On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:39:33 -0700, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

Which third world nation has ever became a first order power? Maybe
Russia for a while but they are back to third world. The only chance
China has is to cut their population by about 2/3.

The United States?

The USA has never had the burden of a high population. This may
change.

I think it's imperative it change. Look what static and shrinking
population is doing to the economies of Europe and Russia.

If nothing else, swelling the workforce with young immigrants who have
lots of babies will sure help out with entitlements.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:42:00 -0700, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

We pretty much owe the US to China right now, the amount
of money we've been borrowing. China IS a first-order
country in every respect - they just don't stand up and
crow about it. I'd rank its overall condition as 2nd
world, with pockets of 1st and 3rd. Anyway, China is
definitely worth paying attention to. Hell, they may
own yer ***** already ...

This is superstition. Using your theory Canada has owned the US for
many years. I remember this same BS about Japan 20 or so years ago.
China has a GDP that is 1/4 that of the US with over 4 times the
population. The Chinese GDP - per capita is less than that of the
world average.

It's not superstition, it's exaggeration. Japan completely destroyed
America's home electronics industry. You can't buy a TV or DVD made
in this country. They don't exist. Japan has reduced Detroit's share
of the American auto market to less than GM's was in the sixties. What
do you think is going to happen to GM, Ford, Daimler-Chrysler, Toyota,
Nissan, et al when China enters the US car market in the next decade?
How is belittling or marginalizing China going to stop their growth
and presence in the world?

China's GDP may be smaller than ours today, but it's growing at four
times the rate ours is. This btw, is why we must make massive
immigration legal in this country. We need workers and consumers to
create more wealth in order to keep up.

What you seem to be missing is that what is true today isn't what is
going to be true tomorrow. China's GDP isn't always going to be a
quarter of ours or smaller than the global average. While we struggle
to keep our growth rate near a supposed ideal of 3%, China is
struggling to keep their growth rate under a mind boggling 8%.

FYI First world countries are highly developed industrial economies
such as the US, Canada, Japan and the EU countries. Second world
countries are planned socialist countries such as Cuba, North Korea
and coming soon Venezuela. Third world countries are the so called
developing countries such as South Korea, Mexico and Brazil that have
resources that give them a shot at developing themselves. Fourth world
countries are those countries that have little resources beyond a
starving population such as much of central Africa, Central America
and much of the Moslem world.

I would disagree with your ordering and your order parameters. Post
war, ordering was politically based. First world countries were once
defined as non communist, highly developed industrial nations,
particularly the non Iron Curtain participants in WWII. Second world
nations were Soviet Bloc nations. Third world nations were everybody
else.

This ordering is obsolete. These days such categories can no longer
be defined by political systems. Economic development, growth,
internal stability and religion are more important. Bush 41 spoke of
the New World Order without defining it. Growth rates, global
political clout, international networking have all replaced the old
bipolar capitalist-communist basis. In the new world order the US,
Japan and western Europe continue economic dominance but are slipping
politically as China signs contracts, invests hard currency and makes
friends among poorer nations who once looked to the US as the best or
only chance for improving their condition but now see China as a
viable partner in achieving what might be best described as the
American Dream.

I'd posit a tiered system with the G-8, EU and their closest allies at
the top and the impoverished nations of Africa at the bottom. The oil
rich Muslims states occupy their own tier. South America is doing
better than ever and Brazil leads them. It's clearly the most
prosperous and stable state in the western hemisphere excepting only
the US and Canada and they along with China are investing heavily in
South American identity and prosperity. Another tier.

The US best interests are served by ceasing our constant attempts to
control the rest of this hemisphere and focusing our attention on
close relations and mutually beneficial relationships.

20 million man armies are no longer scary when that army only has the
ability to attack their poorer neighbors. It is more a drain on a
country than an asset.

Weapons have become too efficient and destructive to allow war to
continue to be an option in disputes. The world has moved beyond 19th
century imperialism and 20th century nationalism. The tools of war
alone will guarantee the end of warfare as we've known it at least
among the powerful. If we don't recognize those changes and work to
make our place in a future unlike anything humans have ever faced,
we'll extinguish ourselves and our most precious institutions.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 09:25:17 -0700, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

What does China supply that can't be provided from other places?

Equity loans on a nine figure scale.

Equity eh? Do you see China foreclosing any time soon on Wal*Mart?

Do you see Wal Mart voluntarily raising it's costs and prices in order
to gain the good will of consumers irrationally threatened by China?

The US was once a third order nation. A barely united conglomerate
immigrant colonists speaking a dozen languages and all scrapping for
their bit of an as yet unbaked pie.

Yet in less than 200 years the US leads the world.

China will do it much sooner.

In the 4,000 years
of China's history the only time that they were a world power is when
they were run by a foreign power. The Mongols.

Sophisticated urban civilization in China predates the Greeks and can
be traced back as far as Egypt's middle kingdom. Until the
Renaissance China was also a leader in technological development.
Chinese medicine was more highly developed than anything Europe knew
before the 18th century. Their astronomical observations exceed in
detail the state of the art in western culture until the renaissance.

The last revolution in the US was the Civil War 145 years ago. The
first half of the 20th century was nothing but revolution in China.
The Communist (Mao) dynasty is one of a string of governments
stretching back into dim history. China takes the slow path because
they have little other choice.

That revolution was a direct result of European conquest. Religious
and philosophical values changed in China prior to the renaissance
causing a retardation in science and technology just as Europe was
beginning to burgeon with scientific discovery and application. The
aftermath of Europe's attempts to colonize in Asia resulted in
instability that lasted for decades. While there were wars as
continually as Europe saw during the same period, Chinese government
only collapsed well into the twentieth century.

Having 1.3 billion people when 1 billion are non productive is not a
pay window. In 2005 the Chinese GDP grew 9.9% this means that the
average Chinese citizen increased his wealth by around $600 dollars.
In the United states with a growth rate of 3.5% the average American
increased his wealth by around $1,400.

Again you ignore the fact that China is changing. Growth is enormous
and rapid. The yuan sucks up every increase in value Beijing will
allow. You can deride China as a backwards nation if you like but it
boasts more cities over a million than any other region in the world.
The largest shopping malls and condo complexes are there and getting
bigger. And how backward, poor and non productive can they be when
they're loaning hundreds of billions to the US and every day brings
more complaints and revelations about the influence China has in the
US economy. You pointed out China's value to Wal Mart, this country's
largest retailer and employer.

Other countries with high economic growth rates would include India at
7.6%, Afghanistan at 8% and Venezuela at 9.3%. Do you project any of
these countries becoming dominate world economies?

They're too small except for India which is giving China a run for
it's money. Even so, it's still Asia and India and China share
border. Asia is rapidly becoming powerful and China will be it's
leading nation.

Our job isn't to prevent or supercede Chinese global supremacy, but to
secure our place in the new world order that 2099 will bring and
assure we don't drown in China's propwash.

LOL!

<g> Laugh now but learn Mandarin.

"We will bury you!" -- Nikita Khrushchev Chairman of the former USSR.

China makes no such threats. China isn't wasting it's resources on
guns and bombs and fomenting international conflict.