Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 23 Oct 2005 08:15:45 PM
Object: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups
Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military
training of left-wing groups
India Daily ^ | October 23 2005 | Sonia Joshi
Oil rich Venezuela scared of the same fate as Iraq, is planning some
extreme measures to confront United States in case it is attacked.
Venezuela is fast spreading arms, money and military training tactics
to left-wing groups in Ecuador and six other Latin American countries.
According to some international think tanks, the plan is to rage
insurgency from outside Venezuela in case Venezuela is attacked and
occupied.
According to media sources, left-wing groups in Ecuador and six other
Latin American countries have received training in urban guerrilla war
tactics from Venezuela this year, The Miami Herald reported Oct. 22,
citing an Ecuadorian military intelligence report. While the report
does not directly link Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to the
training, it does identify two Caracas installations -- one belonging
to the Venezuelan army and the other to the Ministry of Defense --
where the training took place. In the past, Caracas has denied it
supports groups or organizations that use violence to achieve
political ends.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.

User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups 23 Oct 2005 09:01:12 PM

Caracas has denied it supports groups or organizations that use violence to achieve

political ends.
Its unbelievable that in this day and age anyone would seriously think
of using violence to attain political ends (other that us of course).
The nerve, the gall, how dare they !!!!
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups 23 Oct 2005 11:08:19 PM
On 23 Oct 2005 19:01:12 -0700, "Saggy" <nammalfmilf@aol.com> wrote:

Caracas has denied it supports groups or organizations that use violence to achieve

political ends.

Its unbelievable that in this day and age anyone would seriously think
of using violence to attain political ends (other that us of course).
The nerve, the gall, how dare they !!!!

It seems to me that arming leftist political groups in neighboring
countries might make your neighbors angry. The people in Venezuela are
starving. If Chaves were a man of peace he would feed his folks.
--
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy." -- John Updike
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Saggy"

Title: Re: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups 23 Oct 2005 11:56:48 PM

.If Chaves were a man of peace he would feed his folks.

How true. Today, only the US truly loves peace, and.... therefore....
should attack.
Unfortunately, in the US, Orwell has been trumped.
.



User: "Jeffrey Turner"

Title: Re: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with militarytraining of left-wing groups 24 Oct 2005 04:45:01 PM
Captain Compassion wrote:

Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military
training of left-wing groups
India Daily ^ | October 23 2005 | Sonia Joshi

Oil rich Venezuela scared of the same fate as Iraq, is planning some
extreme measures to confront United States in case it is attacked.
Venezuela is fast spreading arms, money and military training tactics
to left-wing groups in Ecuador and six other Latin American countries.
According to some international think tanks, the plan is to rage
insurgency from outside Venezuela in case Venezuela is attacked and
occupied.

According to media sources, left-wing groups in Ecuador and six other
Latin American countries have received training in urban guerrilla war
tactics from Venezuela this year, The Miami Herald reported Oct. 22,
citing an Ecuadorian military intelligence report. While the report
does not directly link Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to the
training, it does identify two Caracas installations -- one belonging
to the Venezuelan army and the other to the Ministry of Defense --
where the training took place. In the past, Caracas has denied it
supports groups or organizations that use violence to achieve
political ends.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/12972069.htm
Posted on Sun, Oct. 23, 2005
HERALD EXCLUSIVE
Report alleges rebels trained in Venezuela
Ecuadorean and other Latin American leftists received guerrilla
training in Caracas, an intelligence report shows.
BY STEVEN DUDLEY
sdudley@herald.com
QUITO - An Ecuadorean military intelligence report alleges that
leftists from Ecuador and seven other Latin American nations
received guerrilla training in Venezuela this year from backers
of President Hugo Chávez.
The report does not link Chávez personally to the training in
explosives, weapons and urban guerrilla tactics. But it notes
that part of the training took place in two Caracas military
bases, one used by the army reserves and another that houses the
Defense Ministry.
And in a concluding section, it says that backers of the
Venezuelan president, ``with covert support from the government
of Hugo Chávez . . . have strengthened incipient subversive
movements.''
The Herald repeatedly sought the reaction of Venezuelan Vice
President José Vicente Rangel, who most often speaks for the
government, and Gen. Julio Quintero Viloria, commander of the
reserves. Neither responded.
However, after the Ecuadorean newspaper El Comercio broke the
story earlier this month, the Venezuelan Embassy here issued a
statement denying the story and saying Chávez ''is against all
groups or organizations that support the use of violence.'' The
president himself later dismissed the newspaper's story as part
of a U.S. government propaganda campaign against him.
If the allegations are proved to be true, however, they would
bolster a rash of recent U.S. complaints that Chávez's
self-proclaimed socialist and revolutionary government has
become a destabilizing factor around Latin America.
VENEZUELAN ROLE
In its story, El Comercio broadly cited military intelligence
documents but gave few details about the alleged Venezuelan
link.
The Herald independently obtained a copy of an intelligence
report that focuses on the Venezuelan link.
The report's key assertion of guerrilla training could not be
verified independently by The Herald. But a senior civilian
government official here with access to intelligence information
verified the existence of the report and described its contents
as ''undeniable.'' Several military intelligence personnel here
also told The Herald that the report was indeed the work of
their agency.
U.S. intelligence officials are known to be aware of the report
and to believe that its allegations are true.
Ecuador's intelligence agencies are considered relatively
reliable because they had Israeli and U.S. training during a
successful drive in the late 1980s to break up a leftist
guerrilla group, according to a U.S. security consultant, who
asked for anonymity because he often works here.
CONTACTS DISCUSSED
El Comercio's Oct. 2 story quoted a spokesman for the previously
unknown Alfarist Liberation Army, or ELA, an underground leftist
group, as stating that members had indeed traveled to Venezuela.
When asked if it was for military training, the spokesman was
quoted as responding: ``In our contacts, there are exchanges of
experiences, methods and mechanisms. And in fact one passes
through those experiences.''
But in a later interview with El Comercio, the spokesman, who
used only the nom de guerre Sebastián Sánchez, issued a
qualified denial. ''We've never received logistical or financial
support from the Chávez government,'' he said, not ruling out
support from Chávez's supporters. The Herald could not reach him
or other ELA members for comment.
Although the report does not implicate Chávez personally in the
guerrilla training, it argues that his leftist ideology is
allowing kindred Latin American groups to go to Venezuela and
``take advantage of the space and facilities that the government
.. . . provides.''
''The Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement created by the
Venezuelan Republic,'' the report adds, ``is formalizing its
process of consolidation in Latin America, taking advantage of
the revival of the leftist political parties and popular
movements, with which . . . they are attempting to organize
paramilitary political forces that reach power.''
Chávez was democratically elected in 1998 on a promise to break
with Venezuela's historically corrupt and elitist politics and
launch a peaceful revolution on behalf of the country's poor
majority.
Since then, he has poured billions of dollars into health and
education programs, forged a tight alliance with Cuba, and
increased his country's economic ties to nations throughout
Latin America.
After handily winning a recall referendum last year, he declared
himself a socialist and stepped up a campaign to create a Latin
Americanwide bloc that opposes U.S. policy, which Chávez says
has only caused poverty. But he also became the target of
increasing U.S. complaints that he has been using the windfall
profits from high oil prices to support radical leftists in
neighboring countries.
OFFERS FROM CHAVEZ
Ecuadorean President Alfredo Palacio's government has downplayed
El Comercio's stories. Chávez has offered to buy Ecuadorean
bonds, provide this country with oil and build a refinery here
-- and the leak of the intelligence report might indicate some
opposition to the relationship with Chávez.
The report obtained by The Herald does not identify whether the
information it contains came from a defector, an infiltrator or
another source.
But it tells a detailed story of subversion, outlining a
four-week training course in Venezuela for 20 unidentified
persons -- three from the ELA and 17 from Peru, Bolivia, Chile,
Argentina, the Dominican Republic, Colombia and Venezuela.
Except for Colombia, none of those countries are known to have
guerrilla movements.
RESERVE UNIT'S BASE
Training started April 16 in the base of the army's Queseras del
Medio reserve battalion in the 23 de Enero neighborhood of
Caracas, the report states.
A reserve battalion by that name does exist in that
neighborhood.
The initial trainers are identified as an army sergeant major
and Juan Contreras, the top leader of the pro-Chávez Simón
Bolívar Coordinator. The sergeant could not be located, but The
Herald spoke with the well-known Contreras.
''The training as described never took place, and I don't know
anyone from that movement [the ELA],'' he said.
``As far as I know, no one here is doing anything like that --
it strikes me as crazy. We [the Coordinator] are involved in
public activities, including training with the reserves, but
nothing more than that.''
The Coordinator was founded in 1993 by former members of leftist
guerrilla groups from the 1960s and '70s, but says its
activities today are centered on government-financed social work
with the poor that is aimed at boosting ``popular power.''
The Ecuadorean intelligence report says that the Ecuadorean
trainees, alongside pro-Chávez Venezuelan militia members, also
took target practice at Fort Tiuna, a sprawling Caracas base
that is home to the Defense Ministry and key military units.
One member of Spain's ETA, the violent Basque separatist group,
trained the group to fire weapons, the report adds, without
specifying whether that training occurred in Fort Tiuna. Several
ETA members are known to live in Caracas under a safe-haven
agreement between previous Spanish and Venezuelan governments.
On April 24, the report states, Contreras blindfolded the three
ELA members, put them in a car and took them to an unidentified
rural spot in the western state of Táchira, where the 17 other
''delegates from subversive organizations'' had gathered for
training.
There, four members of Peru's Túpac Amaru Revolutionary
Movement, a leftist urban guerrilla group known by its Spanish
acronym MRTA, trained the group in security, recruiting,
intelligence-gathering, urban guerrilla tactics and the use of
weapons, the report continues.
The list of possible targets discussed includes U.S. military
bases and embassies as well as refineries, electrical towers and
banks.
The report states that MRTA members also showed the students
instruction videos featuring al Qaeda attacks on unidentified
military bases, embassies and airplanes, and gave additional
lessons afterward.
Trainees, the report says, also watched videos about bank
robberies -- a traditional way for Latin American guerrillas to
finance their activities.
On May 8, the report states, a man who identified himself only
by the nom de guerre Antonio began to give the group
instructions on explosives.
And the next day, the students allegedly practiced with dynamite
and TNT and learned how to make hand grenades from metal pipes.
PERUVIAN INCIDENT
The report says the Peruvian trainers are wanted for
participating in MRTA's holding of 72 hostages for 126 days at
the Japanese Embassy in Lima in 1997.
All 14 hostage-takers were killed in a government raid, and the
group has had little presence in its homeland since.
One top Peruvian security official told The Herald he did not
know of any MRTA members living in Caracas.
Some MRTA and ELA members met after the course and talked about
carrying out a kidnapping together in Ecuador, the report adds--
presumably to raise funds from the ransom. It is not known
whether the two groups in fact carried out any joint actions.
The report concludes by stating that the Ecuadorean armed forces
should direct all of their attention toward thwarting this
allegedly nascent regionwide insurgency.
''It constitutes a threat to the security and stability of the
people,'' the report says.
--
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation. War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman
.
User: "8ackgr0und N015e"

Title: Re: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups 24 Oct 2005 05:11:33 PM
Of course this plant is not related in any way to the fact that
Venezuela emptied all its reserve bank accounts in the US and moved
them to Europe a few weeks ago, right?
Jeffrey Turner wrote:

Captain Compassion wrote:

Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military
training of left-wing groups
India Daily ^ | October 23 2005 | Sonia Joshi

Oil rich Venezuela scared of the same fate as Iraq, is planning some
extreme measures to confront United States in case it is attacked.
Venezuela is fast spreading arms, money and military training tactics
to left-wing groups in Ecuador and six other Latin American countries.
According to some international think tanks, the plan is to rage

Gee I wonder which ones... AEI? Heritage?

insurgency from outside Venezuela in case Venezuela is attacked and
occupied.

According to media sources, left-wing groups in Ecuador and six other

Judith Miller is working the South American beat now?

Latin American countries have received training in urban guerrilla war
tactics from Venezuela this year, The Miami Herald reported Oct. 22,
citing an Ecuadorian military intelligence report. While the report
does not directly link Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to the
training, it does identify two Caracas installations -- one belonging
to the Venezuelan army and the other to the Ministry of Defense --
where the training took place. In the past, Caracas has denied it
supports groups or organizations that use violence to achieve
political ends.


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/12972069.htm

Posted on Sun, Oct. 23, 2005

HERALD EXCLUSIVE

Report alleges rebels trained in Venezuela

Ecuadorean and other Latin American leftists received guerrilla
training in Caracas, an intelligence report shows.

BY STEVEN DUDLEY

sdudley@herald.com

QUITO - An Ecuadorean military intelligence report alleges that
leftists from Ecuador and seven other Latin American nations
received guerrilla training in Venezuela this year from backers
of President Hugo Ch=E1vez.

Oh I get it... instead of "British Intelligence has learned" we are now
going with "Ecuadorean Intelligence has learned"... no one will
recognize the similarities... besides translating from Spanish is soooo
difficult it will be months before they realize what happened, right
Amigo?


The report does not link Ch=E1vez personally to the training in
explosives, weapons and urban guerrilla tactics.

Gee... what's wrong? No one has photoshop?

But it notes
that part of the training took place in two Caracas military
bases, one used by the army reserves and another that houses the
Defense Ministry.

And in a concluding section, it says that backers of the
Venezuelan president, ``with covert support from the government
of Hugo Ch=E1vez . . . have strengthened incipient subversive
movements.''

The Herald repeatedly sought the reaction of Venezuelan Vice
President Jos=E9 Vicente Rangel, who most often speaks for the
government, and Gen. Julio Quintero Viloria, commander of the
reserves. Neither responded.

However, after the Ecuadorean newspaper El Comercio broke the
story earlier this month, the Venezuelan Embassy here issued a
statement denying the story and saying Ch=E1vez ''is against all
groups or organizations that support the use of violence.'' The
president himself later dismissed the newspaper's story as part
of a U.S. government propaganda campaign against him.

If the allegations are proved to be true, however, they would
bolster a rash of recent U.S. complaints that Ch=E1vez's
self-proclaimed socialist and revolutionary government has
become a destabilizing factor around Latin America.

VENEZUELAN ROLE

In its story, El Comercio broadly cited military intelligence
documents but gave few details about the alleged Venezuelan
link.

No details? Well then it MUST be true!!!! At least they learned one
thing. If you don't give any details, no one can say you lied.


The Herald independently obtained a copy of an intelligence
report that focuses on the Venezuelan link.

But they gave few details.... intereting.

The report's key assertion of guerrilla training could not be
verified independently by The Herald. But a senior civilian

Oh so we are reporting this because we can't verify it... maybe the
brother of the author will recognize his writing style and come forward
to help with the investigation.

government official here with access to intelligence information
verified the existence of the report and described its contents
as ''undeniable.'' Several military intelligence personnel here
also told The Herald that the report was indeed the work of
their agency.

Yup... the report exists.... we wrote it.... it's undeniably our
report..... what? is it true? why ? are you a communist?


U.S. intelligence officials are known to be aware of the report
and to believe that its allegations are true.

"officials" are "known to be aware" and "believe" the allegations....
well that seals it for me....


Ecuador's intelligence agencies are considered relatively
reliable because they had Israeli and U.S. training during a

Israeli training...makes for enhanced credibility? Because Israeli
intelligence never lies right?

successful drive in the late 1980s to break up a leftist
guerrilla group, according to a U.S. security consultant, who
asked for anonymity because he often works here.

Wait a sec. You have a "U.S. security consultant" who works for the
newspaper? Is her name Judy Miller?


CONTACTS DISCUSSED

El Comercio's Oct. 2 story quoted a spokesman for the previously
unknown Alfarist Liberation Army, or ELA, an underground leftist

A previously unknown group? How positively droll.....

group, as stating that members had indeed traveled to Venezuela.

For Carnival?

When asked if it was for military training, the spokesman was
quoted as responding: ``In our contacts, there are exchanges of
experiences, methods and mechanisms. And in fact one passes
through those experiences.''

What the ***** does that mean? In English? "one passes through those
experiences?"


But in a later interview with El Comercio, the spokesman, who
used only the nom de guerre Sebasti=E1n S=E1nchez, issued a
qualified denial. ''We've never received logistical or financial
support from the Ch=E1vez government,'' he said, not ruling out
support from Ch=E1vez's supporters. The Herald could not reach him
or other ELA members for comment.

Really? The US Embassy's phone was disconnected?


Although the report does not implicate Ch=E1vez personally in the
guerrilla training, it argues that his leftist ideology is
allowing kindred Latin American groups to go to Venezuela and
``take advantage of the space and facilities that the government
. . . provides.''

''The Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement created by the
Venezuelan Republic,'' the report adds, ``is formalizing its
process of consolidation in Latin America, taking advantage of
the revival of the leftist political parties and popular
movements, with which . . . they are attempting to organize
paramilitary political forces that reach power.''

Ch=E1vez was democratically elected in 1998 on a promise to break
with Venezuela's historically corrupt and elitist politics and
launch a peaceful revolution on behalf of the country's poor
majority.

Since then, he has poured billions of dollars into health and
education programs, forged a tight alliance with Cuba, and
increased his country's economic ties to nations throughout
Latin America.

After handily winning a recall referendum last year, he declared
himself a socialist and stepped up a campaign to create a Latin
Americanwide bloc that opposes U.S. policy, which Ch=E1vez says
has only caused poverty. But he also became the target of
increasing U.S. complaints that he has been using the windfall
profits from high oil prices to support radical leftists in
neighboring countries.

OFFERS FROM CHAVEZ

Ecuadorean President Alfredo Palacio's government has downplayed
El Comercio's stories.

MAybe because he knows its *****?

Ch=E1vez has offered to buy Ecuadorean
bonds, provide this country with oil and build a refinery here
-- and the leak of the intelligence report might indicate some
opposition to the relationship with Ch=E1vez.

The report obtained by The Herald does not identify whether the
information it contains came from a defector, an infiltrator or
another source.

You mean like a CIA plant?


But it tells a detailed story of subversion, outlining a
four-week training course in Venezuela for 20 unidentified
persons -- three from the ELA and 17 from Peru, Bolivia, Chile,
Argentina, the Dominican Republic, Colombia and Venezuela.

Whoa nelly.... you said they didn't report on the details and you
actually got a copy of this report? Yet you can't confirm anything?

Except for Colombia, none of those countries are known to have
guerrilla movements.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Finally, a little reality has to be let in....
[remainder of bs snipped]
Sheeesh.... I guess they figure invading Venezuela would be easier than
Syria, huh?
.
User: "Hugh Gibbons"

Title: Re: Venezuela getting ready to confront United States with military training of left-wing groups 24 Oct 2005 08:00:51 PM
In article <1130191893.853938.93550@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"8ackgr0und N015e" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote:


U.S. intelligence officials are known to be aware of the report
and to believe that its allegations are true.


"officials" are "known to be aware" and "believe" the allegations....
well that seals it for me....

A newspaper saying US officials are "known to believe" something means
absolutely nothing. There's no credible source cited for that
information.
.




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