| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" |
| Date: |
08 Apr 2005 12:39:52 AM |
| Object: |
Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
Yeah - this expensive frill might save a handful of lives a year, but
lower speed limits and mandatory prison for speeders and DUIs would
save 20 thousand lives and billions of $.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/automobiles/AP-Tire-Pressure.html?
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: April 7, 2005
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A light on motorists' instrument panels will soon
warn them when a tire is underinflated. The safety regulation, issued
by the government Thursday, has its roots in the Firestone tire recall
of 2000. It requires new passenger cars to have tire pressure
monitoring systems in place by the 2008 model year.
Automakers most likely will attach tiny sensors to each wheel that will
signal if a tire falls 25 percent below the recommended inflation
pressure. If any one of the four tires is underinflated, the sensor
sets off a warning light.
Automakers will begin using the technology in September. The National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the upgrade will cost
manufacturers between $48.44 and $69.89 per vehicle.
(snip)
NHTSA estimates that 120 lives a year will be saved when all new
vehicles are equipped with the systems.
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 11:19:11 AM |
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"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112938792.095998.67950@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Yeah - this expensive frill might save a handful of lives a year,
It will probably save alot of lives. The sad truth is that many of these
people otherwise would have gotten a Darwin Award, because they were too
lazy or stupid to check the air in their tires themselves.
I carry around a 10 dollar electronic tire gauge and check my air weekly,
and there's always a small air pump in the back of my car. Why is it so
hard for the rest of the public that needs to be told their tires are low?
Cars now days are loaded with electronic sensors for all kinds of reasons
(the big ones are pollution control, followed by safety), and when they go
bad, often it creates just another repair bill. I wonder why they think
adding a sensor to fix a problem that really is not a problem, is a good
thing.
I'm just glad the sensor is "only" 50 bucks for the tires. That still
adds up.
.
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| User: "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 12:17:16 PM |
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Magnulus wrote:
"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:1112938792.095998.67950@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Yeah - this expensive frill might save a handful of lives a year,
It will probably save alot of lives. The sad truth is that many
of these
people otherwise would have gotten a Darwin Award, because they were
too
lazy or stupid to check the air in their tires themselves.
I think part of the reason is those 1" valve stems tire shops use.
Makes it impossible to get the cap off and check the pressure unless
you remove the hub cap. I bought a couple tars last week and that's
what they put on. I had some valve stem extenders laying around and put
them on but i think a lot of people don't know you can do that.
.
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 03:44:16 PM |
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"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112980636.000769.186870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I think part of the reason is those 1" valve stems tire shops use.
Makes it impossible to get the cap off and check the pressure unless
you remove the hub cap.
I'm confused. My tires are Michelin Energy Plus. They have read-through
valves and its easy to check the pressure. My mom's pickup has Dunlops,
and my dad's Ford Crown Vic has Yokohamas... and all of them have easy to
reach valves. What kind of tire are you using that you have to remove the
hubcap?
.
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| User: "Timothy J. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
10 Apr 2005 12:00:23 AM |
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In article <rYB5e.36162$f%4.33555@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
Magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I'm confused. My tires are Michelin Energy Plus. They have read-through
valves and its easy to check the pressure.
If you like the read-through caps, take them off and keep them before
replacing your tires when they wear out. Chances are, the tire shop
won't notice the special caps and will install new valves with standard
caps.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
.
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| User: "Big Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
10 Apr 2005 11:24:48 AM |
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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:44:16 -0400, "Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112980636.000769.186870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I think part of the reason is those 1" valve stems tire shops use.
Makes it impossible to get the cap off and check the pressure unless
you remove the hub cap.
I'm confused. My tires are Michelin Energy Plus. They have read-through
valves and its easy to check the pressure. My mom's pickup has Dunlops,
and my dad's Ford Crown Vic has Yokohamas... and all of them have easy to
reach valves. What kind of tire are you using that you have to remove the
hubcap?
Yourr tires have valves?
The valves on my vehicles are, and always have been, in the wheels.
The model of tire on the wheel has nothing to do with the valves used.
Or does Michelin require (and supply) certain valves to go with
certain of their tires?
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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| User: "L Sternn" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 06:32:26 PM |
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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:44:16 -0400, "Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112980636.000769.186870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I think part of the reason is those 1" valve stems tire shops use.
Makes it impossible to get the cap off and check the pressure unless
you remove the hub cap.
I'm confused. My tires are Michelin Energy Plus. They have read-through
valves and its easy to check the pressure. My mom's pickup has Dunlops,
and my dad's Ford Crown Vic has Yokohamas... and all of them have easy to
reach valves. What kind of tire are you using that you have to remove the
hubcap?
Who cares - I've never seen a tire that you had to take the hubcap off
to get to the valve stem.
The reason I don't check my "tars" enough is that I'm a lazy *****.
I'd love to be able to see the actual pressure on the dash somewhere,
but I don't want the gov't to mandate it, and I want it to be more
than an "idiot light" that tells me my tars are at least 25% low.
Even though I'm lazy, I do check them enough that if they ever get
that low, it's because there's a leak and they need to be fixed or
replaced.
I've had my "tars" shot out before (not by cops) and I didn't realize
it until it started handling funny (badly).
Having 1 flat tire sucks bad enough - having 2 really sucks,
especially when you only got 1 spare.
.
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 08:52:00 PM |
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"L Sternn" <lincolnfs@hm.net> wrote in message
news:tr4e511d908n04cf39h7q11hm02u45g8ae@4ax.com...
The reason I don't check my "tars" enough is that I'm a lazy *****.
I'd love to be able to see the actual pressure on the dash somewhere,
but I don't want the gov't to mandate it, and I want it to be more
than an "idiot light" that tells me my tars are at least 25% low.
Which is exactly what they are doing- an idiot light.
All this stuff is being brought on by SUV's. If idiots didn't drive
SUV's, it wouldn't be as big a deal. Tire blowouts on a car aren't so bad-
on an SUV it is alot more dangerous, for reasons anybody who is not a
drooling simpleton would grasp. So we'll all have to pay for the SUV
driver's stupidity.
I wonder how they'll deal with overinflation, since many people inflate
their tires more than the lackluster recommendations for American cars. I
run my tires about 3 psi more than "recommended"- it adds a few MPG in fuel
economy. American tires and suspension are usually softer than the rest of
the world's.
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| User: "L Sternn" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
09 Apr 2005 02:12:49 AM |
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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:52:00 -0400, "Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
"L Sternn" <lincolnfs@hm.net> wrote in message
news:tr4e511d908n04cf39h7q11hm02u45g8ae@4ax.com...
The reason I don't check my "tars" enough is that I'm a lazy *****.
I'd love to be able to see the actual pressure on the dash somewhere,
but I don't want the gov't to mandate it, and I want it to be more
than an "idiot light" that tells me my tars are at least 25% low.
Which is exactly what they are doing- an idiot light.
All this stuff is being brought on by SUV's. If idiots didn't drive
SUV's, it wouldn't be as big a deal. Tire blowouts on a car aren't so bad-
on an SUV it is alot more dangerous, for reasons anybody who is not a
drooling simpleton would grasp. So we'll all have to pay for the SUV
driver's stupidity.
I wonder how they'll deal with overinflation, since many people inflate
their tires more than the lackluster recommendations for American cars. I
run my tires about 3 psi more than "recommended"- it adds a few MPG in fuel
economy. American tires and suspension are usually softer than the rest of
the world's.
There's a very amusing pasage written by Hunter S. Thompson about
over-inflating his tires on his great red shark (or some kind of shark
- a Cadillac if my memory serves).....I think it's in FLLV, but I read
most of his books in about a 2 year period so I could be wrong about
which book it appeared in.
He said the gas station attendant was scared to put any more in his
tires.
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| User: "Scott en Aztlán" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
09 Apr 2005 01:12:24 PM |
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On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:52:00 -0400, "Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
I'd love to be able to see the actual pressure on the dash somewhere,
but I don't want the gov't to mandate it, and I want it to be more
than an "idiot light" that tells me my tars are at least 25% low.
Which is exactly what they are doing- an idiot light.
All this stuff is being brought on by SUV's.
Tell me, which model of Audi SUV was it again that first suffered from
"unintended acceleration" and resulted in the asinine "engine won't
start unless the shifter is in Park" lockouts that are now present on
EVERY car sold in America?
If idiots didn't drive SUV's, it wouldn't be as big a deal.
It doesn't matter what idiots drive, we would still have stupid
gadgets designed to protect idiots (and inconveniece everyone else).
--
Sloth Kills!
http://www.geocities.com/slothkills/
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
09 Apr 2005 09:50:13 PM |
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"Scott en Aztlán" <slothkills@NOyahooSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:cj6g51949oaat2q8mf1ko0ahvr9253t1pv@4ax.com...
Tell me, which model of Audi SUV was it again that first suffered from
"unintended acceleration" and resulted in the asinine "engine won't
start unless the shifter is in Park" lockouts that are now present on
EVERY car sold in America?
Complete BS. Lots of cars have drive-by-wire accelerators now (my car
does). The Audi incident was nothing but people stepping on the
accelerator when they stepped on the brake, and a bunch of lawyers taking a
little fact (that DBW's have no mechanical linkage) and running with it.
They had an incident in Central Florida about a year ago where this woman
plowed her car off the road into a tree and killed passengers (who were not
her kin). She was charged (I forgot with what), and her defense argued the
accelerator was "drive by wire" and hence obviously at fault. The
prosecution brought up her unstable mood (typical suburban middle-aged
housewife, IMO), perscription of anti-depresants, and her apparrent suicide
ideation as motivation to crash the car into a tree, with no regard for the
safety of her other passengers.
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| User: "Brian Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 08:58:08 PM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:32:26 -0700, L Sternn <lincolnfs@hm.net> wrote:
Who cares - I've never seen a tire that you had to take the hubcap off
to get to the valve stem.
Well, while you didn't have to take the hubcap off, I did have a set
of wire wheels a long time ago where it was absolutely impossible to
get to the 1" valve stems. It just couldn't be done. A few dollars
at the auto part store and some valve extenders did the job easily
though.
.
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| User: "Ed Medlin" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
09 Apr 2005 09:21:53 AM |
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"Brian Henderson" <BrianL.Henderson@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:2fde51tltur8sq5jo8lc5nc53v0l7kvnqi@4ax.com...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:32:26 -0700, L Sternn <lincolnfs@hm.net> wrote:
Who cares - I've never seen a tire that you had to take the hubcap off
to get to the valve stem.
Well, while you didn't have to take the hubcap off, I did have a set
of wire wheels a long time ago where it was absolutely impossible to
get to the 1" valve stems. It just couldn't be done. A few dollars
at the auto part store and some valve extenders did the job easily
though.
And all tire shops I have been to have several sizes of valve stems. If
they put short ones on when longer ones are needed make them change the
suckers. As far as tire telemetry goes, it is happening already. Many new
cars already have tire pressure readouts on the dashes and some high-end
luxury and sports cars actually adjust the tire pressure automatically with
a small compressor that runs off the serpentine belt. It is actually old
technology that has come from auto racing, mainly F1 from a few years ago. I
am not sure if they still use the technology with the newer rules, but some
prototype racing bodies still do. I have no idea how that works on a
spinning tire, but it is done.
Most drivers have no idea of the heat that can build up while driving
70mph on the freeway on underinflated tires. And even more don't have a clue
as to how to handle a vehicle when you do have a blowout.
Ed
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| User: "Bill 2" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 02:26:46 PM |
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"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112980636.000769.186870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Magnulus wrote:
"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" <xeton2001@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:1112938792.095998.67950@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Yeah - this expensive frill might save a handful of lives a year,
It will probably save alot of lives. The sad truth is that many
of these
people otherwise would have gotten a Darwin Award, because they were
too
lazy or stupid to check the air in their tires themselves.
I think part of the reason is those 1" valve stems tire shops use.
Makes it impossible to get the cap off and check the pressure unless
you remove the hub cap. I bought a couple tars last week and that's
what they put on. I had some valve stem extenders laying around and put
them on but i think a lot of people don't know you can do that.
Why the ***** would you waste money buying used pep boy tars? I just keep
putting tar in a can in my tars when they get a leak.
I can also get at my valve stem if I had wheel covers, but those are just a
useless luxury that car companies add on to jack up the price.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 02:35:49 PM |
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Tars? Are you retarded? That's *not* a rhetorical question.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
10 Apr 2005 08:03:35 PM |
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Automakers will begin using the technology in September. The National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the upgrade will cost
manufacturers between $48.44 and $69.89 per vehicle.
(snip)
NHTSA estimates that 120 lives a year will be saved when all new
vehicles are equipped with the systems.
I would think these things would pay for themselves. They would
prevent early tire wear.
.
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| User: "Matthew Russotto" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
11 Apr 2005 01:28:08 PM |
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In article <1113181415.376136.78670@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
kilowatt@charter.net <kilowatt@charter.net> wrote:
Automakers will begin using the technology in September. The National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates the upgrade will cost
manufacturers between $48.44 and $69.89 per vehicle.
(snip)
NHTSA estimates that 120 lives a year will be saved when all new
vehicles are equipped with the systems.
I would think these things would pay for themselves. They would
prevent early tire wear.
Probably offset by the cost of sensor failure.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
.
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| User: "John S." |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 12:01:07 PM |
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A $10.00 pressure guage can extend the life of tires by twice and
running at the correct pressure on the high side allows for a steadier
handling car. Like most of us I commute in heavy traffic and am amazed
at the number of cars with visibly low tire pressure. I can feel the
difference one low tire makes...but apparently many people apparently
can't.
If it is going to be a requirement, I would like to have the setting
adjustable. A minimum safe pressure of say 28 psi, but adjustable
upward for those of us who run well beyond the minimum for safety.
.
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 03:52:32 PM |
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"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com> wrote in message
news:1112979667.572201.252080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
A $10.00 pressure guage can extend the life of tires by twice and
running at the correct pressure on the high side allows for a steadier
handling car. Like most of us I commute in heavy traffic and am amazed
at the number of cars with visibly low tire pressure.
Average age of cars in the US is now over 8 years. That means alot of
folks are driving on older cars than that- cars from the 80's and early
90's. I'm guessing a large chunk of these cars are pure junk, on their last
legs and in bad need of work.
I'm always amused when people bemoan pollution from new cars. The
majority of pollution and gas sucking is comming from folks who do not
mantain their vehicles and who do not check their tires for pressure. We
could save alot of imports on oil and cut down on emissions simply by
forcing these idiots to either mantain their car or scrap them. Until we
get the junkers cleaned up, or off the road, no number of ULEV vehicles sold
is going to matter squat, since an out-of-tune car or a car with a faulty
exhaust system is emitting hundreds of times the pollution of a new
SUV/truck or diesel.
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| User: "Sherman Cahal" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 12:50:39 PM |
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John S. wrote:
A $10.00 pressure guage can extend the life of tires by twice and
running at the correct pressure on the high side allows for a
steadier
handling car. Like most of us I commute in heavy traffic and am
amazed
at the number of cars with visibly low tire pressure. I can feel the
difference one low tire makes...but apparently many people apparently
can't.
I normally don't respond to Judy, but...
Don't you find it ironic that Ford got sued by some whiney SUV drivers
a few years ago due to tire blowouts? The real reason behind the tire
blowouts were because of LOW tire pressures! The owners failed to keep
their vehicles in a safe driving condition -- and it was their own
fault their tires blew out -- not Ford's.
If it is going to be a requirement, I would like to have the setting
adjustable. A minimum safe pressure of say 28 psi, but adjustable
upward for those of us who run well beyond the minimum for safety.
Mine requires 32 PSI; I check mine weekly to ensure that I do not have
a tire blowout at high speeds. I have lately been checking it more
often about 3 times a week because of a nail in my sidewall that
thankfully is not deflating my right driver tire. It would be expensive
to replace the tire as they ran about $250 each.
.
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| User: "John S." |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
11 Apr 2005 12:15:42 PM |
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Oh, yeah, the lawsuits for the c onsequences of poor driving habits are
legend. Some driver sued Porsche a few years back because they were
not told the 911 was a sophisticated sportscar that took some skills to
drive fast. Apparently this person was playing Gran Prix driver on a
curve and couldn't control the car. I guess they figured you didn't
need to know how to drive...just how start the engine and shift gears
and the car would do the rest.
It's so easy to save a lot of money money by taking care of tires - and
drive safer in the process. I run my Volvo with 235/45x17's at 35 psi
and get great tire milage and handling.
.
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| User: "L Sternn" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 06:34:01 PM |
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On 8 Apr 2005 10:50:39 -0700, "Sherman Cahal" <sherman@cahaltech.com>
wrote:
John S. wrote:
A $10.00 pressure guage can extend the life of tires by twice and
running at the correct pressure on the high side allows for a
steadier
handling car. Like most of us I commute in heavy traffic and am
amazed
at the number of cars with visibly low tire pressure. I can feel the
difference one low tire makes...but apparently many people apparently
can't.
I normally don't respond to Judy, but...
Don't you find it ironic that Ford got sued by some whiney SUV drivers
a few years ago due to tire blowouts? The real reason behind the tire
blowouts were because of LOW tire pressures! The owners failed to keep
their vehicles in a safe driving condition -- and it was their own
fault their tires blew out -- not Ford's.
I'm just going off of memory here (But I'm not worried, because I know
I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), but wasn't part of the complaint that
Ford recommended a lower tire pressure than Firestone?
If it is going to be a requirement, I would like to have the setting
adjustable. A minimum safe pressure of say 28 psi, but adjustable
upward for those of us who run well beyond the minimum for safety.
Mine requires 32 PSI; I check mine weekly to ensure that I do not have
a tire blowout at high speeds. I have lately been checking it more
often about 3 times a week because of a nail in my sidewall that
thankfully is not deflating my right driver tire. It would be expensive
to replace the tire as they ran about $250 each.
.
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 11:14:23 PM |
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"L Sternn" <lincolnfs@hm.net> wrote in message
news:e55e51pvsrnqa5iljek3f5jmhbbbi031np@4ax.com...
I'm just going off of memory here (But I'm not worried, because I know
I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), but wasn't part of the complaint that
Ford recommended a lower tire pressure than Firestone?
Yes. Ford wanted a more car like handling without having to alter their
suspension. Truck/SUV's are both naturally more bouncy and soft at the
same time- they were designed to haul loads, after all.
IMO, Firestone was not at fault. The blame lies solely with Ford for
trying to turn a pigs ear into a purse. Firestone does make good tires,
they just were never meant to be underinflated.
Mine requires 32 PSI; I check mine weekly to ensure that I do not have
a tire blowout at high speeds. I have lately been checking it more
often about 3 times a week because of a nail in my sidewall that
thankfully is not deflating my right driver tire. It would be expensive
to replace the tire as they ran about $250 each.
Ouch... I think Michelin Energy tires run around 125 each. They were with
my car when I bought it, but if I have to do it over again, I'll get
Bridgestone Potenzas, they are only 50 dollars each.
.
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| User: "Big Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
09 Apr 2005 10:49:49 AM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:34:01 -0700, L Sternn <lincolnfs@hm.net> wrote:
On 8 Apr 2005 10:50:39 -0700, "Sherman Cahal" <sherman@cahaltech.com>
wrote:
John S. wrote:
A $10.00 pressure guage can extend the life of tires by twice and
running at the correct pressure on the high side allows for a
steadier
handling car. Like most of us I commute in heavy traffic and am
amazed
at the number of cars with visibly low tire pressure. I can feel the
difference one low tire makes...but apparently many people apparently
can't.
I normally don't respond to Judy, but...
Don't you find it ironic that Ford got sued by some whiney SUV drivers
a few years ago due to tire blowouts? The real reason behind the tire
blowouts were because of LOW tire pressures! The owners failed to keep
their vehicles in a safe driving condition -- and it was their own
fault their tires blew out -- not Ford's.
I'm just going off of memory here (But I'm not worried, because I know
I'll be corrected if I'm wrong), but wasn't part of the complaint that
Ford recommended a lower tire pressure than Firestone?
No, Firestone didn't make a recommendation until *after* their tires
started self-destructing.
What happened was that Ford lowered the recommended pressure to solve
a handling problem - not at all unusual in the industry.
Firestone had no problem with the recommended pressure, and warranted
that their tires would handle it.
Then Firestone had a problem at one of their factories, and
distributed faulty tires.
Firestone decided to stonewall, and blame Ford, which didn't stick
because the problem was Firestone's, but the news media was quick to
pick up on the accusations against Ford, and not so quick to follow up
on Firestone's problems.
(Ford's pockets are deeper than Firestone's.)
As for the deaths in the Explorers, both Firestone and the drivers
shared the actual responsibility. Firestone, because they distributed
faulty tires, and the drivers because they didn't know who to handle a
catastrophic tire failure (to be fair, it doesn't happen very often,
and it's accompanied by a huge sound and fury), as well as the fact
that the vast majority of fatalities were of unrestrained people (one
was in the back cargo compartment!).
End result was that Ford got an (undeserved, IMO) reputation for doing
the wrong thing, the news media totally screwed up, and many people
still don't realize that Firestone caused the entire problem, by not
monitoring their people closely enough (the problem was known by line
personnel before the tires got out of the factory, but local managers
decided the problem wasn't serious enough to dump the tires) and by
stonewalling, and lying by saying they had problems with Ford's
pressure recommendations (they had so little problems that they
warrented the tires for that pressure, and certainly sold them to
Ford), even after they knew for an absolute fact their tires were the
problem.
While Firestone was stonewalling, Ford stepped up and replaced all
affected tires at their own cost.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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| User: "Magnulus" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
09 Apr 2005 09:54:17 PM |
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"Big Bill" <bill@pipping.com> wrote in message
news:7mtf51t9mdeitjtfndoi0l6dvqebe0l8rk@4ax.com...
What happened was that Ford lowered the recommended pressure to solve
a handling problem - not at all unusual in the industry.
They knew they were dealing with an unsafe vehicle, you cannot obscure
that. They wanted an SUV that could get better ratings in rollover tests,
and they did that by altering the tire inflation to dangerously low levels,
considering the weight they were expected to carry, and the speeds they had
to travel (if you are going 85 mph on a set of tires it is alot more
demanding than 55 mph... which is one reason tires that are sold
internationally usually have high speed ratings, for instance, for driving
on the Autobahn). The irony of course was that they ultimately made their
vehicle more vulnerable to catastrophic rollovers.
A sensible approach, IMO, would have been to redesign the SUV for a lower
ride height. But that would have cost $$$.
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| User: "Big Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
10 Apr 2005 11:31:39 AM |
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On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:54:17 -0400, "Magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
"Big Bill" <bill@pipping.com> wrote in message
news:7mtf51t9mdeitjtfndoi0l6dvqebe0l8rk@4ax.com...
What happened was that Ford lowered the recommended pressure to solve
a handling problem - not at all unusual in the industry.
They knew they were dealing with an unsafe vehicle, you cannot obscure
that. They wanted an SUV that could get better ratings in rollover tests,
and they did that by altering the tire inflation to dangerously low levels,
considering the weight they were expected to carry, and the speeds they had
to travel (if you are going 85 mph on a set of tires it is alot more
demanding than 55 mph... which is one reason tires that are sold
internationally usually have high speed ratings, for instance, for driving
on the Autobahn). The irony of course was that they ultimately made their
vehicle more vulnerable to catastrophic rollovers.
Absolutely wrong.
The proof is that you can check the figures: the only safer mid-size
SUV was from Jeep; all the others are worse, some much worse, on
rollover.
The fact remains that he Explorer was, and is, one of the safer
mid-size SUVs, even concerning rollover.
The actual reason Ford lowered pressures was to help pass *one*
certain test, the j-turn, a maneuver almost never done except by
trained drivers, and performed many more times in movies than on the
road. The lower pressure allowed the rear tires to slip better, which
*improves* rollover stability.
A sensible approach, IMO, would have been to redesign the SUV for a lower
ride height. But that would have cost $$$.
More sensible, from the standpoint of those who don't care about
running a company, costs, profitability,and would like to place their
idea of how things should be done before even getting things done.
Driving companies out of business in an attempt to get supposedly
better products means no products.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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| User: "Timothy J. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
10 Apr 2005 12:15:15 AM |
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In article <7mtf51t9mdeitjtfndoi0l6dvqebe0l8rk@4ax.com>,
Big Bill <bill@pipping.com> wrote:
What happened was that Ford lowered the recommended pressure to solve
a handling problem - not at all unusual in the industry.
Firestone had no problem with the recommended pressure, and warranted
that their tires would handle it.
But wasn't the recommended pressure low enough to not have much margin
of safety against underinflation, particularly with a very low spec tire
(temperature rating of C, the minimum by government requirements; most
tires sold in the US for cars and light trucks these days have temperature
ratings of A or B)? So while the tires may have been safe at the
recommended pressure, could even a slight neglect in allowing them to
be underinflated put them in the danger zone?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
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| User: "Big Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
10 Apr 2005 11:40:36 AM |
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 05:15:15 GMT, (Timothy J. Lee)
wrote:
In article <7mtf51t9mdeitjtfndoi0l6dvqebe0l8rk@4ax.com>,
Big Bill <bill@pipping.com> wrote:
What happened was that Ford lowered the recommended pressure to solve
a handling problem - not at all unusual in the industry.
Firestone had no problem with the recommended pressure, and warranted
that their tires would handle it.
But wasn't the recommended pressure low enough to not have much margin
of safety against underinflation, particularly with a very low spec tire
(temperature rating of C, the minimum by government requirements; most
tires sold in the US for cars and light trucks these days have temperature
ratings of A or B)? So while the tires may have been safe at the
recommended pressure, could even a slight neglect in allowing them to
be underinflated put them in the danger zone?
Nope. Firestone and Ford are well aware of such things as
underinflation problems, and Firestone warranted the tires to be safe
in that application.
To think that a tire manufacturer isn't able to understand such things
as underinflation is, well, I'm not trying to insult, so shall we just
say it isn't thinking things through? The *known* problem wasn't
underinflation, it was a problem in the manufacturing procedure, and
Firestone's putting deffective tires into the supply line.
There is no evidence that underinflation even contributed to the
problem; it is speculated that since the problem showed up mostly in
hot areas, that *temperature* played a part, but that temp problem
only accellerated the faulty tires' failure.
The problem remains the fact that Firestone made faulty tires, and,
after being told of the problem by line personnel, distributed the
tires anyway.
Trying to put the blame on Ford is interesting, and certainly feels
good to a lot of people, but the Firestone tires were the problem.
BTW, all aoth manufacturere make compromises. Some are better than
others, but such compromises are almost always worst than what would
be ideal. But, we can't afford to buy the ideal car. And auto makers
can't afford to build the ideal car; if they tried, they'd go out of
business.
--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"
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| User: "Dick Boyd" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 02:29:34 PM |
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Sherman Cahal wrote:
John S. wrote:
A $10.00 pressure guage can extend the life of tires by twice and
running at the correct pressure on the high side allows for a
steadier
handling car. Like most of us I commute in heavy traffic and am
amazed
at the number of cars with visibly low tire pressure. I can feel
the
difference one low tire makes...but apparently many people
apparently
can't.
I normally don't respond to Judy, but...
Don't you find it ironic that Ford got sued by some whiney SUV
drivers
a few years ago due to tire blowouts? The real reason behind the tire
blowouts were because of LOW tire pressures! The owners failed to
keep
their vehicles in a safe driving condition -- and it was their own
fault their tires blew out -- not Ford's.
If it is going to be a requirement, I would like to have the
setting
adjustable. A minimum safe pressure of say 28 psi, but adjustable
upward for those of us who run well beyond the minimum for safety.
Mine requires 32 PSI; I check mine weekly to ensure that I do not
have
a tire blowout at high speeds. I have lately been checking it more
often about 3 times a week because of a nail in my sidewall that
thankfully is not deflating my right driver tire. It would be
expensive
to replace the tire as they ran about $250 each.
Trailer tires, as on horse trailers and ski-boats seem to be a greater
problem in my neck of the woods. Road alligators all seem to come from
those two types of trailers.
Maintaining correct rear tire pressures to prevent oversteer and driver
induced oscillations is very important.
Installing a gizmo to check this for the driver is counter productive.
The gizmo gives the impression that the vehicle is safe. Similar to air
bags compared to seat belts. If the driver has to do something to
ensure safety, the mind set is established that cars are inherently
dangerous. As more functions get automated, the drivers stop thinking.
One result is more crashes rather than fewer. Another result is that
the crashes are more expensive, both in lives and property damage.
In a related discussion, NHTSA has developed a "hang tag" for 15
passenger vans. One item on the tag is checking tire pressure. 15
passenger vans are the safest passenger vehicle on the road, in my
opinion. The instructions given on the tag for driving back onto the
roadway if the van goes off the shoulder are dangerous. Stop the van
before trying to drive back onto the roadway.
Public Citizen (Ralph Nader and Joan Claybrook) have decided that 15
passenger vans are unsafe and should have dual rear wheels. Two more
tires for a careless driver to ignore.
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| User: "Arif Khokar" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 02:10:21 PM |
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Sherman Cahal wrote:
[tires]
It would be expensive
to replace the tire as they ran about $250 each.
Sounds like you were really ripped off. The 225/45 ZR17 tires for my
car only cost about $100 each.
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| User: "Sherman Cahal" |
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| Title: Re: Tire pressure warning system for cars MANDATORY by 2008 |
08 Apr 2005 02:20:24 PM |
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Arif Khokar wrote:
Sherman Cahal wrote:
[tires]
It would be expensive
to replace the tire as they ran about $250 each.
Sounds like you were really ripped off. The 225/45 ZR17 tires for my
car only cost about $100 each.
They are not your run-of-the-mill Sears brand tires. I purchased them
at a known performance shop just outside of Lexington. This was during
a time when I had planned on tuning my vehicle, but due to other
factors as of late, I will be purchasing a new one this winter.
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