Politics > Politics-USA > The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault
| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Robert Henderson" |
| Date: |
29 Aug 2003 12:04:50 PM |
| Object: |
The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
The Kelly Inquiry day 11 - 28 8 2003
The appearance of Blair, Gavyn Davies (BBC Chairman) and
Blair
Mr Velveteen arrived with his usual small army of bodyguards in a
bullet-proof car (very wise) and passed a group of demonstrators with a
tasteful array of Mr Velveteen masks with Pinocchio noses and BLIAR
placards.
His evidence is best summed up as "I take full responsibility for
everything but none of it was my fault. "
1. Blair gave evidence for 2 and a half hours. His answers showed he
had been intimately involved in the strategy to deal with the Kelly
affair after Kelly admitted he had spoken to Andrew Gilligan - Blair
convened at least 3 meetings in four days of senior defence and
intelligence staff to deal with the matter.
2. Bizarrely, Blair claimed that the MoD had been left in charge of
dealing with Kelly while admitting that he had been intimately involved.
3. Blair claimed that Kelly's name would have come out regardless. This
is nonsense. Had Kelly kept quiet, Gilligan would have done and nothing
could have been established. Had the MoD and No 10 kept quiet after
Kelly came forward (I have my doubts whether he did this - I suspect he
was already under surveillance and suspicion by Special Branch),
Gilligan would have kept quiet and no one outside Government would have
known Kelly was involved.
4. Blair said the Sept 2002 dossier was produced after he had spoken
with Bush about Iraq and they had decided "something must be done".
5. Blair had the same memory lapses as Campbell, Hoon et al. He had no
recollection of seeing any draft dossier before 10 Sept. He had no
recollection of John Scarlett (JIC chairman) wanting Kelly to be
subjected to a "security interview". He had no knowledge of any scheme
to leak Kelly's name to the media. In fact he could remember precious
little of anything which happened.
6. Blair denied categorically that he or anyone else in NO10 had
inserted the "45 minutes" notice of biological and chemical attack into
the Sept 2002 dossier.
7. Blair said that if the charge of tampering with intelligence, in
particular the 45-minute charge, to justify action against Iraq had
been true he would have had to resign because it was "an attack that
went to the heart of the office of prime minister, but also ...to the
credibility of the country." (Note to Mr Velveteen: you must resign
immediately because this has been objectively established).
8. Blair claimed the dossier did not make the case for war but merely
laid out the then position regarding Iraq's WMDs.
9. On four occasions Blair he said he took "full responsibility" without
saying what it was exactly he took full responsibility for, but claimed
that all the decisions he was responsible for were the right
decisions: "I take full resposnibility for the decisions...I stand by
them; I believe they were the right decisions." (I suggest readers have
a quick lie down after reading that).
10. Blair admitted he was the first person to tell someone Government
that a source had come forward when he spoke to Gavyn Davies. Blair said
that he felt that the only way to resolve the dispute with the BBC was
for the BBC to issue "a clear and unequivocal# statement that the
original story was wrong.
Davies
1. Davies apologised for the conduct of Andrew Gilligan in suggesting
questions to a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. The matter is to
be referred to the BBC board of governors.
2. Davies said it was wrong for a journalist to reveal a source of
another journalist's work as Gilligan appeared to have done by revealing
Kelly's link with Susan Watts, the BBC Newsnight presenter,
in his email to a Lib Dem research assistant who passed the
information to Lib Dem MP, David Chidgey. Davies offered a partial
excuse for Gilligan's behaviour by saying that Gilligan was under great
pressure and thought the FAC was trying to discredit him as a
journalist.
3. Davies blamed Alastair Campbell for keeping the story running and
expanding it with his belligerent appearance before the FAC.
4. Describing his phone call with Blair on 7 July, Davies said that
Blair wanted to come to an agreement with the BBC t9o lower the
temperature. This did not happen because the BBC stood by Gilligan.
5. Davies said it was reasonable for the BBC to report a source who was
trusted on the baiss that it was simply their opinion and not that of
the BBC.
6. Davies accepted that Gilligan had made a mistake in his first
broadcast of 29 May when he claimed that the Government had inserted the
45-minute claim into the dossier. Asked by Lord Hutton why the BBC ha
dnot offered a qualified withdrawal, Davies replied that it was up to
people to make their assessment of what was said.
7. Davies said that Gilligan reporting style was one written in primary
colours not in shades of grey.
8. Davies did make a reasonably convincing display of regret at Kelly's
death, unlike anyone on the NuLabcur side to date. RH
--
Robert Henderson
philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
.
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| User: "Mike CJ" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
29 Aug 2003 01:38:40 PM |
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"Robert Henderson" <Philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ucg$7lAye4T$EweO@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
The Kelly Inquiry day 11 - 28 8 2003
The appearance of Blair, Gavyn Davies (BBC Chairman) and
Blair
Mr Velveteen arrived with his usual small army of bodyguards in a
bullet-proof car (very wise) and passed a group of demonstrators with a
tasteful array of Mr Velveteen masks with Pinocchio noses and BLIAR
placards.
If you read betweenm the lines, every government minister says that it was
someone else's fault.
NuLabour are all lying & squirming.
Of course, you can really trust Bliar (NOT)!
Mike.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19-Aug-2003
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| User: "abelard" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
29 Aug 2003 05:56:53 PM |
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On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:38:40 +0100, "Mike CJ" <me@privacy.net>
typed:
"Robert Henderson" <Philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ucg$7lAye4T$EweO@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
The Kelly Inquiry day 11 - 28 8 2003
The appearance of Blair, Gavyn Davies (BBC Chairman) and
Blair
Mr Velveteen arrived with his usual small army of bodyguards in a
bullet-proof car (very wise) and passed a group of demonstrators with a
tasteful array of Mr Velveteen masks with Pinocchio noses and BLIAR
placards.
If you read betweenm the lines, every government minister says that it was
someone else's fault.
NuLabour are all lying & squirming.
Of course, you can really trust Bliar (NOT)!
be aware that 'they'* are pulling a ploy....
'they'* have settled on getting as many people involved as possible
in an attempt to diffuse 'blame' as widely as possible....
it cannot thus be pinned down to one or a very few individuals.....
call in poirot...only real life ain't like that....
*just who the 'they' might be i am entirely unprepared to guess!
regards...
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
politics, ethics, education, etc >600,000 document calls yearly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Robert Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
30 Aug 2003 01:07:23 AM |
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In article <3fmvkvshv43esrpgg27puadego1c8os1sf@4ax.com>, abelard
<abelard@abelard.org> writes
f you read betweenm the lines, every government minister says that it was
someone else's fault.
NuLabour are all lying & squirming.
Of course, you can really trust Bliar (NOT)!
be aware that 'they'* are pulling a ploy....
'they'* have settled on getting as many people involved as possible
in an attempt to diffuse 'blame' as widely as possible....
it cannot thus be pinned down to one or a very few individuals.....
Would you care to also draw our attention to the fact the sky is blue
and the sun rises in the East? RH
--
Robert Henderson
philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
.
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| User: "Robert Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
31 Aug 2003 01:07:21 AM |
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In article <uv31lvsiq3ehb00cm7a4ub8v0dqeib8pld@4ax.com>, abelard
<abelard@abelard.org> writes
Would you care to also draw our attention to the fact the sky is blue
and the sun rises in the East? RH
the sky does appear to be blue in some places at some times....
at night after you have been put to bed it is not so often 'blue'.....
the sun however does not rise....the earth spins and eventually
it moves around to a where you can observe the sun (though
it is unwise to look directly at it)......
what you call sun rise is an optical illusion....
i suggest a basic sciences introduction....
regards....
Oh dear, the literalism of the computer exposed once again. RH
--
Robert Henderson
philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
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| User: "blue" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but noneof it wa smy fault |
30 Aug 2003 06:13:47 PM |
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Robert Henderson wrote:
In article <3fmvkvshv43esrpgg27puadego1c8os1sf@4ax.com>, abelard
<abelard@abelard.org> writes
f you read betweenm the lines, every government minister says that it was
someone else's fault.
NuLabour are all lying & squirming.
Of course, you can really trust Bliar (NOT)!
be aware that 'they'* are pulling a ploy....
'they'* have settled on getting as many people involved as possible
in an attempt to diffuse 'blame' as widely as possible....
it cannot thus be pinned down to one or a very few individuals.....
Would you care to also draw our attention to the fact the sky is blue
and the sun rises in the East? RH
I said it myself a while back. I expect abe is adjusting for the audience you gave him.
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| User: "alex.woodward" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
29 Aug 2003 05:36:34 PM |
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"Robert Henderson" <Philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ucg$7lAye4T$EweO@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
The Kelly Inquiry day 11 - 28 8 2003
The appearance of Blair, Gavyn Davies (BBC Chairman) and
Blair
Mr Velveteen arrived with his usual small army of bodyguards in a
bullet-proof car (very wise) and passed a group of demonstrators with a
tasteful array of Mr Velveteen masks with Pinocchio noses and BLIAR
placards.
His evidence is best summed up as "I take full responsibility for
everything but none of it was my fault. "
It is no good accepting responsibility if he chooses not to do anything
about it. At the end of the day Blair has no alternative but to resign (he
should have done that as a matter of honour when he committed our troops and
a section of them to their deaths). But of course he refuses to accept
responsibility for their deaths doesn't he?
He is a coward and a war mongering and extreme right wing infiltrator of a
once decent and honest political party.
Blair must go.
Alex
Lies, damned lies and The Sun
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| User: "abelard" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
29 Aug 2003 05:59:57 PM |
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On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:36:34 +0100, "alex.woodward" <flybo@mydothump.com>
typed:
He is a coward and a war mongering and extreme right wing infiltrator of a
once decent and honest political party.
yeah....yet another socialist who is not *really* a socialist....
you socialists are soooo predictable....
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
politics, ethics, education, etc >600,000 document calls yearly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "alex.woodward" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
30 Aug 2003 10:29:53 AM |
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"abelard" <abelard@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:ikmvkv0tc6h3jbcfddocvkebaffh7q3he9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:36:34 +0100, "alex.woodward" <flybo@mydothump.com>
typed:
He is a coward and a war mongering and extreme right wing infiltrator of
a
once decent and honest political party.
yeah....yet another socialist who is not *really* a socialist....
you socialists are soooo predictable....
??? a socialist who is not really a socialist??? Look, I believe in a level
playing field where the best are allowed to achieve and where passed on
extreme privilege is frowned on as a form of parasitic behaviour. I think
that sums up my point of view.
Alex
Lies, damned lies and The Sun
.
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| User: "abelard" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
30 Aug 2003 12:10:34 PM |
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On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:29:53 +0100, "alex.woodward" <flybo@mydothump.com>
typed:
"abelard" <abelard@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:ikmvkv0tc6h3jbcfddocvkebaffh7q3he9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:36:34 +0100, "alex.woodward" <flybo@mydothump.com>
typed:
He is a coward and a war mongering and extreme right wing infiltrator of
a
once decent and honest political party.
yeah....yet another socialist who is not *really* a socialist....
you socialists are soooo predictable....
??? a socialist who is not really a socialist???
good...
Look, I believe in a level
playing field where the best
'best' at what? 'best' in what sense?
are allowed to achieve
achieve what?
and where passed on
extreme privilege
precisely how 'extreme'?
is frowned on as a form of parasitic behaviour. I think
that sums up my point of view.
seems reasonable on the face of it....
what is pa has £10,000...or even wins it in the lottery....
'should' he be able to spend it on a better education for you?
what is someone else's pa spends the money on fags?
should your family be able to get you a pair of trainers?
what is your pa is a lot brighter than jo sixpak's farther down the road..
is he allowed to educate you to a much higher and more effective
degree?
regards...
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
politics, ethics, education, etc >600,000 document calls yearly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "alex.woodward" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
31 Aug 2003 07:36:45 AM |
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"abelard" <abelard@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:2bm1lvkh0m4lorqkg3bepb6r9l95re891u@4ax.com...
On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:29:53 +0100, "alex.woodward" <flybo@mydothump.com>
typed:
"abelard" <abelard@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:ikmvkv0tc6h3jbcfddocvkebaffh7q3he9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:36:34 +0100, "alex.woodward"
<flybo@mydothump.com>
typed:
He is a coward and a war mongering and extreme right wing infiltrator
of
a
once decent and honest political party.
yeah....yet another socialist who is not *really* a socialist....
you socialists are soooo predictable....
??? a socialist who is not really a socialist???
good...
Look, I believe in a level
playing field where the best
'best' at what? 'best' in what sense?
as in out perform others at their given discipline.
are allowed to achieve
achieve what?
are favoured beofore others who don't perform.
and where passed on
extreme privilege
precisely how 'extreme'?
Let us just say where inherited privilege inherently places someone in a
position where any potential competition is blocked. It is about quality
which is a dynamic concept. Inhereted privilege has no quality since it
stands for stagnation with a conservative outlook. One where nothing changes
for the better and where greed, fear and hate reside.
is frowned on as a form of parasitic behaviour. I think
that sums up my point of view.
seems reasonable on the face of it....
what is pa has £10,000...or even wins it in the lottery....
'should' he be able to spend it on a better education for you?
Education should be part of the level playing field. We live in a rich
country, one that is well able and capable of providing children from all
groups an equal opportunity for the same education.
A country that trades its education also trades in elitism, privilege and
ultimate stagnation.
Why do you think our infrastructure is in such a mess. It is because those
who ultimately hold power come from the stagnating classes of the
privileged. We need to nurture quality in the future to overcome the British
class culture of limited ideas. And for that to happen we need to put all
our children in a position where they have equal access to the same level of
educational facilities.
what is someone else's pa spends the money on fags?
should your family be able to get you a pair of trainers?
I am not talking about access to superficial consumer items. If your
monetary wealth allows you buy your teenager a ferrari, that is up to you
(whether this would be a responsible act is another matter). My point
revolves around personal achievement and fair and open competition.
The elite want to concentrate the quality elements of society to suit their
own needs at the cost of everyone else. It is a recipe that encourages a
small pool of "talent" with corresponding small numbers plucked from it. It
benefits no one but those whose wealth and position has been gained via a
prejudiced system.
what is your pa is a lot brighter than jo sixpak's farther down the road..
is he allowed to educate you to a much higher and more effective
degree?
Again, education should be available to all regardless of the wealth of the
parents. We have a rich country that can afford it. Why should a child be
prevented from having and education equal to all others? It strikes me that
an elite and privileged few are scared to death of allowing all, the same
access that their wealth brought them.
Alex
Lies, damned lies and The Sun
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| User: "basho007" |
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| Title: Re: The Kelly Inquiry - day 11: Mr Velveteen- I am responsible but none of it wa smy fault |
29 Aug 2003 11:58:05 AM |
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Robert Henderson <Philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:Ucg$7lAye4T$EweO@anywhere.demon.co.uk:
The Kelly Inquiry day 11 - 28 8 2003
The appearance of Blair, Gavyn Davies (BBC Chairman) and
Blair
Mr Velveteen arrived with his usual small army of bodyguards in a
bullet-proof car (very wise) and passed a group of demonstrators with a
tasteful array of Mr Velveteen masks with Pinocchio noses and BLIAR
placards.
His evidence is best summed up as "I take full responsibility for
everything but none of it was my fault. "
1. Blair gave evidence for 2 and a half hours. His answers showed he
had been intimately involved in the strategy to deal with the Kelly
affair after Kelly admitted he had spoken to Andrew Gilligan - Blair
convened at least 3 meetings in four days of senior defence and
intelligence staff to deal with the matter.
2. Bizarrely, Blair claimed that the MoD had been left in charge of
dealing with Kelly while admitting that he had been intimately involved.
from a story in the Independent:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=438133
Just over five weeks ago, on learning of Dr Kelly's apparent suicide during
an official flight from Shanghai to Hong Kong, the Prime Minister had
"categorically" and "emphatically" denied he had played a part in revealing
the scientist's name.
Mr Blair, his ministers and spokesmen had subsequently declared that the
Ministry of Defence had been left to handle Dr Kelly after he volunteered
the fact that he had discussed last September's Iraq dossier with Mr
Gilligan.
Four days after Dr Kelly was discovered dead in an Oxfordshire wood, the
Prime Minister's official spokesman was still insisting that the MoD was
the "lead department" in working out the strategy over Dr Kelly and that
this had been done under "normal MoD procedure".
But the Prime Minister, under questioning, conceded that no one was even
present from the MoD at a crucial meeting on 8 July, chaired by him, in
which the decision was taken to issue a statement about a civil servant
coming forward as Mr Gilligan's contact. He also acknowledged there was no
such thing as "normal MoD procedure" in this unusual situation.
end of extract.
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