| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
11 Jan 2004 12:29:10 PM |
| Object: |
SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to entrust our children's fate
to the hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
.
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| User: "Clough" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
11 Jan 2004 02:21:23 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:29:10 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
Clough
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
11 Jan 2004 04:23:25 PM |
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Clough wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:29:10 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to entrust our children's fate
to the hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Clough" |
|
| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 01:20:37 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Clough
.
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| User: "DDB" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 09:17:07 AM |
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"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the UN
mandate.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
Clough
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| User: "Tom Morrison" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 10:24:19 AM |
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"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:muKdnXM50LXnJ5_dRVn-jg@comcast.com...
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war
over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the
UN
mandate.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and
will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
Explain how it "PROVES" your "few things".
Clough
.
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| User: "DDB" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 02:17:25 PM |
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"Tom Morrison" <tommorrison@aka-group.com> wrote in message
news:TSzMb.73058$ts4.28163@pd7tw3no...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:muKdnXM50LXnJ5_dRVn-jg@comcast.com...
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war
over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find
these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the
UN
mandate.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as
old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and
will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
Explain how it "PROVES" your "few things".
I think they speak for themselves if you don't then make your point!
Clough
.
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| User: "Tom Morrison" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 03:52:44 PM |
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"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:9dydnXBuTqhAnZ7dRVn-ug@comcast.com...
"Tom Morrison" <tommorrison@aka-group.com> wrote in message
news:TSzMb.73058$ts4.28163@pd7tw3no...
"DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net> wrote in message
news:muKdnXM50LXnJ5_dRVn-jg@comcast.com...
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war
over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the
weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find
these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all
the
UN
mandate.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as
old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity
and
will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
Explain how it "PROVES" your "few things".
I think they speak for themselves if you don't then make your point!
OK lozer, here goes:
Your 1st ASSertion - 1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they
couldn't find these.
My response - The weapons inspectors purpose was not to find a few dozen
antique mortor rounds that that would be better described as toxic waste as
apposed to ordinance let alone WMD.
Your 2nd ASSertion - 2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which
was after all the UN mandate.
My response - What WMD? A few dozen rotting shells? They were probably
dumped there and forgotten. The only danger they would probably have posed
was to anyone who happened apon them. Did you not see the pictures of them?
They were GARBAGE NOT ORDINANCE. They were not significant, otherwise the
Bush Admin would be saying, "We told you so".
Your 3rd ASSertion - 3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of
these weapons as old Europe and Democrats claimed.
My response - Got names of these "Old Europeans", these "Democrats. Come on,
give us some verified quotes to back up your claim.
Your 4th ASSertion - 4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the
intellectual capacity and will N ever admit that WMD's had been found no
matter and in what qauntities!
My response - Give us some impiracal evidence regarding their lack of
intelect. Yust saying a HUGE group of people are dumb is STUPID! It says
more about YOUR LACK OF INTELECT than anything else. The second part of your
"thing" is purely speculation on your part, and from my impression of you
thus far, it holds no weight whatsover.
You're all about BIG TALK, with NO THOUGHT. If you make an assertion, you
have to be able to back it up.
If you're a university grad, I suggest you sue them for your time and
tuition. They have failed to educate you. You are an intelectual light
weight!
Perhaps your time would be better spent ditch digging.
Clough
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 05:07:03 PM |
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Tom Morrison wrote:
If you're a university grad, I suggest you sue them for your time and
tuition. They have failed to educate you. You are an intelectual light
weight!
Weeeeell, lets see now, I retired from teaching at a
major university right after I got my tenure because my
profitable consulting practice kept me too busy. A
little difficult to attend a business meeting in
Santiago or Caracas on Monday, and teach a two o'clock
class on Tuesday. The jealousy of the Department head
made it a little uncomfortable as well.
Perhaps your time would be better spent ditch digging.
Oh, I've done some of that on my farm in Maine.
Did pretty good with the backhoe <G>
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to entrust our children's fate
to the hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
.
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| User: "Tom Morrison" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 05:30:41 PM |
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Yo Red,
My post was in response to DDB's baseless ASSertions. If there is no need to
back up ones ASSertions, he could just as well add: 5. Sadam is the
reincarnation of Napoleon and therefore the nuking of Paris is justified!
My point was, the existence of those old unserviceable rounds proves none of
his assertions. I aimed no criticism at you.
That said, If these are "the smoking gun", why no press release from the
Bush Admin saying "We told you so"?
IMO they are not a significant find.
O'Neill says it was never about WMD, it was about regime change. Maybe he
speaks the truth. Maybe he doesn't.
Haven't heard much of a rebuttal from the White House. Why is that I wonder?
As a former soldier, I don't believe in pacifism. As a life long cynic, I
don't believe any assertion that isn't backed up with SOLID evidence and
reason.
Regards
<red_len@suntimesmail.com> wrote in message
news:4003277D.AD185BEB@suntimesmail.com...
Tom Morrison wrote:
If you're a university grad, I suggest you sue them for your time and
tuition. They have failed to educate you. You are an intelectual light
weight!
Weeeeell, lets see now, I retired from teaching at a
major university right after I got my tenure because my
profitable consulting practice kept me too busy. A
little difficult to attend a business meeting in
Santiago or Caracas on Monday, and teach a two o'clock
class on Tuesday. The jealousy of the Department head
made it a little uncomfortable as well.
Perhaps your time would be better spent ditch digging.
Oh, I've done some of that on my farm in Maine.
Did pretty good with the backhoe <G>
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to entrust our children's fate
to the hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
.
|
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 12:28:11 PM |
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DDB wrote:
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Clough thinks that everybody is as stupid as he.
Nowhere, in the article that I posted was there any
claim about those weapons except that they appeared to
be gas shells.
Yes he is stupider than a fence post and worse with
every post he makes.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the UN
mandate.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and will
to ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
5. Old Europe, the Democratic party, and the neocoms,
are trying to rush the issue and not allow time to
actually cover the ground thoroughly, lest it all
splash smelly mud in their faces
Clough clings to the Communist mantra "the ends justify
the means", that is exactly the rationalization that
neo-communists and left-wing democrats, use to defend
their alliances with reactionary Islamic radicals and
fascist regimes. But after all, using good intentions
to justify bad deeds is the first requirement of a
utopian bad faith.
--
As Orwell pointed out long ago, pacifism in the face of
armed evil is equivalent to a blind worship of force.
It would be disastrous to entrust our children's fate
to the hands of these sad and complicitous pacifists.
.
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| User: "George Leroy Tyrebiter Jr." |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 01:49:42 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:28:11 -0500, wrote:
Yes he is stupider than a fence post and worse with
every post he makes.
Wouldn't that point have been better made with "dumber?"
.
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| User: "George Leroy Tyrebiter Jr." |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 09:55:11 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:17:07 -0500, "DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net>
wrote:
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
Why do you think old rotting shells which are leaking are weapons?
They appear to be more in the category of hazardous waste, with no
military utility.
That they were leaking suggests that the batch was defective and taht
they were buried out of a concern for the safety of the Iraqi troops
stationed at that location.
In addition, they are not weapons of mass destruction. Mustard gas to
be militarily useful requires thousands of shells. The expected kill
rate is one dead soldier per million lethal doses deployed.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the UN
mandate.
That's false. He obviously not only intended to rid himself of WMD he
did exactly that. That a few old weapons were buried doesn't refute
that. A few mustard gas shells, some leaking, from way back, are not a
WMD. A small cluster bomb would be vastly more lethal.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
"These " weapons are harmless. They were buried and long forgotten,
leaking, old, few in number, of no military utility.
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
You find a WMD, and then we can discuss it.
The M stands for mass. A small number of old mustard gas shells, some
leaking, are useless, and would not be expected to kill masses of
people.
They would be expected to be ignored as useless for anything.
Mustard gas shells must be launched massively to be effective, because
the wind disperses the stuff, and you need a better air concentration
than that would permit from just a few.
Again, the expected kill of one requires roughly one million lethal
doses deployed.
And if they worry you go to France and start gathering them up. They
find about twenty tons of these old weapons per year left over from as
long ago as WWI.
It's a trivial matter except for the immediate hazard of a child
digging one up or something like that.
Clough
.
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| User: "DDB" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 02:15:42 PM |
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"George Leroy Tyrebiter Jr." <gltjr@cmhs.edu> wrote in message
news:39g50099qleha9urp0njdkvhmrbk3gqt0v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:17:07 -0500, "DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net>
wrote:
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war
over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
Why do you think old rotting shells which are leaking are weapons?
What were they when they put them into the ground and why weren't they found
until now?
They appear to be more in the category of hazardous waste, with no
military utility.
Now but what were they when they put them there in the first place.
That they were leaking suggests that the batch was defective and taht
they were buried out of a concern for the safety of the Iraqi troops
stationed at that location.
In addition, they are not weapons of mass destruction. Mustard gas to
be militarily useful requires thousands of shells. The expected kill
rate is one dead soldier per million lethal doses deployed.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the
UN
mandate.
That's false. He obviously not only intended to rid himself of WMD he
did exactly that. That a few old weapons were buried doesn't refute
that. A few mustard gas shells, some leaking, from way back, are not a
WMD. A small cluster bomb would be vastly more lethal.
The why didn't he list them on his declaration, if he had intended to bury
them as a method of getting rid of them he woul dhave listed them in hte
declaration. No he was attempting to hide them for future use bu they went
bad first!
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as
old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
"These " weapons are harmless. They were buried and long forgotten,
leaking, old, few in number, of no military utility.
Sure they were I can see you building to your excuse that proves my point
below!
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and
will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
And there it is, 50 mortars had tehy been functional would have been enopugh
to take out a small village. The art of chemical warfare is t use the wind
to your advantage to cover more area.
You find a WMD, and then we can discuss it.
The M stands for mass. A small number of old mustard gas shells, some
leaking, are useless, and would not be expected to kill masses of
people.
They would be expected to be ignored as useless for anything.
Mustard gas shells must be launched massively to be effective, because
the wind disperses the stuff, and you need a better air concentration
than that would permit from just a few.
Again, the expected kill of one requires roughly one million lethal
doses deployed.
And if they worry you go to France and start gathering them up. They
find about twenty tons of these old weapons per year left over from as
long ago as WWI.
It's a trivial matter except for the immediate hazard of a child
digging one up or something like that.
Clough
.
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| User: "George Leroy Tyrebiter Jr." |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 03:33:45 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:15:42 -0500, "DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net>
wrote:
"George Leroy Tyrebiter Jr." <gltjr@cmhs.edu> wrote in message
news:39g50099qleha9urp0njdkvhmrbk3gqt0v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:17:07 -0500, "DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net>
wrote:
"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:4vi40092t11l2k5a4ig5hd8g3d6ckch13a@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:23:25 -0500, wrote:
U.S.: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ
Danish troops have found suspicious mortar shells in
southern Iraq that
officials believe contain blister agents, the United
States and Denmark
announced Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/10/sprj.irq.chemicals/index.html
An ancient cache of a few shells buried after the Iraq - Iran war
over
a decade ago.
The neocons are getting desperate.
And Clough gets stupider with every post
I would say that finding a few ancient, dusty shells buried long ago
after a long gone conflict and claiming they are proof of the weapons
of mass destruction that a whole war was launched over is the act of
stupidity.
Perhaps but it does prove a few things:
1. Weapons inspections were a total failure e.g. they couldn't find these
weapons in the prior 11 years.
Why do you think old rotting shells which are leaking are weapons?
What were they when they put them into the ground and why weren't they found
until now?
Probably a defective batch putting the soldiers stationed near them at
risk beacuse of the leaks. So they buried them. It happens, defects in
a batch of stuff.
Soldiers bury this stuff for various reasons. A fellow in France has
posted that each year they dig up tons of such stuff from as far back
as WWI and there are various reasons for why some were buried.
Burying mustard gas shells is apparently not unprecedented, and has
been done in the past, based in his reports of what happens in France.
They appear to be more in the category of hazardous waste, with no
military utility.
Now but what were they when they put them there in the first place.
THe fellow from France says that many from eighty years ago have no
leaks.
We don't know why they buried them.
A friend of mine in the US Army in Germany said to me years ago that
they buried radio equipment because they had more of it than they
should have had from accounting records, and to make the records
correct they buried the stuff. I also recall a report also about
Germany that US soldiers threw military equipment into the Rhine river
for that reason.
Millions of dollars of the stuff.
I have not been in the military, but apparently their methods of
accounting are different from those I am used to.
I do know that the US military is now only a trillion dollars short of
being able to account for their spending, and that until recently they
were three trillion dollars off. Progress.
I have found old shells which look a lot like those in the photos
here. As a child I used to play in the woods near a huge army post and
I often found old shells and bombs. We would drag them to this cliff
and throw them off hoping that would make them explode.
None ever did.
We found a big block of TNT once, and used it as chalk to make
four-square marks. I had borrowed my dad's coat, and it was in the
pocket. He came home found it turned white and put it in the sink
under water. He was in the army in WWII and Korea and said old TNT
like that can go off at any time.
But I recall that one of our friends had a hook instead of one hand,
and I sometimes wondered if it was because he found one of those very
common lost things.
I always felt embarrassed to ask him what happened.
That they were leaking suggests that the batch was defective and taht
they were buried out of a concern for the safety of the Iraqi troops
stationed at that location.
In addition, they are not weapons of mass destruction. Mustard gas to
be militarily useful requires thousands of shells. The expected kill
rate is one dead soldier per million lethal doses deployed.
2. Saddam never intended to rid himself of WMD's which was after all the
UN
mandate.
That's false. He obviously not only intended to rid himself of WMD he
did exactly that. That a few old weapons were buried doesn't refute
that. A few mustard gas shells, some leaking, from way back, are not a
WMD. A small cluster bomb would be vastly more lethal.
The why didn't he list them on his declaration, if he had intended to bury
them as a method of getting rid of them he woul dhave listed them in hte
declaration. No he was attempting to hide them for future use bu they went
bad first!
Why can't the US military account for a trillion, with a T, of the
stuff they have bought/
The idea he buried a few shells to save them is nuts. Mustard gas
isn't that useful in this quantity, and it's easier to just shoot
people at this scale.
3. Clinton's last bombing campaign didn't rid Iraq of these weapons as
old
Europe and Democrats claimed.
"These " weapons are harmless. They were buried and long forgotten,
leaking, old, few in number, of no military utility.
Sure they were I can see you building to your excuse that proves my point
below!
4. Old Europe and the Democrat party lack the intellectual capacity and
will
ever admit that WMD's had been found no matter and in what qauntities!
And there it is, 50 mortars had tehy been functional would have been enopugh
to take out a small village. The art of chemical warfare is t use the wind
to your advantage to cover more area.
You find a WMD, and then we can discuss it.
The M stands for mass. A small number of old mustard gas shells, some
leaking, are useless, and would not be expected to kill masses of
people.
They would be expected to be ignored as useless for anything.
Mustard gas shells must be launched massively to be effective, because
the wind disperses the stuff, and you need a better air concentration
than that would permit from just a few.
Again, the expected kill of one requires roughly one million lethal
doses deployed.
And if they worry you go to France and start gathering them up. They
find about twenty tons of these old weapons per year left over from as
long ago as WWI.
It's a trivial matter except for the immediate hazard of a child
digging one up or something like that.
Clough
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| User: "Clough" |
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| Title: Re: SUSPECTED CHEMICAL FIND IN IRAQ |
12 Jan 2004 04:14:08 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:15:42 -0500, "DDB" <IHatNoOne@Fakecomcast.net>
wrote:
Why do you think old rotting shells which are leaking are weapons?
What were they when they put them into the ground and why weren't they found
until now?
They were a few old mortar shells, probably buried by some platoon on
the Iraq - Iran border during the Iraq - Iran war of the 1980's
They appear to be more in the category of hazardous waste, with no
military utility.
Now but what were they when they put them there in the first place.
They were mortar shells used by Americas ally, Saddam Hussein, in his
war with Iran around 20 years ago. Buried, forgotten and useless.
The why didn't he list them on his declaration, if he had intended to bury
them as a method of getting rid of them he woul dhave listed them in hte
declaration. No he was attempting to hide them for future use bu they went
bad first!
A few ancient mortar shells left over from a long forgotten conflict
were Saddams WMD's?
You neocons are crazier than I thought.
Clough
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