, perhaps Islamic extremists, staging suicide terror strikes.

The resistance is believed also to include Iraqis who simply resent

the

U.S.

military occupation of their country or who have grievances over what

they

see as U.S. brutality against friends and neighbors.

One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah, 40 miles west

of

Baghdad, where witnesses said U.S. troops opened fire on bystanders,

killing

at least four Iraqi civilians, after a roadside bomb exploded as a

U.S.

military convoy passed. The U.S. command did not confirm the incident

or

report any U.S. casualties.

In Washington, after the Baghdad bombings and after meeting with L.

Paul

Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator for Iraq, Bush said he remains

"even

more determined to work with the Iraqi people" to restore peace to

this

troubled land.




http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq,1,230069.story?co

ll=chi-news-hed


--
"From the brief time that we did spend occupying Iraqi territory after

the

war, I am certain that had we taken all of Iraq, we would have been

like

the

dinosaur in the tar pit - we would still be there, and we, not the

United

Nations, would be bearing the costs of the occupation. This is a

burden

I

am

sure the beleaguered American taxpayer would not have been happy to

take

on."

- Norman Schwarzkopf, from his 1993 autobiography, "It Doesn't Take a

Hero."








.

User: "Charles Aulds"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 08:05:48 PM
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:35:55 GMT, "torresd"
<iloveterrorists@arafat.com> wrote:

Sad to see the leftists cheering on the bombing of the Red Cross.

Equally sad to see the cheerleaders surrounding this crumbling
Presidential Administration continue their cheerleading efforts even
as our countrymen perish for ... what?
___
NPR's Deborah Amos reported [last] Wednesday morning that Donald
Evans, Bush's secretary of commerce, came to Baghdad recently and
admonished the American reporters there to start paying more attention
to the good news about the occupation. "The American people have a far
different view from the reality that we all know is here," Amos quoted
Evans as saying, "You should report what we're really seeing."
How long had Evans been in Iraq? About 24 hours. Where did he sleep
that night? In Kuwait.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2090250/
.



User: "Werner Hetzner"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 09:04:20 PM
For me the shock and awe is deafening silence from the 'progressives'
over the deliberate killing of civilians - especially Red Cross people,
and after the UN civilian killings. If US forces had accidentally killed
just one clamor and outrage would rule your circles.
Where is the demand internationally acceptable behavior and proper rules
of engagement?
Tom Jefferson wrote:

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent on
death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and three
police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more than
200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S. occupation.

...

.
User: "Tom Jefferson"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 10:25:04 PM
"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:3F9DCEBF.5040504@mac.com...

For me the shock and awe is deafening silence from the 'progressives'
over the deliberate killing of civilians - especially Red Cross people,
and after the UN civilian killings. If US forces had accidentally killed
just one clamor and outrage would rule your circles.

American troops are well known in Iraq for their vicious behavior after
being attacked, it is common practice to begin firing in a 360 degree circle
until they have cleared the area or retreated.
-------------------------------------
Oct. 27, 2003 (Jerusalem Post)
Coordinated bombings in Baghdad
kill dozens; Red Cross targeted
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
BAGHDAD, Iraq
One such incident may have occurred Monday in Fallujah,
40 miles west of Baghdad, where witnesses said US troops
opened fire on bystanders, killing at least four Iraqi civilians,
after a roadside bomb exploded as a US military convoy
passed. The US command did not confirm the incident
or report any US casualties.
---------------------------------------
http://www.costofwar.com/
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx
-----------------------------------------


Where is the demand internationally acceptable behavior and proper rules
of engagement?

No one on the left is cheering on the killing in Iraq. The fact is no matter
how you rightwingers try to package it, those of you who supported the
American Shock and Awe invasion are responsible for the killing of tens of
thousands and the wounding of many more.
The savagery now going on in Iraq was spawned by Bush's invasion and you
should accept the fruits of your actions before trying to blame liberals.
--
Search in Iraq Fails to Find Nuclear Threat
No Evidence Uncovered Of Reconstituted Program
By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 26, 2003
[snip]
According to records made available to The Washington Post and interviews
with arms investigators from the United States, Britain and Australia, it
did not require a comprehensive survey to find the central assertions of the
Bush administration's prewar nuclear case to be insubstantial or untrue.
Although Hussein did not relinquish his nuclear ambitions or technical
records, investigators said, it is now clear he had no active program to
build a weapon, produce its key materials or obtain the technology he needed
for either.
[cont.]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17707-2003Oct25?language=printer



Tom Jefferson wrote:

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent

on

death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and three
police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more than
200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


...


.
User: "Werner Hetzner"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 28 Oct 2003 07:43:08 PM
Marinus van der Lubbe wrote:

...

And what you did not do is explain the deafening silence.



What deafening silence? We have been anything but silent over this war, our
troops, the Iraqi civilians. It's sad that these oil stealing fat cats can
use organizations like the Red Cross or even the US Army as their cat's paw.


So the dead civilians were killed by oil stealing fat cats. Interesting
take. But acceptable only to the delusional.

It would be cheaper in lives and dollars to let the Iraq rebuild their own
country.


It's time to consider an exit strategy. The news indicates this is the
hope in the beltway as well. The problem is the opposing factions who
will kill eachother to control that valuable oil. There is also the
problem of a returning Saddam. Anyway, the same should happen in Serbia.
We are still there - and lots of other places.




.
User: "1066"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 01 Nov 2003 12:59:16 PM
Werner Hetzner <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message news:<3F9F0D37.9070305@mac.com>...

Marinus van der Lubbe wrote:

...

And what you did not do is explain the deafening silence.



What deafening silence? We have been anything but silent over this war, our
troops, the Iraqi civilians. It's sad that these oil stealing fat cats can
use organizations like the Red Cross or even the US Army as their cat's paw.



So the dead civilians were killed by oil stealing fat cats. Interesting
take. But acceptable only to the delusional.

The main invasion phase of the Iraq war (prior to May 1, 2003), killed
several thousand Iraqi civillians.
After May 1, during the occupation phase of this continuing war, U.S.
troops have brutalized and/or murdered hundreds of innocent Iraqi
civillians. U.S. troops have murdered women and children at
checkpoints, on the streets, and even inside their homes (during
raids).
U.S. troops have also murdered scores of Iraqi policemen, i.e.
policemen who were just doing their job. And then you wonder why
there's so much resistance to the Merkin occupiers.
It is actually you yourself who is delusional.


It would be cheaper in lives and dollars to let the Iraq rebuild their own
country.



It's time to consider an exit strategy. The news indicates this is the
hope in the beltway as well. The problem is the opposing factions who
will kill eachother to control that valuable oil.

Actually, the problem is that you Jews do not want to let go of that
valuable oil.

There is also the
problem of a returning Saddam. Anyway, the same should happen in Serbia.
We are still there - and lots of other places.

It is time to put your Zionist masters, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, on
trial for murder.





.



User: "Werner Hetzner"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 30 Oct 2003 09:53:37 PM
David Raleigh Arnold wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:04:20 +0000, Werner Hetzner wrote:



For me the shock and awe is deafening silence from the 'progressives'
over the deliberate killing of civilians - especially Red Cross people,
and after the UN civilian killings. If US forces had accidentally killed
just one clamor and outrage would rule your circles.

Where is the demand internationally acceptable behavior and proper rules
of engagement?



So you want to stay in Iraq until our enemy in Saudi Arabia decides to
adhere to the rules of engagement? Idiot. daveA

You must not be smart enough to read. Or you are so brilliant as to see
things that are not written and not there.




.

User: "torresd"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 27 Oct 2003 11:18:35 PM
The leftists don't give a damn about civilian casualties. They just care
about attacking Bush.
"Werner Hetzner" <whetzner@mac.com> wrote in message
news:3F9DCEBF.5040504@mac.com...

For me the shock and awe is deafening silence from the 'progressives'
over the deliberate killing of civilians - especially Red Cross people,
and after the UN civilian killings. If US forces had accidentally killed
just one clamor and outrage would rule your circles.

Where is the demand internationally acceptable behavior and proper rules
of engagement?


Tom Jefferson wrote:

Wave of Bombings Kills Dozens in Baghdad

By CHARLES J. HANLEY
AP Special Correspondent
Published October 27, 2003, 5:01 PM CST

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Striking in rapid succession, suicide car bombers bent

on

death for "collaborators" devastated the Red Cross headquarters and three
police stations Monday, killing three dozen people and wounding more than
200 in the bloodiest day in Baghdad since the start of the U.S.

occupation.


...


.
User: "Clough"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 28 Oct 2003 12:31:13 AM
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:18:35 GMT, "torresd"
<iloveterrorists@arafat.com> wrote:

The leftists don't give a damn about civilian casualties. They just care
about attacking Bush.

It was the neocons who started the killing. It was the neocons retard
in chief who said "Bring 'em on". The neocons opened this can of
worms. It is the neocons who are responsible for what is happening.
Clough
.
User: "Bryan"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 28 Oct 2003 11:50:41 PM
Clough wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:44 GMT, "torresd"
<iloveterrorists@arafat.com> wrote:



Oh, you didn't hear about Saddam's wars and torture chambers?



Saddam wasn't at war.

His torture chambers were not the reason the USA went to war. The war
was about non-existent WMD's and was based on lies told by the
neocons.


So help me understand your dillusions. Was it the "neocons" that lied,
or was it the President? I get confused trying to keep up with Liberal,
baseless rhetoric. Please clarrify.

Do you think the US should go invading very country with a bad civil
rights record?


Only this that pose a threat to the U.S. That would be any nation.

Clough


.
User: "Thom"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 29 Oct 2003 07:27:17 PM
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:41 GMT, Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote:



Clough wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:44 GMT, "torresd"
<iloveterrorists@arafat.com> wrote:



Oh, you didn't hear about Saddam's wars and torture chambers?



Saddam wasn't at war.

His torture chambers were not the reason the USA went to war. The war
was about non-existent WMD's and was based on lies told by the
neocons.


So help me understand your dillusions. Was it the "neocons" that lied,
or was it the President? I get confused trying to keep up with Liberal,
baseless rhetoric. Please clarrify.

How about the fact the neo-cons went to Texas before the election and
trained a chimp named GW Bush to be president. After a crooked
election in Florida and two other states, the College met and
appointed Bush our Fuhrur and the neo-con plans to invade Iraq were
dusted off but they were distracted by 911 and Afghanistan.
When you lie for someone else you are still a liar.


Do you think the US should go invading very country with a bad civil
rights record?


Only this that pose a threat to the U.S. That would be any nation.

Any nation? I hear that Ireland is full of Kennedy's, a definate
threat, lets invade!!!
Thom


Clough



.
User: "Bryan"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 29 Oct 2003 10:48:00 PM
Thom wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:41 GMT, Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote:



Clough wrote:



On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:44 GMT, "torresd"
<iloveterrorists@arafat.com> wrote:





Oh, you didn't hear about Saddam's wars and torture chambers?




Saddam wasn't at war.

His torture chambers were not the reason the USA went to war. The war
was about non-existent WMD's and was based on lies told by the
neocons.




So help me understand your dillusions. Was it the "neocons" that lied,
or was it the President? I get confused trying to keep up with Liberal,
baseless rhetoric. Please clarrify.



How about the fact the neo-cons went to Texas before the election and
trained a chimp named GW Bush to be president. After a crooked
election in Florida and two other states, the College met and
appointed Bush our Fuhrur and the neo-con plans to invade Iraq were
dusted off but they were distracted by 911 and Afghanistan.


I try, but sometimes I fail to remember to not slam or deal in insults.
But I think the insults here are probably due to our education system,
because.... they have certainly failed you!
You may be living justification for education vouchers. Ask a Librarian
to show you a copy of the US Constitution document, then read it.

When you lie for someone else you are still a liar.


Do you think the US should go invading very country with a bad civil
rights record?




Only this that pose a threat to the U.S. That would be any nation.



Any nation? I hear that Ireland is full of Kennedy's, a definate
threat, lets invade!!!

Thom


Clough







.


User: "Clough"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 29 Oct 2003 11:03:35 AM
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:41 GMT, Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote:

So help me understand your dillusions. Was it the "neocons" that lied,
or was it the President? I get confused trying to keep up with Liberal,
baseless rhetoric. Please clarrify.

I know you are confused and I don't think there is much hope of you
ever understanding anything, but here goes:
Neocons are liars. Bush is a liar.

Do you think the US should go invading very country with a bad civil
rights record?


Only this that pose a threat to the U.S. That would be any nation.

What on Earth does the above mean? You certainly do make it clear that
you are confused.
Clough
.
User: "Bryan"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 29 Oct 2003 07:53:47 PM
Clough wrote:

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:50:41 GMT, Bryan <Bryan@news.net> wrote:



So help me understand your dillusions. Was it the "neocons" that lied,
or was it the President? I get confused trying to keep up with Liberal,
baseless rhetoric. Please clarrify.



I know you are confused and I don't think there is much hope of you
ever understanding anything, but here goes:

Neocons are liars. Bush is a liar.


And that would be your perl of wisdom? "Neocons are liars. Bush is a
liar.". Well, at least you did clarrify how truly ignorant you are.



Do you think the US should go invading very country with a bad civil
rights record?




Only this that pose a threat to the U.S. That would be any nation.



What on Earth does the above mean? You certainly do make it clear that
you are confused.

Clough


.
User: "dapra"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 30 Oct 2003 04:14:34 PM
Bryan wrote:


And that would be your perl of wisdom? "Neocons are liars. Bush is a
liar.". Well, at least you did clarrify how truly ignorant you are.

The noecons believe in the "noble lies". Of course how noble the lies
are is in the eye of the beholder. What clear is that they practice what
the believe in. They DO lie.
You may want to read this article. It deals with the views of their
apostle Leo Strauss.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-3-77-1542.jsp
"....Leo Strauss repeatedly defends the political realism of
Thrasymachus and Machiavelli (see, for example, his Natural Right and
History, p. 106). This view of the world is clearly manifest in the
foreign policy of the current administration in the United States.
A second fundamental belief of Strauss’s ancients has to do with their
insistence on the need for secrecy and the necessity of lies. In his
book Persecution and the Art of Writing, Strauss outlines why secrecy is
necessary. He argues that the wise must conceal their views for two
reasons – to spare the people’s feelings and to protect the elite from
possible reprisals.
The people will not be happy to learn that there is only one natural
right – the right of the superior to rule over the inferior, the master
over the slave, the husband over the wife, and the wise few over the
vulgar many. In On Tyranny, Strauss refers to this natural right as the
“tyrannical teaching” of his beloved ancients. It is tyrannical in the
classic sense of rule above rule or in the absence of law (p. 70).
Now, the ancients were determined to keep this tyrannical teaching
secret because the people are not likely to tolerate the fact that they
are intended for subordination; indeed, they may very well turn their
resentment against the superior few. Lies are thus necessary to protect
the superior few from the persecution of the vulgar many....."
.
User: "Bryan"

Title: Re: Shock and Awe Iraqi style. 30 Oct 2003 11:24:13 PM
dapra wrote:



Bryan wrote:


And that would be your perl of wisdom? "Neocons are liars. Bush is
a liar.". Well, at least you did clarrify how truly ignorant you are.


The noecons believe in the "noble lies". Of course how noble the lies
are is in the eye of the beholder. What clear is that they practice
what the believe in. They DO lie.

You just don't get it, do you. Unlike how Liberals get their opnions,
Noboy tells intelligent people what to think. That is exactly what not
being a Liberal is all about... having an open mind, tolerant enough of
all opinions, then judging for his/herself.
What you try to isolate from works of literature remains as just
that.... yet another perspective. So okay - have fun with it.



You may want to read this article. It deals with the views of their