| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"=?iso-8859-1?q?M=F6bius_Pretzel?=" |
| Date: |
24 Aug 2006 10:43:05 PM |
| Object: |
The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
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| User: "Fred Oinka" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
26 Aug 2006 09:16:54 AM |
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M=F6bius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
I was in the military in the late 70's, and everywhere I looked, there
were Iranians training at our bases.
The chickens have come home to roost.
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| User: "john" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
24 Aug 2006 10:46:36 PM |
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Möbius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
.
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| User: "George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
25 Aug 2006 02:12:20 AM |
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On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:46:36 -0700, john <@global.net> wrote:
Möbius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
You mean since the US started interfering in the internal affairs of
middle eastern countries? And they don't attack all civilized
countries. They don't attack Sweden. OR Switzerland. They attack
countries which interfere in their internal affairs - the US, UK,
Spain, Australia.
If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
We should let them alone, let them stew in their own juices.
It's not like they're not going to sell the oil.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
.
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
25 Aug 2006 11:34:35 AM |
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If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
You could almost replicate this word for word from something written around
1939 regarding Nazi germany. It's funny how, despite our attempt at
isolationism, we got dragged into WWII anyway, isn't it? Some of us really
seem to never learn from history (and are therefore doomed to repeat it, as
it goes).
The threat from Islamic extremism is real. You can stick your head in the
sand all you want but the current world situation doesn't support your
conclusion, imho.
If oil wealthy middle eastern leaders allowed their citizens to share a
little in the wealth (ala, say, Kuwait) as opposed to building more castles
for themselves, declined from using the scapegoating of Jews (and to some
extent, Americans/Europeans) as a distraction for their subjugated
population, stopped severly discriminating against/abusing women and
subjugating children, stopped threatening that everyone has to be converted
to Islam or die, stopped teaching that it's admirable to 'martyr' oneself by
killing innocent civilians, and stopped using the withholding-oil-as-weapon
strategy, then perhaps the US would stop interfering in the affairs of
middle eastern countries, as you so succinctly put it.
You know what pisses me off? It's strictly by chance that so much of the
world's oil is in that region, a resource that actually belongs to the
world, not to the people who happen to be sitting on top of it, imho. They
didn't even know they had it. They didn't know how to extract it. They
developed and innovated nothing. It was the west who showed them, and it's
western technology that extracts it for them. If it wasn't for that oil,
they would be relegated to being inconsequential and we wouldn't be having
this discussion.
What we should have done decades ago is what Kuwait tried to do to Iraq: set
up equipment outside their borders and pumped the oil out diagonally. They
never would have known it was theirs. I think that would be funny. :-)
What we should be doing now is freeing ourselves from oil dependency and
thereby relegating the middle eastern oil countries back to the 16th century
where they would otherwise have remained.
"George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr." <tyrebiter@mooresciencehigh.edu> wrote in
message news:ag8te2l7k50sf2oecgeft8ubs488b83bso@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:46:36 -0700, john <@global.net> wrote:
Möbius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
You mean since the US started interfering in the internal affairs of
middle eastern countries? And they don't attack all civilized
countries. They don't attack Sweden. OR Switzerland. They attack
countries which interfere in their internal affairs - the US, UK,
Spain, Australia.
If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
We should let them alone, let them stew in their own juices.
It's not like they're not going to sell the oil.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
.
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| User: "photoman" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
28 Aug 2006 10:59:42 AM |
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"Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:wEFHg.30$ee4.5@newsfe10.lga...
What we should be doing now is freeing ourselves from oil dependency and
thereby relegating the middle eastern oil countries back to the 16th
century where they would otherwise have remained.
Exactly. Imagine if we put $400B into an alternative energy Manhattan
Project instead of that twisted, perverted, war criminal, corporate ***** of
a president squandering it butchering & slaughtering innocent people and
destabilizing a whole region while enriching his corporate cronies.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
25 Aug 2006 07:50:49 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:34:35 -0400, "Carl"
<crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
You could almost replicate this word for word from something written around
1939 regarding Nazi germany.
Appeasement actually often works. For instance, the US appeased
Hezbollah in Lebanon, after they blew up our marine barracks, by just
putting our tail between our legs and running. IT worked. Hezbollah
did not follow the marines back to Camp Pendleton.
The lesson of Munich, that appeasement never works, is false.
It depends on what the other side is trying to achieve.
Germany was an aggressor, invading neighboring nations. They weren't
reacting to intrusions into Germany by others - they wanted to expand,
to grab resources owned by others. They had serious economic problems
that required them to grab other lands and resources. So they could
not be appeased.
Bin Laden is not trying to grab stuff owned by others. He is trying to
get us out of Arabia. That's what he wants. And why don't we want the
same thing? What do we gain by being there? We want to be sure oil
comes out and is sold on the world market. I think that will happen
whether we are present in the middle east or not. So why not just
leave?
Indeed, the better analogy is to put the US in the role of Germany,
constantly invading others.
Saddam tried to appease us, he got rid of all his old weapons and
didn't make new ones. And we knew that before we attacked him. Did his
appeasement work? No.
Because we want to control Iraq and its oil.
It's funny how, despite our attempt at
isolationism, we got dragged into WWII anyway, isn't it?
We got dragged in by Japan, after we participated in an embargo of oil
to them. Without Oil Japan couldn't continue its war with China.
Germany kept attacking other nations, trying to take them over. Bin
Laden isn't that kind of guy.
You are comparing an apple - Germany - with an orange - Al Qaeda.
What is true of the apple isn't necessarily true of the orange.
Some of us really
seem to never learn from history (and are therefore doomed to repeat it, as
it goes).
And some of us notice that there has been more than one event in
history. History consists of more than - WWII.
Germany could not be appeased. Many others have been successfully
appeased. It really depends on the circumstances.
What does Bin Laden want? What did Hitler want?
I think it's important to consider those questions instead of relying
on a trite, false, oversimplified platitude.
History is more than - one platitude.
The threat from Islamic extremism is real. You can stick your head in the
sand all you want but the current world situation doesn't support your
conclusion, imho.
The threat is real. And the solution isn't to viciously attack them
for no good reason, using a pack of lies, employing extraordinarily
brutal methods.
THe solution isn't to prop up brutal dictators just to get their oil
cheaply, with the money going to the Swiss bank accounts of a few
tyrants, rather than to the benefit of the people who live there.
The solution isn't to feed the brutal Saddam Hussein satellite photos
of the his warfront with Iran, knowing he was using those photos to
spot Iranian troops to be gassed.
The solution isn't to atatck a weak defenseless nation like Iraq on
the grounds of false claims that we were merely acting in
self-defense. Doesn't history tell us that that was exactly the same
lame lie told by Germany to justify its invasion of Poland? That they
had to do it to protect Germans?
The solution isn't to use our CIA to help overthrow the popular leader
of Iran so that we can put our puppets, the brutal Shahs, in power.
It seems to me the solution is for us to act decently and fairly. To
stop killing them, to stop stealing from them, to stop propping up
monsters who persecute them.
They don't want to kill us because of our freedoms. They aren't
killing Swedes. They want to kill us - because we need killin as they
say in Texas.
And we have to understand that if we're going to draw the CORRECT
lessons from history.
If oil wealthy middle eastern leaders allowed their citizens to share a
little in the wealth (ala, say, Kuwait) as opposed to building more castles
for themselves, declined from using the scapegoating of Jews (and to some
extent, Americans/Europeans) as a distraction for their subjugated
population, stopped severly discriminating against/abusing women and
subjugating children, stopped threatening that everyone has to be converted
to Islam or die, stopped teaching that it's admirable to 'martyr' oneself by
killing innocent civilians, and stopped using the withholding-oil-as-weapon
strategy, then perhaps the US would stop interfering in the affairs of
middle eastern countries, as you so succinctly put it.
Funny. You seem not to understand that those are the people who are
OUR puppets. The Kuwaitis, the Saudi Royals - are OUR GUYS.
Who do you think provides a military backstop for them? Who sells them
weapons? Who trains their pilots?
Who bailed the Kuwaitis out when Saddam got fed up with their
slant-drilling into Iraq to steal Iraqi oil?
Our interference is designed to KEEP THESE FOLKS IN PLACE.
You know what pisses me off? It's strictly by chance that so much of the
world's oil is in that region, a resource that actually belongs to the
world, not to the people who happen to be sitting on top of it, imho. They
didn't even know they had it. They didn't know how to extract it. They
developed and innovated nothing. It was the west who showed them, and it's
western technology that extracts it for them. If it wasn't for that oil,
they would be relegated to being inconsequential and we wouldn't be having
this discussion.
What we should have done decades ago is what Kuwait tried to do to Iraq: set
up equipment outside their borders and pumped the oil out diagonally. They
never would have known it was theirs. I think that would be funny. :-)
What we should be doing now is freeing ourselves from oil dependency and
thereby relegating the middle eastern oil countries back to the 16th century
where they would otherwise have remained.
"George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr." <tyrebiter@mooresciencehigh.edu> wrote in
message news:ag8te2l7k50sf2oecgeft8ubs488b83bso@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:46:36 -0700, john <@global.net> wrote:
Möbius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
You mean since the US started interfering in the internal affairs of
middle eastern countries? And they don't attack all civilized
countries. They don't attack Sweden. OR Switzerland. They attack
countries which interfere in their internal affairs - the US, UK,
Spain, Australia.
If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
We should let them alone, let them stew in their own juices.
It's not like they're not going to sell the oil.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
.
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| User: "kirtland" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
25 Aug 2006 06:13:37 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:34:35 -0400, "Carl"
<crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
You could almost replicate this word for word from something written around
1939 regarding Nazi germany. It's funny how, despite our attempt at
isolationism, we got dragged into WWII anyway, isn't it? Some of us really
seem to never learn from history (and are therefore doomed to repeat it, as
it goes).
The threat from Islamic extremism is real. You can stick your head in the
sand all you want but the current world situation doesn't support your
conclusion, imho.
If oil wealthy middle eastern leaders allowed their citizens to share a
little in the wealth (ala, say, Kuwait) as opposed to building more castles
for themselves,
The west set up the system. It's easier to control a country that way.
When the people tried to overthrow them, the west stepped to prevent
it. An excellent example is Iran as it is well documented.
declined from using the scapegoating of Jews
Did you know the Jews were the first to use terrorism on a large
scale? In fact, it is how they managed to create Israel.
(and to some
extent, Americans/Europeans) as a distraction for their subjugated
population, stopped severly discriminating against/abusing women and
subjugating children, stopped threatening that everyone has to be converted
to Islam or die, stopped teaching that it's admirable to 'martyr' oneself by
killing innocent civilians,
Many countries were well on their way towards these goals until the
west stepped in.
and stopped using the withholding-oil-as-weapon
strategy, then perhaps the US would stop interfering in the affairs of
middle eastern countries, as you so succinctly put it.
Just because the US gobbled up it's own reserves, doesn't mean they
have the right to take other countries oil.
You know what pisses me off? It's strictly by chance that so much of the
world's oil is in that region, a resource that actually belongs to the
world, not to the people who happen to be sitting on top of it, imho.
If the oil belongs to the world, why is the US using such a
disproportionate amount of it?
They
didn't even know they had it. They didn't know how to extract it. They
developed and innovated nothing.
Did you know that mathematics, writing and most of the sciences
originated in the area now known as Iraq and Iran? Your forefathers
were hunter-gatherers living hand to mouth at this time.
It was the west who showed them, and it's
western technology that extracts it for them. If it wasn't for that oil,
they would be relegated to being inconsequential and we wouldn't be having
this discussion.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if the imperial west hadn't
created arbitrary borders that paid no heed to the people that lived
there.
What we should have done decades ago is what Kuwait tried to do to Iraq: set
up equipment outside their borders and pumped the oil out diagonally. They
never would have known it was theirs. I think that would be funny. :-)
You didn't know how to do that decades ago.
What we should be doing now is freeing ourselves from oil dependency and
thereby relegating the middle eastern oil countries back to the 16th century
where they would otherwise have remained.
Good. When are you going to start?
"George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr." <tyrebiter@mooresciencehigh.edu> wrote in
message news:ag8te2l7k50sf2oecgeft8ubs488b83bso@4ax.com...
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:46:36 -0700, john <@global.net> wrote:
Möbius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
You mean since the US started interfering in the internal affairs of
middle eastern countries? And they don't attack all civilized
countries. They don't attack Sweden. OR Switzerland. They attack
countries which interfere in their internal affairs - the US, UK,
Spain, Australia.
If the US stopped supporting coups, siding with Israel, propping up
people like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi Royal Family, then these
people would ignore us.
We should let them alone, let them stew in their own juices.
It's not like they're not going to sell the oil.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
.
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| User: "* US *" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
26 Aug 2006 10:56:27 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:34:35 -0400, "Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
The threat from Islamic extremism is real. ...
It's just far less likely than you getting hit by lightning.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?q?M=F6bius_Pretzel?=" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
24 Aug 2006 10:51:10 PM |
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john (typical dumbfuck Americunt) wrote:
M=F6bius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
Yes folks, another dumbfuck Americunt displays his stupidity..
(ho hum)
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
25 Aug 2006 11:06:51 AM |
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Well, count me in as one of those "dumbfucks". I think everything he said is
right on the money. I think you're misguided.
"Möbius Pretzel" <Mobius.Pretzel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156477870.482354.309510@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
john (typical dumbfuck Americunt) wrote:
Möbius Pretzel wrote:
Lifting seven veils of the Iraqi illusion
The overriding fallacy underlying the catastrophe in Iraq is the belief
that the US can solve that country's problems, however extreme and
intractable they may seem. There are seven very good reasons why the US
occupation can never be a part of the solution - starting and ending
with a cycle of terror.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH24Ak03.html
The problem is that Islam Fundamentalists have been conducting terrorism
or war against all civilized Countries for at least 30 years.
We must eliminate Islamic Terrorists world wide and their support
networks and their Koran that teaches murder.
Yes folks, another dumbfuck Americunt displays his stupidity..
(ho hum)
.
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| User: "* US *" |
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| Title: Re: The U.S. Oil Nazis Can't Fix Iraq - They Are The PROBLEM |
26 Aug 2006 10:57:43 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:06:51 -0400, "Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
Well, count me in as one of those "dumbfucks"...
Your posts assure it.
You believe Bush when he claims he speaks for God,
too, don't you.
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